Champion Points: Please Stop

Drummerx04

I often read in these forums comments such as:

• PvP is unfair because I have less CP than them! (if you can't even come close to killing or even noticably damaging another player then more CP wouldn't help you much)
• vet hardmode dungeons require too much CP, please nerf
• If only I had more CP, I could do X
• I got kicked out of group because I have low CP
• Basically any comment about CP being unbalanced or unfair or required

Champion points increase damage by a percentage. If you are a low dps player ~10k single target, then your dps will still be low with 300 more CP unless you change something in your build/rotation. And the potential damage difference between a CP 300 and a CP 561, for instance, is pretty small in the grand scheme. Maybe ~15% extra damage... unless you are attempting the hardest of hard content (for which you probably will want more experience first anyway) or leaderboard runs, CP is only an excuse for your poor performance.

Probably the most important part of CP is actually the resource management, but even with 561 CP, a max dps build will still run out of resources in probably less than 30 seconds unless properly supported by a healer.

Basically:

• People have completed vMA with < 200CP
• I've met CP 400 healers that were so on point with group buffs that my dps went up almost 10k single target.
• I've met CP 200 tanks that probably didn't need a healer to survive while keeping mob control.
• I played with CP 300 mag templars with the Maw skin pulling 30k ST dps in vet trials. Yes, really.

I have also seen max CP players:

• Dealing maybe 10k dps
• Spend most of every boss fight dead
• Attempt to heal vICP as a sorc with heavy armor unenchanted tanking sets, 20k magicka, and 1400 spell damage
• Fail to survive as the tank against bosses that quite frankly don't hit hard
• Die like a chump and hit like a wet noodle in pvp
• Always out of resources with no contingency plan

CP will come to you as you play the content, but the skill that you acquire during your journey to max CP far exceeds the value of simply having max CP.

So please just stop with this CP obsession in zone chat and the forums and take a little responsibility for your own performance.

Foxic

The other night we took a guildie through vet maw with only 180cp and he pulled his weight just fine. As long as you know what you're doing you're good to go. Cp just buffs already good players

runagate

Please dramatically increase the CP cap so we can unlock some of the more interesting passives that no one even remembers are there.

I'm currently running a magicka NB who goes into stealth ever so briefly upon killing an enemy with a heavy attack and at level 50 plan to use that to proc the Vicecanon of Venom set to test that out:

(2 items) Adds 967 Max Stamina
(3 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(4 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
(5 items) When you deal Critical Damage to an enemy from Sneak, you inject a leeching poison that deals 13760 Poison Damage over 15 seconds to them and heals you for 100% of the damage done.

Along with Archer's Mind:

(2 items) Adds 967 Max Stamina
(3 items) Adds 688 Weapon Critical
(4 items) Adds 688 Weapon Critical
(5 items) Increases your Critical Damage done by 5%. Increases your Critical Damage done by an additional 10% when attacking from Sneak or invisibility.

She also has the CP passive where when you block it procs a little damage shield. There's interesting possibilities for weird diverse builds in those trees outside the necessary ones.

Danksta

runagate wrote: »

Please dramatically increase the CP cap so we can unlock some of the more interesting passives that no one even remembers are there.

I'm currently running a magicka NB who goes into stealth ever so briefly upon killing an enemy with a heavy attack and at level 50 plan to use that to proc the Vicecanon of Venom set to test that out:

(2 items) Adds 967 Max Stamina
(3 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(4 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
(5 items) When you deal Critical Damage to an enemy from Sneak, you inject a leeching poison that deals 13760 Poison Damage over 15 seconds to them and heals you for 100% of the damage done.

Along with Archer's Mind:

(2 items) Adds 967 Max Stamina
(3 items) Adds 688 Weapon Critical
(4 items) Adds 688 Weapon Critical
(5 items) Increases your Critical Damage done by 5%. Increases your Critical Damage done by an additional 10% when attacking from Sneak or invisibility.

She also has the CP passive where when you block it procs a little damage shield. There's interesting possibilities for weird diverse builds in those trees outside the necessary ones.

You only need 360 CPs to unlock any of the CP passives, you just need to make a choice.

PS4_ZeColmeia

I'm just waiting for 240 cp in each tree.

Completely unrelated to this thread...

WalksonGraves

The more important thing is WHERE you put your cp. No fixing stupid either, saw a cp 250 dps stand in the snake aoe and heal the boss to 100% 5 times till we kicked him.

starkerealm

PS4_ZeColmeia wrote: »

I'm just waiting for 240 cp in each tree.

Completely unrelated to this thread...

I just wish they'd even off the value to a round number. Like 600. This 501/531/561 stuff just feels weird and kinda sloppy.

Danksta

starkerealm wrote: »

PS4_ZeColmeia wrote: »

I'm just waiting for 240 cp in each tree.

Completely unrelated to this thread...

I just wish they'd even off the value to a round number. Like 600. This 501/531/561 stuff just feels weird and kinda sloppy.

And I prefer that each tree gets the same maximum. Actually I'd prefer a complete revamp of the CP system or just scrap it for something better.

rhapsodious

Drummerx04 wrote: »

I often read in these forums comments such as:

• I got kicked out of group because I have low CP

Agree with the rest of your post, but to be fair, that definitely happens and it isn't necessarily the low CP person overestimating their skill/looking for a scapegoat. See all the "LF1M CP(anywhere from 300-561+) [relatively easy pledge]" in /zone. And even so, I've done DLC dungeons with CPs in the 200s, who were getting jaded because nobody would go with them.

I still kind of wish we couldn't see others' CP above 160, but alas. Those people in zone would find a different thing to measure by. I mean, they already occasionally ask for CP above cap when that's literally useless (not to mention you could have gone from 10 to 561 by grinding zombies in Alik'r...).

Rune_Relic

Drummerx04 wrote: »

I often read in these forums comments such as:

• PvP is unfair because I have less CP than them! (if you can't even come close to killing or even noticably damaging another player then more CP wouldn't help you much)
• vet hardmode dungeons require too much CP, please nerf
• If only I had more CP, I could do X
• I got kicked out of group because I have low CP
• Basically any comment about CP being unbalanced or unfair or required

Champion points increase damage by a percentage. If you are a low dps player ~10k single target, then your dps will still be low with 300 more CP unless you change something in your build/rotation. And the potential damage difference between a CP 300 and a CP 561, for instance, is pretty small in the grand scheme. Maybe ~15% extra damage... unless you are attempting the hardest of hard content (for which you probably will want more experience first anyway) or leaderboard runs, CP is only an excuse for your poor performance.

Probably the most important part of CP is actually the resource management, but even with 561 CP, a max dps build will still run out of resources in probably less than 30 seconds unless properly supported by a healer.

Basically:

• People have completed vMA with < 200CP
• I've met CP 400 healers that were so on point with group buffs that my dps went up almost 10k single target.
• I've met CP 200 tanks that probably didn't need a healer to survive while keeping mob control.
• I played with CP 300 mag templars with the Maw skin pulling 30k ST dps in vet trials. Yes, really.

I have also seen max CP players:

• Dealing maybe 10k dps
• Spend most of every boss fight dead
• Attempt to heal vICP as a sorc with heavy armor unenchanted tanking sets, 20k magicka, and 1400 spell damage
• Fail to survive as the tank against bosses that quite frankly don't hit hard
• Die like a chump and hit like a wet noodle in pvp
• Always out of resources with no contingency plan

CP will come to you as you play the content, but the skill that you acquire during your journey to max CP far exceeds the value of simply having max CP.

So please just stop with this CP obsession in zone chat and the forums and take a little responsibility for your own performance.

So if I take away all of your CP you would be just as powerful ?
You might as well get to a respec shrine and remove all your CP allocation if they are that pointless.
Of course that would never happen....because CP is so useless right ?
You wont miss all the collectively stacked passives.
You wont miss all the extra resources
Your buddies will let you group with them with open arms.

If CP offers you no benefit then why have you allotted them ?
Is it purely for aesthetic reasons ?
Can I remove your guaranteed +crit% and all the numerous other bonuses that come with it ?

So many people saying CP makes no difference are also the ones with max CP with every buff they can get their hands on.
Then moan because content is soooooo easy.

My favourite comment after stating some people remove their CP to make the content harder was that such people dont deserve a place in their group and would be kicked instantly.
Yet CP are useless.
Uhu.
No benefit whatsoever.

runagate

Danksta wrote: »

runagate wrote: »

Please dramatically increase the CP cap so we can unlock some of the more interesting passives that no one even remembers are there.

I'm currently running a magicka NB who goes into stealth ever so briefly upon killing an enemy with a heavy attack and at level 50 plan to use that to proc the Vicecanon of Venom set to test that out:

(2 items) Adds 967 Max Stamina
(3 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(4 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
(5 items) When you deal Critical Damage to an enemy from Sneak, you inject a leeching poison that deals 13760 Poison Damage over 15 seconds to them and heals you for 100% of the damage done.

Along with Archer's Mind:

(2 items) Adds 967 Max Stamina
(3 items) Adds 688 Weapon Critical
(4 items) Adds 688 Weapon Critical
(5 items) Increases your Critical Damage done by 5%. Increases your Critical Damage done by an additional 10% when attacking from Sneak or invisibility.

She also has the CP passive where when you block it procs a little damage shield. There's interesting possibilities for weird diverse builds in those trees outside the necessary ones.

You only need 360 CPs to unlock any of the CP passives, you just need to make a choice.

I'm perfectly well aware of that. But it would be more interesting to unlock more of them. Really I can't believe it's not been expanded upon and diversified. Some entire trees are quite awful. The passives, that is.

Eleusian

Every MMO forum littered with the same stuff literally. MMOs generally have long term progression other than gear. Water down the reward less people will chase achieving it and playing over a long period of time.

Really if your putting together a group of strangers to run something difficult, creating a team with a higher likelihood of success is a no brainer. Bad experiences and difficult content create this process it's learning and adapting.

Stardark

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

I often read in these forums comments such as:

• PvP is unfair because I have less CP than them! (if you can't even come close to killing or even noticably damaging another player then more CP wouldn't help you much)
• vet hardmode dungeons require too much CP, please nerf
• If only I had more CP, I could do X
• I got kicked out of group because I have low CP
• Basically any comment about CP being unbalanced or unfair or required

Champion points increase damage by a percentage. If you are a low dps player ~10k single target, then your dps will still be low with 300 more CP unless you change something in your build/rotation. And the potential damage difference between a CP 300 and a CP 561, for instance, is pretty small in the grand scheme. Maybe ~15% extra damage... unless you are attempting the hardest of hard content (for which you probably will want more experience first anyway) or leaderboard runs, CP is only an excuse for your poor performance.

Probably the most important part of CP is actually the resource management, but even with 561 CP, a max dps build will still run out of resources in probably less than 30 seconds unless properly supported by a healer.

Basically:

• People have completed vMA with < 200CP
• I've met CP 400 healers that were so on point with group buffs that my dps went up almost 10k single target.
• I've met CP 200 tanks that probably didn't need a healer to survive while keeping mob control.
• I played with CP 300 mag templars with the Maw skin pulling 30k ST dps in vet trials. Yes, really.

I have also seen max CP players:

• Dealing maybe 10k dps
• Spend most of every boss fight dead
• Attempt to heal vICP as a sorc with heavy armor unenchanted tanking sets, 20k magicka, and 1400 spell damage
• Fail to survive as the tank against bosses that quite frankly don't hit hard
• Die like a chump and hit like a wet noodle in pvp
• Always out of resources with no contingency plan

CP will come to you as you play the content, but the skill that you acquire during your journey to max CP far exceeds the value of simply having max CP.

So please just stop with this CP obsession in zone chat and the forums and take a little responsibility for your own performance.

So if I take away all of your CP you would be just as powerful ?
You might as well get to a respec shrine and remove all your CP allocation if they are that pointless.
Of course that would never happen....because CP is so useless right ?
You wont miss all the collectively stacked passives.
You wont miss all the extra resources
Your buddies will let you group with them with open arms.

If CP offers you no benefit then why have you allotted them ?
Is it purely for aesthetic reasons ?
Can I remove your guaranteed +crit% and all the numerous other bonuses that come with it ?

So many people saying CP makes no difference are also the ones with max CP with every buff they can get their hands on.
Then moan because content is soooooo easy.

My favourite comment after stating some people remove their CP to make the content harder was that such people dont deserve a place in their group and would be kicked instantly.
Yet CP are useless.
Uhu.
No benefit whatsoever.

Your grade for your reading comprehension exam is: F

On topic however you can't get rid of this. If by taking a random person I have a 50/50 chance of good or bad then I would prefer a bad person 10% better. More CP decreases your chance of finding the total noobs and increases the chance of finding people with experience.

Yes it sucks, and just levelling my tank from 14-38 in the last few days I was expecting to get kicked a lot, but pleasantly surprised I wasn't (Despite my first dungeon being ICP!) so not everyone is like this, but there is nothing anyone can do about it sadly.

Sigtric

Drummerx04 wrote: »

I often read in these forums comments such as:

• PvP is unfair because I have less CP than them! (if you can't even come close to killing or even noticably damaging another player then more CP wouldn't help you much)
• vet hardmode dungeons require too much CP, please nerf
• If only I had more CP, I could do X
• I got kicked out of group because I have low CP
• Basically any comment about CP being unbalanced or unfair or required

Champion points increase damage by a percentage. If you are a low dps player ~10k single target, then your dps will still be low with 300 more CP unless you change something in your build/rotation. And the potential damage difference between a CP 300 and a CP 561, for instance, is pretty small in the grand scheme. Maybe ~15% extra damage... unless you are attempting the hardest of hard content (for which you probably will want more experience first anyway) or leaderboard runs, CP is only an excuse for your poor performance.

Probably the most important part of CP is actually the resource management, but even with 561 CP, a max dps build will still run out of resources in probably less than 30 seconds unless properly supported by a healer.

Basically:

• People have completed vMA with < 200CP
• I've met CP 400 healers that were so on point with group buffs that my dps went up almost 10k single target.
• I've met CP 200 tanks that probably didn't need a healer to survive while keeping mob control.
• I played with CP 300 mag templars with the Maw skin pulling 30k ST dps in vet trials. Yes, really.

I have also seen max CP players:

• Dealing maybe 10k dps
• Spend most of every boss fight dead
• Attempt to heal vICP as a sorc with heavy armor unenchanted tanking sets, 20k magicka, and 1400 spell damage
• Fail to survive as the tank against bosses that quite frankly don't hit hard
• Die like a chump and hit like a wet noodle in pvp
• Always out of resources with no contingency plan

CP will come to you as you play the content, but the skill that you acquire during your journey to max CP far exceeds the value of simply having max CP.

So please just stop with this CP obsession in zone chat and the forums and take a little responsibility for your own performance.

What is this?
Logic?
NO ROOM FOR THAT HERE.

I don't know what to do with my life now.


(also good post, spot on!)

JD2013

I think there will likely be a bigger CP increase once there's a new area to justify it, rather than just grinding the old content.

*cough VVARDENFELL PLS cough*

But OP is right. Sets and skill factor into things greatly, no matter how many CP's you have.

Stamden

rhapsodious wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

I often read in these forums comments such as:

• I got kicked out of group because I have low CP

Agree with the rest of your post, but to be fair, that definitely happens and it isn't necessarily the low CP person overestimating their skill/looking for a scapegoat. See all the "LF1M CP(anywhere from 300-561+) [relatively easy pledge]" in /zone. And even so, I've done DLC dungeons with CPs in the 200s, who were getting jaded because nobody would go with them.

I still kind of wish we couldn't see others' CP above 160, but alas. Those people in zone would find a different thing to measure by. I mean, they already occasionally ask for CP above cap when that's literally useless (not to mention you could have gone from 10 to 561 by grinding zombies in Alik'r...).

This right here. For example, I am a really experienced mag DK DPS with BiS gear and do around 30k ST and impressive AoE. But they see my CP is in the 300s because I took a year long break, and all of a sudden I am not good enough to do some of the DLC vet dungeons. Meanwhile, your average 561 is doing like half that, but it's cool because you totally need that 561 group to do endgame content. It's not a big deal but people definitely judge you based off the number.

QuebraRegra

are we really back to "CPs don't matter"?

#powercreep

xeNNNNN

Drummerx04 wrote: »

I often read in these forums comments such as:

• PvP is unfair because I have less CP than them! (if you can't even come close to killing or even noticably damaging another player then more CP wouldn't help you much)
• vet hardmode dungeons require too much CP, please nerf
• If only I had more CP, I could do X
• I got kicked out of group because I have low CP
• Basically any comment about CP being unbalanced or unfair or required

Champion points increase damage by a percentage. If you are a low dps player ~10k single target, then your dps will still be low with 300 more CP unless you change something in your build/rotation. And the potential damage difference between a CP 300 and a CP 561, for instance, is pretty small in the grand scheme. Maybe ~15% extra damage... unless you are attempting the hardest of hard content (for which you probably will want more experience first anyway) or leaderboard runs, CP is only an excuse for your poor performance.

Probably the most important part of CP is actually the resource management, but even with 561 CP, a max dps build will still run out of resources in probably less than 30 seconds unless properly supported by a healer.

Basically:

• People have completed vMA with < 200CP
• I've met CP 400 healers that were so on point with group buffs that my dps went up almost 10k single target.
• I've met CP 200 tanks that probably didn't need a healer to survive while keeping mob control.
• I played with CP 300 mag templars with the Maw skin pulling 30k ST dps in vet trials. Yes, really.

I have also seen max CP players:

• Dealing maybe 10k dps
• Spend most of every boss fight dead
• Attempt to heal vICP as a sorc with heavy armor unenchanted tanking sets, 20k magicka, and 1400 spell damage
• Fail to survive as the tank against bosses that quite frankly don't hit hard
• Die like a chump and hit like a wet noodle in pvp
• Always out of resources with no contingency plan

CP will come to you as you play the content, but the skill that you acquire during your journey to max CP far exceeds the value of simply having max CP.

So please just stop with this CP obsession in zone chat and the forums and take a little responsibility for your own performance.

Finally, common sense!

I feel its been absent of late.

Doctordarkspawn

CP needs ballanced like everything else. I'd fully admit CP is much more a limit on how much your skill can accomplish, much like gear. But I dont want it gone. I just want it more usefull.

Bossdonut

Must be max cp with iron gjallarhorn and flawless emblem to group with me for this dolmen.

nimander99

I'm not sure... I'm a terrible pvp'er, but I dueled a few people yesterday and it wasn't even a contest, I mean, I never came close to death. I wish I paid attention to whether they were CP'd or not... The only character that beat me was a NB and it was over reeeeeeal quick.

MissBizz

Drummerx04 wrote: »

I often read in these forums comments such as:

• PvP is unfair because I have less CP than them! (if you can't even come close to killing or even noticably damaging another player then more CP wouldn't help you much)
• vet hardmode dungeons require too much CP, please nerf
• If only I had more CP, I could do X
• I got kicked out of group because I have low CP
• Basically any comment about CP being unbalanced or unfair or required

Champion points increase damage by a percentage. If you are a low dps player ~10k single target, then your dps will still be low with 300 more CP unless you change something in your build/rotation. And the potential damage difference between a CP 300 and a CP 561, for instance, is pretty small in the grand scheme. Maybe ~15% extra damage... unless you are attempting the hardest of hard content (for which you probably will want more experience first anyway) or leaderboard runs, CP is only an excuse for your poor performance.

Probably the most important part of CP is actually the resource management, but even with 561 CP, a max dps build will still run out of resources in probably less than 30 seconds unless properly supported by a healer.

Basically:

• People have completed vMA with < 200CP
• I've met CP 400 healers that were so on point with group buffs that my dps went up almost 10k single target.
• I've met CP 200 tanks that probably didn't need a healer to survive while keeping mob control.
• I played with CP 300 mag templars with the Maw skin pulling 30k ST dps in vet trials. Yes, really.

I have also seen max CP players:

• Dealing maybe 10k dps
• Spend most of every boss fight dead
• Attempt to heal vICP as a sorc with heavy armor unenchanted tanking sets, 20k magicka, and 1400 spell damage
• Fail to survive as the tank against bosses that quite frankly don't hit hard
• Die like a chump and hit like a wet noodle in pvp
• Always out of resources with no contingency plan

CP will come to you as you play the content, but the skill that you acquire during your journey to max CP far exceeds the value of simply having max CP.

So please just stop with this CP obsession in zone chat and the forums and take a little responsibility for your own performance.

But.. but... I can't have the treasure hunter passive AND quick harvesting passive until I get more cp...

(I'm sooo close)

Drummerx04

Rune_Relic wrote: »

So if I take away all of your CP you would be just as powerful ?
You might as well get to a respec shrine and remove all your CP allocation if they are that pointless.
Of course that would never happen....because CP is so useless right ?
You wont miss all the collectively stacked passives.
You wont miss all the extra resources
Your buddies will let you group with them with open arms.

If CP offers you no benefit then why have you allotted them ?
Is it purely for aesthetic reasons ?
Can I remove your guaranteed +crit% and all the numerous other bonuses that come with it ?

So many people saying CP makes no difference are also the ones with max CP with every buff they can get their hands on.
Then moan because content is soooooo easy.

My favourite comment after stating some people remove their CP to make the content harder was that such people dont deserve a place in their group and would be kicked instantly.
Yet CP are useless.
Uhu.
No benefit whatsoever.

No. I will be about 30% weaker if I could still wear my cp160 gear which would put me at around 22k dps single target at a maximum... which for the vet content most people will be playing is more than enough to get the job done in a reasonable amount of time.

My original post stated that CP just provides a passive damage increase and some extra resources and that is useful, however personal player ability and gear set up is a real thing and it is the single most important factor determining success.

I don't see how you can read a post reassuring people that they don't need to grind out hundreds of CP in order to be effective and enjoy the game, then I shared some impressive feats that people accomplished with fairly low CP... then you respond to it with a condescending rant effectively unrelated to anything I wrote. Welcome to the internet I suppose. Logic and reasoning are not permitted here.

And you don't go to a shrine to respect champion points. You just open the champion window and reallocate them for a flat rate of 3k gold. If you are going to publicly present yourself as an ***, at least be correct while you do it.

Drummerx04

QuebraRegra wrote: »

are we really back to "CPs don't matter"?

#powercreep

No. We are to, "Don't put quite so much stock into CP if you don't have it. You'll get CP eventually, but you can start improving your skills and build now."

It's an observation as to whether grinding zombies until you have 561 CP is a better use of your time than simply doing your daily pledges and pushing your build and rotation to maximize your damage at current level and gaining CP as a bonus.

mlstevens42_ESO

You are right in that many things that people have complained about concerning cp have more to do with build and gear and skill rather then just cp.

Some complain because they are finding it difficult to get groups because they do not have whatever cp is being touted today as requirements to go do a dungeon or what not. It is in my opinion not a good gauge and never has been a good gauge of how skilled a person is at playing the game. Still it is used as a buffer by those that have to keep the riff raff away as it were.

To those in the boat try to find a guild not all but many are more willing to give those that are guildies a shot even if they are not quite at the cp amount deemed worthy.

It is this behavior of trying to avoid the "unwashed masses" that is irritating.. happens in every game though. Usually some silly criteria that means little to nothing on how good a player actually is. There have been some groups that insist you have been through a dungeon before they will take you. I would like to know how that is supposed to work if one has never been there before. Especially if the dungeon is new. I know they all were born with all of the knowledge of how to do this brand new dungeon. That is just how ignorant the whole thing can become.

So it is not all about cp's it is more about people being obnoxious. I can understand if they need a healer and you aren't a healer not being invited and all that makes sense you see. These other added requirements just to show how elite they are not so much.

Dymence

The majority of the time, the people that complain about CP are just plain bad and in denial about it. It's just an easy scapegoat for people to escape reality.

Asardes

I've encountered many CP400+ total noobs out there, as well as very good players with ~CP250 and even a Flawless Conqueror with just over CP300. I've finished IC vet dungeons on hard mode with CP200 players who took time to understand the mechanics, and failed vet Banished Cells 2 with CP450 players who ignored the mechanics and my explanations concerning them. The only players which I've found to be really bad are the under CP100, because leveling 1-50 is very fast and it's usually achieved by doing easy overland quests, which can be completed killing mobs without using any skills. The first CP60 are gained in a couple of days because the player gets to spend up to 4.8M worth of illumination. So those players have with very little experience and very little incentive to get good gear, since it will become obsolete in a couple of days anyway due to further CP gain.

I cannot speak for myself, since I leveled my main a long time ago, when there were veteran ranks 1-16 and I started doing the daily silver pledges as soon as I hit level 45 and the gold ones as soon as I hit level 50/VR1. But now leveling is different, and CP gain much faster than before. I had CP240 by the time I hit VR16 and I hit CP501, which was the cap, within 4 months, without any grind. I played mostly group content, random dungeons with random groups. I reckon this is not typical of how most people level their chars.

TheShadowScout

Drummerx04 wrote: »

I often read in these forums comments such as:

• PvP is unfair because I have less CP than them! (if you can't even come close to killing or even noticably damaging another player then more CP wouldn't help you much)
• vet hardmode dungeons require too much CP, please nerf
• If only I had more CP, I could do X
• I got kicked out of group because I have low CP
• Basically any comment about CP being unbalanced or unfair or required

I often think stuff like:

• CP give an edge, but nothing more then that. So what does it matter if that CP-bloated guy can kill you in 4.2 blows, and you need five blows to kill him - whoever first lands that fifth blow still wins, right?
• Well, duh! The top difficulty has to be balanced for the most advanced players, otherwise there won't be stuff for them to find challenging. Don't go there until you feel ready! And if you prove unready, put in some more time getting ready!
• Then stop complaining, and start grabbing CP! its easy enough with all the catchup mechanics...
• Then fu... uhmn... forget that "Particularly Unkind Group" and go questing with some friends who are not that arsi... uhm... ashamed.
• And similar following basically any of the comments you too seem to have seen there.

In the end, complete agreement, CP are just an measure of effort spent, and of course more effort means more effect. The diminishing gains and the increased cost of earning CP makes it way less of an issue then many people whine about though - CP still matter, just not as much as, say, having a decent set of gear, or knowing to stay out of the red ground for example...

And if I have learned anything from my time playing, then that CP aren't even close to the final word in PvP effectiveness, smart and skilled players will trump mere CP collections any day, and if the whiners spent as much time grabbing CP then they spend posting on the forums, they'd all be over cap themselves by now, more likely then not...

Dymence wrote: »

The majority of the time, the people that complain about CP are just plain bad and in denial about it. It's just an easy scapegoat for people to escape reality.

Yeah, sounds about right.
Now, I know I myself am not the best player, far from it... but I never blamed lack of CP for it, even back when I myself was starting to work on mine and some grindmachines already had vastly exceeded anything a casual player like me could hope for... c'est la vie, sometimes you win, sometimes you loose. And when you loose, work on getting better yourself instead of complaining that others are.

Biro123

I'm CP300 and have solo'd 4 vet dungeons - but don't have the CP to join certain others in a group for them, lol.

To be fair though - I wouldn't be great in a group, my build isn't focussed enough on a particular role so would probably slow them down.

CP's though.. yeah, they can give an extra 15% or so flat dmg, then they can also add crit chance + dmg on top of that - and penetration. But then the cost reductions means you can afford to put more weapon/spell dmg and less mag/stam recovery in your gear - increasing your base damage even more (which the extra 15% gets a boost from).. So yeah, I think it does make quite a big difference - much more than the flat 15%.
BUT its a bigger difference at low CP's given the diminishing returns on putting more CP's into a particular skill.

Asardes

The only things that prevents soloing some dungeons is the mechanics, like standing on plates or pushing lever (ex. DF, ICP) bosses that pin you down (Bandu in FG2, Ibomez in ICP, Nerien'eth in CoH2) and challenging DPS checks (ex. flesh atronachs in VICP, crematorial guards and Planar Inhibitor in VWGT). Dungeons like FG1, BS1&2, CoH1 etc. that lack such mechanics are soloable, even on veteran hard mode, for good enough players.

the_man_of_steal

CP makes a huge difference... 20% more damage, 10% more crit, 20% more weapon and mag resistance, 20% more healing, 30% more resources, plus break free/dodge roll and other perks you get make CP virtually essential unless you are playing against a terrible player.

That being said, no reason for anyone to be unhappy about CP as it takes 2-3 weeks of serious grinding to get 300 cp which will give u plenty to do PVE and enough to see if your build stays competitive in PVP.