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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861

Getting kicked out of random normal dungeon with no penalty is getting ridiculous

daedalusAI
daedalusAI
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Just queued for my daily random dungeon on my lvl 27 dk healer.
Got put into an ongoing city of ash II group.

Not even 1 second after I've loaded into the dungeon they're like "oh it's a dk healer" and "oh look only lvl 27" and I got kicked out not even 10 seconds later.
They were all high cp and it seems they did wipe on a boss multiple times because on of them said something like "lets try with a new healer and if it doesn't work kick me for low dps" when the group was formed.

Now I'm forced to idle around while waiting for the 15min dungeon finder cooldown to finish before queuing again.

You implement a random dungeon finder with no "protection" from being kicked immediately without any reason and yet you force the person who was kicked to wait the whole 15min for him to queue again.

I'm getting more and more annoyed by this.
  • PS4_ZeColmeia
    PS4_ZeColmeia
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    /signed If you are kicked within 2 minutes of entering, the group is disbanded, or you haven't even gotten into the dungeon there should be 0 penalty.
    PSN: ***___Chan (3 _s)
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  • vladimilianoub17_ESO1
    vladimilianoub17_ESO1
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    you should get 0 penalty from being kicked no matter how long u have been inside the dungeon.The penalty sys was mostly designed for those who leave the dungeon and mostly for those targeting specific dungeons by selecting random queue and leaving grp until the dungeon that person wants appear.That it give a penalty to ppl for being kicked its an stupid idea.Cant believe they have not fixed it yet.Shame.
  • daedalusAI
    daedalusAI
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    /signed If you are kicked within 2 minutes of entering, the group is disbanded, or you haven't even gotten into the dungeon there should be 0 penalty.

    Either that or there should be a grace period where you are unable to kick someone once a group is formed for a dungeon.
  • Yulriad
    Yulriad
    daedalusAI wrote: »
    Either that or there should be a grace period where you are unable to kick someone once a group is formed for a dungeon.

    Like maybe a 15 minute grace period? :smiley:
    Edited by Yulriad on October 19, 2016 1:18PM
  • daedalusAI
    daedalusAI
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    Yulriad wrote: »
    daedalusAI wrote: »
    Either that or there should be a grace period where you are unable to kick someone once a group is formed for a dungeon.

    Like maybe a 15 minute grace period? :smiley:

    FF14 has a grace period of 15min before you can vote for disbanding the group - but you can leave the group without getting a penalty if people left the group after it has been formed.

    The grace period is mainly there to show those blockheads with their big cp numbers that even low-level can fill their role for which they queued.
  • Davor
    Davor
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    I just can't believe Geeks and Nerds are kicking other Geeks and Nerds out because make believe people are not "strong" enough. You would think when we were younger we were never accepted properly because we are not "strong" enough in real life and now they act the same like how they use to get treated.

    How Ironic.

    I guess this is why I don't want to really do the MMO experience and rather play ESO as a single player since I am reading a lot of these topics. Bad enough I wasn't accepted in real life in my younger days because I wasn't "strong or good" enough and not in a fake world the people who were not being accepted do the exact same thing but in a make believe world.

    Shameful. Zenimx will have to do something about this, just unacceptable. I thought the kick out feature was when someone did or acted misbehaving not to be kicked out for not "strong or good" enough.
    Edited by Davor on October 19, 2016 1:28PM
    Not my quote but I love this saying

    "I would pay It for support. But since they choosed we are just numbers and not customers, i dont mind if game and zos goes to oblivion"
  • Hamiltonmath
    Hamiltonmath
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    Sorry to hear that happened to you. Since you are 27, you would only be doing a normal dungeon only anyway. Most moderately good players can self sustain anyway. In fact, I queue for non-vets and run with whoever all the time. If you are on xbox (NA) and I'm available, I'll gladly help.
  • daedalusAI
    daedalusAI
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    Sorry to hear that happened to you. Since you are 27, you would only be doing a normal dungeon only anyway. Most moderately good players can self sustain anyway. In fact, I queue for non-vets and run with whoever all the time. If you are on xbox (NA) and I'm available, I'll gladly help.

    Being a dk healer and low-level it's happening more and more in my not even 2 weeks back at eso.
    Normal II dungeons are normal dungeons - otherwise I wouldn't be able to queue for them.

    I've healed imperial prison and white-gold tower just fine with a few deaths here and there: the main obstacle are only those cp-obsessed blockheads not giving something "rare" as a dk healer and low-level on top of that a chance.
  • Hamiltonmath
    Hamiltonmath
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    daedalusAI wrote: »
    Sorry to hear that happened to you. Since you are 27, you would only be doing a normal dungeon only anyway. Most moderately good players can self sustain anyway. In fact, I queue for non-vets and run with whoever all the time. If you are on xbox (NA) and I'm available, I'll gladly help.

    Being a dk healer and low-level it's happening more and more in my not even 2 weeks back at eso.
    Normal II dungeons are normal dungeons - otherwise I wouldn't be able to queue for them.

    I've healed imperial prison and white-gold tower just fine with a few deaths here and there: the main obstacle are only those cp-obsessed blockheads not giving something "rare" as a dk healer and low-level on top of that a chance.

    Yeah, I agree with you. Some of the best healers I've been with have been DK or even Nightblades. Since it is a normal dungeon, people need not be elitist jerks, but some will .
  • Suter1972
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    if anyone has problems like the OP on ps4 EU and wants to group with me, please invite. Ive not done many dungeons but I play as a 90% healer with DPS for emergencies if I get ganked. Happy to learn by just having fun and not stressing about getting kicked or dieing lots.
    Was - Breton DC ( GIRL - Guy In Real Life toon) Magika Templar Healer/ 5-8 trait Crafter - currently CP290 and learning now starting again on xbox…...

    xbox suter1972 - Character name - Hota Woskeef

    Xbox EU ESO+ Mature (40+) UK casual gamer
  • Nirrudn
    Nirrudn
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    If high CP characters were having trouble completing a normal dungeon, you probably dodged a bullet on that group anyway.

    But yes, the 15 minute penalty doesn't really do anyone good.
    Edited by Nirrudn on October 19, 2016 2:05PM
  • Rune_Relic
    Rune_Relic
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    Would you be pre emptively kicked if no one could see your CP ?
    Anything that can be exploited will be exploited
  • DocFrost72
    DocFrost72
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    Rune_Relic wrote: »
    Would you be pre emptively kicked if no one could see your CP ?

    Because people assume that a level 27 cannot carry. Most of the time, correct. That said, give the guy/gal a damn chance.
  • Solus
    Solus
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    Im CP 274 and i still get kicked. I literally have to quickly tag my gear into group chat and say my weapon damage and every single time they say the same thing: " i think i like this guy"

    I was kicked from a Vet CoS, rejoined THE SAME GROUP literally after my 15 mins was up, conversation was:

    "Didnt we kick this guy already?"

    "Yeah we did."

    Their tank ended up leaving after i tagged my all legendary gear, we got another tank and killed Velidreth, I ended up doing a total of 2.8 million health to the boss myself.

    I just feel like maybe they shouldnt let people kick people right away, allow them to play a bit, and if it doesnt work, then give them the ability to do it. Also dont put under 50 players with CP players. If youre like under 30, you just RECENTLY unlocked your second bar. Which means you dont have the skill points that you need to be able to effectively take down bosses.

    I still think under 50 players shouldnt be allowed to group. 1-50 is a "learn the game" period. IMO
    The-Pumpkin-King // Stamblade

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  • daedalusAI
    daedalusAI
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    DocFrost72 wrote: »
    Rune_Relic wrote: »
    Would you be pre emptively kicked if no one could see your CP ?

    Because people assume that a level 27 cannot carry. Most of the time, correct. That said, give the guy/gal a damn chance.

    Why bother? If you immediately can kick a low-level like me without some sort of penalty you just repeat that until you have a full party of high level cp to do a normal dungeon - because having high cp already minimizes the chances that those players suck.
    Edited by daedalusAI on October 19, 2016 6:21PM
  • brandonv516
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    There should be NO penalty for being vote kicked within the first 5 minutes. End of discussion on my end.
  • BlanketFort
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    For Others like OP who have encountered these situations, hit me up (XB1 EU GT: mueckenstiche). I'm always up for a dungeon unless I'm already in one or have to log off the game soon. And I promise not to vote to kick you off the group and not be an ass :) at the worst, we'll both get kicked off together haha!

    ZOS should really fix the penalty for being vote-kicked. If vet content is only achievable on a certain CP level, then implement that rule! That this even happened on a normal dungeon is insane. Normal dungeons are relatively easy and smoothly achievable, regardless of level (okay, maybe if it's a level 10 with only 2 skills, then it might be more difficult). If you're a high cp blockhead who queued for random (esp normal) then stick with your group and give it a chance. It's normal difficulty, for Pete's sake. It's not that hard nor does it warrant being an elitist snob.
    ZOS should just gate Vet content by CP (this I totally understand. Vet dungeons are tough) AND penalise players for kicking players off within a certain amount of time. Either Leave the darn group or ask your fellow elite Meta guildies/friends to run it with you, if you are that disatisfied with the group that you ended up with.

    ZOS, fix it. It's getting out of control and the penalty is unjustified. Would be better if you just can't kick someone within 15 minutes and if certain content was gated to a CP level with which it is possible to complete the dungeon. This would then ensure that players who got into vet content have enough skill points and CP points allocated to finish it. But then again, I'm not exactly sure how the minimum CP would be agreed upon, if it were to be gated.

    One of the problems is that anyone can queue up for vet without necessarily knowing what awaits them in store. It's bad design, ZOS. Really bad.
    Edited by BlanketFort on October 20, 2016 12:50PM
  • pizzaow
    pizzaow
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    I think the biggest problem is the insta-kicks. Insta-kicks happen because the group doesn't think the new player can contribute or is ready for the dungeon. Most normal dungeons can easily carry 1-2 beginners, but it's more of a problem for vet dungeons.

    Here are some suggestions that might either give the group more confidence in a new player or penalize the group for an insta-kick:
    1. Vet dungeons need to be unlocked by completing the normal version first
    2. Vet dungeons are unlocked after you reach a certain level/CP or undaunted rank
    3. You can't vote to kick someone within the first 5 minutes
    4. Options for activity finder, like 'Require CP160+'
    XBox/NA GT: Pizzaow
  • Chew_Magna
    Chew_Magna
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    Davor wrote: »
    I just can't believe Geeks and Nerds are kicking other Geeks and Nerds out because make believe people are not "strong" enough. You would think when we were younger we were never accepted properly because we are not "strong" enough in real life and now they act the same like how they use to get treated.

    That's because the old version of geeks and nerds practically doesn't exist anymore. Gamers these days are more akin to the jocks and bullies of my time. Gaming isn't like it used to be. Going mainstream ruined it for the real geeks and nerds.
  • BlanketFort
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    pizzaow wrote: »
    I think the biggest problem is the insta-kicks. Insta-kicks happen because the group doesn't think the new player can contribute or is ready for the dungeon. Most normal dungeons can easily carry 1-2 beginners, but it's more of a problem for vet dungeons.

    Here are some suggestions that might either give the group more confidence in a new player or penalize the group for an insta-kick:
    1. Vet dungeons need to be unlocked by completing the normal version first
    2. Vet dungeons are unlocked after you reach a certain level/CP or undaunted rank
    3. You can't vote to kick someone within the first 5 minutes
    4. Options for activity finder, like 'Require CP160+'

    I would agree with the first 3 (especially 2 and 3) options but the 4th, I think, will do more harm than good. If options in the Activity Finder for CP/levels existed, it would very easily and very quickly leave out anyone under the preferred CP. I don't think we should add more walls and further differentiate (and alienate) players from one another. But, I really do like the first 3 options, albeit I'd prefer 2 over 1, in regards to how vet content can be gated.

    Just finishing normal is too easy and doesn't provide enough experience, as one can be carried through. But requiring a certain Undaunted Rank, would mean that that player has done enough pledges/dungeons to have somewhat, by now, understood that:
    -red is bad
    -tanks should aggro first and
    -DD can join the fight after.
    -to stay within healers' healing AoEs
    -dodge roll and block is essential
    And players have (hopefully) experienced enough difficulties in dungeons that they have improved their builds (to be more effective) by the time they hit vet content.

    This is coming from a "filthy casual" who wished a similar system had existed before, instead of the mess that we have now: completely without guidance. The countless times I've ended up in normal (and a handful of vet) dungeons without a clue... it must have been a pain for the group to pull my weight and I cannot blame them. Bless their sweet sweet patient souls for having stuck through with me (those who did, anyway). That very same experience has made it clear to me, that I should gain more CPs and tackle my own L2P issues in normal content. The only problem is, even the queue for random normals is full of elitist pricks. As average a player as I am, even I know that Normal difficulty (perhaps excluding DLC content) does not nearly warrant this kind of elitist behaviour. And Overland mobs are barely a smidge of a challenge, even after One Tamriel, to effectively practice on. So yes, there are plenty of inexperienced players in Random Normals.

    So, I kindly ask high CP players who get grouped with them, to give it a chance. Not all "scrubs" are hopeless. If someone is screwing up, first consider that it may be their first time.
    They are probably:
    -utterly overwhelmed resulting in
    -panic and therefore,
    -totally f*** up their rotations,
    -maybe even just completely lose track of which bar is active and use/spam the wrong abilities.
    -have no idea what boss mechanics are.
    -are actually scared that they'd rather stay far away, even if they are melee DPS.

    Exactly how I felt when I unwittingly entered my very first dungeon at 140ish CP (and it was vet CoA2, because I accidentally chose random vet instead of normal). I kept apologising for every death (plenty), I panicked so much that my rotation got out of whack. I ran out of stamina and could only spam light Bow attacks until I got enough to re-apply all DoTs. It was a complete disaster but the others did not call me out on it, instead they took me aside, explained how best to take down trash (stack them all up together or bring to others' AoEs), and to weave in heavy attacks, in the most non-condescending tone possible. After that, it got slightly better, I'd hear a "good job for dodging" every now and then throughout the round. And it felt good! I'm glad to say that it's improved by a lot since then. I seldom go into panic and mostly keep my cool and focus on keeping track of my DoTs (not all that difficult on console, even without add-ons), keeping my buffs up at all times and dodging/blocking. I now melee a boss like an annoying fly that keeps on circling around, always with mobility in mind! And who do I have to thank for? The helpful players who take a moment of their time to explain things to help someone out.

    My point is, Most of the time, helpful and friendly advice, if given appropriately, will immediately reward one (if one pays attention) with general improvement in that player's play style (they'll avoid more reds, dodge more, etc.). And if that player turns out to be a jerk, then do yourself a favour and leave the group (not kick) perhaps ask others if they'd rather leave, group up, and queue again.

    As for high CP players that, apparently, have no clue as to what they are doing: this only serves to prove that a high CP does not guarantee an experienced player.

    Wow, that was long. Holy guacamole. I need to find a better distraction at work.
  • Alucardo
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    What's wrong with a DK healer? They are probably up there right under Templars. I agree with others about a "grace period" before you can get kicked. At least give everyone a chance instead of judging them before the fight even begins. People are stupid.
  • Snit
    Snit
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    I sometimes get groups that disband instantly. I'm a CP 425 stamsorc DPS, so I doubt it's me. But the second I join, the leader disbands it.

    15 minute penalty. Makes sense.
    Edited by Snit on October 22, 2016 3:03AM
    Snit AD Sorc
    Ratbag AD Warden Tank
    Goblins AD Stamblade

  • failkiwib16_ESO
    failkiwib16_ESO
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    I think it's unfair to let in a level 27 in CoA II.... the grouping tool needs more options, and people need to be better informed about difficulty of dungeons.

    Regardless of that though, the penalties really bother me. I once made a mistake, resulting in me & my whole group to get a 15min penalty untill we could reque into a dungeon together :(
  • daedalusAI
    daedalusAI
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    I really couldn't care less if you kick me through a majority vote - but penalizing the person that was kicked to sit through 15min before he can queue again is just mind-blowing.
  • James-Wayne
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    I agree the penalty is WAY to harsh because the LFG tool is to stupid to realise a Level 27 shouldn't be put in a group with high level CP players OR City of Ash II... there are a few vet dungeons that low level players should not be doing.
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  • daedalusAI
    daedalusAI
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    I agree the penalty is WAY to harsh because the LFG tool is to stupid to realise a Level 27 shouldn't be put in a group with high level CP players OR City of Ash II... there are a few vet dungeons that low level players should not be doing.

    The normal II dungeons can be done by low-level like myself if they know basics like dodging red and speaking up if they don't know certain mechanics and are actually able to read chat and apply what they've been told - which is the hardest part about those normal II dungeons.
  • Stopnaggin
    Stopnaggin
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    Happened to me yesterday, qued for dungeon, waited 10 minutes, shows up in a group 30 seconds later group disbanded and I'm stuck waiting 15 more minutes. How is this even right ZOS?
  • LadyNalcarya
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    Imo there should be no penalty at all, its just stupid.
    As long as there is penalty, some people will abuse it.
    Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason

    PC/EU
  • SaRuZ
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    I'm a MagSorc Tank(159 CP) and was kicked out of Banished Cells 1 Normal right after joining. I can tank all Normal 1 and 2's in my sleep and unlike 90% of Tanks that pick the role to get in faster. My build is solely tank. I pull aggro and sustain, keep my shields up and retire the healer. I played keep away with the Ash Titan in CoA 2 for 12 minutes after it obliterated the entire party, with it's two ads up too. So, their loss really.

    On another note, I didn't mess with Group Dungeons until I was CP 60 and running dungeons with lvl 10-30 can be tedious. My advice is level more and then go for the dungeon content. I still can't even touch Veteran content.
  • Jeremy
    Jeremy
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    daedalusAI wrote: »
    Just queued for my daily random dungeon on my lvl 27 dk healer.
    Got put into an ongoing city of ash II group.

    Not even 1 second after I've loaded into the dungeon they're like "oh it's a dk healer" and "oh look only lvl 27" and I got kicked out not even 10 seconds later.
    They were all high cp and it seems they did wipe on a boss multiple times because on of them said something like "lets try with a new healer and if it doesn't work kick me for low dps" when the group was formed.

    Now I'm forced to idle around while waiting for the 15min dungeon finder cooldown to finish before queuing again.

    You implement a random dungeon finder with no "protection" from being kicked immediately without any reason and yet you force the person who was kicked to wait the whole 15min for him to queue again.

    I'm getting more and more annoyed by this.

    They should have never kicked you without giving you a chance first, no matter what race/class you was.

    I agree with above poster that there should be no penalties for being kicked.

    City of Ash II is one of the more difficult dungeons to pug, so they had probably already suffered multiple wipes and failed attempts. In other words - they were pissed off and cranky so took it out on you.

    Edited by Jeremy on October 29, 2016 3:57AM
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