Funnel Health vs Force Pulse

pewbis

I have heard that I am supposed to use force pulse for dps, but on the tool tip this not only deals less damage, but it costs more than funnel health and doesn't heal. The sets I use are Julianos, Skoria, and Infalliable, so no proc-on-crit or anything...

Someone said that force pulse "scales better" in vet dungeons and trials. Is this true? Can any magnb tell me what the difference in dps/damage on the tooltip is from one skill to the other inside of a dungeon or trial?

Thanks fam

kuro-dono

high elf with destro staff using force pulse benefits most from it. Any other reason...? cant figure out, depends on your role/build/play style and race.

Gilliamtherogue

Force pulse instantly beats Funnel Health point for point of damage if you are a Dark Elf, and comes just shy of >50 damage if you're a High Elf in unbuffed situations when attacking non elemental weak mob types. Once you fight a mob type that is weak to Ice, Shock, or Fire, Force Pulse wins for raw damage, and overall damage due to the ability to proc weaknesses.

On top of this, even for non Dark/High Elves, if Engulfing Flames is applied to a mob, Force Pulse will instantly win as well.

Force Pulse has a bonus to proc Burning, Concussed, and Chill, on top of being able to proc Explosion on Fire weak enemies, Disintegration on Lightning weak enemies, and Deep Freeze on Frost weak enemies. Force Pulse also scales better with crit chance and modifiers, as there are 3 hits per cast (which gets more accurate results, the higher # of hits, the more likely you will achieve "true" results when dealing with RNG) vs 1 from Funnel.


Force Pulse also has the advantage of proccing Elemental Drain, an extremely potent resource management tool in groups, which refunds Magicka each time you deal, Fire, Ice, or Shock damage. Force pulse can no longer proc it three times (it used to be able to), but can still proc it twice if you crit on at least one damage source, and non crit on another. With this added, Force Pulse actually becomes cheaper in the long haul than Funnel.

Furthermore, Force Pulse is MUCH easier to weave and doesn't lock up as much as Funnel Health. Funnel/Swallow has an extremely long winded animation filled with "fluff" that is required to block cast to cancel, but cannot be done over long fights. Force Pulse is a simple and easy animation, and is much harder to muck up.

Hope this helps!

Alucardo

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Force pulse instantly beats Funnel Health point for point of damage if you are a Dark Elf, and comes just shy of >50 damage if you're a High Elf in unbuffed situations when attacking non elemental weak mob types. Once you fight a mob type that is weak to Ice, Shock, or Fire, Force Pulse wins for raw damage, and overall damage due to the ability to proc weaknesses.

On top of this, even for non Dark/High Elves, if Engulfing Flames is applied to a mob, Force Pulse will instantly win as well.

Force Pulse has a bonus to proc Burning, Concussed, and Chill, on top of being able to proc Explosion on Fire weak enemies, Disintegration on Lightning weak enemies, and Deep Freeze on Frost weak enemies. Force Pulse also scales better with crit chance and modifiers, as there are 3 hits per cast (which gets more accurate results, the higher # of hits, the more likely you will achieve "true" results when dealing with RNG) vs 1 from Funnel.


Force Pulse also has the advantage of proccing Elemental Drain, an extremely potent resource management tool in groups, which refunds Magicka each time you deal, Fire, Ice, or Shock damage. Force pulse can no longer proc it three times (it used to be able to), but can still proc it twice if you crit on at least one damage source, and non crit on another. With this added, Force Pulse actually becomes cheaper in the long haul than Funnel.

Furthermore, Force Pulse is MUCH easier to weave and doesn't lock up as much as Funnel Health. Funnel/Swallow has an extremely long winded animation filled with "fluff" that is required to block cast to cancel, but cannot be done over long fights. Force Pulse is a simple and easy animation, and is much harder to muck up.

Hope this helps!

So basically funnel health is the way to go?

Joking! Thanks for the in depth write up on force pulse. Enlightening stuff.

WalksonGraves

Yeah my first char was a mag nb using swallow soul. Lowest dps I've seen, my stamsorc surpassed it at lvl 12

Xvorg

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Force pulse instantly beats Funnel Health point for point of damage if you are a Dark Elf, and comes just shy of >50 damage if you're a High Elf in unbuffed situations when attacking non elemental weak mob types. Once you fight a mob type that is weak to Ice, Shock, or Fire, Force Pulse wins for raw damage, and overall damage due to the ability to proc weaknesses.

On top of this, even for non Dark/High Elves, if Engulfing Flames is applied to a mob, Force Pulse will instantly win as well.

Force Pulse has a bonus to proc Burning, Concussed, and Chill, on top of being able to proc Explosion on Fire weak enemies, Disintegration on Lightning weak enemies, and Deep Freeze on Frost weak enemies. Force Pulse also scales better with crit chance and modifiers, as there are 3 hits per cast (which gets more accurate results, the higher # of hits, the more likely you will achieve "true" results when dealing with RNG) vs 1 from Funnel.


Force Pulse also has the advantage of proccing Elemental Drain, an extremely potent resource management tool in groups, which refunds Magicka each time you deal, Fire, Ice, or Shock damage. Force pulse can no longer proc it three times (it used to be able to), but can still proc it twice if you crit on at least one damage source, and non crit on another. With this added, Force Pulse actually becomes cheaper in the long haul than Funnel.

Furthermore, Force Pulse is MUCH easier to weave and doesn't lock up as much as Funnel Health. Funnel/Swallow has an extremely long winded animation filled with "fluff" that is required to block cast to cancel, but cannot be done over long fights. Force Pulse is a simple and easy animation, and is much harder to muck up.

Hope this helps!

For a dunmer/altmer mageblade, Force pulse is a good option. The combo with elemental drain is worth BUT, imho, NBs magicka skills per se are far superior than destro staff ones. The only reason why you need destro staff is for weaving:

1. Path of darkness beats WoE dmg unless you have a MS staff, but their secondary effects (major exp, or the heal of refresh path) are far superior, and the passives they activate are worth a look (shadow barrier)
2. Strife is cheaper and does similar dmg to force pulse, but it has a heal and granst you 2 extra ulti each 4 secs. Not to mention the increase in magicka
3. Agony and cripple give you more DoT than destro reach and their morphs have great secondary effects
4. Though interesting, WTE is not better than mark target. Do you regain magicka through elemental attacks with elemental drain? You can do better with siph attacks and basic attacks
5. Impulse < sap essence
6. the Ulti everyone talks about is not better than VoB or Soul Tether and both cost less ulti.
7. Finally, with impale you have a ranged execute

WalksonGraves

Lol at sap essence. 4k mag to do a few k dmg aoe vs whirlwind that costs like 600 stam and does 4x the damage.

Or you could cast hurricane once and its like 20 saps in a row.

Xvorg

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Lol at sap essence. 4k mag to do a few k dmg aoe vs whirlwind that costs like 600 stam and does 4x the damage.

Or you could cast hurricane once and its like 20 saps in a row.

We are comparing destro staf skills to magicka NB. No point in bringin the almighty stamina to the discussion, we all know it is easy mode for no brainers

Valykc

Edit: removed because I'm not positive if the information is correct

WalksonGraves

Xvorg wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Lol at sap essence. 4k mag to do a few k dmg aoe vs whirlwind that costs like 600 stam and does 4x the damage.

Or you could cast hurricane once and its like 20 saps in a row.

We are comparing destro staf skills to magicka NB. No point in bringin the almighty stamina to the discussion, we all know it is easy mode for no brainers

Why bother making a lesser version of a similar build?

PS4_ZeColmeia

I changed from funnel to swallow because the 8% heal which is better than the wonkey single shared hot, funnel was worth it when it was 2 hots.

Strife has never been high DPS, it's a spammable hot. You drop it and come back every 6 seconds or so and pairs great with siphon strikes weaving to get magicka back since its so cheap.

When going high ultimate recast, layering strife with drain is pretty much tank mode in LA DW as a mageblade.

PS4_ZeColmeia

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Lol at sap essence. 4k mag to do a few k dmg aoe vs whirlwind that costs like 600 stam and does 4x the damage.

Or you could cast hurricane once and its like 20 saps in a row.

yeah but do you get to heal yourself, your group, and get major brutality and sorcery in one cast for 400 stam?

WalksonGraves

PS4_ZeColmeia wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Lol at sap essence. 4k mag to do a few k dmg aoe vs whirlwind that costs like 600 stam and does 4x the damage.

Or you could cast hurricane once and its like 20 saps in a row.

yeah but do you get to heal yourself, your group, and get major brutality and sorcery in one cast for 400 stam?

You heal every time you crit, hit everything several times a second, get brutality, major ward, etc.
All that and more.
hurricane, blade cloak, surge.
Trust me ive ran both, im just waiting for zos to nerf it because its stupid op.

Autolycus

Refer to Gilliam's post. He's hit all of the key points that explain why people select Force Pulse over Strife.

STEVIL

Pop fuel health every 10s or so for the HOT and use force for the other shots in between.

Gilliamtherogue

Xvorg wrote: »

For a dunmer/altmer mageblade, Force pulse is a good option. The combo with elemental drain is worth BUT, imho, NBs magicka skills per se are far superior than destro staff ones. The only reason why you need destro staff is for weaving:

1. Path of darkness beats WoE dmg unless you have a MS staff, but their secondary effects (major exp, or the heal of refresh path) are far superior, and the passives they activate are worth a look (shadow barrier)
2. Strife is cheaper and does similar dmg to force pulse, but it has a heal and granst you 2 extra ulti each 4 secs. Not to mention the increase in magicka
3. Agony and cripple give you more DoT than destro reach and their morphs have great secondary effects
4. Though interesting, WTE is not better than mark target. Do you regain magicka through elemental attacks with elemental drain? You can do better with siph attacks and basic attacks
5. Impulse < sap essence
6. the Ulti everyone talks about is not better than VoB or Soul Tether and both cost less ulti.
7. Finally, with impale you have a ranged execute

1. Path of Darkness doesn't even come close to Blockade of Fire, even without a Maelstrom Staff. Maelstrom Staves only add damage to Light Attacks, they don't directly buff Blockade/Unstable. The movement speed is also redundant due to Debilitate/Cripple. For context;
2. You get the same passive from other abilities slotted, it does not stack. Also the context of his question asked about damage. Anyone can see that Swallow Soul performs better in solo play due to the heal. The ultimate gen is also slightly hindered because you still cast Siphoning abilities at least every 8s.
3. Agony's DoT is horrendous and comes no where near Destructive Reach. I will agree on the other hand, that Cripple is better.
4. Mark Target is redundant in most applications, even furtherso for Magicka toons. You can't run this skill without giving something else up that is vastly superior. I also didn't suggest to run Elemental Drain in solo, it's a group utility tool that prevents the need to even slot Siphoning Strikes.
5. Impulse beats Sap Essence for damage dealt, but Sap hits more targets. Depends on the situation in which one is better.
6. Elemental Rage blows both VoB and Tether out of the water in terms of damage capabilities. Neither of them pull even half of what Rage can do.

No one suggested you slot all Destruction Staff abilities anyways. This game is all about mixing different skill lines up for what the content calls for, not running some stationary bar setup. Please do not try and spread misinformation, the forums and player base already suffers enough from it.

hedna123b14_ESO

Xvorg wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Force pulse instantly beats Funnel Health point for point of damage if you are a Dark Elf, and comes just shy of >50 damage if you're a High Elf in unbuffed situations when attacking non elemental weak mob types. Once you fight a mob type that is weak to Ice, Shock, or Fire, Force Pulse wins for raw damage, and overall damage due to the ability to proc weaknesses.

On top of this, even for non Dark/High Elves, if Engulfing Flames is applied to a mob, Force Pulse will instantly win as well.

Force Pulse has a bonus to proc Burning, Concussed, and Chill, on top of being able to proc Explosion on Fire weak enemies, Disintegration on Lightning weak enemies, and Deep Freeze on Frost weak enemies. Force Pulse also scales better with crit chance and modifiers, as there are 3 hits per cast (which gets more accurate results, the higher # of hits, the more likely you will achieve "true" results when dealing with RNG) vs 1 from Funnel.


Force Pulse also has the advantage of proccing Elemental Drain, an extremely potent resource management tool in groups, which refunds Magicka each time you deal, Fire, Ice, or Shock damage. Force pulse can no longer proc it three times (it used to be able to), but can still proc it twice if you crit on at least one damage source, and non crit on another. With this added, Force Pulse actually becomes cheaper in the long haul than Funnel.

Furthermore, Force Pulse is MUCH easier to weave and doesn't lock up as much as Funnel Health. Funnel/Swallow has an extremely long winded animation filled with "fluff" that is required to block cast to cancel, but cannot be done over long fights. Force Pulse is a simple and easy animation, and is much harder to muck up.

Hope this helps!

For a dunmer/altmer mageblade, Force pulse is a good option. The combo with elemental drain is worth BUT, imho, NBs magicka skills per se are far superior than destro staff ones. The only reason why you need destro staff is for weaving:

1. Path of darkness beats WoE dmg unless you have a MS staff, but their secondary effects (major exp, or the heal of refresh path) are far superior, and the passives they activate are worth a look (shadow barrier)
2. Strife is cheaper and does similar dmg to force pulse, but it has a heal and granst you 2 extra ulti each 4 secs. Not to mention the increase in magicka
3. Agony and cripple give you more DoT than destro reach and their morphs have great secondary effects
4. Though interesting, WTE is not better than mark target. Do you regain magicka through elemental attacks with elemental drain? You can do better with siph attacks and basic attacks
5. Impulse < sap essence
6. the Ulti everyone talks about is not better than VoB or Soul Tether and both cost less ulti.
7. Finally, with impale you have a ranged execute

Lol....
1. Path of Darkness isnt even close to WoE damage...
2. Force Pulse as Gil pointed out does more damage...again wrong...

kylewwefan

Why does everyone always go with force pulse and not crushing shock? I took crushing for the interrupt.

WoE is very strong yes. I'm not good, so I put Refreshing Path right over top of it. It gives me shadow barrier passive and heals good while spamming Swallow Soul.

Alucardo

kylewwefan wrote: »

Why does everyone always go with force pulse and not crushing shock? I took crushing for the interrupt.

WoE is very strong yes. I'm not good, so I put Refreshing Path right over top of it. It gives me shadow barrier passive and heals good while spamming Swallow Soul.

Crushing shock is awesome in PVP, but in PVE I'd probably go with Pulse because interrupting isn't AS important.

code65536

kylewwefan wrote: »

Why does everyone always go with force pulse and not crushing shock? I took crushing for the interrupt.

WoE is very strong yes. I'm not good, so I put Refreshing Path right over top of it. It gives me shadow barrier passive and heals good while spamming Swallow Soul.

Context is important. The people responding in this thread advocating Force Pulse spend most of their gaming time in vet trials--large-scale group PvE. In this context, maximizing DPS is more important, and in addition to the higher tooltip damage, Force Pulse can also have an AoE component. Also, in this context, there aren't many situations where a ranged interrupt is useful (plus, there are usually melee DPS who can take care of the interrupts). The amount of lost DPS doesn't really justify utility in a few isolated cases.

However, if you look at it in a different context--e.g., PvP--then the utility from Crushing Shock would outweigh the damage from Force Pulse.

And speaking of context, it's important to note that Force Pulse does carry two major downsides: It does not heal, and it costs about twice as much as Strife. In the context of large-scale group PvE (trials), these two issues are moot because you have two dedicated healers providing heals and applying Ele Drain (which compensates for the cost difference). For solo PvE (e.g., vMA), you definitely want Strife instead. And for small-group PvE (4-man dungeons), Funnel is an excellent choice because the healer in 4-man content is often not a dedicated healer and it's common for the healer to do DPS. Using Funnel will result in lower DPS for you, but it means that the healer has to worry less about healing or applying Ele Drain and the healer will be able to devote much more time to doing DPS--you're sacrificing a bit of personal DPS for better overall group DPS. (If, however, you are grouped with one of those healers in a 4-man dungeon who only heals/supports and doesn't do DPS, then you might as well use FP. Again, context matters.)

kylewwefan

Thanks for that in depth explanation! I really didn't want to have to go respec...but I might for different situations now. At least morphs

Foxic

@Gilliamtherogue why path of darkness over twisting path?

Gilliamtherogue

TotallyNotVos wrote: »

@Gilliamtherogue why path of darkness over twisting path?

Ideally you would use Twisting Path instead, as it would deal a little more damage and hit more targets due to the larger area. I simply had run in my vMA setup of Juli with Refreshing Path. Still, Twisting does not even come near to contending with Blockade of Elements or Unstable Wall.

Izaki

Xvorg wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Lol at sap essence. 4k mag to do a few k dmg aoe vs whirlwind that costs like 600 stam and does 4x the damage.

Or you could cast hurricane once and its like 20 saps in a row.

We are comparing destro staf skills to magicka NB. No point in bringin the almighty stamina to the discussion, we all know it is easy mode for no brainers

Easy mode aye? Well that just shows how much you don't know what you're talking about.

Xvorg wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Force pulse instantly beats Funnel Health point for point of damage if you are a Dark Elf, and comes just shy of >50 damage if you're a High Elf in unbuffed situations when attacking non elemental weak mob types. Once you fight a mob type that is weak to Ice, Shock, or Fire, Force Pulse wins for raw damage, and overall damage due to the ability to proc weaknesses.

On top of this, even for non Dark/High Elves, if Engulfing Flames is applied to a mob, Force Pulse will instantly win as well.

Force Pulse has a bonus to proc Burning, Concussed, and Chill, on top of being able to proc Explosion on Fire weak enemies, Disintegration on Lightning weak enemies, and Deep Freeze on Frost weak enemies. Force Pulse also scales better with crit chance and modifiers, as there are 3 hits per cast (which gets more accurate results, the higher # of hits, the more likely you will achieve "true" results when dealing with RNG) vs 1 from Funnel.


Force Pulse also has the advantage of proccing Elemental Drain, an extremely potent resource management tool in groups, which refunds Magicka each time you deal, Fire, Ice, or Shock damage. Force pulse can no longer proc it three times (it used to be able to), but can still proc it twice if you crit on at least one damage source, and non crit on another. With this added, Force Pulse actually becomes cheaper in the long haul than Funnel.

Furthermore, Force Pulse is MUCH easier to weave and doesn't lock up as much as Funnel Health. Funnel/Swallow has an extremely long winded animation filled with "fluff" that is required to block cast to cancel, but cannot be done over long fights. Force Pulse is a simple and easy animation, and is much harder to muck up.

Hope this helps!

For a dunmer/altmer mageblade, Force pulse is a good option. The combo with elemental drain is worth BUT, imho, NBs magicka skills per se are far superior than destro staff ones. The only reason why you need destro staff is for weaving:

1. Path of darkness beats WoE dmg unless you have a MS staff, but their secondary effects (major exp, or the heal of refresh path) are far superior, and the passives they activate are worth a look (shadow barrier)
2. Strife is cheaper and does similar dmg to force pulse, but it has a heal and granst you 2 extra ulti each 4 secs. Not to mention the increase in magicka
3. Agony and cripple give you more DoT than destro reach and their morphs have great secondary effects
4. Though interesting, WTE is not better than mark target. Do you regain magicka through elemental attacks with elemental drain? You can do better with siph attacks and basic attacks
5. Impulse < sap essence
6. the Ulti everyone talks about is not better than VoB or Soul Tether and both cost less ulti.
7. Finally, with impale you have a ranged execute

1. The Path has got to be the WORST ground placed DoT in the game. Elemental Blockade is one of the strongest (behind Endless Hail and Liquid Lightning) beats both and is a must have in ANY magicka build, vMA staff or not.
2. The increase in magicka is a passive that can be activated by slotting any other Siphoning Ability. That point is entirely invalid. As a mageblade DPS, if you're not using Crippling Grasp and Siphoning Attacks you're doing it wrong. If you're saying that Funnel Health is cheaper and does more damage you're also wrong. Funnel Health does have its uses, but mostly in content where you need self healing - vMA or PvP. For everything else, as a DPS you're meant to be putting out as much damage as possible at the sake of survivability. You only need so much survivability to make it through content (healers and tanks are there for you, oh yeah and shields are also there), but you never have enough damage.
3. So what? This is not about whether the Destruction Staff skill line can replace the Siphoning one is it? Cripple is arguably the best magicka DoT in the game. Agony on the other hand isn't worth slotting over Destructive Clench. Just look at the numbers. We are talking about DPS here aren't we? Agony lasts 7 seconds (if you chose that morph) and it doesn't have initial damage, so its a considerable DPS loss when compared to Destructive Clench, taking into account that both skills provide a CC (which is really not worth slotting either, it really needs to get a buff).
4. This is just stupid. Elemental Drain isn't there for the debuff, as the tank is already providing that debuff. The healer is using Elemental Drain to help with sustain. The skill proc's off Elemental blockade, your light attacks, Force Pulse and Shooting Star, so its a must have in any group with magicka DPS if you want to sustain for longer than 5 minutes. Its complimentary to Siphoning Attacks, not a replacement by any means.
5. You should have at least 1 person running Pulsar for the group, because 10% less total HP in one hit > a hit with Sap Essence. But yes I agree that Impulse is utter ***.
6. In terms of pure DPS or in terms of utility? In terms of DPS, Elemental Rage is probably the strongest magicka ultimate in the game. In terms of utility? Most certainly not. Still I'd use Elemental Rage over Soul Tether (which is only good in PvP and literally nothing else) for DPS.
7. Again this is not about replacing NB abilities with Destruction Staff abilities. Destruction Staff abilities are complimentary to class skills. The only must have destruction staff skill on a magicka DPS is Elemental Blockade. The best ability for a magicka spammable aside from Puncturing Sweeps and Whip is Force Pulse without a single doubt though.

Edit: Didn't see that Gil and Hedna already replied to this...

Izaki

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

TotallyNotVos wrote: »

@Gilliamtherogue why path of darkness over twisting path?

Ideally you would use Twisting Path instead, as it would deal a little more damage and hit more targets due to the larger area. I simply had run in my vMA setup of Juli with Refreshing Path. Still, Twisting does not even come near to contending with Blockade of Elements or Unstable Wall.

@Gilliamtherogue why unstable wall instead of blockade? I'm guessing because of the horrendous duration of the path? that way you'd have 2 applications of unstable wall for every 1 path? Is that the logic behind it?

I'm also guessing you consider Skoria is BiS for mageblades? Interesting considering I finally got my divines head piece today.

hedna123b14_ESO

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Lol at sap essence. 4k mag to do a few k dmg aoe vs whirlwind that costs like 600 stam and does 4x the damage.

Or you could cast hurricane once and its like 20 saps in a row.

We are comparing destro staf skills to magicka NB. No point in bringin the almighty stamina to the discussion, we all know it is easy mode for no brainers

Easy mode aye? Well that just shows how much you don't know what you're talking about.

Xvorg wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Force pulse instantly beats Funnel Health point for point of damage if you are a Dark Elf, and comes just shy of >50 damage if you're a High Elf in unbuffed situations when attacking non elemental weak mob types. Once you fight a mob type that is weak to Ice, Shock, or Fire, Force Pulse wins for raw damage, and overall damage due to the ability to proc weaknesses.

On top of this, even for non Dark/High Elves, if Engulfing Flames is applied to a mob, Force Pulse will instantly win as well.

Force Pulse has a bonus to proc Burning, Concussed, and Chill, on top of being able to proc Explosion on Fire weak enemies, Disintegration on Lightning weak enemies, and Deep Freeze on Frost weak enemies. Force Pulse also scales better with crit chance and modifiers, as there are 3 hits per cast (which gets more accurate results, the higher # of hits, the more likely you will achieve "true" results when dealing with RNG) vs 1 from Funnel.


Force Pulse also has the advantage of proccing Elemental Drain, an extremely potent resource management tool in groups, which refunds Magicka each time you deal, Fire, Ice, or Shock damage. Force pulse can no longer proc it three times (it used to be able to), but can still proc it twice if you crit on at least one damage source, and non crit on another. With this added, Force Pulse actually becomes cheaper in the long haul than Funnel.

Furthermore, Force Pulse is MUCH easier to weave and doesn't lock up as much as Funnel Health. Funnel/Swallow has an extremely long winded animation filled with "fluff" that is required to block cast to cancel, but cannot be done over long fights. Force Pulse is a simple and easy animation, and is much harder to muck up.

Hope this helps!

For a dunmer/altmer mageblade, Force pulse is a good option. The combo with elemental drain is worth BUT, imho, NBs magicka skills per se are far superior than destro staff ones. The only reason why you need destro staff is for weaving:

1. Path of darkness beats WoE dmg unless you have a MS staff, but their secondary effects (major exp, or the heal of refresh path) are far superior, and the passives they activate are worth a look (shadow barrier)
2. Strife is cheaper and does similar dmg to force pulse, but it has a heal and granst you 2 extra ulti each 4 secs. Not to mention the increase in magicka
3. Agony and cripple give you more DoT than destro reach and their morphs have great secondary effects
4. Though interesting, WTE is not better than mark target. Do you regain magicka through elemental attacks with elemental drain? You can do better with siph attacks and basic attacks
5. Impulse < sap essence
6. the Ulti everyone talks about is not better than VoB or Soul Tether and both cost less ulti.
7. Finally, with impale you have a ranged execute

1. The Path has got to be the WORST ground placed DoT in the game. Elemental Blockade is one of the strongest (behind Endless Hail and Liquid Lightning) beats both and is a must have in ANY magicka build, vMA staff or not.
2. The increase in magicka is a passive that can be activated by slotting any other Siphoning Ability. That point is entirely invalid. As a mageblade DPS, if you're not using Crippling Grasp and Siphoning Attacks you're doing it wrong. If you're saying that Funnel Health is cheaper and does more damage you're also wrong. Funnel Health does have its uses, but mostly in content where you need self healing - vMA or PvP. For everything else, as a DPS you're meant to be putting out as much damage as possible at the sake of survivability. You only need so much survivability to make it through content (healers and tanks are there for you, oh yeah and shields are also there), but you never have enough damage.
3. So what? This is not about whether the Destruction Staff skill line can replace the Siphoning one is it? Cripple is arguably the best magicka DoT in the game. Agony on the other hand isn't worth slotting over Destructive Clench. Just look at the numbers. We are talking about DPS here aren't we? Agony lasts 7 seconds (if you chose that morph) and it doesn't have initial damage, so its a considerable DPS loss when compared to Destructive Clench, taking into account that both skills provide a CC (which is really not worth slotting either, it really needs to get a buff).
4. This is just stupid. Elemental Drain isn't there for the debuff, as the tank is already providing that debuff. The healer is using Elemental Drain to help with sustain. The skill proc's off Elemental blockade, your light attacks, Force Pulse and Shooting Star, so its a must have in any group with magicka DPS if you want to sustain for longer than 5 minutes. Its complimentary to Siphoning Attacks, not a replacement by any means.
5. You should have at least 1 person running Pulsar for the group, because 10% less total HP in one hit > a hit with Sap Essence. But yes I agree that Impulse is utter ***.
6. In terms of pure DPS or in terms of utility? In terms of DPS, Elemental Rage is probably the strongest magicka ultimate in the game. In terms of utility? Most certainly not. Still I'd use Elemental Rage over Soul Tether (which is only good in PvP and literally nothing else) for DPS.
7. Again this is not about replacing NB abilities with Destruction Staff abilities. Destruction Staff abilities are complimentary to class skills. The only must have destruction staff skill on a magicka DPS is Elemental Blockade. The best ability for a magicka spammable aside from Puncturing Sweeps and Whip is Force Pulse without a single doubt though.

Edit: Didn't see that Gil and Hedna already replied to this...

Did u see the storm version of the fire blockade? it doesnt get the damage buffs from the passives, but those 2 extra seconds on mobs is HUGE

Gilliamtherogue

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

TotallyNotVos wrote: »

@Gilliamtherogue why path of darkness over twisting path?

Ideally you would use Twisting Path instead, as it would deal a little more damage and hit more targets due to the larger area. I simply had run in my vMA setup of Juli with Refreshing Path. Still, Twisting does not even come near to contending with Blockade of Elements or Unstable Wall.

@Gilliamtherogue why unstable wall instead of blockade? I'm guessing because of the horrendous duration of the path? that way you'd have 2 applications of unstable wall for every 1 path? Is that the logic behind it?

I'm also guessing you consider Skoria is BiS for mageblades? Interesting considering I finally got my divines head piece today.

Unstable's Explosion hits 3 times, unlike the tooltip suggests. This means the final explosion is much stronger, and actually beats Blockade if a player is good enough at managing it. Notice that it's listed twice in my recap, once as a DoT, and once as a direct damage. The explosion part did an extra 1257 DPS on top of the already massive 7464 the base did.

Grothdarr crushes Valkyn as a 2pc and as a 1pc, but you can't always be melee, so I opt to run Valkyn for HM Rakkhat and other fights I need to be ranged.

pewbis

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Unstable's Explosion hits 3 times, unlike the tooltip suggests. This means the final explosion is much stronger, and actually beats Blockade if a player is good enough at managing it. Notice that it's listed twice in my recap, once as a DoT, and once as a direct damage. The explosion part did an extra 1257 DPS on top of the already massive 7464 the base did.

Really? That's an interesting point... why does the explosion hit 3 times? If this is true, I might have to slot unstable. How come nobody else knows about this? I have only ever heard that Blockade is better.

Thanks for te responses though.

Also, a question I posted on a different forum post and never got a response to, though it doesn't really relate with this one: How good is Moondancer's 5% damage bonus? I've heard that the damage boost is bugged, and doesn't work in some places, and that even when it works it gives less DPS than using a different 5 piece...

I have ALSO heard that it/infalliable is the optimal endgame set for magicka users.

(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻

Mush55

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Lol at sap essence. 4k mag to do a few k dmg aoe vs whirlwind that costs like 600 stam and does 4x the damage.

Or you could cast hurricane once and its like 20 saps in a row.

Not to be funny but my sap hit verry hard and tornado is the best AOE in game so not really fair to compare stamm to mag AOE's

Mush55

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

TotallyNotVos wrote: »

@Gilliamtherogue why path of darkness over twisting path?

Ideally you would use Twisting Path instead, as it would deal a little more damage and hit more targets due to the larger area. I simply had run in my vMA setup of Juli with Refreshing Path. Still, Twisting does not even come near to contending with Blockade of Elements or Unstable Wall.

Use it to proc scathing mage with this you can get about 80% uptime on scathing ......

Izaki

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Lol at sap essence. 4k mag to do a few k dmg aoe vs whirlwind that costs like 600 stam and does 4x the damage.

Or you could cast hurricane once and its like 20 saps in a row.

We are comparing destro staf skills to magicka NB. No point in bringin the almighty stamina to the discussion, we all know it is easy mode for no brainers

Easy mode aye? Well that just shows how much you don't know what you're talking about.

Xvorg wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Force pulse instantly beats Funnel Health point for point of damage if you are a Dark Elf, and comes just shy of >50 damage if you're a High Elf in unbuffed situations when attacking non elemental weak mob types. Once you fight a mob type that is weak to Ice, Shock, or Fire, Force Pulse wins for raw damage, and overall damage due to the ability to proc weaknesses.

On top of this, even for non Dark/High Elves, if Engulfing Flames is applied to a mob, Force Pulse will instantly win as well.

Force Pulse has a bonus to proc Burning, Concussed, and Chill, on top of being able to proc Explosion on Fire weak enemies, Disintegration on Lightning weak enemies, and Deep Freeze on Frost weak enemies. Force Pulse also scales better with crit chance and modifiers, as there are 3 hits per cast (which gets more accurate results, the higher # of hits, the more likely you will achieve "true" results when dealing with RNG) vs 1 from Funnel.


Force Pulse also has the advantage of proccing Elemental Drain, an extremely potent resource management tool in groups, which refunds Magicka each time you deal, Fire, Ice, or Shock damage. Force pulse can no longer proc it three times (it used to be able to), but can still proc it twice if you crit on at least one damage source, and non crit on another. With this added, Force Pulse actually becomes cheaper in the long haul than Funnel.

Furthermore, Force Pulse is MUCH easier to weave and doesn't lock up as much as Funnel Health. Funnel/Swallow has an extremely long winded animation filled with "fluff" that is required to block cast to cancel, but cannot be done over long fights. Force Pulse is a simple and easy animation, and is much harder to muck up.

Hope this helps!

For a dunmer/altmer mageblade, Force pulse is a good option. The combo with elemental drain is worth BUT, imho, NBs magicka skills per se are far superior than destro staff ones. The only reason why you need destro staff is for weaving:

1. Path of darkness beats WoE dmg unless you have a MS staff, but their secondary effects (major exp, or the heal of refresh path) are far superior, and the passives they activate are worth a look (shadow barrier)
2. Strife is cheaper and does similar dmg to force pulse, but it has a heal and granst you 2 extra ulti each 4 secs. Not to mention the increase in magicka
3. Agony and cripple give you more DoT than destro reach and their morphs have great secondary effects
4. Though interesting, WTE is not better than mark target. Do you regain magicka through elemental attacks with elemental drain? You can do better with siph attacks and basic attacks
5. Impulse < sap essence
6. the Ulti everyone talks about is not better than VoB or Soul Tether and both cost less ulti.
7. Finally, with impale you have a ranged execute

1. The Path has got to be the WORST ground placed DoT in the game. Elemental Blockade is one of the strongest (behind Endless Hail and Liquid Lightning) beats both and is a must have in ANY magicka build, vMA staff or not.
2. The increase in magicka is a passive that can be activated by slotting any other Siphoning Ability. That point is entirely invalid. As a mageblade DPS, if you're not using Crippling Grasp and Siphoning Attacks you're doing it wrong. If you're saying that Funnel Health is cheaper and does more damage you're also wrong. Funnel Health does have its uses, but mostly in content where you need self healing - vMA or PvP. For everything else, as a DPS you're meant to be putting out as much damage as possible at the sake of survivability. You only need so much survivability to make it through content (healers and tanks are there for you, oh yeah and shields are also there), but you never have enough damage.
3. So what? This is not about whether the Destruction Staff skill line can replace the Siphoning one is it? Cripple is arguably the best magicka DoT in the game. Agony on the other hand isn't worth slotting over Destructive Clench. Just look at the numbers. We are talking about DPS here aren't we? Agony lasts 7 seconds (if you chose that morph) and it doesn't have initial damage, so its a considerable DPS loss when compared to Destructive Clench, taking into account that both skills provide a CC (which is really not worth slotting either, it really needs to get a buff).
4. This is just stupid. Elemental Drain isn't there for the debuff, as the tank is already providing that debuff. The healer is using Elemental Drain to help with sustain. The skill proc's off Elemental blockade, your light attacks, Force Pulse and Shooting Star, so its a must have in any group with magicka DPS if you want to sustain for longer than 5 minutes. Its complimentary to Siphoning Attacks, not a replacement by any means.
5. You should have at least 1 person running Pulsar for the group, because 10% less total HP in one hit > a hit with Sap Essence. But yes I agree that Impulse is utter ***.
6. In terms of pure DPS or in terms of utility? In terms of DPS, Elemental Rage is probably the strongest magicka ultimate in the game. In terms of utility? Most certainly not. Still I'd use Elemental Rage over Soul Tether (which is only good in PvP and literally nothing else) for DPS.
7. Again this is not about replacing NB abilities with Destruction Staff abilities. Destruction Staff abilities are complimentary to class skills. The only must have destruction staff skill on a magicka DPS is Elemental Blockade. The best ability for a magicka spammable aside from Puncturing Sweeps and Whip is Force Pulse without a single doubt though.

Edit: Didn't see that Gil and Hedna already replied to this...

Did u see the storm version of the fire blockade? it doesnt get the damage buffs from the passives, but those 2 extra seconds on mobs is HUGE

And the increase in target area is huge too. What do you mean? Does storm blockade not get the penetration buff? I though they fixed it!