How much DPS as tank?

Autolycus

Dracane wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I am using 4 dots on my magicka sorc build for dps.
Because since shields got nerfed, you can't afford using active damage abilities anymore.

My single target dps is maybe 20k (against bosses I sometimes spam overload tho, then it goes up to 40k or so). But my aoe damage easily goes up to 100k or so, depening on how many enemies there.
And I think, this is very good for a tank. I can feel safe, because I know that in case my allies should die, I can still solo kill all mobs and bosses to prevent a wipe.

So in other words, a dps that sometimes taunts.

No. A tank that deals indirect damage. All the things I have mentioned are dots, that don't require active usage. You place them and they last for a while. So I can focus on tanking, but still dealing reasonable damage.

If you're pulling 20-40k as a tank then you are built like a dps. You are wearing dps gear (I'd wager 5/1/1 favoring light armor, probably TBS with thief and shadow, and not using Pierce Armor but Inner Rage instead), using predominantly dps skills with a taunt, and perhaps one or two other skills that may be considered utility. This means you are not building for utility like a true tank would, i.e. an ulti-regen 'war horn' build, or something to that effect. From this end of the table, you look like a dps with a taunt on your bar.

To be clear, I didn't say it was wrong to do this. Just stating it for what it is: a 3 dps group. In many cases, this is more efficient than a "traditional" group consisting of 1 tank, 1 healer, and 2 dps, but really that is entirely contingent upon the members of the group and their level of skill and gear quality.

Dracane

Autolycus wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I am using 4 dots on my magicka sorc build for dps.
Because since shields got nerfed, you can't afford using active damage abilities anymore.

My single target dps is maybe 20k (against bosses I sometimes spam overload tho, then it goes up to 40k or so). But my aoe damage easily goes up to 100k or so, depening on how many enemies there.
And I think, this is very good for a tank. I can feel safe, because I know that in case my allies should die, I can still solo kill all mobs and bosses to prevent a wipe.

So in other words, a dps that sometimes taunts.

No. A tank that deals indirect damage. All the things I have mentioned are dots, that don't require active usage. You place them and they last for a while. So I can focus on tanking, but still dealing reasonable damage.

If you're pulling 20-40k as a tank then you are built like a dps. You are wearing dps gear (I'd wager 5/1/1 favoring light armor, probably TBS with thief and shadow, and not using Pierce Armor but Inner Rage instead), using predominantly dps skills with a taunt, and perhaps one or two other skills that may be considered utility. This means you are not building for utility like a true tank would, i.e. an ulti-regen 'war horn' build, or something to that effect. From this end of the table, you look like a dps with a taunt on your bar.

To be clear, I didn't say it was wrong to do this. Just stating it for what it is: a 3 dps group. In many cases, this is more efficient than a "traditional" group consisting of 1 tank, 1 healer, and 2 dps, but really that is entirely contingent upon the members of the group and their level of skill and gear quality.

I am usually using warhorn, encase, inner fire and I think, that being able to deal lots of damage as a tank is the best utility a group can have.

I'm super successfull with it and I don't care what you wanna call it. I bet it's one of the best tank builds in existence.

WillhelmBlack

For vet dungeons anything from 5-25k, depends on your build!

hydrocynus

When I play with my regular mates where we understand each other I like to take the liberty to try do some damage but I let them know.

I play magika DK tank and with 1h&Shield I can pull off just shy of 8k single target on crem guards in WGT without ultimate and aoe up into the 50s if I use a banner on big trash groups. That is with 1h&s on both bars.

When playing in pug groups or with people I am not familiar with i usually afford them the respect they deserve and tank properly.

Autolycus

Dracane wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I am using 4 dots on my magicka sorc build for dps.
Because since shields got nerfed, you can't afford using active damage abilities anymore.

My single target dps is maybe 20k (against bosses I sometimes spam overload tho, then it goes up to 40k or so). But my aoe damage easily goes up to 100k or so, depening on how many enemies there.
And I think, this is very good for a tank. I can feel safe, because I know that in case my allies should die, I can still solo kill all mobs and bosses to prevent a wipe.

So in other words, a dps that sometimes taunts.

No. A tank that deals indirect damage. All the things I have mentioned are dots, that don't require active usage. You place them and they last for a while. So I can focus on tanking, but still dealing reasonable damage.

If you're pulling 20-40k as a tank then you are built like a dps. You are wearing dps gear (I'd wager 5/1/1 favoring light armor, probably TBS with thief and shadow, and not using Pierce Armor but Inner Rage instead), using predominantly dps skills with a taunt, and perhaps one or two other skills that may be considered utility. This means you are not building for utility like a true tank would, i.e. an ulti-regen 'war horn' build, or something to that effect. From this end of the table, you look like a dps with a taunt on your bar.

To be clear, I didn't say it was wrong to do this. Just stating it for what it is: a 3 dps group. In many cases, this is more efficient than a "traditional" group consisting of 1 tank, 1 healer, and 2 dps, but really that is entirely contingent upon the members of the group and their level of skill and gear quality.

I am usually using warhorn, encase, inner fire and I think, that being able to deal lots of damage as a tank is the best utility a group can have.

I'm super successfull with it and I don't care what you wanna call it. I bet it's one of the best tank builds in existence.

LOL

Like I said, there's nothing wrong with doing that for dungeons, and I'm sure it goes just fine.

Mush55

Sooner run with a tank that did 3k dps but did the job right than a 20k dps tank who hasn't got a clue and lets me take a beating, if the tank is doing the job right and the dps are up to the job it dosn't matter about low tank dps as the healer can focus on the tank and the dps can dps .

WarTurb

OP you got it wrong. Aggro, Warhorn uptime, selfsustain and offheals makes you a good tank. Go play solo with your no-utility poor DPS stam toon. ☺

heng14rwb17_ESO

I like tank and healer who can dps

WalksonGraves

DPS glory hogs have no place tanking or healing. You want to do damage play a dps, don't be a terrible group member because of your vanity.

Asardes

Healers can both heal and have good DPS because they take full advantage of LA passives and set bonuses - healing sets have spell damage, spell critical, max magicka bonuses - and they don't hold the aggro. If the group is good, the healer can just throw a HoT and DPS. But holding aggro, thus needing to block a lot, and wearing heavy armor gimps a tank hard.

Yamenstein

I honestly don't care how you tank - especially for vet dungeons - if you were tanking a trial run I would start a vote to kick you though.

At the end of the day though a tank that provides more support is a lot better for the actual dedicated dps than a tank that wants to add 6k dps =\

pizzaow

I think the best thing you could do is have 2 setups: offensive tank and defensive tank.

I run with a lot of pugs too, and feel your pain when the it takes 20 minutes to kill each boss. However, that's a lot different than running with talented players. Many of the replies are great advice for trials or when you have a great group.

If I go full offensive (while holding aggro), best case I'm doing ~20K DPS, but the healer has to spend a little more time on me. I've seen many pug DDs only do 5-10K DPS and it's totally worth it for me to go offensive. However, if you have players that can do 40K+ DPS, it's so much better to buff each of them 10-20% and allow the healer to do DPS.

With a good group the best team DPS is to allow each DD to keep their optimal rotation up, and increase that as much as possible by debuffing the boss and buffing them up. If a DPS has to chase down an add (that could be chained/taunted), it's going to cost much more than your 20K DPS. Instead, bring the add into 10K/s AOE and watch everything melt.

Now, if you're running pledges with pugs then slot hundings and wrecking blow away!

Usually, I start defensive and if the first trash mob and/or boss is painful then I might switch.

caperon

Asardes wrote: »

In practice it's actually very hard to tank and DPS really strong bosses or even some elite mobs in dungeons, because if you take aggro they will be all hitting you in the mug while you swap to back bar and do your DPS rotation. Because 1H+S bar should be taunt, CC, utility, shield/ward skills.

And I don't know how viable can a magicka tank be in some dungeons, not because of the blocking costs, but the costs of roll dodging, breaking fear/CC, interrupting and retaunting not only bosses, but also multiple adds. I run with 32.5K stamina and the Xal-Nur fight in VRoM leaves me gasping after that fear-enrage mechanic that needs to be interrupted and the boss re-taunted every ~15 seconds, also with 2-3 trolls and maybe some archers. Or the sludge slingers that need to be constantly bashed because they enrage every ~5 seconds, they never come alone also bringing their maul or S+B buddies who can one shot bash everyone, and also a few archers to make things more interesting. That's by far the hardest dungeon I've tanked, and I can't really imagine how you can do that with a magicka tank, or any tank that has less than 20K stamina.

I tanked all up to hard mode SO and offtanked vmol with a magicka DK dps with tanking gear (CP in magicka regen and magicka cost reduction) with 18.5k stamina and basically permablock. Lastly i switched to 5 alkosh, 5 hist, 5 bloodspawn and i run around with 22k hp, 22.5k stamina and 29k magicka no problem because lets be honest, dungeons are quite easy with a half decent group other than hm mazzatun. Im pretty sure i could use tava's favor and shufle (the tipical ult regen build) and be ok, most of the times you don't really need to block other than avoid the cc or the 1 shots.

About the topic, whatever. If you have decent players to play with, its much better for the group if you stick to control the fight and buf and debuf, the group just doesn't need any of your dps. I do like 2k single when tanking but I asure you i am constantly asked to tank any hm dungeons, dsa or even trials (most trial bosses are actually easier to tank than some dungeon). I like to agro, chain, interrupt and cc everything (DK works best for my taste in tanking), its not like you have that many cooldowns left to use dps skills.

pcar944

this is so funny now

I always prefer to have a legit tank, even more then legit healer, I understand importance of both

but in Normal pledges, having a tank is SO handy that can just take the adds and pull them together, rather then 3 DPS trying to outrun a mob and a boss chasing them while healer tries to heal them

with that said, everyone has their roles and should stick to them - but lets not forget that theres nothing wrong with adding more AOE and helping us DD's out - your shards and talons are GREAT contributers, pulling ranged adds with Chains is absolutely awesome and help me out a TON - but with PUG never know what tank is running, a lot of times I see other DPS focus on a whole mob and get hit with RANGED - so then I drop my AOE on the adds stacked on them - and focus on the RANGED adds with my "boss" rotation - while tank/heals just do their normal tanking and healing

Warhorn is important though, I joined a nHRC group in Wayrest, and the tank had 180CP, no warhorn except unmorphed lvv 1 warhorn you unlock with a skillpoint, I was the ONLY other person in this group who had a leveled Warhorn and I'm a DPS - so they asked me to slot it and use it for my ult

I love seeing Warhorn buffs come on at the worst times no matter the pledge, it gives me a little more resources and increases my damage

with everything said though, in Normal pledges I don't have a problem if all 4 are trying to DPS in one way or another, my DPS'ing normally is to LA mobs at range so they stack up, Wall of Elements, Twisting Path, and then spamming Sap - did a Normal ICP with a lvl 10 tank and lvl 25 DPS like this and we finished it with 2 deaths

all I'm saying is, experiment, but don't get mad if people talk *** to you or ask you wtf it is you are doing, that just means that somewhere they need you to do your thing as a Tank or a Healer and even if its just for a few seconds, it puts extra agro to my 18k health flimy DD that normally doesn't have a self heal or an o-***-shield

OrphanHelgen

Focus on keeping the boss still. Every time and I mean EVERY TIME I get a pug tank, no matter cp rank, they always have to "kite" the boss, and move out of endless hail, trap, standard of might etc.
Losing like 15k on that.

Gargath

Please tanks focus on tanking, healers on healing and dd on dpsing .
Recently I was playing dungeon as a healer with a tank having only 20k hp and some good dps - it was a hard experience to constantly keep this guy alive while he was rushing at every mobs thinking how powerful he is as a tank with good dps.
Imho such half-tanks can ruin a fun for healers and obviously who would they blame if they died - the healer.

mrowmrif2

Late to the game and you already marked it answered but compelled to weigh in...

As a stam dk trials tank, i have two answers for you... note: i really see no need to run a different gear set in pledges because the difference between more and less dps in your group is maybe 5 minutes in the dungeon... my guild groups are always speed runs anyway, so frankly idc about gearing for 4 man dungeons. If i am running randoms with pugs (god help me) i still dont bother changing my gear setup... i feel like then it might be even better an idea to turtle up because the fights might last longer and i might not get healing. I will move vigor onto my offbar for heroic slash, but that is about it. You simply cannot run dps skills in a vet trial where your focus is defense, crowd control and group support... so when i read this question i initially think "meh." But group dungeons do have a place in endgame, if only for farming items, so i wont be a toxic shitpig like the rest on these forums and dismiss it.

That said:

*In trials, i get like 2-3k dps where the focus is on defense and support...

*In group dungeons i get up to 4k or slightly more.

The chief difference (since i am literally running the same skill bars and armor setup) is i am not permablocking and instead weaving heroic slash or ransack between buffs and igneous.

As a NB magicka tank in a previous build, i managed around 7-9k dps in group dungeons. That was quite awhile ago though.

Erock25

People are nuts saying don't do dps as a tank. I run tava and dragonguard plus heroic slash on a stam sorc tank so I'm an aggressive warhorn battery and use swarm mother for my ghetto chains and I'm pulling 10-15k solo target with my dual wield off bar. Blood Craze, Blood thirst, Crit Surge and with Hurricane and Deadly Cloak running means lots of self healing while doing a good amount of dps. Even more dps if I run skoria instead of swarm mother.

failkiwib16_ESO

I don't really know how much tanks can put out of dps, however I've met tanks between 6k dps sustained and 46k dps sustained.
I play mainly as a healer, and often with low dps DD's who needs a carry, I often bring my tank friends who pull around 6k-9k dps on bosses, because they will be the main dps source aside from me.

Most of my tanks including healers and myself as a healer relax a bit, when we get grouped with high dps DD's, but we don't have that luxury with low dps DD's.... so we adjust, and sometimes I don't heal unless the tank needs healing, because its' easier to carry dead noobs in certain situations lol

clocksstoppe

If you ask "how much dps as tank", you definitely shouldn't be tanking.

Erock25

clocksstoppe wrote: »

If you ask "how much dps as tank", you definitely shouldn't be tanking.

In trials, sure. If you're not worried about your DPS as a vet dungeon tank, you're really not doing enough.