How much DPS as tank?

raasdal

For vet pledges, how much DPS should come from a good Tank?

Obviously some bosses requires different handling, not letting Tank do DPS. But most of them give you free play.

How much DPS does your Tank pull?

Vangy

What is this obsession about DPS..... Good tanks dont worry about their DPS... cos it makes no sense to. There's tons of other more important things for you to worry about.

1. Taunt important adds. If you are a DK, you should be chaining ranged adds to stack em.
2. Stack adds with proper positioning for AOE. *also applies to bosses. Ie: some bosses need to be face away.
3. Debuffs need to be applied to key targets.
4. Adds need to be CC'ed cos you cant possibly taunt everything
5. Know what to block and when to self heal so that your healer can spend more time DPS-ing and supporting group instead of babysitting ur HP pool.
6. Slot warhorn and spam dat *** at the right time so ur DPS and heals gets buffed.
7. + worry about tons of other mechanics that require your attention like in vDSA last boss etc.

Again, this might not seem like im answering your question.... but I am. If you want to be a good tank, worry about 1-7 and other stuff which I cant possibly list all down. You will learn more and more as you progress thru more and more difficult content. Like even gear sets need to be swapped around when ur tank. Like if group no ebon, you prolly need to run it. Some fights might be tons easier if you slot masters sword. Or maybe u can swap in/out some skills like harness magicka etc to make things even easier. As a tank you have a million and one things to worry about but none of those are about DPS.

On a sidenote tho, ive seen some magicka sorc/nb/DK tanks pull like 8-10k dps? Stam tanks are a lot more tanky and have a much easier time with self sustain but typically pull a lot less DPS. That being said tho, in most vet pledges, nothing is going to stop you from running 5/5 heavy hundings and whoop out a Greatsword and spamming Dizzying swing on boss assuming you only have 1 or 2 slots free on ur skill bar for DPS skills since u are a tank. You could pull like 15k deeps with that I think. Wont make u a good tank if u dont do the basics of tanking like taunting and positioning first.

WalksonGraves

Tank should not concern themselves with dps. Half the party is dedicated to that, you want to help play your role properly. A single dps skill is a wasted slot and resources better spent on taunting and mitigation. Make sure you run aggressive horn, boosting the party crit damage by 30% is far more than you can do yourself.

Banana

Shouldn't matter. That's not it's purpose

Liofa

Get to a point where your support is much more valuable than those ''DPS/Tank'' builds are doing . Only after that point you will understand that trying to do DPS as a tank is just a waste of time , money and effort .

raasdal

While i appreciate all the answers, i have to disagree with all of you. If you are unable to deal out at least minor DPS, while doing ALL the tasks of a Tank, in Vet Pledges, then you are not doing a very good job as Tank.

I run vet and normal pledges. Normal pledges (aside from current bugging difficulty) i dont even need to be in. Those can be run more efficiently by 3DD+Heal.

For the Vet Pledges, i can do point 1-7 mentioned by @Vangy and STILL have time and resources to spare for both DPS and offheals with Igneous and Vigor. I am NOT talking about vDSA or Trials. I am talking Vet Pledges. If a Tank in Vet Pledges are not doing any DPS - what the hell are they doing? Seriously?

Currently, my DK Tank is doing 6-10K DPS depending on setup and dungeon. I have 100% uptime on Claw, Noxious Breath and Rearming Trap. And Talons / Volatile Armor etc. Then i do LA/Ransack/Bash if i have resources and time. But mainly i just make sure to keep up all my DoTs all the time on main boss. That is it. And i still have both time and resources to handle everything in between, from taunting key mobs/adds, locking them down, chaining them in etc. etc. Only exception are certain bosses. For example, i will not DPS the miniboss in Blackheart that does the channel (the guy with all the birds first). I will just bash her to death, since i NEED to bash that channel, and she does it every 4 seconds or so. Another example is Nerieneth. Assuming we have enough DPS, i need to concern myself with tanking the Adds away from the damage and so on. But that is like 5-10% of the bosses. The rest have no mechanics that should mean that the Tank cant do any damage.

I would never considering going lower DPS than this on my Tank. Especially considering all the "bad" DPS out there. I have had several runs with Groupfinder (and from chat as well) where i would be doing just as much damage as the DPS guys. When i get a group with one DPS spamming hardcasted frags, i am really happy about being able to cover some of his lacking DPS.

WHY would you not run at least 3 good DoT's as Tank? I honestly don't get it. Below are my normal Bars (dual S/B)

Pierce Armor
Igneous
Vigor
Defensive Stance
FLEX SPOT (Rearming Trap normally / Chains / Invasion etc. for special mechanics)

Infectious Claw
Noxious Breath
Volatile Armor
Choking Talons
Shuffle

I could run Molten Weapons. But again - i run with Pugs. I assume they have ready setups that include Major Sorcery / Brutality. Aside from that, i dont really see what good support skills, should replace my DPS skills without being totally redundant / unnecessary.

Brrrofski

Getting warhorn every 45 or so seconds adds more damage. The extra damage it gives the other 3 members of your group far outshines what you can probably put out. When I tank on my Dk I don't need shard nor any healing. I just tank and manage recourses so healer is almost like a third dps. You're missing Heroic Slash which is an amazing tanking tool for a DK tank.

On my sap tank however, I do all that and pump out good damage. I have 35k magica, 2500 spell damage and 32% crit. I can hold full aggro and heal the group somewhat (sap, Funnel, path, Veil for less damage) while doing damage. Saptanks are criminally overlooked. Outsides of trials they outperform a stam dk tank by so much it's a joke.

A blazing Shield tank would kick out good dps. So would a magica Dk tank. Stam tanks don't tend to really. Unless they change gear for it. But your light atrack, ransack bash is going to hit for like 10k if lucky on average. With is nothing really for the amount of resource it takes. Just concentrate on resource management and keeping yourself healed and eternal healer add dps - they'll add more than you.

raasdal

Brrrofski wrote: »

Getting warhorn every 45 or so seconds adds more damage. The extra damage it gives the other 3 members of your group far outshines what you can probably put out. When I tank on my Dk I don't need shard nor any healing. I just tank and manage recourses so healer is almost like a third dps. You're missing Heroic Slash which is an amazing tanking tool for a DK tank.

On my sap tank however, I do all that and pump out good damage. I have 35k magica, 2500 spell damage and 32% crit. I can hold full aggro and heal the group somewhat (sap, Funnel, path, Veil for less damage) while doing damage. Saptanks are criminally overlooked. Outsides of trials they outperform a stam dk tank by so much it's a joke.

A blazing Shield tank would kick out good dps. So would a magica Dk tank. Stam tanks don't tend to really. Unless they change gear for it. But your light atrack, ransack bash is going to hit for like 10k if lucky on average. With is nothing really for the amount of resource it takes. Just concentrate on resource management and keeping yourself healed and eternal healer add dps - they'll add more than you.

Heroic Slash i do not use, since i already apply Minor Maim with Talons. And dont need to Snare bosses. So it would be for the Minor Heroism i guess. Could go for it. But honestly do not see any skill on my bars, i would go without in exchange for that.

Well, i am currently not running Warhorn. But i could. But again, you are assuming that the other group members are doing decent DPS (which they are not always). Multiplying bad numbers will still give bad numbers. I would still rather have my Banner to control the fight.

Also "When I tank on my Dk I don't need shard nor any healing. I just tank and manage recourses so healer is almost like a third dps" .. Firstly, i already do this. Healer dont need to concern himself about me very much. But who tells the Healer that? Mostly the healer will continue to do whatever they normally do - which only very rarely means that they do DPS.

I invite you to take your full turtle Tank build into groupfinder and enjoy a 2 hour pledge run.

Izaki

I hate it when tanks try to DPS in PUGs. First, they put out 0 DPS. Second, instead of doing their job, they try to DPS and end up messing the whole thing up (letting the boss move or letting an add get out of the stack or losing taunt), don't tell me that you're an exception because everyone stuffs up at some point even if its not your fault but lag or something else. Third, if they REALLY have nothing to do, they might as well throw in some off-heals, spam igneous shield to get some ulti for dat Warhorn and to help out with everyone's survivability.

raasdal

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

I hate it when tanks try to DPS in PUGs. First, they put out 0 DPS. Second, instead of doing their job, they try to DPS and end up messing the whole thing up (letting the boss move or letting an add get out of the stack or losing taunt), don't tell me that you're an exception because everyone stuffs up at some point even if its not your fault but lag or something else. Third, if they REALLY have nothing to do, they might as well throw in some off-heals, spam igneous shield to get some ulti for dat Warhorn and to help out with everyone's survivability.

As already mentioned i can output 6-10k. Than is more than 0, and in many cases the same / more than the DPS.

Also, yes i am apparently the exception. Or you run with really bad Tanks, who cant manage to put 3 DoT's on the boss in between handling all the Tank Duties.

Again, i am not talking about the Tank spamming a DPS skill. I am talking about intelligently weaving in DoTs and other DPS help, in between your duties as Tank.

Really surprised by the "Turtle Turtle" mentality?

Vangy

raasdal wrote: »

While i appreciate all the answers, i have to disagree with all of you. If you are unable to deal out at least minor DPS, while doing ALL the tasks of a Tank, in Vet Pledges, then you are not doing a very good job as Tank.

I run vet and normal pledges. Normal pledges (aside from current bugging difficulty) i dont even need to be in. Those can be run more efficiently by 3DD+Heal.

For the Vet Pledges, i can do point 1-7 mentioned by @Vangy and STILL have time and resources to spare for both DPS and offheals with Igneous and Vigor. I am NOT talking about vDSA or Trials. I am talking Vet Pledges. If a Tank in Vet Pledges are not doing any DPS - what the hell are they doing? Seriously?

Currently, my DK Tank is doing 6-10K DPS depending on setup and dungeon. I have 100% uptime on Claw, Noxious Breath and Rearming Trap. And Talons / Volatile Armor etc. Then i do LA/Ransack/Bash if i have resources and time. But mainly i just make sure to keep up all my DoTs all the time on main boss. That is it. And i still have both time and resources to handle everything in between, from taunting key mobs/adds, locking them down, chaining them in etc. etc. Only exception are certain bosses. For example, i will not DPS the miniboss in Blackheart that does the channel (the guy with all the birds first). I will just bash her to death, since i NEED to bash that channel, and she does it every 4 seconds or so. Another example is Nerieneth. Assuming we have enough DPS, i need to concern myself with tanking the Adds away from the damage and so on. But that is like 5-10% of the bosses. The rest have no mechanics that should mean that the Tank cant do any damage.

I would never considering going lower DPS than this on my Tank. Especially considering all the "bad" DPS out there. I have had several runs with Groupfinder (and from chat as well) where i would be doing just as much damage as the DPS guys. When i get a group with one DPS spamming hardcasted frags, i am really happy about being able to cover some of his lacking DPS.

WHY would you not run at least 3 good DoT's as Tank? I honestly don't get it. Below are my normal Bars (dual S/B)

Pierce Armor
Igneous
Vigor
Defensive Stance
FLEX SPOT (Rearming Trap normally / Chains / Invasion etc. for special mechanics)

Infectious Claw
Noxious Breath
Volatile Armor
Choking Talons
Shuffle

I could run Molten Weapons. But again - i run with Pugs. I assume they have ready setups that include Major Sorcery / Brutality. Aside from that, i dont really see what good support skills, should replace my DPS skills without being totally redundant / unnecessary.

Like i mentioned earlier, in most vet pledges u can wear 5/5 heavy hundings, taunt all adds, then swap to 2h and go full DPS and you will be fine as long as you keep boss on you and control add positioning at the same time.

As a DK tank there's a couple of things you can do that I find are more impt than doing DPS when your group is decent.

1. Chain ranged adds into to make life easier for your DPS. No reason not to run chains. Its one of the most class defining abilities for a DK tank be it pledges or trials or DSA.
2. Activate igneous shields once every 6 seconds to gain ult + give every1 major brutality.
3. Let your DPS know that you are running ingeous so that they dont have to refresh it during DPS parses every 20 seconds or so. It adds quite a bit of DPS when your tank is running the buff instead of you.
4. Use heroic slash once every 9 seconds to gain ult.
5. Pop vigor every 10 seconds or so to make sure ur healer can focus on buffing and dps instead of healing thru damage that dosent need his/her attention.

I mean if you are going to assume your group is complete trash than by all means you would do better just rolling SnB with full medium + 2h on back bar and pulling 20k deeps.

Your initial question was:

raasdal wrote: »

For vet pledges, how much DPS should come from a good Tank?

Obviously some bosses requires different handling, not letting Tank do DPS. But most of them give you free play.

How much DPS does your Tank pull?

The correct answer is no one cares. You didnt mention that you assume that group is trash and dosent deserve warhorn. You didnt mention your healer is noob and will only heal.... So i assumed you were running with a legit group that would rather you focus on ult gen and spam warhorns rather than try to do ur measly 6k-10k deeps. In a good group, warhorn is so much more useful than doing 10k deeps.... Legit deeps do like 35k. So u are barely adding 1/3 of a dps with 10k deeps.

Crom_CCCXVI

ZERO, you are a tank. - not a DPS in heavy armor which is what 95% of the community seems to call a tank

Brrrofski

Not everyone in a pug is a noob pulling zero dps, so not getting warhorn up is a dps loss overall as far as I'm concerned.

But anyway, I mainly pug with my saptank now as even if the group is terrible, I can solo a lot of stuff on it (valkyn from 60% with no platforms left, pre nerfs was a pretty good feeling). Don't have ways to measure dps on console, but for a tank, it pulls a hell of a lot. With a saptank I'm not scarifying anything to do that unlike a DK tank. Great ult gen anyway, self heal, self sustain and still sap and Swallow soul everything non stop.

Rune_Relic

Question.
Why have two toolbars for 2 different weapons if you were supposed to be limited to 1 role ?

You have to assume..
tank/tank
heal/heal
dps/dps
dps/tank
dps/heal
tank/heal
..are all supposed to be viable.
Indeed it is the only explanation for being able to heal on damage, damage on heal, damage on block, heal on block.

I think the OP is asking what a dps/tank should do and many are replying with what a tank/tank should do.

I guess the question should be is a heal/tank or dps/tank a legit tank.....or are tank/tank the only viable build to perform the role properly ?
In which case how much mitigation should be sacrificed for damage and still be able to play the role of 'tank'.

Brrrofski

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Question.
Why have two toolbars for 2 different weapons if you were supposed to be limited to 1 role ?

You have to assume..
tank/tank
heal/heal
dps/dps
dps/tank
dps/heal
tank/heal
..are all supposed to be viable.
Indeed it is the only explanation for being able to heal on damage, damage on heal, damage on block, heal on block.

I think the OP is asking what a dps/tank should do and many are replying with what a tank/tank should do.

I guess the question should be is a heal/tank or dps/tank a legit tank.....or are tank/tank the only viable build to perform the role properly ?
In which case how much mitigation should be sacrificed for damage and still be able to play the role of 'tank'.

No, he's asking how much dps people put out with their tank, however it is set up. Most stam DKs tanks (90% of tanks) spend their time gaining ult to buff everyone else's damage. So it's impossible to measure. But warhorn every 40 seconds is a big dps boost.

Asardes

Doesn't matter what's the DPS, but probably ~5-7K is what you will get just by doing heavy attacks, heroic slashes, and stacking various DoTs from your debuff & CC skills. You can also do a lot of DPS fast, for example a DK tank that throws a standard of might in a trash pack or even on a boss.

However, the tank isn't supposed to DPS though his indirect contribution can greatly increase the group DPS:
1) Debuffs: pierce armor, noxious breath, crusher enchantment on weapons, even more important now, when mobs have more resistance
2) Keeps aggro: the DDs can get their rotation going without being distracted, interrupted or hit by enemies
3) CC: pull mobs together (relentless grip), snare them (razor caltrops, cinder storm) or even root them (choking talons/restraining prison) - that allows them to be killed more efficiently by the DDs.
4) Buffing: ingenous weapons - saves a slot on the DD bar, and allows them to use another DPS skill instead of the buff, aggressive warhorn - huge buff to critical damage and stalwart guard - also a smaller buff to critical damage
5) Shielding: magma shell or barrier work great to keep people alive during intense AoE/trash pulls

Rearming trap on a tank is a waste of a good slot that can be used for a group utility skill. Why? Because a tank usually has low weapon/spell damage/critical due to the lack of bonuses from DPS set and medium/light armor passives. Rearming trap only buffs your critical damage, which is very small. Instead you could be buffing it for one of the DDs and keeping him safe with the aforementioned stalwart guard skill (support skill line from Alliance War).

Meowmeow13

Well let me start by saying that tanking most vet pledges is pretty boring, most can be done with no armour and only a sword and shield, so I can see why you'd want to pull more DPS to make things more interesting.

If you are often pugging and find yourself often in groups with low DPS then by all means, make a DD, slap a sword and shield on and you can can tank every vet dungeon with the possible exception on vROM and vCOS as I have not tried them with this method.

Easily you can pull 10-15k dps while turtling up and 20k if not.

However, If you are in a group with good dps, the absolute best thing you can do is make there dps higher. Run igneous weapons, chain stuff together, debuff everything you can and of course, use aggressive warhorn. A good Tava tank can spit out a warhorn every 50-60 seconds. Doing all this will easily boost the group dps by more then you applying some more dots.

So in answer to your question, if you're pugging and still managing to keep everything clumped up and debuffed then do as much damage as you want, it'll definitely make tanking more fun for you.

If you are tanking with a good group then practice seeing how much of an asset you can be to the group, if you get a good reputation as a tank, you'll never need to pug again. o>

Flameheart

To answer the question:

It does not matter as long there is:

-Taunting
-Warhorn
-Debuffs
-Other buffs
-Collecting and gathering adds, chaining of adds (in case of a DK)

Yes, people run pledges with 1 healer and 3 DDs and even with 4 DDs, but in the most cases just because there is no tank available (because they seem to be a part of the IUCN Red List of threatened species). Every mental sane DD who wants max out his dps, maybe even wants to test builds or wants to get achievements done, will tell you that, running a 4-men vet pledge with a tank is much more effective, coordinated and stressless to play.

Minute_Waltz

I am stam dk running 2 bloodspawn 5 alkosh 5 tava front bar and maelstrom bow back bar, can generally pull 10-15k single and 20k+ trash while buffing the group with horn and alkosh/crusher.

I don't necessarily agree with comments on tanks not worrying about dps, if you can hold aggro/self survive/buff and debuff the group, you can then try and add dps on top of it.

My main damage is from hail/pi/claw dots, along with pierce armor/heroic slash/alkosh synergy, and all of these dots can be applied to boss during phases blocking is not required. Its simply a tanking rotation which tank need to experiment and find out that work best for them.

Same with a healer in dungeon group, try and figure out a rotation where you can cast cb prayer on cooldown and constantly proccing spc while having dps rotation to go with it. It works wonders if you have a group of two good dpses and good tank and healer combining for 30k dps on top of that.

Asmael

3k DPS.

DDs don't complain about poor deeps when they get 95%+ warhorn uptime, even if the healer is going afk healing springs mode and doesn't even have warhorn slotted.

But that might be just me

Asardes

Tank/DPS hybrids work for normal dungeons, where mobs don't hit too hard and bosses go down easily. But I don't really see how you can go trough really taxing veteran dungeons like VICP, VCoS or VRoM without doing your tanking job 100% of the time. Try pulling that bow at the abomination or Xal-Nur and you'll be pushing daisies when he catches you during a bar swap.

Izaki

raasdal wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

I hate it when tanks try to DPS in PUGs. First, they put out 0 DPS. Second, instead of doing their job, they try to DPS and end up messing the whole thing up (letting the boss move or letting an add get out of the stack or losing taunt), don't tell me that you're an exception because everyone stuffs up at some point even if its not your fault but lag or something else. Third, if they REALLY have nothing to do, they might as well throw in some off-heals, spam igneous shield to get some ulti for dat Warhorn and to help out with everyone's survivability.

As already mentioned i can output 6-10k. Than is more than 0, and in many cases the same / more than the DPS.

Also, yes i am apparently the exception. Or you run with really bad Tanks, who cant manage to put 3 DoT's on the boss in between handling all the Tank Duties.

Again, i am not talking about the Tank spamming a DPS skill. I am talking about intelligently weaving in DoTs and other DPS help, in between your duties as Tank.

Really surprised by the "Turtle Turtle" mentality?

Oh yeah I run with horrible tanks that can barely tank all those trial hard modes... Really I mean they are so bad, they can't even put a few DoTs on the bosses, but hey give them some credit at least they don't die, its a good start, right? No I run with very good tanks who are very nice people actually.

Instead of thinking how to put out more DPS as a tank think how you can support your group more so that the DPS can do more DPS (which is their job to be honest). If you can prevent the DPS from dying all over the place, then even if they have the crappiest DPS on earth, you still will get through all the vet dungeons (maybe not the Shadow of the Hist ones).
DPS is not your job as a tank man... I agree DPS is a hard job to pull off right, but still as a stamina DK tank? You won't be doing much. You're pretty much wasting your stamina. If you were a sap-tank, a blazing-shield tank or a magicka DK? Hell yeah you could do some damage passively through tanking. Right now you're going out of your way to DPS while wasting your blocking resource. If a boss is going not to die and the group will wipe, its not an 6k extra DPS that will make the difference. If a boss is going to die, there's no need for an extra 6k DPS.

Asardes

In practice it's actually very hard to tank and DPS really strong bosses or even some elite mobs in dungeons, because if you take aggro they will be all hitting you in the mug while you swap to back bar and do your DPS rotation. Because 1H+S bar should be taunt, CC, utility, shield/ward skills.

And I don't know how viable can a magicka tank be in some dungeons, not because of the blocking costs, but the costs of roll dodging, breaking fear/CC, interrupting and retaunting not only bosses, but also multiple adds. I run with 32.5K stamina and the Xal-Nur fight in VRoM leaves me gasping after that fear-enrage mechanic that needs to be interrupted and the boss re-taunted every ~15 seconds, also with 2-3 trolls and maybe some archers. Or the sludge slingers that need to be constantly bashed because they enrage every ~5 seconds, they never come alone also bringing their maul or S+B buddies who can one shot bash everyone, and also a few archers to make things more interesting. That's by far the hardest dungeon I've tanked, and I can't really imagine how you can do that with a magicka tank, or any tank that has less than 20K stamina.

Autolycus

If your dps do their job, then you don't need to do it for them. Build as a tank. Tank like a tank.

If you want to speed up the runs and add challenge, then just do your dungeons with 3 dps.

WalksonGraves

Only thing a tank NEEDS is aggressive horn, taunt, high defense. If you aren't running horn you are failing your group.

WalksonGraves

Asardes wrote: »

In practice it's actually very hard to tank and DPS really strong bosses or even some elite mobs in dungeons, because if you take aggro they will be all hitting you in the mug while you swap to back bar and do your DPS rotation. Because 1H+S bar should be taunt, CC, utility, shield/ward skills.

And I don't know how viable can a magicka tank be in some dungeons, not because of the blocking costs, but the costs of roll dodging, breaking fear/CC, interrupting and retaunting not only bosses, but also multiple adds. I run with 32.5K stamina and the Xal-Nur fight in VRoM leaves me gasping after that fear-enrage mechanic that needs to be interrupted and the boss re-taunted every ~15 seconds, also with 2-3 trolls and maybe some archers. Or the sludge slingers that need to be constantly bashed because they enrage every ~5 seconds, they never come alone also bringing their maul or S+B buddies who can one shot bash everyone, and also a few archers to make things more interesting. That's by far the hardest dungeon I've tanked, and I can't really imagine how you can do that with a magicka tank, or any tank that has less than 20K stamina.

Easy, if all your skills are mag you only use stam for blocking and rolling. I just use 3x shield play to get the most out of my pool. I run 12k stam.

KingYogi415

Tank's need 2 real dps skills fire breath morph, and the 2 hander splash execute.

If you can't keep the dot up or have Stam to execute you are doing somthing wrong.

Dracane

I am using 4 dots on my magicka sorc build for dps.
Because since shields got nerfed, you can't afford using active damage abilities anymore.

My single target dps is maybe 20k (against bosses I sometimes spam overload tho, then it goes up to 40k or so). But my aoe damage easily goes up to 100k or so, depening on how many enemies there.
And I think, this is very good for a tank. I can feel safe, because I know that in case my allies should die, I can still solo kill all mobs and bosses to prevent a wipe.

serenity_painted

raasdal wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

I hate it when tanks try to DPS in PUGs. First, they put out 0 DPS. Second, instead of doing their job, they try to DPS and end up messing the whole thing up (letting the boss move or letting an add get out of the stack or losing taunt), don't tell me that you're an exception because everyone stuffs up at some point even if its not your fault but lag or something else. Third, if they REALLY have nothing to do, they might as well throw in some off-heals, spam igneous shield to get some ulti for dat Warhorn and to help out with everyone's survivability.

Really surprised by the "Turtle Turtle" mentality?

It's not a turtle mentality. It's a support mentality. Your job as a tank is to make sure other people do the most dps they can by grouping up/rooting mobs(stam dps get a 15% damage boost with DW skills, i.e Steel Tornado), buffing them and debuffing mobs. Also to make the healers job easier, if they don't need to spam heals 24/7 they have an easier time keeping people resources up and buffed while providing their on dps. If you aren't doing that then there's no point in half assing it, go full dps with a taunt or a S&B back bar if the dps in the PUG are incompetent. The only vet dungeons that need someone tanky is vCoS and RoM. The rest can be cleared by 3dps and a healer.

If you do have competent DPS, anything you can do to make their jobs easier will result in faster clears than a measly ~5kdps increase for yourself. If you can manage to slot some dps skills and can do your job as support i mentioned, then fine, by all means dps a bit.

Autolycus

Dracane wrote: »

I am using 4 dots on my magicka sorc build for dps.
Because since shields got nerfed, you can't afford using active damage abilities anymore.

My single target dps is maybe 20k (against bosses I sometimes spam overload tho, then it goes up to 40k or so). But my aoe damage easily goes up to 100k or so, depening on how many enemies there.
And I think, this is very good for a tank. I can feel safe, because I know that in case my allies should die, I can still solo kill all mobs and bosses to prevent a wipe.

So in other words, a dps that sometimes taunts.

Dracane

Autolycus wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I am using 4 dots on my magicka sorc build for dps.
Because since shields got nerfed, you can't afford using active damage abilities anymore.

My single target dps is maybe 20k (against bosses I sometimes spam overload tho, then it goes up to 40k or so). But my aoe damage easily goes up to 100k or so, depening on how many enemies there.
And I think, this is very good for a tank. I can feel safe, because I know that in case my allies should die, I can still solo kill all mobs and bosses to prevent a wipe.

So in other words, a dps that sometimes taunts.

No. A tank that deals indirect damage. All the things I have mentioned are dots, that don't require active usage. You place them and they last for a while. So I can focus on tanking, but still dealing reasonable damage.