Knights Errant

bovardjeff_ESO

great set.....but can the set please buff ALL aspects of using a shield? as it stands it only buffs the damage abilities but leaves spell reflect/absorb with nothing......could you please perhaps allow the set to increase bash damage or decrease its cost? or perhaps decrease shield skill costs? thank you

Farorin

Increased bash damage would be super desirable.

ArgoCye

Just no. S&B users have much to celebrate in this patch and it's not as if they have been in a bad place.

bovardjeff_ESO

@ArgoCye whats your argument? its only one select build that i have seen and yes we have been in a bad place currently if your not using black rose you might as well not play but i refuse to use such a set.
Using a shield in combat is part of a sword and board build. shields arnt just walls they are weapons as well makes sense for smacking you in the face to do something more especially cause now i cant use it to interuppt players

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

There are glyphs to increase the bash strength I believe, and there are glyphs to decrease the cost of bashing, use them. There are also passives in the S/b line that do this as well.


What you are asking for is an increase in damage to an incredibly effective defensive skill line. I don't like this idea, if you want to do more damage, use two hander or duals.

Savos_Saren

I still have yet to find a use for Power Bash. There's so many other skills to slot. As for absorb magic- I think that's mainly a PVE skill with a small application to PVP if you're trying to avoid magicka shots from keeps. Regardless- one would be better suited with the Light Armor ability "harness magicka" for that, anyway.

Knight's Errant is a beautiful set if you combine it with a Master Sword and Tremorscale... but there's really no Four-Piece set to compliment that. Any set, actually, is fine... but, if you're a DK, I'd suggest:


-5pc Knight's Errant
-1 Master Sword
-2 Tremorscale
-4 Clever Alchemist


Please let me know if you can think of a better combo for PVP.

Alucardo

For starters, S+B builds should not have weapon damage sets in the first place. No, this set does not need a freaking buff

bovardjeff_ESO

wow such hostility , @Lightspeedflashb14_ESO for one using 7 heavy armor peices it is hard to maintain my resources so i am pretty much required to use at minimum 2 of my jewlery enchants for regeneration. so no those jewlery enchantments are not really available. My cp is already maxed out so i cannot just add more to regens there.
@Alucardo WHY THE HELL NOT? our abilties are already some of the lightest hitting attacks. it is a weapon so i think we SHOULD get some weapon damage if not directly to our abilities but to our blocking or bashing

bovardjeff_ESO

as it stands BASHING is very weak. the heavy bash skill is MEH at best especially since they removed the disorient only god knows why. NOT only do i use stamina to bash but i have to use block at the same time which stops any stamina regeneration. so i think tanks are entitled to some compensation for the lack of effectivness when it comes to use bash as the costs far outweigh the benefits as it stands right now.
DISCLAIMER: please keep it in mind I AM NOT asking for how it was at game launch where i could bash somone to death in seconds. i just want bashing to have a use again against players.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

bovardjeff_ESO wrote: »

wow such hostility , @Lightspeedflashb14_ESO for one using 7 heavy armor peices it is hard to maintain my resources so i am pretty much required to use at minimum 2 of my jewlery enchants for regeneration. so no those jewlery enchantments are not really available. My cp is already maxed out so i cannot just add more to regens there.

If you are wearing 7 heavy, you are a tank. There is no reason that a tank needs damage. This is not hostile to say, this is a fact. If you want more passive regen and cost reduction, use the other armors.

The way you regen mana/stam as a tank is getting hit or doing heavy attacks, which gets you 50% more resources back then in other armor. So if you are using regen glyphs on your jewelry, you are tanking wrong.

code65536

Sword-and-shield is defensive. It's supposed to be defensive. Trying to shoehorn it into an offensive role is already an aberration. Sets like this and Black Rose are harmful for game balance because it means people can reap the defensive advantages of heavy armor and sword-and-shield while shrugging off the downsides.

If you want to be offensive, use offensive weapons and medium armor. If you want to be defensive, use sword-and-shield and heavy armor. Adding defensive buffs to dual-wield and medium armor makes no sense, and neither does adding offensive buffs to 1HS and heavy.

Brutusmax1mus

Get off the mind set of heavy is for taking only...

You can "tank" everything but vet trials with a light armor sorc...

To the OP, personally i think bash should be weak. You're just getting hit with a shield. As it stands it actually does pretty decent damage too considering its own global cooldown from skills.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Get off the mind set of heavy is for taking only...

You can "tank" everything but vet trials with a light armor sorc...

To the OP, personally i think bash should be weak. You're just getting hit with a shield. As it stands it actually does pretty decent damage too considering its own global cooldown from skills.

For damage dealing or even healing in PvE, you can not wear heavy. Therefore IS only for tanking. That is the way it is designed.

Brutusmax1mus

Oh for pve sure, youre totally gimping yourself being in heavy. Is this about pve? Why would a tank be bash spamming and not taunt and blocking?

psychotic13

Heavy isn't strictly for tanks, get over yourself lol.

bigted209

I run 5 heavy on all of my stam dps characters and on my magDK. Damage output is quite fine, and I run in to next to no resource management issues. Haven't got black rose on anything. It is completely viable in pve and pvp, up to and including vet trials. I suggest mastering your characters play style and strengths/weaknesses before screaming that the sky is falling. Is there perceived imbalance in the game...yeah there is. But it's not as if you simply can not win unless you use these "problematic" sets and builds.

Brutusmax1mus

Sure you can wear heavy on pve, competing the task is the important thing no matter how long it takes. But competitively, heavy in pve is not the way to go for vet trial damage dealers. In pvp heavy armor is great for dd especially those without healers.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Sure you can wear heavy on pve, competing the task is the important thing no matter how long it takes. But competitively, heavy in pve is not the way to go for vet trial damage dealers. In pvp heavy armor is great for dd especially those without healers.

I disagree with this, I do not want to spend an extra 15 minutes on a boss because a DPS wants to be a special snowflake. My time means something to me. I optimize my build and the bare minimum that I expect from a DPS, when I am tank or the healer, is to wear the appropriate 5 piece armor for the type of damage they do. There is simply no need for a dps in pve to not wear light if they are magic and medium if they are stam. Most of the time this is not a problem, i would say 85% of the people that play this game get this concept.

but on the topic at hand, sure, if they made this set just for pvp, I can understand the want to buff it, it is just a crappy set for pve. there are much more useful sets to use, even for a dps that wants to wear heavy armor. there are no good dps abilities for pve in the S/B skill line.

now if you're playing by yourself, this set would be great, your taunt and heroic slash, heal you, which if you're wearing heavy, you might have a problem with.

bigted209

Perhaps I should have specified that I run heavy as a vet trial dps. By no means a special snowflake, and by no means am I a time problem. I'm a console player, so no access to read outs and after action run downs, so what we have is the blood spawn test. My personal best, 53 seconds. Perhaps not record breaking, but considering the majority of trials guilds I've come in to contact with have a dps test maximum of 1:10-1:20, I've got no complaints from those I run with. In addition, added survivability has more than a few times been the deciding factor in a wipe or a save. What it really comes down to is the prowess of the character's pilot. Like all things in life, we have our preferences, and often times they are at cross purpose with others with whom we come in to contact. I've run my stam sorc in 7 medium before, in truth, the difference was certainly not night and day as many believe.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

bigted209 wrote: »

Perhaps I should have specified that I run heavy as a vet trial dps.

yes you ought to of.

[SNIP]

and by no means am I a time problem.

yes you are.

I'm a console player, so no access to read outs and after action run downs, so what we have is the blood spawn test. My personal best, 53 seconds. Perhaps not record breaking, but considering the majority of trials guilds I've come in to contact with have a dps test maximum of 1:10-1:20, I've got no complaints from those I run with.

now if what you is true, you got 29k dps in the blood spawn test, pre One patch (1.563.180/53), I find this very hard to believe, as most of the thread that i have read put stam sorcs at 70 secs. unbuffed, you must of had a lot of group buffs going. regardless, the groups survivability iin trail is on the tank and the healers, if you need to wear heavy for trials to get more survivability, you are playing with bad tanks and healers. you prolly had no complaints becuase there was some really good dps that was carrying you as well.

In addition, added survivability has more than a few times been the deciding factor in a wipe or a save. What it really comes down to is the prowess of the character's pilot.

yes it comes down to the player a lot, but there are way to improve once you gt to that wall, in the game at least, and the simplest is wearing the armor that best suits the role you have chosen. there are way to add to your survivability without gimping your dps, like harness magic for mana users, or shuffle for stam.

Like all things in life, we have our preferences, and often times they are at cross purpose with others with whom we come in to contact. I've run my stam sorc in 7 medium before, in truth, the difference was certainly not night and day as many believe.

night and day? are you expecting like a 100% increase in dps? no, it is more along the lines of 10-15% increase, at endgame that means going from 30k to 37k sdps, just by wearing the armor that is best suited tot he role you have chosen.



all in all, you are right, you can do whatever you want int he game but there are clear way to get every single percentage out of the riloe that you have chosen.

[Edited for baiting]

bovardjeff_ESO

@Brutusmax1mus read my last comment i explitcitly stated i DID NOT want to return to the time when tanks would smash down enemies with bashing alone. I just want bash to have a use in PVP as currently it really has none. The skills are lackluster at best (shield skills) not including the sword ones included in the skill line.
@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO DUDE heavy isnt just for tanking THAT SAID yes i am a tank i didnt say i want to be a dps HOWEVER, playing pvp does require some level of dps.
adding something to block would give more incentive to use it. currently as stated PLAYER ENEMIES are pretty much immune to any natural CC i.e interupts via bash. 2 hand had some skills that could be interupted but they have since been made immune to that. and spells still have such skills HOWEVER, they are ranged skills so your not usually able to immediatly bash them down.

bovardjeff_ESO

as such the knights errant armor is a good set already i just wanted something extra.
Please keep in mind i never wanted tanks to be good at dps as well but considering many dps classes now have enough survival they can rival some tanks survival levels perhaps tanks SHOULD have more dps to compensate

Gargath

What bothers me more is that Knight Erran't Mail Jewellery in Purple is available only from veteran Blackheart Haven dungeon and that this set is bind on pickup. I'd like this set to be available on sales in guild stores. I need jewellery for my tank (which already use Master Sword) and can pay very well, but don't feel comfortable to do this dungeon in vet mode multiple times to score a single purple jewellery - if I'm lucky enough.

bovardjeff_ESO

@Gargath ACTUALLY the set itself has a ring that is a boss drop ring (pillagers ring) that peice doesnt adhere to the boss drop rules so its acutally easy to get the jewlery

bovardjeff_ESO

and keep in mind the dungeons still have 2-3 treasure chests per dungeon run which can drop ANY set peice it was acutally very easy for me to get the full set though i havent gotten any weapons just get people who will give you any good set peices they may pick up

Alucardo

Gargath wrote: »

What bothers me more is that Knight Erran't Mail Jewellery in Purple is available only from veteran Blackheart Haven dungeon and that this set is bind on pickup. I'd like this set to be available on sales in guild stores. I need jewellery for my tank (which already use Master Sword) and can pay very well, but don't feel comfortable to do this dungeon in vet mode multiple times to score a single purple jewellery - if I'm lucky enough.

Remember that stuff can be traded with group members. So if you go in there with 4 people, that's 4 chances every drop (assuming they are ok with trading you)

bovardjeff_ESO

i dont give credence to that though most end up with prosperous or another bad trait lol

Anti_Virus

Alucardo wrote: »

For starters, S+B builds should not have weapon damage sets in the first place. No, this set does not need a freaking buff

Flawed logic here, you can tank in light armor and still deal tons of dps so why should SnB get a heavy penalty?

Sword and Shield is a weapon first and defensive second it should have dmg properties

Vythri

I for one would love to have a *** ton of armor, a *** ton of health, a *** ton of sustain, and be able to kill everything. Why can't I do that?

bovardjeff_ESO

killing everything is never the goal. but there is an issue when a tank cant deal enough dps to kill one ganker who by all logic should be less defensive if they have enough damage to kill said tank.
dps have far more defence than they should yet tanks are gimped.

Brutusmax1mus

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Sure you can wear heavy on pve, competing the task is the important thing no matter how long it takes. But competitively, heavy in pve is not the way to go for vet trial damage dealers. In pvp heavy armor is great for dd especially those without healers.

I disagree with this, I do not want to spend an extra 15 minutes on a boss because a DPS wants to be a special snowflake. My time means something to me. I optimize my build and the bare minimum that I expect from a DPS, when I am tank or the healer, is to wear the appropriate 5 piece armor for the type of damage they do. There is simply no need for a dps in pve to not wear light if they are magic and medium if they are stam. Most of the time this is not a problem, i would say 85% of the people that play this game get this concept.

but on the topic at hand, sure, if they made this set just for pvp, I can understand the want to buff it, it is just a crappy set for pve. there are much more useful sets to use, even for a dps that wants to wear heavy armor. there are no good dps abilities for pve in the S/B skill line.

now if you're playing by yourself, this set would be great, your taunt and heroic slash, heal you, which if you're wearing heavy, you might have a problem with.

I agree, but if they can't get it done one way, better the other.

This set is fun for pve solo content. Imperial, KE, Master sword, tremorscale is unbelievable for solo. When imperial procs that's about 6k health back. I'm not sure if any of that can crit either. Most did can do it faster though.