Elder proccs online, please end it. (vid)

dsalter

notice an insane amount of abuse pro usage of animation cancelling helps proc things even more as well as spam out even higher damage in bursts

Bashev

Time to kill is lower than 1.6. ZoS what did you do again?

raglau

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

Not everybody just runs in zergs though, and even those who do experience substantially more dynamic experiences than in PVE content where the AI is programmed to do just about the same thing every single time. You are drastically oversimplfying PVP in this game with claims that it isn't dynamic, that the group with larger numbers always wins, its a click fest, etc. Sure, if you don't really know what you're doing, it may feel that way, and the proc sets do bring it closer to your

That's a fair point, there are individual ways to play inside the whole. I guess I am taking something of a 20,000 foot view and thinking about these games in general and how this always turns out; an experience that seems to get ever more uniform and dilute over time.

The game is basically a maths engine and some maths gives better outcomes than others. Over time, as people get used to the game, you get the meta and the cookie-cutter builds. Most people will run these as its something of an arms race, and if you don't, usually your odds of remaining competitive drop off sharply in the face of a mass of such builds. Sometimes other players will even penalise you for not running them, "bro, you can't run x without y skill". In the face of this, when someone discovers a build or ability that raises a config above the current landscape, people usually cry 'foul, nerf nerf nerf, not fair!!'. The developer, being as their desire is as many people as possible playing the game to get £££ rolling in, eventually capitulate and we just have this downward tendency to uniformity.

So whilst I do see why people might complain about proc-sets - I personally find them a bit gimmicky - I also think that the first port of call should be to determine how to counter that set using current in-game solutions, such as one person above me said, instead people just do the equivalent of, "teacher, it's not fair, that big boy took my toys, I need to think about how to play with something else. I don't like to think".

Sure, forums are not the best place to see how people are really responding, as real players are in game defining and testing how to counter a new config, not posting on forums. But the point still stands as a whole; there is far too much crying and not enough playing when these changes occur.

Lava_Croft

The issue is that a lot of people don't desire to work with these new proc sets, no matter if there are valid counters.

ClockworkArc

I was disheartened by seeing these types of builds pop up...but then I threw on the new Iceheart set and now my Magicka Sorc just laughs. Seriously, everytime my proc set procs, I can absorb two of their procs. GG.

SlayerTheDragon

The only skill left in the game now is:



RNG

raglau

Lava_Croft wrote: »

The issue is that a lot of people don't desire to work with these new proc sets, no matter if there are valid counters.

Well quite. And those people seem to think their 'like/dislike' is more important than others'. The argument presented here is essentially, 'I play PVP, and that is the real game, I don't desire to work with proc-sets and therefore they must be removed. Anyone who plays PvE is engaged in a lesser game and therefore their voice is invalid.' Which is simply banal.

I did not like the fact I had to do PvP to get some skills I wanted for PvE, turned out I really enjoyed PvP and I was so glad the devs made the decision to carrot and stick me down that road.

None of us can have the game custom designed to be specifically as we think is fair or 'right' and its probably not in the game's long-term interests to even kow-tow to that sort of limited thinking even for a second.

dsalter

ClockworkArc wrote: »

I was disheartened by seeing these types of builds pop up...but then I threw on the new Iceheart set and now my Magicka Sorc just laughs. Seriously, everytime my proc set procs, I can absorb two of their procs. GG.

you must be fighting bad stats on those proccers then because if they proc right you'll be hit with a huge burst of up to 40k.

unless your shields are in the 20k range theres no way you'd live.

Alucardo

DKsUnite wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Why does EVERY SINGLE pvp video for any game ever have garbage music? Seriously it's like they try hard to pick the worst music available.

@clocksstoppe
I take offense to that

@DKsUnite I freaking love your music man. When Song of Exile came on during the "We Were The Champions" video I swear to god I nearly cried like a baby. "We will go home across the mountains" :'(

Lava_Croft

Pibbles wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

The issue is that a lot of people don't desire to work with these new proc sets, no matter if there are valid counters.

Well quite. And those people seem to think their 'like/dislike' is more important than others'. The argument presented here is essentially, 'I play PVP, and that is the real game, I don't desire to work with proc-sets and therefore they must be removed. Anyone who plays PvE is engaged in a lesser game and therefore their voice is invalid.' Which is simply banal.

I did not like the fact I had to do PvP to get some skills I wanted for PvE, turned out I really enjoyed PvP and I was so glad the devs made the decision to carrot and stick me down that road.

None of us can have the game custom designed to be specifically as we think is fair or 'right' and its probably not in the game's long-term interests to even kow-tow to that sort of limited thinking even for a second.

These constant attempts at creating a schism between PvE and PvP are a bit pathetic. The dislike of proc gear is not related to what content you play. Proc gear lowers the skill ceiling even further for a game that's already laughably shallow and that's the problem most people I speak to have with it.

The game never needed this kind of gear.

raglau

Lava_Croft wrote: »

These constant attempts at creating a schism between PvE and PvP are a bit pathetic. The dislike of proc gear is not related to what content you play. Proc gear lowers the skill ceiling even further for a game that's already laughably shallow and that's the problem most people I speak to have with it.

The game never needed this kind of gear.

Just as well I am not attempting to create such a schism then. As I've already said, I am a PvE and PvP player and I personally find the proc sets rather gimmicky. I am merely pointing out the core argument presented here is rather weak.

MLRPZ

Add global cooldown to procs. you can have a proc each 10 seconds not more

RajinPVP

Yeah please nerf proc sets! 12 of us trying to kill this one guy but he kill one of our group member in one shot! Thats crazy! That shouldnt happen therefor nerf the proc sets pls tnx.

olsborg

MLRPZ wrote: »

Add global cooldown to procs. you can have a proc each 10 seconds not more

I would also like a solution like this, altho 10s might be a bit long, but using 3x sets wich can all procc within the same second is BS.

Knootewoot

Pibbles wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

These constant attempts at creating a schism between PvE and PvP are a bit pathetic. The dislike of proc gear is not related to what content you play. Proc gear lowers the skill ceiling even further for a game that's already laughably shallow and that's the problem most people I speak to have with it.

The game never needed this kind of gear.

Just as well I am not attempting to create such a schism then. As I've already said, I am a PvE and PvP player and I personally find the proc sets rather gimmicky. I am merely pointing out the core argument presented here is rather weak.

Proc sets should have the 5th gear bonus disabled in PvP. They are also cause of part of the lag. And it's dumb.

raglau

Knootewoot wrote: »

Pibbles wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

These constant attempts at creating a schism between PvE and PvP are a bit pathetic. The dislike of proc gear is not related to what content you play. Proc gear lowers the skill ceiling even further for a game that's already laughably shallow and that's the problem most people I speak to have with it.

The game never needed this kind of gear.

Just as well I am not attempting to create such a schism then. As I've already said, I am a PvE and PvP player and I personally find the proc sets rather gimmicky. I am merely pointing out the core argument presented here is rather weak.

Proc sets should have the 5th gear bonus disabled in PvP.

That's not a bad solution to the main thrust of the complaint. The requirements of PvP and PvE are very different. A lot of PvE is about RP and a fun factor, and the proc-sets serve that in some way. Wholesale nerfing the sets or removing them will alienate those players, there needs to be categorisation, such as you suggest.

Trying to make all sets be all things to all men in terms of both PvE and PvP is like putting a square peg in a round hole.

Lieblingsjunge

Yeh, the proc sets are pretty silly.
However, I find it quite amusing when proc-sets-users /w me and QQ's about my 28k HP, 'cus their combo doesn't kill me. I mean, they're the reason people build tanky af. :c

Anti_Virus

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

Pibbles wrote: »

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

Pibbles wrote: »

What's that sound? Ah, that's the oft heard sound of a bunch of PvP players thinking they are the centre of the ESO universe.

What's that sound? Ah, that's the oft heard sound of a PVE player who has never had to fight a dynamic enemy so is completely ignorant of the current state of balance in the game.

I actually enjoy playing both PvE and PvP in ESO. PvP is not really dynamic, it's mainly a case of 'he who is in the largest zerg, wins'. I do have fun playing PvP in ESO, but it's not exactly going to win 'tactically dynamic PvP experience of the year' award, if such an award exists. It's like a computerised version of the board game 'Risk'. Got more yellow plastic cannons on the map than blue? Yellow wins.

I think that's why I struggle when I see some of my fellow PvPers getting so precious over it, like with these proc sets. Yes, there is something of a point there, but let's be honest, it's not exactly a finely tuned piece of tactical engineering as it is, it's just a click fest (as is PvE).

Not everybody just runs in zergs though, and even those who do experience substantially more dynamic experiences than in PVE content where the AI is programmed to do just about the same thing every single time. You are drastically oversimplfying PVP in this game with claims that it isn't dynamic, that the group with larger numbers always wins, its a click fest, etc. Sure, if you don't really know what you're doing, it may feel that way, and the proc sets do bring it closer to your description, but any experienced PVPer will know that there is much more to it than that, and honestly, the things that do remove the aspects of dynamic battles from the game are the very things you seem to be defending that PVP players are complaining about.

Lol I enjoy pvp in MMOs but in this game its an absolute joke.

Champion points allows for extreme power creep, damage is way to high and tanking is way to high and there is no resource management, everyone uses the exact same gear and uses the exact same skills,

Some players build to be an immortal tank or a oneshot bot. I would agree in pre 1.5 before CP but now PVP is not skilled at all its whoever has the highest WD/SD and who can one shot who first and if you are in a zerg, well it's who can spam AoEs better.

dsalter

olsborg wrote: »

MLRPZ wrote: »

Add global cooldown to procs. you can have a proc each 10 seconds not more

I would also like a solution like this, altho 10s might be a bit long, but using 3x sets wich can all procc within the same second is BS.

made this suggestion just after PTS release. tho with a 2 second CD so multiple cannot proc within 2 seconds of eachother. same for buff sets. buff procs cant happen 2 seconds between eachother

Derra

Implement a global cooldown in battlespirit that prevents any different proccs from firing for 5s after one offensive (dmging) item set procced (same set still has the normal cooldown so kragh/viper/tremorscale alone won´t be affected - just multiprocc setups get eliminated).

Done.

eaton68_ESO

Derra wrote: »

Implement a global cooldown in battlespirit that prevents any different proccs from firing for 5s after one offensive (dmging) item set procced (same set still has the normal cooldown so kragh/viper/tremorscale alone won´t be affected - just multiprocc setups get eliminated).

Done.

How would keeping track of all this affect the lag? /shrug
I think I like the 'disabling all 5pc proc/bonuses in pvp' idea. r.i.p. vicious death, but oh well

Lucious90

I like the idea of the 5th armor set bonus being taken out for procs. Though I feel doing separate pvp armor and weapon sets would also help mitigate that. Putting a cool down helps, but in cyro putting in another algorithm to check to see if a set procs on everyone to load a global CD on them, could be problematic on the server side (see #lightpatchgate).

Let people who enjoy PvE and RP keep their sets that proc, introduce pvp specific armor sets, and remember this is a MMO

Code2501

I'm kind of conflicted...

After 2 years, the visual impact of combat is starting to wear. I've been seeing more or less the same animations and effects since launch, and in 2 years I've rarely been offered a new ability for my characters to chose that they didn't have available at launch. They could fix this by continuing to add more skills, like the weapon ultimate's maybe even minor/sub-classes. Or even actually deliver on the spell crafting they started designing over a year ago. But, in the absence of actually evolving the game, I like that the sets are adding new visual effects to players combat. Its better than nothing to start seeing some new effects being generated by your characters actions, albeit indirectly from the gear your wearing and random chance.

But I also have an inherent dislike for random effects, particularly when several procs can be combined into lucky spike damage. In the extreme it minimizes the impact of player action to that of just surviving and waiting for a combo to proc. Situational damage bonuses like flanking bonus damage are one thing, you have to actively try to flank, and an enemy can try to prevent being flanked, but random bursts that require nothing more than button spamming are lazy design and distance the player from the action-effect feel of playing. Heck if they take this to the extreme it just becomes a slot machine where your gratification is coming from luck rather than intent.

Dracane

I will never understand, why stamina gets so many broken and easy proc sets over and over again.
And magicka has nothing of that kind. But honestly, such sets should never exist.

Wollust

Dracane wrote: »

I will never understand, why stamina gets so many broken and easy proc sets over and over again.
And magicka has nothing of that kind. But honestly, such sets should never exist.

I agree. Sets like Valkyn Skoria or Winterborn are fine because they have a rather low proc chance with special requirements. But sets like viper and tremor scale are just ***.

Alcast

Wollust wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I will never understand, why stamina gets so many broken and easy proc sets over and over again.
And magicka has nothing of that kind. But honestly, such sets should never exist.

I agree. Sets like Valkyn Skoria or Winterborn are fine because they have a rather low proc chance with special requirements. But sets like viper and tremor scale are just ***.

Storm knight

Zypheran

I like the new sets as a PVE'er but I think the issues for PVP are very valid. If ZOS does nerf the new proc sets can I just ask that they refund us any gold tempers spent on nerfed sets.

olsborg

Zypheran wrote: »

I like the new sets as a PVE'er but I think the issues for PVP are very valid. If ZOS does nerf the new proc sets can I just ask that they refund us any gold tempers spent on nerfed sets.

Dunno if they could only nerf it in cyrodiil, tie it in with battlespirit or something so it gets a cooldown only in cyrodiil, that would be the best imo. But something definately needs to be done because the proccs is outta control in cyrodiil, instant 20k dmg is pretty easy to achieve now with combining 3x proccs. Pretty ridiculous.

Bobby_V_Rockit

Ugh, they should just restrict proc sets to one ranged proc in PvP. PvP is cancer to PvE (i.e. The actual game) when players *** and moan about how OP sets are.

Maybe PvP should just learn to deal with it rather than demanding more nerfs yet again.

Solus

olsborg wrote: »

With all the new sets and whatnot, the meta of today is more cancerous then its ever been, procc this and procc that, skill is basicly out the window. This needs to end imo. Something like a 4 or 5 second global cooldown on all sets that has a procc would be a completely fine solution in my opinion. Please discuss.

Just a vid showing a perfect example of what the meta is today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN3IdgssMwo

SypherPK is a beast.

I like this honestly. Keep on keeping on ZOS