Should Non-DLC Vet Dungeons (w/Scroll) Be Doable at CR160 in 1T? My Spindleclutch Experience.

Peekachu99

A lot of the new DPS sets I mentioned are available as OVERLAND drops and in delves. I don't think it's unreasonable for "middle-tier" players to actually pay attention to simple combat effeiciency and work on things like easy to acquire gear from middling PVE before expecting to complete the most challenging content the game can offfer.

Whereas the true min-maxxers will look beyond simple borderline effectiveness toward "melting" stuff. There's nothing unreasonable or exclusionary about my post. It's been a week--hasn't even launched on console. Give the game time to see what's balanced and what isn't as loot passes into players' hands.

Peekachu99

Oh and the Spindle boss spit attack is dodgeable, you just have to actually WATCH the boss for her tell. Like any random target spell, she will TURN to the player before she does it. Pretty easy to see who/ where it's gonna go. Roll and youre fine.

Artis

Pandorii wrote: »

If they're not doable by decently geared/decently skilled cr 160 players they're setting up a lot of players for a bad time. [/b]-

But they are doable by decently geared and skilled cp160 players...

I think you confuse what defines what. That's how you know if players are decently geared and skilled - if they can do content they are. You can't define decent gear and skills in vacuum, they are defined via the content a player can complete.

In your particular case it's a "decently skilled " part that is arguable. All you needed to do is roll dodge that attack and take 0 damage from it instead of being oneshot. I don't know about your gear, might be good or bad, but you definitely could do better in that fight in terms of applying your skill.


Look at it this way. It's good that you got embarrassed. That's a motivator to move forward and get better. Instead of whining, realize that other people do complete that dungeon. Turns out you are not as decently skilled as you thought you were, you are behind the curve. So what did you do wrong and what can you fix to become better? Answer this question, apply it - and it will make you a better player (in this case will teach you to roll dodge).

Pandorii

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Oh and the Spindle boss spit attack is dodgeable, you just have to actually WATCH the boss for her tell. Like any random target spell, she will TURN to the player before she does it. Pretty easy to see who/ where it's gonna go. Roll and youre fine.

It looked more like an orb than spit attack. I'll have to put myself in that position again to see if it can be dodge-rolled. I think it'll be kinda hard to see the tell sometimes if the flash mechanic lines up at the wrong time. You can't see anything during those 2 seconds, much less a tell (unless that is tell). My group mates who were all at cap or near it weren't dodge rolling, that's for sure. They'd just take it, be left at like 25 percent and get healed up.

UrQuan

Based on the title of this thread, I disagree with your premise. Based on what you've actually said in your post, I kind of agree and I kind of disagree. I mean, the title is "vet dungeons a little too unforgiving for new players", and frankly vet dungeons should be unforgiving for new players, because new players shouldn't be trying to do dungeons intended for veterans.

Having said that, that's not really what you're describing. There's a big difference between new players and players who aren't at CP cap but are high enough to use max-level gear. If you're high enough in CPs to use max-level gear, the majority of vet dungeons should be challenging, but doable. Maybe not on hard mode, but if you're not doing hard mode it should be doable.

What I would really like to see in ESO is a smoother progression of difficulty when it comes to dungeons. Here's how I'd like it to work (and when I talk about tiers, I don't necessarily mean based on the original levels that the dungeons were scaled to, it's a bit of an arbitrary distinction for the easier dungeons within a category compared to the harder dungeons within a category - also when I talk about what levels people should be able to do the dungeons at, I mean that just as a general guideline for people of average skill):

• Tier 1 of normal-mode Part 1 dungeons: challenging but doable for level 10+ players (although I actually kind of don't think that you have enough tools to properly learn to do dungeons until level 15)
• Tier 2 of normal-mode Part1 dungeons: challenging but doable for level 20+ players who are comfortable with doing lower difficulty dungeons.
• Normal-mode Part 2 dungeons: challenging but doable for level 30+ players who are comfortable with doing lower difficulty dungeons.
• Normal-mode DLC dungeons: challenging but doable for level 40+ players who are comfortable with doing lower difficulty dungeons.
• Tier 1 of vet-mode Part 1 dungeons: challenging but doable for level 50 players regardless of CPs
• Tier 2 of vet-mode Part1 dungeons: challenging but doable for level 50 CP70+ players who are comfortable with doing lower difficulty dungeons.
• Vet-mode Part 2 dungeons: challenging but doable for level 50 CP150+ players who are comfortable with doing lower difficulty dungeons.
• Vet-mode DLC dungeons: challenging but doable for level 50 CP300+ players who are comfortable with doing lower difficulty dungeons.
• For all hard-mode challenges, jump 1 level of difficulty.

I know that's not how it actually is, but that's the level of progression I'd like to see. As it is, you've got just a couple of levels of difficulty with big jumps in between.

Edit: it's probably worth noting that I started typing this reply when the title of this thread hadn't yet been edited, but I had to pause to get some work done, so I didn't actually hit "Post" until after the title had already been changed to be more accurate

Mitoice

In my opinion this is a learn to play issue, i just hate it when people, instead of looking to ways of getting better, look for developers to tone down the difficulty and make it a bad game for everyone else, cause ZOS actually listens to this and they already toned down the difficulty a lot of times.
One of the finest points of playing an MMO, is getting beaten so you can better yourself, analyze your gear, skills, build etc...
Not having a game where you just point and shoot.
You need a single player game with cheats if you want to accomplish this.

Doctordarkspawn

I made a thread about this on general discussion, and this thread was linked to me by the OP, and I have to say, I agree with the OP.

The dungeons are starting to get in a very good place right now. But things like this, this very large disconnect and effect the scailing has on the end bosses and certain bosses, is far, far too buggered in it's current state. Bring things down a notch, maybe increase resistances slightly, regulate damage slightly, and we will have dungeons I think we'll all be happy with, if we dont have unreasonable expectations.

Paulington

Pandorii wrote: »

@Paulington I don't understand. You're saying that the problem is skill? Not that the mechanics are designed to only be survived with a specific build and/or the handicap of CP?

timidobserver wrote: »

Worst case scenario equip harness Magicka.

This is true. I could have stacked my healing ward and magicka harness. But I was at the point where I jumped into a fight without them, and it would take a group wipe to be able to reset my skills. The group didn't wipe. They were all near cap. They just completed the fight without me. That's why I was embarrassed.

Did you mean to tag me here? A little confused. .

Sallington

Paulington wrote: »

Pandorii wrote: »

@Paulington I don't understand. You're saying that the problem is skill? Not that the mechanics are designed to only be survived with a specific build and/or the handicap of CP?

timidobserver wrote: »

Worst case scenario equip harness Magicka.

This is true. I could have stacked my healing ward and magicka harness. But I was at the point where I jumped into a fight without them, and it would take a group wipe to be able to reset my skills. The group didn't wipe. They were all near cap. They just completed the fight without me. That's why I was embarrassed.

Did you mean to tag me here? A little confused. .

I think he meant to tag me, lol

Pandorii

Sallington wrote: »

Paulington wrote: »

Pandorii wrote: »

@Paulington I don't understand. You're saying that the problem is skill? Not that the mechanics are designed to only be survived with a specific build and/or the handicap of CP?

timidobserver wrote: »

Worst case scenario equip harness Magicka.

This is true. I could have stacked my healing ward and magicka harness. But I was at the point where I jumped into a fight without them, and it would take a group wipe to be able to reset my skills. The group didn't wipe. They were all near cap. They just completed the fight without me. That's why I was embarrassed.

Did you mean to tag me here? A little confused. .

I think he meant to tag me, lol

@Paulington and @Sallington =D oops!

lolo_01b16_ESO

Pandorii wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

I disagree. You said vet mode with scroll correct? So you had trouble on some of the games hardest 4 man content on a lower cp character? I sort of think you should. I dont know for sure, but it also sounds like you still got through it?

How did the rest of the dungeon go? I am assuming ok since you didnt mention it. So you had no problem with the vet dungeon. More so the Hard Mode you selected by reading the scroll.

Yup. And I've completed many of the other vet dungeons with scrolls before. It was just this one specific un-dodgeable mechanic that I had trouble with. Right after, we completed vet City of Ash (scroll) with no problem.

I don't mind the one-shot dodgeable mechanics. I'm familiar enough with dodge-rolling out of danger (even as magicka type with limited stam). But the one in Spindleclutch 1 ripped right through my armor and shield.

Spindle last boss doesn't have any undodgable oneshots. His poison spit and his unbreakable stun both can be dodged. It might be hard to see if you do it with mutiple melee dps, but if you are really struggeling you could just kill the boss with destro staff light attacks from range.

And almost all vet dungeon hardmodes are doable without cp if you are familiar with the mechanics and know where the dodge key is on your keyboard. The only ones that will be very hard are rom and cos due to the ressource drain mechanics.

KingYogi415

Vet dungeons could be 1-manned by elite players. Check youtube. Tanks and healers were becoming obsolete. 4 stormproof stambuilds running VO makes any but the newest dlc dungeons a joke.

I find it hard to believe a long time player does not understand power creep. Thing are balanced around AvA and 561's

Not new players or 1v1 duels.

Pandorii

Pandorii wrote: »

I am aware of the damage creep in this game every time they increase the CR cap and introduce overperforming sets. Ohh trust me, I'm aware. They should sacrifice the experience of the newer players just to ensure the maxed out players are being challenged. There should be another way to rectify that difference.

@KingYogi415

What I experienced today was a huge dose of 'putting myself in someone else's shoes'. I've looked at the game from an end-gamer perspective until I re-lived being a CR 160 players. It's genuinely impossible to imagine without actually being there yourself. But let's just say for the sake of argument... try to imagine when you were CR 160. The dungeons may need to be more difficult for end-gamers to be entertained. I know that side of the story well. But I also think that they need to be doable for somebody new to CR 160.

Either that, or the message the dungeons communicate needs to change so that the line between what is for CR 160 players and what is for end-gamers (this can be max CP people or non-max CP people who like a challenge). Spindleclutch made me realize that I don't know where that line is anymore with 1T.

KingYogi415

No I don't agree some one not even half of cap should able to do all the hardest content in the game.

I remember doing vet dungeons at 80cp around a year ago. There were only 2 dungeon that low cp people even had a chance in. Spindle and sewers. It sucked and so did getting 1-2cp for 20+ hours of play.

When they fixed the leveling system I still waited till I had 400cp to even step foot in vWGT.

My point is I remember the struggle. But the game is so easy to progress now.

Asking for all end game content to be doable to a newcomer would kill the game. but I still get 100cp people begging to come in vet trials, and refuse to understand it's just not possible.

Pandorii

@KingYogi415 I wanted to clarify that I wasn't proposing that vet dungeons be doing in my thread. I'm going to change my title to reflect that. I think dlc dungeons offer that difficulty.

Doctordarkspawn

KingYogi415 wrote: »

Vet dungeons could be 1-manned by elite players. Check youtube. Tanks and healers were becoming obsolete. 4 stormproof stambuilds running VO makes any but the newest dlc dungeons a joke.

I find it hard to believe a long time player does not understand power creep. Thing are balanced around AvA and 561's

Not new players or 1v1 duels.

KingYogi415 wrote: »

No I don't agree some one not even half of cap should able to do all the hardest content in the game.

I remember doing vet dungeons at 80cp around a year ago. There were only 2 dungeon that low cp people even had a chance in. Spindle and sewers. It sucked and so did getting 1-2cp for 20+ hours of play.

When they fixed the leveling system I still waited till I had 400cp to even step foot in vWGT.

My point is I remember the struggle. But the game is so easy to progress now.

Asking for all end game content to be doable to a newcomer would kill the game. but I still get 100cp people begging to come in vet trials, and refuse to understand it's just not possible.

For you.

We're not talking about vet trials. We're talking about dungeons. The casuals are not coming to take your guns, take off the tinfoil hat.

Personally, I think the question of 'should the Non DLC dungeons need CP beyond the minimum and skill beyond the minimum" is a question worth asking. Because quite frankly how it's scaled now it's driving off even the people who -do- have max CP and best in slot. I know and have met many people who hate doing pledges now. Just because it takes so long, and they wanna chill, y'know?


If this is honestly how you feel, advocate to remove the group finder. I have advocated the removal of dungeons like Cradle and Maz from the group finder because they were clearly not built to be pugable. It is a logical mechanical way to say "We dont want pugs doing this content".

AhPook_Is_Here

I finished it on pledge day with 2 dps that were both below 100cp and a healer that wasn't really a healer also below 100cp. Trash clear was a bit slow. Boss fights were all fine except for the last boss. We killed it after about 20 minutes of combat, most of the time the whole group was dead besides me, mainly because of the "one-shot" mechanics. I would res the dead when I had magma shell up and they'd last about 1 min or so before dying again, mostly due to the incompetent healer. The DPS players were actually decent players for being so new, and never lost spirit. I had a very similar experience in banished cells a few days before. Some things to note in this, all of the players besides the tank were below 20k health. None of the players used block or roll dodge to avoid damage, even though the timing of the off taunt attacks operate like clockwork on all these bosses, happening immediately after another ability is used that heralds it.

I later did tempest island as a DPS with another DPS in the 300 cp range, I am at the cap myself. We wiped a few times, mostly because of the wind mechanic buffeting players back into the last bosse's aoe, but also due to the one shot charge mechanic that block didn't seem to mitigate. Block mitigation should be effective for these mechanics. We all slotted absorb magic and used it after her AOE to augment our low DPS hp pools putting ourselves above 30k after the aoe for 6 seconds. This overcame the charge problem. We used immovability pots to avoid the wind or dodge rolled to avoid the AOE if the wind was on our vector out of the aoe.

I think the mechanics are fine as is, and the problem is that players aren't using creative solutions to overcome these problems. There are lots of tools in everyone's chest to get around problems and in order for players to become better players they need to learn to think beyond their meta build they got from tamriel forge and realize there is more to their character than one is on their bar after following the build guide. I get that a lot of people like to give up if things aren't super easy, but since the training ground of hard gold and silver areas are gone for over 2 years and vet dungeons of the past failed to challenge players to improve, this kind of difficulty is necessary if zos is ever going to be able to make challenging trials and expect to have a player base trained to deal with those challenges.

Doctordarkspawn

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

I finished it on pledge day with 2 dps that were both below 100cp and a healer that wasn't really a healer also below 100cp. Trash clear was a bit slow. Boss fights were all fine except for the last boss. We killed it after about 20 minutes of combat, most of the time the whole group was dead besides me, mainly because of the "one-shot" mechanics. I would res the dead when I had magma shell up and they'd last about 1 min or so before dying again, mostly due to the incompetent healer. The DPS players were actually decent players for being so new, and never lost spirit. I had a very similar experience in banished cells a few days before. Some things to note in this, all of the players besides the tank were below 20k health. None of the players used block or roll dodge to avoid damage, even though the timing of the off taunt attacks operate like clockwork on all these bosses, happening immediately after another ability is used that heralds it.

I later did tempest island as a DPS with another DPS in the 300 cp range, I am at the cap myself. We wiped a few times, mostly because of the wind mechanic buffeting players back into the last bosse's aoe, but also due to the one shot charge mechanic that block didn't seem to mitigate. Block mitigation should be effective for these mechanics. We all slotted absorb magic and used it after her AOE to augment our low DPS hp pools putting ourselves above 30k after the aoe for 6 seconds. This overcame the charge problem. We used immovability pots to avoid the wind or dodge rolled to avoid the AOE if the wind was on our vector out of the aoe.

I think the mechanics are fine as is, and the problem is that players aren't using creative solutions to overcome these problems. There are lots of tools in everyone's chest to get around problems and in order for players to become better players they need to learn to think beyond their meta build they got from tamriel forge and realize there is more to their character than one is on their bar after following the build guide. I get that a lot of people like to give up if things aren't super easy, but since the training ground of hard gold and silver areas are gone for over 2 years and vet dungeons of the past failed to challenge players to improve, this kind of difficulty is necessary if zos is ever going to be able to make challenging trials and expect to have a player base trained to deal with those challenges.

I'd actually like to counter this, by saying we have been trained, for years, to not think using this method. The Meta was law, for trials and dungeons, you used what was optimized because it was proven to work, or you wipe.

People have been trained not to think.

Dubhliam

If I hadn't experienced this myself, I would most definitely be on the other side of the wagon, telling the OP this is a L2P issue.

But I have experienced this firsthand in vet Spindle Hard Mode and this particular fight was really frustrating.
There were actually two different attacks (a green spit and some slow moving blue projectile) that don't follow aggro and both can one shot blocking targets. What really got me confused is that on some rare occasions my group members managed to survive one of those attacks (not sure which) by blocking, but more often than not, they would not survive them.

I am always an advocate of hard content and meaningful mechanics, I truly am.
But I am also an advocate of being able to survive by blocking. If a boss attack does over 20k damage even if blocked, it is a bit over the top.

I think these one shot skills are an unfortunate side effect of ZOS kicking the dungeon stats a bit.
The dungeons really needed the difficulty push. But they didn't fine tune the boss skills, nor could they with so many dungeons that got reworked.
Now the only thing left for ZOS to do is to fine tune every vet dungeon.

I still haven't done every vet dungeon after One Tamriel, but this is the only one so far that my groups struggled so far.
Of course we beat it, but not without frustration.

DeadlyRecluse

Dungeons, imo, SHOULD be difficult for fresh CP160 players. You should/will have to play the mechanics pretty near flawlessly.

But enjoy it while it lasts. Dungeons at beta and launch were extremely fun, because you had to play mechanics and actually learn together. Now everyone runs the same strategy or burns through mechanics. IMO, you are experiencing the dungeon as actually designed--and they've finally adjusted the reward for doing so (100% helm drops) so it doesn't feel quite as unrewarding.

That being said, yeah I'm noticing some weird oneshot (or near-oneshot) mechanics that are either new or recently buffed up.

Doctordarkspawn

After doing Vet COA today and quietly ducking out of a group because the DPS couldn't do the first boss in a reasonable ammount of time I can only conclude that the only people doing high DPS now, were doing high DPS before the patch.

And these were not low level CP players, allbiet magicka sorcs. Either somethin' is wonk with them or somethin' is wonk with the dungeon, and I'ma say dungeon.

Until the scaling is lowered I dont think I'll be puging anymore. People say that making them game too easy would kill the game, but honestly, I see less people log on, I see less people in zone....I see less people doing dungeons. This, If anything, is killing the game.

Artis

Pandorii wrote: »

Pandorii wrote: »

I am aware of the damage creep in this game every time they increase the CR cap and introduce overperforming sets. Ohh trust me, I'm aware. They should sacrifice the experience of the newer players just to ensure the maxed out players are being challenged. There should be another way to rectify that difference.

@KingYogi415

What I experienced today was a huge dose of 'putting myself in someone else's shoes'. I've looked at the game from an end-gamer perspective until I re-lived being a CR 160 players. It's genuinely impossible to imagine without actually being there yourself. But let's just say for the sake of argument... try to imagine when you were CR 160. The dungeons may need to be more difficult for end-gamers to be entertained. I know that side of the story well. But I also think that they need to be doable for somebody new to CR 160.

Either that, or the message the dungeons communicate needs to change so that the line between what is for CR 160 players and what is for end-gamers (this can be max CP people or non-max CP people who like a challenge). Spindleclutch made me realize that I don't know where that line is anymore with 1T.

And they are doable. Numbers aren't the problem, there's enough dps and survivability if players are competent. Come on, people were completing all vet dungeons PRE-nerf at 160CP, then vicp and vwgt at around 200cp(when they were released).

timidobserver

You still get a key without the scroll. For that reason I am okay with scroll mode not having guaranteed success for every group.

Doctordarkspawn

Artis wrote: »

Pandorii wrote: »

Pandorii wrote: »

I am aware of the damage creep in this game every time they increase the CR cap and introduce overperforming sets. Ohh trust me, I'm aware. They should sacrifice the experience of the newer players just to ensure the maxed out players are being challenged. There should be another way to rectify that difference.

@KingYogi415

What I experienced today was a huge dose of 'putting myself in someone else's shoes'. I've looked at the game from an end-gamer perspective until I re-lived being a CR 160 players. It's genuinely impossible to imagine without actually being there yourself. But let's just say for the sake of argument... try to imagine when you were CR 160. The dungeons may need to be more difficult for end-gamers to be entertained. I know that side of the story well. But I also think that they need to be doable for somebody new to CR 160.

Either that, or the message the dungeons communicate needs to change so that the line between what is for CR 160 players and what is for end-gamers (this can be max CP people or non-max CP people who like a challenge). Spindleclutch made me realize that I don't know where that line is anymore with 1T.

And they are doable. Numbers aren't the problem, there's enough dps and survivability if players are competent. Come on, people were completing all vet dungeons PRE-nerf at 160CP, then vicp and vwgt at around 200cp(when they were released).

Doable for you, not for most of the playerbase it seems.

And at this point I dont really care what the problem is, people needing to git gud, or the game design needing fixed. Today, I met a group of two magicka sorcs, one 561 the other in the high end of the 400 range, who couldn't complete the first boss of COA in a reasonable ammount of time.

Something has gotta give. Either you need to lower the bar across the board and limit the difficulty to a new difficulty mode or we need to take a serious look at -giving- the players the tools to build their characters correctly, because as it is this game dosent give you *** to go on.

Surely you can agree, that a sample build and gear for players and detailing how to get it, would go a long way toward weeding out some of these crap DPS?

Nirrudn

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Doable for you, not for most of the playerbase it seems.

And at this point I dont really care what the problem is, people needing to git gud, or the game design needing fixed. Today, I met a group of two magicka sorcs, one 561 the other in the high end of the 400 range, who couldn't complete the first boss of COA in a reasonable ammount of time.

Something has gotta give. Either you need to lower the bar across the board and limit the difficulty to a new difficulty mode or we need to take a serious look at -giving- the players the tools to build their characters correctly, because as it is this game dosent give you *** to go on.

Surely you can agree, that a sample build and gear for players and detailing how to get it, would go a long way toward weeding out some of these crap DPS?

I have dreamed of a game where to unlock advanced dungeons (e.g. Veteran mode) you have to do a one time quest to prove you're capable of the role(s) you want to queue for. If Veteran dungeons are balanced around X DPS output from DPS characters, Y minimum HP on tanks, etc., there should be in-game tests for that. If you've got friends that want to carry you, you can still manually enter the dungeon, but a test/requirement to randomly queue would at least force players to adjust if they aren't up to snuff.

This is even easy to pass off in the lore, since we have the Undaunted. They're not going to let you tackle the hard stuff if they think you're not up to it.

Doctordarkspawn

Nirrudn wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Doable for you, not for most of the playerbase it seems.

And at this point I dont really care what the problem is, people needing to git gud, or the game design needing fixed. Today, I met a group of two magicka sorcs, one 561 the other in the high end of the 400 range, who couldn't complete the first boss of COA in a reasonable ammount of time.

Something has gotta give. Either you need to lower the bar across the board and limit the difficulty to a new difficulty mode or we need to take a serious look at -giving- the players the tools to build their characters correctly, because as it is this game dosent give you *** to go on.

Surely you can agree, that a sample build and gear for players and detailing how to get it, would go a long way toward weeding out some of these crap DPS?

I have dreamed of a game where to unlock advanced dungeons (e.g. Veteran mode) you have to do a one time quest to prove you're capable of the role(s) you want to queue for. If Veteran dungeons are balanced around X DPS output from DPS characters, Y minimum HP on tanks, etc., there should be in-game tests for that. If you've got friends that want to carry you, you can still manually enter the dungeon, but a test/requirement to randomly queue would at least force players to adjust if they aren't up to snuff.

This is even easy to pass off in the lore, since we have the Undaunted. They're not going to let you tackle the hard stuff if they think you're not up to it.

At this point, I wouldn't even say no. I'd be much more in favor of nerfing dungeons that are making people who have high DPS, not want to *** do them, but I'd settle for this.

Eitherway, this is driving off the people who dont wanna have to need high DPS to do a dungeon, which includes a signifigant portion of the high DPS playerbase. I see people queue less and less, and the people who do dont have a clue. People like to throw the 'killing the game' thing around, but given how little I see people doing trials and dungeons now, I think this might just be doing it.

Alternatively, just give us more rigid classes or suggested builds for certain tasks. Give us "Kallistig's Tips" "Gilirions Notes" "Maj's pointers". SOMETHING. Some directon on how to build our builds, so that people have -something- that they can take to these things.

SaRuZ

I was 115 CP and tanked vbanished cells 2 naked as a magsorc a few nights ago. It took us an hour and a half but we did it.

jolebre

Now-days it's hard to find group for v dungeons, not to mention a good quality group!
Before patch I could easily find pugs group in less then 10 min, which in most cases (70%) was enjoyable game-play. But now, lfg it takes 30min if not an hour, to find any kind of group where only 30% is enjoyable game time for me. That includes all 5 guilds and friend list( most are offline or not interested).
There should be somehow implemented in-game tutorials, builds, rotations, resource and buff support...

Pandorii

jolebre wrote: »

Now-days it's hard to find group for v dungeons, not to mention a good quality group!
Before patch I could easily find pugs group in less then 10 min, which in most cases (70%) was enjoyable game-play. But now, lfg it takes 30min if not an hour, to find any kind of group where only 30% is enjoyable game time for me. That includes all 5 guilds and friend list( most are offline or not interested).
There should be somehow implemented in-game tutorials, builds, rotations, resource and buff support...

My guess is that players are opting out of doing dungeons once they max out their undaunted, given that they take longer and result in more wipes now.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Pandorii wrote: »

jolebre wrote: »

Now-days it's hard to find group for v dungeons, not to mention a good quality group!
Before patch I could easily find pugs group in less then 10 min, which in most cases (70%) was enjoyable game-play. But now, lfg it takes 30min if not an hour, to find any kind of group where only 30% is enjoyable game time for me. That includes all 5 guilds and friend list( most are offline or not interested).
There should be somehow implemented in-game tutorials, builds, rotations, resource and buff support...

My guess is that players are opting out of doing dungeons once they max out their undaunted, given that they take longer and result in more wipes now.

It is also hard to judge since there has been an event going on. Are more people just ignoring dungeons now and farming open world? Are more people packing into normal dungeons for easier farming?

I know ive been running less dungeons as I farm skulls.