Witches Festival - Archaic MMO Design 101

Zuuman

JD2013 wrote: »

At this point, I am starting to think that anything that is added into this game, people will just complain about it.

Yup, if they went with a more decorated event the RP communitty would be here rambling how all these events are ruining their precious immersion. If there was a pvp event PvE would burn in rage that its outrageous and so on...

Whatever these devs do as long as we share so many communities in the same serv post like these will always exists.

I would have loved decorations tho ^^

Rosveen

Zuuman wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

At this point, I am starting to think that anything that is added into this game, people will just complain about it.

Yup, if they went with a more decorated event the RP communitty would be here rambling how all these events are ruining their precious immersion. If there was a pvp event PvE would burn in rage that its outrageous and so on...

Whatever these devs do as long as we share so many communities in the same serv post like these will always exists.

I would have loved decorations tho ^^

The RP community is probably the one that's the most interested in this sort of events. ZOS has a loremaster for a reason, they can figure out how to make events more immersive while keeping them lore-friendly.

But I think we should cut them some slack. It's what, their second holiday event? They're learning. We know the New Life Festival is going to be pretty fun, with different cultural games and celebrations.

Faulgor

AndyTGD wrote: »

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Want to see how a successful and engaging Holiday event in a RPG should be? Have a look at GW2.

Especially the Jumping Games

Very well done, thought out, etc.

Prime example... It's a spooky holiday event. Why aren't the main cities all decked out like that?

Prime example here in these 2 screen shots.





It's a shame really. Rivenspire would look awesome all decked out!

This is exactly correct. I mean, how hard is it to deck out the major cities with some pumpkin lanterns here and there? I thought this finally would be an opportunity for the devs to make the cities seem less static and boring, but once again an opportunity is wasted on the easy, uninspired option. Even ArcheAge manages to decorate its cities for seasonal events, and its nothing more than a pathetic cash grab game!

The Witches Festival is not something that is celebrated in the cities, certainly not with pumpkin lanterns. This isn't Halloween.

Demonologists, conjurors, lamias, warlocks, and thaumaturgists meet in the wilderness outside (the city), and the creatures created or summoned there may plague Tamriel for eons. Most wise men choose not to wander this night.

Carbonised

Kind of funny when a Skyrim mod manages to do at least as good a job as an ESO official event.

Danikat

I think the point about Guild Wars 2's Halloween event was well made, if you're familiar with the game and the event.

Firstly the obvious point: it has a totally different art style, so things like a grinning face in the moon, giant cartoon candy corn and "spooky" doors appearing look a lot less out of place there than they would in ESO. But as I understood it no one was suggesting copying it exactly, simply following the same idea of decorating areas of the world in the theme of the festival. Of course it should be appropriate for ESO's lore and art style.

But the important thing (from the little bit I've seen of the Witches Festival) is that GW2's event includes a whole variety of activities so everyone can pick the one/s that appeal to them. If you want to farm themed drops you can do that (both in the open world and in a special themed area). But if you don't want to do that you can do Halloween themed PvP, a storyline 'quest', various mini games, a short Halloween dungeon and events in town with NPCs.

And in spite of being quite silly and obviously inspired by modern American Halloween it does also have a fair bit of lore behind it. It all centers around "Mad" King Thorn, the former tyrannical ruler of the main human kingdom, his followers the Lunatic Court and their repeated attempts to return to the world of the living from the pocket dimension where they were sealed away. All of the mini games and activities tie into that and have something to do with the overall theme and story of the holiday so none of it feels out of place to the rest of the game.

Wild_Monk

Absolutely useless and harmful quest. Now in the game everywhere running around the ugly skeletons in rags. The first time I saw and was horrified. What an abomination. Blasphemy.
I suggest: running around on the game like walking corps - those who lost the duel in PvP. Lost and was killed? Now go 1 day as garbage and stupid punk.

Mojmir

Faulgor wrote: »

AndyTGD wrote: »

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Want to see how a successful and engaging Holiday event in a RPG should be? Have a look at GW2.

Especially the Jumping Games

Very well done, thought out, etc.

Prime example... It's a spooky holiday event. Why aren't the main cities all decked out like that?

Prime example here in these 2 screen shots.





It's a shame really. Rivenspire would look awesome all decked out!

This is exactly correct. I mean, how hard is it to deck out the major cities with some pumpkin lanterns here and there? I thought this finally would be an opportunity for the devs to make the cities seem less static and boring, but once again an opportunity is wasted on the easy, uninspired option. Even ArcheAge manages to decorate its cities for seasonal events, and its nothing more than a pathetic cash grab game!

The Witches Festival is not something that is celebrated in the cities, certainly not with pumpkin lanterns. This isn't Halloween.

Demonologists, conjurors, lamias, warlocks, and thaumaturgists meet in the wilderness outside (the city), and the creatures created or summoned there may plague Tamriel for eons. Most wise men choose not to wander this night.

So basically, business as usual in tamriel.

waterfairy

I don't see a problem here because the bottom line is they added new loot and how do you earn new loot in an MMO? Grind and kill bosses.

It seems like people expected Gina to show up dressed like a witch tossing out free candy to everyone at a big party...be real.

TequilaFire

This event is just fine.
If you chose to just stay and grind one boss that is your problem and not what was intended.
You have many delves world bosses and dolmans across Tamriel. Why not try to go do all of them to get the achievements for doing so to make it more of a challenge and less of a grind.
Then you will feel more rewarded when you get those special drops along the way.
It is also about the fun of doing this with others, not just loot for the greedy.

Maikon

Every time they release new content, or do some kind of event, most of you always find something to complain about. If they had made the towns more festive, you would have found something wrong with it and whined. If they added mini games and events, most of you would have whined about them being too easy, or there being too much lag. When all you do is complain about new content, that doesn't motivate the ZOS to really put thought and effort into stuff. How about you show some ******* gratitude when the release new content and try to make things better instead of always ********.

Lunarhound

While I agree that people tend to complain a bit too much, I also think the event being a bit lackluster is a valid criticism. I really miss Lord Of The Rings Online's events, sometimes. They put a lot of work into them.

One of my favorites, to this day, was the Christmas event a few years ago. There was a village constructed especially for it, with mini-games like drinking and eating contests, and a theater that would randomly draft players in the audience to fill parts on the stage. They'd have to respond to acting queues with specific emotes or spoken lines, and people in the audience could throw flowers or rotten fruit at them depending on whether they got them right or wrong. There was even an achievement for doing that enough times, which rewarded you with permanent emotes that let you throw flowers or fruit at other players.

The best part, though, was a quest line that gave you the eventual choice of helping either the rich or the poor folks. You got a set of fancy clothes for helping the rich folks and a set of beggar's rags for helping the poor. Several months later, those that chose to help the poor received a letter in their in-game mail saying that the couple had, as a result of your efforts, managed to come into some money and was now doing very well, and they sent you a set of even nicer clothes as a thank-you. Some of the people who'd only helped the rich ones griped, but I thought it was a cool little unexpected twist.

So, yeah, stuff like this is obviously a lot of work, but it can make for some really memorable community gatherings that people are still talking about years later, and I imagine many of the elements can be reused in the years that follow. I tend to think the extra work is probably worth it for the environment it creates.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

Rosveen wrote: »

But I think we should cut them some slack. It's what, their second holiday event? They're learning. We know the New Life Festival is going to be pretty fun, with different cultural games and celebrations.

Faulgor wrote: »

The Witches Festival is not something that is celebrated in the cities, certainly not with pumpkin lanterns. This isn't Halloween.

Demonologists, conjurors, lamias, warlocks, and thaumaturgists meet in the wilderness outside (the city), and the creatures created or summoned there may plague Tamriel for eons. Most wise men choose not to wander this night.

This and this. We all know if ZOS does something huge all at once something equally huge will break. I would rather have baby steps that work than giant steps that don't. Last time we just got a Memento, this time we get a Memento and some themed drops, next time we're supposed to get multiple quests...ZOS is listening on this.

But it isn't like ZOS can go to the grocer and say 'yes, I'd like a pound of sidequest and three slices of new Motif, oh, and give me a pint of ambiance too' then drop it in the game in an afternoon and expect it to work.

(Speaking of: I'm still convinced the Dread Flesh Collosi at the Dolmens are bugged.)

Don't get me wrong, I hope they elaborate in the future with more quests etc., but remember ZOS is doing housing in the background at the very least. And the quests etc. should fit the world; giant candy corn sticking out of the ground would look ridiculous in Tamriel, but random swarms of Wild Hunt beasties attacking Wayrest? A priest of the Eight putting up symbols of Arkay to ward off restless spirits? A Lamia matron whose hatchling went missing and swears to sacrifice a bunch of travelers to vile forces if you don't give her her child back?

That sort of thing takes time; even if they just add corpses and summoning circles in all the towns, they'd need to make sure they appeared and disappeared on schedule and don't collide with any existing quests. Any more than that and you need to write the quest, voice act it, add the NPCs, make sure the quest steps update, tweak as necessary...add extra animations if no appropriate ones exist for any special things the PCs/NPCs do, design any new assets...

Dubhliam

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Well if I can be completely honest. You're on the right track but I disagree with your event description entirely.

Ideally if I was @ZOS_GinaBruno sharing something for her to read and relay back to the Deb's I'd suggest the following:

-First release housing

Then with events like this one
Have trick or treat similar to how we in America go from house to house on one night but because it's a game, you allow this every night during the event period.

Housing theme event decorations
Players would go to player and NPC houses with an event bag for trick or treat. Players can also craft things as event quests and leave these items at their houses for other players to go to a node. Each day a player does the quest the node is created and the creation of a node increases the players chance for treats and lessens the chance to be tricked.

Treats are any drop as well as items gained from the trick or treat nodes.
Tricks- would be debuffs or polymorphism that have short timers from nodes and drops

---

Fast forward to Thanksgiving event with housing

-players can do a quest to invite players to a feast or gathering of sorts
These gathering would occur by NPC and player houses with nodes themed for the event.

Food crafting and costumes as well as motifs
Food could increase recipe drops and hard to find mats
Housing theme decorations

---

Christmas event with housing

Basically quest for gift giving via crafting, motif, costumes, recipes, mailed gifts, and a visit from Sheogorath and a host of other deadra in towns delivering gifts daily for players.
Inviting players over into a house for gift exchanges with interior housing event theme decorations

---

Easter with housing

Yes....shard hunting (not eggs) but these shards perhaps don't give skills but instead they collect an give a chance towards magic items, motif, costumes and I'd personally like to see our cat friends like the liar being the "Easter bunny"


These are American ideas, but there are plenty of other event ideas that could be on rotation and be a drastic break from the typical event grinds that do get boring and often make some players feel griefed

Awesome ideas, but you do realize one particular event is very much localized?

Halloween, Easter, Christmas, and even Valentines are global holidays since most are embedded through a prevailing religion.

Thanksgiving however, is a national north american holiday.
I seriously would not know what to be thankful for at that particular time in the year as a Croat.
We do however have our very own Independence day, but then again, why would the rest of the world care?

Elsonso

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Want to see how a successful and engaging Holiday event in a RPG should be? Have a look at GW2.

Especially the Jumping Games

Very well done, thought out, etc.

Prime example... It's a spooky holiday event. Why aren't the main cities all decked out like that?

Prime example here in these 2 screen shots.

Bad:


Good:


It's a shame really. Rivenspire would look awesome all decked out!

Mainly because the events of Witches Festival take place outside of the cities, according to all available references.

Callous2208

After years of seeing the same rehashed crap in every mmo, it's refreshing to me to see eso at least try and be lore friendly versus over the top for no reason. Nobody in Tamriel knows what the hell Halloween, Christmas, Easter, and the like are. I don't need to see this stuff in game to get me in the holiday spirit, that's what real life is for. Gw2 events may have wowed me initially with the art design, but they were just a few weeks of grinding out holiday stuff as well. Tamriel specific events and holidays are fine, this event was fine imo. Going forward I'm sure they'll add a little more flair to satisfy those that can't get enough "holiday" in the real world.

Myrrdinn2014

bedlom wrote: »

Probably don't need GM's present for it but the event definitely could have been more fun and original.

Back in the EQ1 days GM's would take control of these massive named mobs and run around wreaking havoc till everyone came and dispatched them was quite fun. I totally agree with OP post about coming up with different things instead of just adding more grind to the grind we already have.

Dont get me wrong I do enjoy the Motifs that are basically free for doing stuff we already do but the event could be so much more if they wanted.

Elsonso

Myrrdinn2014 wrote: »

Dont get me wrong I do enjoy the Motifs that are basically free for doing stuff we already do but the event could be so much more if they wanted.

To me, that is what makes this holiday better. It is playing the game, just with a different goal. I really don't care for the over-the-top holidays where everything is decked out in whatever the cultural norm is for North America.

If I want MMO Halloween or MMO Christmas, I am sure that WoW can deliver. They are all about contemporary culture meeting whatever it is they use as game lore over there.

Wild_Monk

It is necessary to prohibit generally walk in the form of undead skeletons, and is an abomination. Filth.

kamimark

Dubhliam wrote: »

Awesome ideas, but you do realize one particular event is very much localized?
Halloween, Easter, Christmas, and even Valentines are global holidays since most are embedded through a prevailing religion.
Thanksgiving however, is a national north american holiday.
I seriously would not know what to be thankful for at that particular time in the year as a Croat.
We do however have our very own Independence day, but then again, why would the rest of the world care?

Most countries have some kind of Autumn harvest festival. American & Canadian Thanksgiving are specific to colonization, but: List_of_harvest_festivals

Tamriel has farmers, and seasons (even if they don't have a visual effect in ESO), so they'll have harvest festivals.

Korah_Eaglecry

I say give them a chance to really get into this. This is the very first event theyve done (outside of the anniversary cake). Id say theyre still learning how to run a successful event. And while it might be grindy. Its rather successful and enjoyable as long as you arent stressing over what you get out of the Plunder Skulls.

Other games Ive played with Holiday Events took a few years before they really fleshed out how they wanted it to run and present the playerbase with something they were overwhelmingly enjoying. It takes time to figure out how you want your games Events to work and what it is thats going to draw players in.

At this point we should be happy we're getting Events. These bring life to the game and draw players new and old into the game. Things can only improve from here.

hedna123b14_ESO

Remag_Div wrote: »

When I first saw the Witches Festival announcement on the launcher I was excited as it sounded like some sort of party or event leading into Halloween. Then I read what it was and was sorely disappointed.

It's simply more of the same archaic MMO grind fest. I wish MMO's would do away with this uninspired "content." It simply comes off as an afterthought when it's so lazily implemented, even adding stuff in the store immediately so people can just pay money right away.

Instead of having people grind bosses for days, why can't we have an actual Halloween themed event or party led by GM's who give out themed loot throughout the night? This game needs less grinding and more community interaction in inventive ways. Of course this is not the norm and a hassle, so they just resort to simple and boring grind mechanics that MMO gamers have seen and done the last 20 years.

Disagree completely, the event is a giant success. The purpose was i assume for people to replay certain content or to engage it for the first time ( delves/group bosses). They devs did a great job since you dont have to do anything extra (grinding) you can just do pledges or explore and get the rewards. Fantastic system.

shadoza

sadownik wrote: »

@Ankael07, de gustibus... of course, but the existence of obliviion gives us some space i assume . But whats more important events like this in gw2 include something for all kinds of players - you have jumping puzzles, silly social games, something for pvp, grinders and open world.

You mean like Facebook games. Platforming does not belong in an MMO. Platforming can be extremely frustrating for any user whose computer system is less than great. In TSW our cabal held holiday events. One year we spent a couple days gathering holiday goodies and general supplies within the game, then our members stood at the doorsteps for the homes and called out in general chat that we were giving "treats" away. It was a awesome experience for the cabal and for the players that stopped by to get the free stuff.

Annalyse wrote: »

I have to agree - I was kind of excited about a new event, but all I did today was stand in a delve and repeatedly kill a boss. Most boring thing I have ever done and now that I have all the motifs I will just ignore the "event" and go back to questing. I'd really hoped for something more interactive and entertaining that I'd want to do on all of my characters.

Many players were exploiting the boss spawns this way---spawn camping. It was happening before this event and is definitely worse now. Sad thing is that some players who are attempting to complete the dungeon/quest are having to leave the dungeon without fighting the boss because it is killed within seconds of spawning. If the player did get a hit in, they received nothing for it because their one hit was too low to count. Feels like having one's victory (that feeling of accomplishment) stolen from them.

Faustes

Pretty disappointing holiday event. There was no real content. One tiny quest followed by grind.

Compared to other MMO's, rather shameful.

SolarCat02

I am enjoying it because I love running dungeons and now lots more people want to run them with me.

Dungeons are much more reliable drops. I wish more people were brave enough to run them.

Danikat

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

I say give them a chance to really get into this. This is the very first event theyve done (outside of the anniversary cake). Id say theyre still learning how to run a successful event. And while it might be grindy. Its rather successful and enjoyable as long as you arent stressing over what you get out of the Plunder Skulls.

Other games Ive played with Holiday Events took a few years before they really fleshed out how they wanted it to run and present the playerbase with something they were overwhelmingly enjoying. It takes time to figure out how you want your games Events to work and what it is thats going to draw players in.

At this point we should be happy we're getting Events. These bring life to the game and draw players new and old into the game. Things can only improve from here.

That's a good point. ZOS are new to making MMOs and as that recent article on the history of the game shows the entire thing has been a learning process for them. So maybe this will the same, and the holidays will improve over time.

raglau

I am enjoying the event, but the OP has a point. The event is a rather lack lustre version of what Trion were doing with Rift events ages ago. Still, it is the first one, perhaps ZOS are just dipping their toe in the water and will put more into the next one.

I managed to get the gold recipe on my first skull, then a mask on the third, since then I've had nothing of note, so I imagine it is very grindy and I just got lucky with my first few drops. That said, I've been doing lots of random dungeons to get skulls and the queue is popping immediately, and EVERY pug I've been in has been really good quality. And that is something to be pleased about.

AntMan100673

Dubhliam wrote: »

Thanksgiving however, is a national north american holiday.
I seriously would not know what to be thankful for at that particular time in the year as a Croat.

Be thankful that it wasn't you who gave the pilgrims turkeys?

Garwulf

Unfortunately anything discussed above would require some actuall thinking on the part of the developers and it would require money to implement. Easier to recycle the rubbish/trash than be 'original'
Not going to happen...

Korah_Eaglecry

Suter1972 wrote: »

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

I think the point generally is there has been considerable thought, over a reasonable period of time, where the GW2 team have invested heavily to make it look right, work well and really engage the community.

This is something relatively new for the ESO team as far as I can tell.

I'd like to think that they might take the main cities and look at how they can make them some what "Christmasy". IT only needs to be done one - as the style for each house now that there is some "snow" doesn;'t change every year

You see the definition of 'chrismasy' is different for everyone. My father in law used to spend xmas lunch on the beach BBQ'ing in perth Australia, while I was tucking into turkey and shivering in cold wet rain

Likewise some in Canada could be 4 deep in snow.

Youre not going to please everyone, all the time so I think ZOS have a superhard job.

Yes but thankfully we have different zones with very different climatic feels to them. Want to spend New Life Festival on a Beach? Head for Kenarthis Roost or the Summerset Isles. Want to have a very snowy New Life Festival? Head to Skyrim.