Hows the low level mats working out with ONE TAM?

Suter1972

With console heading toward ONE TAM next week and given how PC have had a week to get used to the new world, how would PC players suggest I use this time to aid the transition over.

Im concerned about mats being scaled to level. I like to craft set gear in low levels for players under 50 to give them something to spend their gold on (everything seems to be champ 160+)

As this will need to use low level mats to get the level low enough, will I still be able to collect cotton, jute, maple etc etc or will it be tied to my character level. If its tied, will it be the main battle level (ie cp128 currently) or will it be to the level of my craft skill?

STEVIL

Suter1972 wrote: »

With console heading toward ONE TAM next week and given how PC have had a week to get used to the new world, how would PC players suggest I use this time to aid the transition over.

Im concerned about mats being scaled to level. I like to craft set gear in low levels for players under 50 to give them something to spend their gold on (everything seems to be champ 160+)

As this will need to use low level mats to get the level low enough, will I still be able to collect cotton, jute, maple etc etc or will it be tied to my character level. If its tied, will it be the main battle level (ie cp128 currently) or will it be to the level of my craft skill?

Those other players wont be needing to buy as many mats - cuz mats they encounter casually will be scaled to their character and they will find rop-pieces always scaled to their level for either wearing or decon into appropriate materials - so while your crafting service may be cut down a bit by their finding more useful drop gear, wearing more drop-sets than crafted sets - you may also see a significant rise in the "but i have the mats" and reduced demand on you to go harvest for them (and charge them.)

So, all in all, their becoming more self-sufficient on multiple fronts may indeed impact your ability to harvest their gold off them. They may have to find other ways to spend their gold.

JKorr

STEVIL, that works wonders for those crafters who actually charge other players to craft for them.

A lot of us don't.

I don't "harvest" gold off other players. I never have. Other players in my guilds don't do that either. If you want nirn items, you give me the nirn. If you want cp160 gear, you give me the mats. If you want rare styles, you give me the style mats.

Other than that, I charge nothing. If you want gear under cp150-160, and you're willing to take whatever style I have the mats for, and that includes ones like ancient elf/barbaric/primal, I will make your gear for free. I have done so since the game started.

Please leave off the "harvest gold" screed when you try to justify high level/high skill characters not being able to find large amounts of low level mats. Please. It got old a long time ago.

STEVIL

JKorr wrote: »

STEVIL, that works wonders for those crafters who actually charge other players to craft for them.

A lot of us don't.

I don't "harvest" gold off other players. I never have. Other players in my guilds don't do that either. If you want nirn items, you give me the nirn. If you want cp160 gear, you give me the mats. If you want rare styles, you give me the style mats.

Other than that, I charge nothing. If you want gear under cp150-160, and you're willing to take whatever style I have the mats for, and that includes ones like ancient elf/barbaric/primal, I will make your gear for free. I have done so since the game started.

Please leave off the "harvest gold" screed when you try to justify high level/high skill characters not being able to find large amounts of low level mats. Please. It got old a long time ago.

Dear JKorr

Allow me to quote from the quote i was responding to...

" I like to craft set gear in low levels for players under 50 to give them something to spend their gold on"

See where the poster i specifically responded to was saying straight up they charged... see.., see.. here let me bold it for you... can you see it now?

Now let me show you the response...

"So, all in all, their becoming more self-sufficient on multiple fronts may indeed impact your ability to harvest their gold off them. They may have to find other ways to spend their gold."

See where i said the harvest gold thing directly to them... see... see... see... let me bold it for you. Can you see it now?

Did i say it to you, Jkorr? nope.
Did i say it to everyone? nope.
Did i say everyone charges for this? nope.

So frankly, your asking me to leave off the harvest gold thing when i respond directly to a poster who says in their post that they charge for it...Well I really cant see that happening. Can you?

Nestor

OK, Stevil is of the mind set that only end game mats matter, nothing else is worth your time. If that is the case for you, then One Tamriel will be your golden ticket to cheap CP160 gear. For the rest of us who craft for Alts and others players, then low and mid level mats are going to get rare and expensive.

Bottom line, now you have to build a character to farm for a certain level of materials, other than absolute low end, or top end.

Suter1972

Just to clarify my OP as it appears ive hit a nerve with something….

I like to craft 3 /4/ 5 trait set low level green/blue (sometimes purple) gear at low levels, eg 20-50 and stick it in the guild stores for 500g a piece. Usually with training or prosperous traits embedded as that helps new players gain xp or g.

Its not a huge amount so ‘harvesting’ is probably an extreme way of putting it.

The intention is to make a bit of extra G for the guild (I try and donate 30-50K a week) but as a recent noob myself, I found it very disheartening when you scour the starter area guild stores and find nothing but purple cp160 gear.

STEVIL

Nestor wrote: »

OK, Stevil is of the mind set that only end game mats matter, nothing else is worth your time. If that is the case for you, then One Tamriel will be your golden ticket to cheap CP160 gear. For the rest of us who craft for Alts and others players, then low and mid level mats are going to get rare and expensive.

Bottom line, now you have to build a character to farm for a certain level of materials, other than absolute low end, or top end.

Where in my response here did i say anything even remotely similar to what you just ascribed to me?

most of the post was about how lower level and developing characters will get more access to mats and gear at their level and not need to rely on higher level harvesters.

As for alts... as i started running up four more alts recently and started working them with the idea of letting them use what they find as source for mats... except for the initial iron/jute/maple which every non-crafter finds, i have been seeing and am still seeing the flow of mats to be just great for keeping them going and geared.

Before OneT, i made one simple change to my SOP - i started crafting for characters at the end of their tier...

So...

Craft for them at level 3... using the tons of iron/maple/jute
They gather mats of tier-1 during levels 3-14.
Craft for them at level 14 - top-of-tier-1 using the tier 1 mats they gathered during their casual quest play thru levels 3-14. Now they have new stuff, level 14.
They gather tier-2 mats thru their casual runs thru quests for levels 16-24.
Craft for them at 24 for new 24 gear... using those mats they harvested.
lather rinse repeat at 36 and 46 iirc all the tier breaks.

See... See... See... i am not dismissing the value of or importance of lower tier non-cp160 mats. i am emphasizing it.

Now, in thw eeek since Onet the other side of the coin i discuss has also been seen... gear drops at your level and set pieces dropping at your level as you complete quests and delves and dolmens etc... these are all reducing the demand for crafted gear. Didn't need a full craft outfit all new when hit top of tier because had enough drop set peices worth wearing to be fine... especially for gear that will not be worn for that long.

No where is this saying only end game mats matter.

it is recognizing that without the skewed zone-vs-char-level nodes/drops/scraps producing shortages for developing characters and the significant increase in drop-sets at your level whenever found (leading to more use of drop-sets) the demand for crafting in general and especially for crafting with mats supplied by crafter are going down.

See... the lower tier mats matter... matter a lot.. but getting them from others... thats what is mattering a lot less.

that is very much different perspective from "only end game mats matter" and i hope you can see that.

But hey, maybe, maybe not.

Jayne_Doe

I think the change mainly aids players who craft for themselves, which is great. It also does help those who craft for others in that the player requesting gear will be able to more easily supply the mats themselves.

But, time will tell on how it affects the economy, in that players who made money off selling excess mats (myself included), may have to find other ways to make gold in the game. Now, I'm not an avid farmer, but having been around since PC launch, I built up mats as I went along and now have more than I need. So, I sell excess when I need to keep my store slots filled.

It seems that a lot of these changes, while good for crafting as far as individual players crafting for themselves is concerned, aren't that beneficial for crafting as a profession. It's assisting casuals and others who want to craft for themselves, but it's making master crafters more unnecessary. Sure, if you want certain 8-9 trait sets or a particular rare style, master crafters will be necessary, especially for end-game gear. But, not as much for new players, who can get by even more easily now that dropped gear matches their level and many quest rewards are now part of a set. It just seems to make crafting more irrelevant.

Nestor

STEVIL wrote: »

most of the post was about how lower level and developing characters will get more access to mats and gear at their level and not need to rely on higher level harvesters.

Alts can farm, although not as effectively as they could before. Since the Mats are now split between crafting level and character level, so 50% less mat nodes to farm on alts. And, no way they can farm ahead to prepare for that next tier. But, we are not talking about Alts here, we are talking about being able to Farm the mats we want for the times we need to farm them.

My master Crafter is L50, with all Crafts Maxed, and all Material Levels Maxed. I can no longer go and farm on that character for anything but top end mats, so I can't make as much for others as I used to. My 4 other Mains are all max level, with no points in Materials passives, so they either see Lowest level mats or highest level mats, nothing in between. Tell me, how am I going to farm Steel, or Void mats or Fell Hide or any of the other mats? Oh, wait, I have 4 low level mules, but they have no points invested in crafting Materials, so that is out too.

You seem to think all is hunky dory for gather mats for crafting for mid levels, and that is simply not the case. Unless I build a character to farm those specific mats, which requires a full respec of skill points to do this.

Bottom Line, other than lowest level or highest level, Farming for mats is broken in this game now.

disintegr8

I do not think there was anything wrong with the way things were and this change is a mistake.

There are only two possible reasons for this change. To placate those complaining that the cost of materials to make CP160 gear was too high, even though they were too lazy to farm the material themselves, or non crafters complaining that their CP160 wandering around some level 36 area has no use for the nodes they keep coming across.

I have news for these players and ZOS, there are others playing this game that were happy with the way things were - maybe we just were not vocal enough and the noise from the other side was louder.

Everyone has had the opportunity to farm for all of their own material so nobody has had the right to complain that it costs them too much when they choose to be lazy.

As a master crafter doing writs on multiple characters I have always CHOSEN to buy material when I run short and can not be bothered to farm.The ability to go and farm the lower level material was of great benefit to me and people I offered to craft for.

Elsonso

Suter1972 wrote: »

With console heading toward ONE TAM next week and given how PC have had a week to get used to the new world, how would PC players suggest I use this time to aid the transition over.

Im concerned about mats being scaled to level. I like to craft set gear in low levels for players under 50 to give them something to spend their gold on (everything seems to be champ 160+)

As this will need to use low level mats to get the level low enough, will I still be able to collect cotton, jute, maple etc etc or will it be tied to my character level. If its tied, will it be the main battle level (ie cp128 currently) or will it be to the level of my craft skill?

I am getting a ton of Top and Bottom level mats since I have non-crafters that get 50-50 of them. I am getting much less in the middle ranges since my characters do not fall in those ranges, as much. So, I have a ton of Iron, Jute, and Maple, as well as Rubedite, Ancestor Silk, and Ruby Ash. I sell this stuff at Guild Traders. Prices are still fine, at least for now.

ZOS changed the focus of crafting to be character-focused and more single player, although they still allow us to sell the stuff that we collect that everyone else is also collecting. Crafting is really for you and your characters a lot more than it used to be, so I consider it a secondary part of the game. An idle task rather than something people do in the game.

I am not doing equipment writs anymore, since those are just a waste of time building a skill I don't need. I am still doing Alchemy and Provisioning. I stopped leveling Enchanting after the Potency Rune debacle in Dark Brotherhood. Rather than equipment crafting, I have switched to farming sets for personal use. Besides, dropped sets have jewelry and I need matching jewelry because the stars keep telling me my jewelry is out of date.

I think that ZOS wants people to farm sets rather than craft sets. Happy to oblige.

Brrrofski

I've just gone around low level zones and got about 200 of everything up to vet so I got a stock if I want to make gear for an alt.

And also to sell at inflated prices when one Tamriel drops

STEVIL

Nestor wrote: »

Bottom Line, other than lowest level or highest level, Farming for mats is broken in this game now.

broken is such a meaningless term to throw around.

Usually it means "doesnt work like i want it to."
Sometimes it means "doesnt work like it used too so now i have to do things differently."

and in a few rare cases it means "something fails to meet its intended function."

based on just the first week of play (plus the run before to test it) characters can and will tend to gather without dedicated farming time enough mats for crafting for their level stuff. That doesn't seem broken. Sure a character who just refuses to ever pick up a node or never decons a piece of gear and who refuses to wear drop-sets even at his level... they will have shortages... but that doesn't seem broken either. (Go and check some of the twitch streams. the intended game now is to farm SETS... "its about getting that right set piece dropped with the right trait.".)

STEVIL

disintegr8 wrote: »

I do not think there was anything wrong with the way things were and this change is a mistake.

There are only two possible reasons for this change. To placate those complaining that the cost of materials to make CP160 gear was too high, even though they were too lazy to farm the material themselves, or non crafters complaining that their CP160 wandering around some level 36 area has no use for the nodes they keep coming across.

I have news for these players and ZOS, there are others playing this game that were happy with the way things were - maybe we just were not vocal enough and the noise from the other side was louder.

Everyone has had the opportunity to farm for all of their own material so nobody has had the right to complain that it costs them too much when they choose to be lazy.

As a master crafter doing writs on multiple characters I have always CHOSEN to buy material when I run short and can not be bothered to farm.The ability to go and farm the lower level material was of great benefit to me and people I offered to craft for.

I am sure some folks didn't mind how thiungs were.
i am sure some would have benefitted with a OneT where characters being sent all over the place casually harvested useless mats more than ever and had to buy them OR divert casual play-time questing to farming - as that means more buyers, right?

having more folks finding more mats fitting their level/skill in casual play and not only getting rid of the skewed zone-mat-node-char-level silver/gold breakdown and prevent it getting much worse for a "go anywhere anytime scaling content OneT" where there is no link between character level and zone... that would have been a catastrophic mistake.

it would have undercut everything Onet wants to do.. to make every zone useful and playable at any time.

As for the lack of volume from the guys who opposed this change... oh come on... did you read any PTS threads. both sides were pretty loud.

But the key is, as i have pointed out many times, there are several ways other than "manufacture shortages for the casual player by locking down zones mats" to solve the "master crafter cant farm anytime whatever i want" problem.

1. One solution would be to install a farm/mine in each zone where there are nodes of lower types.
2. One would be to allow selling of the lower tier mats at NPC vendors.
3. One i suggested is to let you use the high end tier-10, tier-9 etc to craft any tier lower... remove the bottom of the mat cap. So now, hey, guess what, everywhere anytime your master crafter harvests or farms... he gets something useful for ANY level.

But the "broken" crowd wouldn't get behind these as a rule... they stuck with geo-lock mats for the most part even though that clearly smacks the casual player into needing to buy more mats and of course, as nestor points out, its not like those crafters are upset over losing their money flow.

The "must lock nodes" which will lead to "casual player screwed" reminds me an awful lot of the most dedicated PVP justice guys who object to letting the other players opt-out.

For those concerned with gold harvesting, the lack of demand for crafted items-and-mats (as the game moves into set-drop-at-level set harvesting and gear-drop-at-level-decon and scaled nodes-everywhere) is going to be big. Bu frankly, based on the calloused digitals of my crafters and my swelling inventories - the decon and the sets kept for use are the bigger factors.

That said, IMO what is currently wrong and i keep arguing for a fix is that the new paradigm makes crafted sets basically no longer "the thing you need" and no longer the "better than the rest" to such an extent that its no longer holding true to the goal of making crafting worthwhile. As i look forward for my four lowest alts and look forward for evolving my eight highest, especially for the developing levels of 3-49, i dont see crafting gear as anywhere near as pivotal as it was. i expect that by the time ten levels have passed, the char will have a drop-set thats just fine... not really worth scrapping that for a crafted set that will also be obsolete in 10 more levels... WHY BURN THE QUALITY ITEM?

So IMO, even though of course Nestor says with his telepathy thing about how i think everything is hunky dory.. i want some serious uptciks in the next patch or two for equipment crafting.

Some number of the following IMO are needed to bring equip crafting back to the near the top of the crafted vs drops options:

1. Jewelry crafting since every drop set has jewels now. this is HUGE.
2. Ability to upgrade a crafted piece to higher level and keep the quality since every drop set drops at your current level.
3. Remove the mat lower cap so you can craft lower stuff with whatever you harvest of that level or better.
4. Change equip writs to one item-trait-style item and allow extra items if you dont have style or trait so you spread the resource drain out among the ingredient types just like the consumables do.
5. Enable for crafted sets the ability to swap out one of the 2-3-4 bonus AT CRAFTING with another equal one (where they are the simple numerical bonuses.) This makes crafted sets able to come closer with their smaller numbrs to the variety of the drop-sets.

I like how 1T is playing out and how its planned but they need to IMO continue to evolve the crafting system to keep up with the new core changes.

disintegr8

I do not think I have less than 300 of any crafting material, possibly level 1 and CP160 mats would be the ones I have in shortest supply. Everything else I have between 500 and 7000 of due to the bottomless crafting bag, the fact that I have leveled several alts since it came out and I pick up and deconstruct everything.

This change might mean there is a market for a lot of those supplies but I still think it is a change that was not required. I have been doing daily writs on 6 characters for these reasons:
1. Survey maps (raw mats for both hi level materials, tempers from refining, as well as Craglorn writs for Nirncrux).
2. Gold improvement tempers in the rewards chest.
3. Psijic ambrosia recipe pieces.
4. Kutas.

Number 1 is out the window as the surveys could send me anywhere, so not likely to get nirncrux.
Number 2 will be obsolete as I will harvest everything I see now as it will all be top level nodes and that should supply me with enough improvement items through refining.
3 and 4 might not be viable depending on drop rates if they have changed

So like most other leveled players, I will probably revert to doing the 'non crafting' writs only (ench, prov and maybe alch) once the change comes to console.

Axikal

STEVIL wrote: »

But the "broken" crowd wouldn't get behind these as a rule... they stuck with geo-lock mats for the most part even though that clearly smacks the casual player into needing to buy more mats

What? I'd classify myself as fairly casual, and I was never wanting for low tier mats, never had to buy any, and if I was running low all I had to do was TP from a wayshrine to the proper zone and farm for barely even a half hour to get what I needed. I fail, from my own biased perspective, to see how any casual player could have possibly been forced into needing to purchase mats rather than farm.

This update completely undoes a core component to crafting, as well as cripples the potential for a crafting economy that is balanced and accessible to all players (One Tamriel's goal is player accessibility and ease, no?) in favour of one that requires players to now buy mats they don't have, or make dummies of each tier (impossible) to scav for them for reliable collection.

If anything, the scaling mats update does the literal opposite of your claim and actually locks players into the situation you claim zone mats did. It hurts the crafting economy, as well as Master Crafters and their potential gold income.

Here's hoping ZOS realizes how bad this design choice was and reverses it.

STEVIL

Axikal wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

But the "broken" crowd wouldn't get behind these as a rule... they stuck with geo-lock mats for the most part even though that clearly smacks the casual player into needing to buy more mats

What? I'd classify myself as fairly casual, and I was never wanting for low tier mats, never had to buy any, and if I was running low all I had to do was TP from a wayshrine to the proper zone and farm for barely even a half hour to get what I needed. I fail, from my own biased perspective, to see how any casual player could have possibly been forced into needing to purchase mats rather than farm.

This update completely undoes a core component to crafting, as well as cripples the potential for a crafting economy that is balanced and accessible to all players (One Tamriel's goal is player accessibility and ease, no?) in favour of one that requires players to now buy mats they don't have, or make dummies of each tier (impossible) to scav for them for reliable collection.

If anything, the scaling mats update does the literal opposite of your claim and actually locks players into the situation you claim zone mats did. It hurts the crafting economy, as well as Master Crafters and their potential gold income.

Here's hoping ZOS realizes how bad this design choice was and reverses it.

First, please fix you post as it falsely attributes you opinions to me.
Second, i have now run multiple characters up thru the post 1T system and in no way was i ever even tempted to buy mats for those characters OR to have them go off content to spend game time farming/harvesting.. By runing content directly, casually gathering what i came across, with all those drop sets, decon gear etc... was a cinch to keep character in gear.

The difference in our viewpoints at oneblevel seems to be whether one feels time specifcally off seeking mats in prior completed non-questing zones is good or an example of what your average gamer wants to do.

This new 1T order lets the character just wanting to run quests and content to get plenty of stuff and mats as they advance thru the developing levels without taking time to go farm or buy.

It makes the SKILL the commodity.

That said, if you pay attention, i have no problem with adjusting 1T to allow players to further control THEIR node settings or to more simply use mats to craft lower level gear. Both fit the 1T model of every node useful.

But the ideas of lock other people into your preferred node structure - that serms more concerned about reducing thier options.

Axikal

STEVIL wrote: »

First, please fix you post as it falsely attributes you opinions to me.

What? Please show me where my opinion is being attributed to you. That literally doesn't even make sense.

You claim that casual players were being forced into buying new mats under the old design, and you were incorrect. Not only that, but as a casual player I never felt any of the problems you tried to attribute to players such as I, and frankly I take great offense to you speaking on my behalf. So don't.

Second, i have now run multiple characters up thru the post 1T system and in no way was i ever even tempted to buy mats for those characters OR to have them go off content to spend game time farming/harvesting.. By runing content directly, casually gathering what i came across, with all those drop sets, decon gear etc... was a cinch to keep character in gear.

And I, having played since the early alpha, have never had a problem nor need to buy any mats with Zone Based Mats. Now that I cannot farm any mats other than my level's, I am being forced to either reroll low level chars (which will only last so long, and ultimately becomes a massive nusiance), or buy those mats from traders if I intend to make armour for other players of a lower level.

The reason this is bothersome to me is that I am building my character to be a storefront for weapon/armour sets and such for all levels, as well as newcomers and oldbies alike. Meaning that I need access to ALL mats at any given time if I am going to be able to run my "business" appropriately without having to inflate prices FURTHER because of an imbalanced mat farming ecosystem. My time and "labour" are now doubled because of the extra effort needed to obtain simple materials that were otherwise low-cost items. Now, anything from the 1-14 levels are going to cost a metric *** just because of the ridiculous degree of time and effort needed to farm them (versus just booting up Stonefalls and getting what I need).

It's not accessible in any way, which is the opposite of what ZOS has expressed they wanted for 1T: accessibility. Here's a breakdown:

Zone Mat Farming:

1: Go to zone that matches the level of the mats you want to farm
2: Farm mats

Level Mat Farming:

1: Make new character
2: Level character up to appropriate level of mats you want to farm
3: Farm mats
4: Either repeat step 1, or delete a char and roll a new one and continue from step 2 based on mat needs

ZMF takes less time, and is more accessible out the gate, while LMF requires more time, less reward, and is completely nonsensical.

This new 1T order lets the character just wanting to run quests and content to get plenty of stuff and mats as they advance thru the developing levels without taking time to go farm or buy.

Zone Mats did that too. You could go to any zone at any time and farm the mats you needed there. There was nothing wrong with the Zone Mat design. Level Mat design gimps options and gates off valuable content because reasons.

It makes the SKILL the commodity.

You're kidding, right? Making a new char over and over to farm lvl 1-14 mats = skill? Come on mate. The commodity now are really low level mats since most long-time players no longer have access to them. This imbalanced the in-game economy in favour of low-tier mats by making them harder to get with the new update.

That said, if you pay attention, i have no problem with adjusting 1T to allow players to further control THEIR node settings or to more simply use mats to craft lower level gear. Both fit the 1T model of every node useful.

Iluvrien had the best response and idea for mats, and I stand firmly by it.

Iluvrien wrote: »

Why not tie it to location? I don't mean zone. I mean have the materials reflect the actual physical location in-game. Are you in a birch grove? Then make it spawn birch, irrespective of what zone that grove is in.

It seems like OT is a step in the sandbox direction, then why not do the job properly? Don't make nodes scale. Make them reflect the geographical features that actially surround them.

This or the original zone based mat system work better for everyone.

But the ideas of lock other people into your preferred node structure - that serms more concerned about reducing thier options.

Kinda funny since the old method gave players the chance to farm any and all mats from any related zone, and the new method gates players out of materials and content, and forces them to either waste gold and time on respec (reallocating skill points over and over is not conducive to efficient gameplay or accessibility), or waste time rolling new chars and rehashing old quests just for mats they used to have access to. It literally convolutes a really simple system, and makes it more cumbersome and less rewarding. But please tell me more about how reverting to Zone Based Mats reduces options but Level Based Mats opens them up.

Hadan_of_Rift wrote: »

And this is what creates the problem I am talking about. I shouldn't have to delete a character or respec a character to be able to farm my own materials.

Elsonso

Axikal wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

First, please fix you post as it falsely attributes you opinions to me.

What? Please show me where my opinion is being attributed to you. That literally doesn't even make sense.

You claim that casual players were being forced into buying new mats under the old design, and you were incorrect. Not only that, but as a casual player I never felt any of the problems you tried to attribute to players such as I, and frankly I take great offense to you speaking on my behalf. So don't.

Second, i have now run multiple characters up thru the post 1T system and in no way was i ever even tempted to buy mats for those characters OR to have them go off content to spend game time farming/harvesting.. By runing content directly, casually gathering what i came across, with all those drop sets, decon gear etc... was a cinch to keep character in gear.

And I, having played since the early alpha, have never had a problem nor need to buy any mats with Zone Based Mats. Now that I cannot farm any mats other than my level's, I am being forced to either reroll low level chars (which will only last so long, and ultimately becomes a massive nusiance), or buy those mats from traders if I intend to make armour for other players of a lower level.

The reason this is bothersome to me is that I am building my character to be a storefront for weapon/armour sets and such for all levels, as well as newcomers and oldbies alike. Meaning that I need access to ALL mats at any given time if I am going to be able to run my "business" appropriately without having to inflate prices FURTHER because of an imbalanced mat farming ecosystem. My time and "labour" are now doubled because of the extra effort needed to obtain simple materials that were otherwise low-cost items. Now, anything from the 1-14 levels are going to cost a metric *** just because of the ridiculous degree of time and effort needed to farm them (versus just booting up Stonefalls and getting what I need).

It's not accessible in any way, which is the opposite of what ZOS has expressed they wanted for 1T: accessibility. Here's a breakdown:

Zone Mat Farming:

1: Go to zone that matches the level of the mats you want to farm
2: Farm mats

Level Mat Farming:

1: Make new character
2: Level character up to appropriate level of mats you want to farm
3: Farm mats
4: Either repeat step 1, or delete a char and roll a new one and continue from step 2 based on mat needs

ZMF takes less time, and is more accessible out the gate, while LMF requires more time, less reward, and is completely nonsensical.

This new 1T order lets the character just wanting to run quests and content to get plenty of stuff and mats as they advance thru the developing levels without taking time to go farm or buy.

Zone Mats did that too. You could go to any zone at any time and farm the mats you needed there. There was nothing wrong with the Zone Mat design. Level Mat design gimps options and gates off valuable content because reasons.

It makes the SKILL the commodity.

You're kidding, right? Making a new char over and over to farm lvl 1-14 mats = skill? Come on mate. The commodity now are really low level mats since most long-time players no longer have access to them. This imbalanced the in-game economy in favour of low-tier mats by making them harder to get with the new update.

That said, if you pay attention, i have no problem with adjusting 1T to allow players to further control THEIR node settings or to more simply use mats to craft lower level gear. Both fit the 1T model of every node useful.

Iluvrien had the best response and idea for mats, and I stand firmly by it.

Iluvrien wrote: »

Why not tie it to location? I don't mean zone. I mean have the materials reflect the actual physical location in-game. Are you in a birch grove? Then make it spawn birch, irrespective of what zone that grove is in.

It seems like OT is a step in the sandbox direction, then why not do the job properly? Don't make nodes scale. Make them reflect the geographical features that actially surround them.

This or the original zone based mat system work better for everyone.

But the ideas of lock other people into your preferred node structure - that serms more concerned about reducing thier options.

Kinda funny since the old method gave players the chance to farm any and all mats from any related zone, and the new method gates players out of materials and content, and forces them to either waste gold and time on respec (literally wasting time reallocating skill points over and over, or waste time rolling new chars and rehashing old quests just for mats they used to have access to. It literally convolutes a really simple system, and makes it more cumbersome and less rewarding. But please tell me more about how reverting to Zone Based Mats reduces options but Level Based Mats opens them up.

Hadan_of_Rift wrote: »

And this is what creates the problem I am talking about. I shouldn't have to delete a character or respec a character to be able to farm my own materials.

Sigh. Yup.

It is my hope that ZOS will look at what they have done, realize how incorrect it is, and fix it so that mats are handled in a reasonable, logical, open-world RPG manner. We have One Tamriel. We can literally go to any available Tamrielic zone, outside of Cyrodiil, at any time. It is silly that, everywhere we go, we find only Ancestor Silk, Rubedite Ore, and Ruby Ash.

Anyway, not holding my breath. Fixing stuff like this cost money.

Nestor

Just this morning two guild mates were asking for gear to be made. First question I asked them is, do you have mats. Why, because I don't, because I can't farm them. Guess what, they could not get any. So, two guildmates who wanted gear but could not get any because they had no mats. Sure, they have to go off and farm them, but how does that make for a better game? It certainly does not make for a better guild relationship. I would have bought the mats and donated them to the players, but guess what, I could not find any in the guild stores that I looked in. Before, I could find most mats I needed in one trading hub.

I may or may not have any emails in my inbox with any mats to make them the gear when I get home from work. But, this will certainly delay them getting gear by more than 12 hours (I get up early)

I am liking this new way of scaling mats less and less each day, and I did not like it much to begin with.

STEVIL

Axikal wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

First, please fix you post as it falsely attributes you opinions to me.

What? Please show me where my opinion is being attributed to you. That literally doesn't even make sense.

Ok, so now you are playing post then edit after response and deny games?

My post #17 made 11-15 at 157am referenced your earlier post where your cite showed me as saying what you were saying.

it was in reference to your post 316.

Then at 5:35 pm you edit you post and now pretend there wasn't an issue because the new edited clean up doesn't show what the original did?

Right...

Thanks for the cleanup of your post.

it is appreciated.

But for the after edit then deny games, not worth my time.

STEVIL

Nestor wrote: »

Just this morning two guild mates were asking for gear to be made. First question I asked them is, do you have mats. Why, because I don't, because I can't farm them. Guess what, they could not get any. So, two guildmates who wanted gear but could not get any because they had no mats. Sure, they have to go off and farm them, but how does that make for a better game? It certainly does not make for a better guild relationship. I would have bought the mats and donated them to the players, but guess what, I could not find any in the guild stores that I looked in. Before, I could find most mats I needed in one trading hub.

I may or may not have any emails in my inbox with any mats to make them the gear when I get home from work. But, this will certainly delay them getting gear by more than 12 hours (I get up early)

I am liking this new way of scaling mats less and less each day, and I did not like it much to begin with.

How is it better than before - most people gain useful mats everywhere they go, anywhere anytime.

just because your particular neck of play is affected adversely doesn't mean the whole is worse than it was before.

really, it doesn't

my bet is for every "nestor gets request after 1t for players and he doesn't have mats" you got so far i can post a dozen "stevil did not run content in 10-15 zones because the lack of useful scaled rewards made it mostly useless compared to the few zones scaled right.

I can also say that ever since 1t i have revisted those other zreas daily with different characters and thats possible and worthwhile BECAUSE the nodes now scale to the character.

You may need to consider that it can be a better game for lots and lots and lots of folks even if its not for you and some guildmates before next time you start asking about "better game".

But to address your issues many including i have suggested allowing crafters tyo use any higher level mats to craft lower gear OR to allow higher level crafters to "dial -in" their level for "harvest" to their max or lower - so they can harvest anywhere and get whatever they want.

IE give your guy more options.

As opposed to resetting things back tot the old-geo-political scaling which is aimed at taking useful nodes everywhere from everybody.

STEVIL

lordrichter wrote: »

Axikal wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

First, please fix you post as it falsely attributes you opinions to me.

What? Please show me where my opinion is being attributed to you. That literally doesn't even make sense.

You claim that casual players were being forced into buying new mats under the old design, and you were incorrect. Not only that, but as a casual player I never felt any of the problems you tried to attribute to players such as I, and frankly I take great offense to you speaking on my behalf. So don't.

Second, i have now run multiple characters up thru the post 1T system and in no way was i ever even tempted to buy mats for those characters OR to have them go off content to spend game time farming/harvesting.. By runing content directly, casually gathering what i came across, with all those drop sets, decon gear etc... was a cinch to keep character in gear.

And I, having played since the early alpha, have never had a problem nor need to buy any mats with Zone Based Mats. Now that I cannot farm any mats other than my level's, I am being forced to either reroll low level chars (which will only last so long, and ultimately becomes a massive nusiance), or buy those mats from traders if I intend to make armour for other players of a lower level.

The reason this is bothersome to me is that I am building my character to be a storefront for weapon/armour sets and such for all levels, as well as newcomers and oldbies alike. Meaning that I need access to ALL mats at any given time if I am going to be able to run my "business" appropriately without having to inflate prices FURTHER because of an imbalanced mat farming ecosystem. My time and "labour" are now doubled because of the extra effort needed to obtain simple materials that were otherwise low-cost items. Now, anything from the 1-14 levels are going to cost a metric *** just because of the ridiculous degree of time and effort needed to farm them (versus just booting up Stonefalls and getting what I need).

It's not accessible in any way, which is the opposite of what ZOS has expressed they wanted for 1T: accessibility. Here's a breakdown:

Zone Mat Farming:

1: Go to zone that matches the level of the mats you want to farm
2: Farm mats

Level Mat Farming:

1: Make new character
2: Level character up to appropriate level of mats you want to farm
3: Farm mats
4: Either repeat step 1, or delete a char and roll a new one and continue from step 2 based on mat needs

ZMF takes less time, and is more accessible out the gate, while LMF requires more time, less reward, and is completely nonsensical.

This new 1T order lets the character just wanting to run quests and content to get plenty of stuff and mats as they advance thru the developing levels without taking time to go farm or buy.

Zone Mats did that too. You could go to any zone at any time and farm the mats you needed there. There was nothing wrong with the Zone Mat design. Level Mat design gimps options and gates off valuable content because reasons.

It makes the SKILL the commodity.

You're kidding, right? Making a new char over and over to farm lvl 1-14 mats = skill? Come on mate. The commodity now are really low level mats since most long-time players no longer have access to them. This imbalanced the in-game economy in favour of low-tier mats by making them harder to get with the new update.

That said, if you pay attention, i have no problem with adjusting 1T to allow players to further control THEIR node settings or to more simply use mats to craft lower level gear. Both fit the 1T model of every node useful.

Iluvrien had the best response and idea for mats, and I stand firmly by it.

Iluvrien wrote: »

Why not tie it to location? I don't mean zone. I mean have the materials reflect the actual physical location in-game. Are you in a birch grove? Then make it spawn birch, irrespective of what zone that grove is in.

It seems like OT is a step in the sandbox direction, then why not do the job properly? Don't make nodes scale. Make them reflect the geographical features that actially surround them.

This or the original zone based mat system work better for everyone.

But the ideas of lock other people into your preferred node structure - that serms more concerned about reducing thier options.

Kinda funny since the old method gave players the chance to farm any and all mats from any related zone, and the new method gates players out of materials and content, and forces them to either waste gold and time on respec (literally wasting time reallocating skill points over and over, or waste time rolling new chars and rehashing old quests just for mats they used to have access to. It literally convolutes a really simple system, and makes it more cumbersome and less rewarding. But please tell me more about how reverting to Zone Based Mats reduces options but Level Based Mats opens them up.

Hadan_of_Rift wrote: »

And this is what creates the problem I am talking about. I shouldn't have to delete a character or respec a character to be able to farm my own materials.

Sigh. Yup.

It is my hope that ZOS will look at what they have done, realize how incorrect it is, and fix it so that mats are handled in a reasonable, logical, open-world RPG manner. We have One Tamriel. We can literally go to any available Tamrielic zone, outside of Cyrodiil, at any time. It is silly that, everywhere we go, we find only Ancestor Silk, Rubedite Ore, and Ruby Ash.

Anyway, not holding my breath. Fixing stuff like this cost money.

I agree they need to adjust it, i think its a fairly easy fix to answer these crafter issues.

My bet is we will see 1t equip crafting adjusted in u14 or sooner.

But really, they need to finish the 1t crafting changeover.

Character based scaling was great but its not sufficient alone, esp with the drop sets scaling as well and the increase in drop sets.

My default recommendation is the following and item 3 deals with the mats levels lower thingy. (Though a dial-down harvest can work too tho at the expense of inventory needlessly)

To include some or all of:

1. Ability to craft jewels for the sets even if quality limited to purple. (All drops have jewel options)
2. Ability to up-scale pieces to higher level keeping quality. (new drops scale to you)
3. Ability to craft lower gear with higher mat, losing the lower cap on met levels. (Fits with scaled nodes)
4. Writs to ask for ONE item with a specific trait and style, but allow more items if you dont have trait/style. (cost effective change spreads resource cost over item types.)
5. Writs no longer assign a material type or tier, but instead base their rewards on the tier the crafter used to satisfy the writ. if they provide iron dagger with sharpened and dunmer style, the gold, gear pieces and the 25pc mat box would be based off iron AND the chance of survey goes up as they provide higher tier payouts.
6. Ability to change one of a set 2-3-4 pc bonus for another bonus of the same 2-3-4 pc type at time of crafting. (Allows for greater versatility without inventing new sets a plenty. Also can help some lesser sets.)
7. Drop the 10x mats cost for CP160 over Cp150. (CP 160 drops everywhere now... its no longer s special threshold thing anymore. if you are cp160 every drop set is cp 160 not nine 150 and one 160. So the need for cp160 crafting to be 10x is no longer relevant.)

Not all of these my own but i think they go a long way for forming a comprehensive 1T upgrade/rebalance of equip crafted.

I am not a fan of just chasing the same dragon by trying to fix it by adding some more pre-defined sets here and there.

While i think all of these are worthwhile, i think 1-2-3 are critically important.

1t started the process, just needs to be carried through fully into crafted equipment.

aldriq

If it was just for armor and weapons I would agree that the new system is just a mild inconvenience – if new players have to go and do some farming for mats, well, they do plenty of farming for dropped sets anyway; mid-tier mats going up to 16 gold per unit while top-tier ones go down to 8g is hardly economy-breaking.

However, with housing and furniture-crafting coming next year I can only see the pressure in demand growing if the system is left as is. Just imagine, if a shield takes 7-9 units of wood, your average bed or wardrobe will likely need 5 to 10 times that. And the materials will be wanted by texture and colour, not by level, so it's anyone's guess if demand will be uniform across all mats or greatly skewed in favour of a few... I do hope they are considering a more balanced system and not actively introducing this scarcity as an excuse to flog mats in the crown store crates.

STEVIL

I will worry about furniture system crafting when we have any reasonable info on it.
I will worry about black helocopter crown crates delivered by the new world order wrapped in fake moon launch film when that happens too.

Axikal

STEVIL wrote: »

Ok, so now you are playing post then edit after response and deny games?

What? What does this sentence even mean?

My post #17 made 11-15 at 157am referenced your earlier post where your cite showed me as saying what you were saying.

it was in reference to your post 316.

Then at 5:35 pm you edit you post and now pretend there wasn't an issue because the new edited clean up doesn't show what the original did?

Right...

You mean: this? Where I accidentally had an extra quote in my post that I forgot to remove prior to posting, and then removed after I caught it (hence the edit)? That's what you're so upset about? Grow up. All that happened was an extra quote. I didn't attribute something I said to you, or misquote you. So stop.

Also, I was directly quoting something you said, right here.

Thanks for the cleanup of your post.

it is appreciated.

But for the after edit then deny games, not worth my time.

Grow. Up. Seriously.

If you're going to derail a thread over literally nothing just to avoid discussing the issue maturely, perhaps you should leave the discussion so others can go about it the appropriate way.

Thanks.

Also, this thread is about low-tier mats and the new mat farming system and how to fix or adjust them to better suit players and the new direction of the game, not what we'd like to see added to the game or revamping other aspects of crafting. Please stay on topic. If you got a thread of your own about those ideas I'd be thrilled to discuss them, but you're derailing the discussion repeatedly and it's frustrating. So I'll focus on just the proposals you've made that are relevant to the thread and hope you'll do the same:

STEVIL wrote: »

1. Ability to up-scale pieces to higher level keeping quality. (new drops scale to you)
2. Ability to craft lower gear with higher mat, losing the lower cap on met levels. (Fits with scaled nodes)

For point 1 (listed here), what is the intended purpose? How does this work? What do you use to upscale? Higher tier mats? What is the need to take low-tier gear and make it higher when you can just craft a higher gear item and get better results? Would you gain a higher Armour/Resistance result than a base crafted item of that level?

(ex. Base level 40 item nets an Armour of 500 and Resistance bonuses of 1600 {not real, just a random number for this case}, if you upgrade a level 30 item to a 40 the output would be Armour of 730 with Resistance bonuses of 2400)?

If that, then I could see this benefiting the current state of mat farming. But even if this is intended to better utilize the insane amount of high-tier mats we now have, well I have one other question: if you cannot obtain low-tier mats, how do you obtain low-tier equipment (that scales to players too) to upgrade it with high-tier mats?

It's a good idea in theory, but in practise it doesn't make much sense nor could it work unless you were again using dummy chars to farm low-tier gear, and in that case wouldn't you just farm low-tier mats and make the gear that way?

As for point 2 (listed here), wouldn't this just completely make low-tier mats useless? I know you're trying to present ideas to balance the system, and I appreciate it, but this idea really kinda undoes the entire point of needing specific mats for specific levels.

It's a start, but in practise I don't think either option really works nor would they fix the problem.

lordrichter wrote: »

Sigh. Yup.

It is my hope that ZOS will look at what they have done, realize how incorrect it is, and fix it so that mats are handled in a reasonable, logical, open-world RPG manner. We have One Tamriel. We can literally go to any available Tamrielic zone, outside of Cyrodiil, at any time. It is silly that, everywhere we go, we find only Ancestor Silk, Rubedite Ore, and Ruby Ash.

Anyway, not holding my breath. Fixing stuff like this cost money.

If it causes enough problems in the playerbase there is a chance of them fixing it. Then again I've had the same problem where my character goes blurry when I try to dye my armour and ZOS has yet to fix it after 2 reports on it. >__>

One can hope.

aldriq

STEVIL wrote: »

I will worry about furniture system crafting when we have any reasonable info on it.
I will worry about black helocopter crown crates delivered by the new world order wrapped in fake moon launch film when that happens too.

You can worry a little or a lot, but you can't leave these two upcoming features out of the discussion on crafting and how it'll work in One Tamriel. Any changes they make to crafting in update 13 will be heavily determined by the dynamics of furniture crafting and the crown crates.

Exhibit A: your proposal to remove the lower cap on crafting (which, I agree, would be the simplest and most efficient way to solve a lot of existing complaints) – but if furniture crafting is going to keep the strict link between material and crafted result then I honestly see very little chance of the crafting UI being changed to allow cap on furniture and no cap on gear.

Exhibit B: I don't have to dream of daedric unicorns to see the impact on crafting and the economy that the combined effect of crown crates and artificial scarcity will have: we already caught a glimpse this week with the aetherial dust and the new recipe; with the same ease they added mat boxes to writ rewards they can add them to the crates. And make no mistake, this time they don't even have to lower supply – if furniture takes just one third of all material demand the scarcity will be real.

Of course, they can always double or triple node yield of mats if need be, or even make some mats available for sale at merchants, but why miss this chance to make the crates a little bit more attractive?

STEVIL

aldriq wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

I will worry about furniture system crafting when we have any reasonable info on it.
I will worry about black helocopter crown crates delivered by the new world order wrapped in fake moon launch film when that happens too.

You can worry a little or a lot, but you can't leave these two upcoming features out of the discussion on crafting and how it'll work in One Tamriel. Any changes they make to crafting in update 13 will be heavily determined by the dynamics of furniture crafting and the crown crates.

Exhibit A: your proposal to remove the lower cap on crafting (which, I agree, would be the simplest and most efficient way to solve a lot of existing complaints) – but if furniture crafting is going to keep the strict link between material and crafted result then I honestly see very little chance of the crafting UI being changed to allow cap on furniture and no cap on gear.

Exhibit B: I don't have to dream of daedric unicorns to see the impact on crafting and the economy that the combined effect of crown crates and artificial scarcity will have: we already caught a glimpse this week with the aetherial dust and the new recipe; with the same ease they added mat boxes to writ rewards they can add them to the crates. And make no mistake, this time they don't even have to lower supply – if furniture takes just one third of all material demand the scarcity will be real.

Of course, they can always double or triple node yield of mats if need be, or even make some mats available for sale at merchants, but why miss this chance to make the crates a little bit more attractive?

It is good to see that the stretching needed to get to how big this "problem" is involves now inventing new future conflicts from rules and systems not even given a single example.

add in the typical dollop of crown store evil and there you go.

Nestor

STEVIL wrote: »

my bet is for every "nestor gets request after 1t for players and he doesn't have mats" you got so far i can post a dozen "stevil did not run content in 10-15 zones because the lack of useful scaled rewards made it mostly useless compared to the few zones scaled right.

I ran the content on 5 characters and I was never overleveled for it. Just because you ground out levels rather than ran content does not make the current crafting scheme better. Oh, and the rewards for the content back then were no great shakes anyway even if you were on level, so this is a weak argument. Besides, what does your overleveling yourself to the content have to do with crafting mats? Nothing. Your just making an illogical argument that has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Bottom line, before One Tamriel, I could find and acquire mats of any level. Now I can't and it affects my game play, and what I can do for other players. I know you only want to see top end mats in the game and nothing else. It is clear from your posts. I am glad the crafting system makes you giddy and happy now. At least someone is.

Vyle_Byte

As someone who plays and runs a BWB guild specifically, I can say the system as it is right now is jacked. We bring in many new players, we also reroll characters all the time. I am a master crafter and a serious farmer, I kinda have to be. I now find myself in a pickle when needing to gear up our guildies and new players.

I cannot just go farming on a low lvl character - all i would get is iron... And I cannot get the materials I need on my farmer as she is maxed out, I tried to respec, cost me tons of gold and time putting all those damn points back in and then... i have to choose which 'level' of material. This is bad and does not work out well.

My point is only this, not everyone in game is all about max level materials. There are people with needs and with the way material scaling is atm these needs are not being met. We need a better option for harvesting. We need options. Period.

STEVIL

Nestor wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

my bet is for every "nestor gets request after 1t for players and he doesn't have mats" you got so far i can post a dozen "stevil did not run content in 10-15 zones because the lack of useful scaled rewards made it mostly useless compared to the few zones scaled right.

I ran the content on 5 characters and I was never overleveled for it. Just because you ground out levels rather than ran content does not make the current crafting scheme better. Oh, and the rewards for the content back then were no great shakes anyway even if you were on level, so this is a weak argument. Besides, what does your overleveling yourself to the content have to do with crafting mats? Nothing. Your just making an illogical argument that has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Bottom line, before One Tamriel, I could find and acquire mats of any level. Now I can't and it affects my game play, and what I can do for other players. I know you only want to see top end mats in the game and nothing else. It is clear from your posts. I am glad the crafting system makes you giddy and happy now. At least someone is.

First point: I know you must have just missed it but before 1T (after vet drop) when you hit 50 you jumped up to your cp account wide level.

Do you recall that nestor.

is it ringing any bells.

if you or i ran 5 levels straight thru after they dropped Vet levels, we jumped to whatever our account cp was.

That wasn't because you or i ground out anything.

it was how the system worked.

Suddenly if i magically timed hitting 50 at the death of molag bal, i jumped from level 49 in level 49 nodes and content to being Cp160+ with the next 5-10 zones being lower nodes. Even in the gold zones a lot of the drops/nodes were set to tier 9.

Now, when i got my khajiit to 50 after 1T all the content still undone is scaled and all of its drops are scaled and so i can do any of it with equal gains as far as relevance to me.

So that is one way this "makes for a better game" and specifically refers to nodes and specifically has nothing to do with grinding for overleveling at all.

maybe you never had this happen to you.
maybe you haven't 50ed a character since vet levels went away and so dont know what that did first hand to the "why bother with this content" feel.
if so that explains a lot.

But me, i leveled chars to 50 and beyond to vet 16 when vets were the norm pre-vet-gone-cp-gear/nodes.
i leveled characters to 50 and leapfrog during the vet-gone cp-leapfrog-at-50 days pre-1T.
I leveled char to 50 after 1T came in with its scaled nodes everywhere.

having experienced all three from that "just turned 50" i can say how does this a batter game make is grossly obvious. 1t has the best flat out "hit 50 then what" experience and play over all the previous iterations of this game's nodes.

But if you did level a character to 50 after vet-gone before 1t, that makes your response very baffling given you stuff in the presumtion of overleveling by grinding knowing what used to happen at 50.

As for the bold...

I never said or implied i wanted to see only top tier mats in the game. Not once. you make that up frequently tho. I have supported both allowing high end crafters more flexibility to use mats for lower level crafting and even allowing high end crafter to dial-in their harvesting level if they wanted too (though the second is not my preferred.) I prefer to solve even small population problems by adding options to those having problems rather than changing things to take away benefits that work for many from everyone else.

Also, as i have said here and in many threads the current equip crafting setup right now is flawed and needs it "finish" to give complete 1T upgrades to the crafting like they did for drop sets and nodes. So again your giddy and happy about crafting comment seems just made up, not reflective of what has been said.

I think:
We both agree the current system is flawed.
We both agree it serves some well and not others in some way.
We may disagree on whether the "problem" is the nodes scaling themselves for everyone or the limited options for the crafters and whether the best solution is to change things for everyone or just add options for the crafters to accomodate.
We may disagree on whether the node things is the bigger problem affecting crafting or not - i think its really more the current drop-set mechanics reduce the value of crafting well below its cost in skill and time until they get around to provide 1t style upticks to equip crafting as well. the "need" for crafted equip has been seriously diminished because the benefits of crafted gear did not change to match the benefits gained by drop sets in 1T. (As i have said, give you all the nodes you want - the demand is going down.)

But i dont feel the need to paint you as more extreme than you have said or even attribute positions to you that are just flat out contradictory to what you have said.

So when you resort to this
I know you only want to see top end mats in the game and nothing else. It is clear from your posts. I am glad the crafting system makes you giddy and happy now. At least someone is. I have to wonder if that is just you or if that comes from Community Ambassador status/training?