My Character is Leveling Down Instead of Up

RavenSworn

The way I see it, 1-50 is just something that new players need to go through and learn their class. What they can do, what they can wear and such. Casual or not, rp or not, you can always 'optimise' your build during these phases. But just as irl where if you train yourself to gain the skills of a plumber, you can't expect yourself to be proficient in cobbling. It just doesn't work that way.

So as you gain levels, you gain 'insight' on your class, you gain more power in terms of skills, in terms of attributes and cp. You gain horizontal levelling as oppose to vertical progression.

ZoS has to take this to consideration as a higher level, high cp char with the right gear and build will definitely mow through the mobs. Because it's expected you will learn better rotation even as a casual player.

Granted the scaling might not be perfect but it's really up to the player to find the right combination of skills.

I've done two man's questing and public dungeons and I find a healer/dps with tank/dps combination works tremendously well. Again, it's depending on the builds you use. And I don't even play an hour a day sometimes.

The 'l2p' issue is bad and I don't condone it but there are times when you have to take a step back and see what could be better for the both of you. Is it a change of gear? A change of builds? And if you find taking abit too long to kill a mob, how about taking it in a different angle. Maybe lure it to a setup trap? Maybe if you can handle the damage, let your healer be dps and burst through and vice versa?

bantad87

Dede_Bug wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

Daniel_Malloy wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

You are "overscaled" at low level to compensate for the lack of skills and skillpoints and the abilities and passives that go with them.

Then tell me, at what point do we ACTUALLY see our "normal" scale? Is it at level 10? This seems logical as it is where you can now enter PvP. Is it ACTUALLY level 50? Are we all screwed until we reach the baseline of CP 160? What happens when you reach CP level 561 then?... We can go on...

Yes you are all screwed untill you get at least 160 cp. Thats the gear max lvl.

Finally a straight forward honest answer!

Though I'm starting to think that the feeling that my character is digressing rather then progressing is so disheartening that it might not be worth the time, trouble, frustration and annoyance to reach CP 160 to test this theory.

You're going to reach CP 160, get a couple sets of gear, and feel that sense of power you're craving. Promise.

Victos

Dede_Bug wrote: »

@Victos

If you are so adamant that he is wrong and "comparing apples to oranges" then let's see your proof.

You still don't seem to be reading the content that you are commenting on. Not everyone wants to play your way and as for your comments being helpfully or constructive they're not. You come of as an egotistical competitive gamer who has no concept of fun and casual. Try going back and actual read what others have said before going of on what can be akin to a temper tantrum ti-raid.

Once again I reiterate that this kind of behavior is contour productive to the issue!

How about answering the question @sadownik posted to you? The purpose of this thread is to help those struggling and to show them that they are not alone in this seemingly never ending uphill battle.

Sorry what?

What does my playstyle have to do with his artificial and faulty comparison? And since when do I need to bring proof (which I actually did several times - read my comments) when the OP contains the claims?

Have you ever worked in the science department? I guess you didn't because one would get fired if one published something as flawed as this.

All I said was that if I can hit lvl 50 - thereby must have been lvl 49 - the level OP compares his lvl 4 to - in a heartbeat while wearing completely outleveled gear (which lvl 49 wears lvl 6 gear and lvl 38 weapons? None! ) then someone in drop gear sure as hell can kill normal mobs and feel a sense of progression.

One simply can't artificially create a situation that hardly biased to the statement one tries to make and pretend it's a correct comparison.

On top of that I already said that as soon as I come home, which will be in a few days, I'll start a character just for the purpose of showing that this is flawed beyond redemption.

I love people talking about ZOS logic while being unable to provide a logically flawless foundation on their own.

On top of that: my behaviour isn't productive? I've shown him how to fix his damage problem by providing armour examples that he could get literally for free within 10 minutes.
I've shown him that the way he compares the buffed state to the unbuffed one is flawed and I even said how he is able to provide real data.

I even said I will look further into it if he provides actual live data of his lvl 49 character!

And you're here questioning my ability to read and help?

You're the one completely misinterpreting the OP while jumping on his claims without further investigation. Have you even sat down, watched the video and calculated the differences, that cause the OP's situation? Oh wait - you didn't. You just assumed he must be right because he provided "video proof" that explains his situation - while it doesn't.

There is simply no way that a lvl 4 character is overall stronger (that is what progression stands for) than a lvl 49 one - unless one artificially designed a situation for that to happen.

A lvl 4 char has no access to most if not all class and weapon inherent self buffs. As we're talking about character progression in a small scale scenario - these are of high value and are part of progression AND part of what the buff compensates for.

A fresh lvl 4 doesn't have access to anything but white gear as he doesn't have any gold. A lvl 49 - deconstructing his drops and selling everything he doesn't need does have some gold.

A lvl 49 should at least run around in full green if not full blue with some parts purple.

Just for you I will - when I get home - start a new character and do as follows:
- no cp
- no gold from other characters
- no crafting (as I don't know which materials dropped and which didn't)
- dragon knight (as I've never played one myself)
- I'll document my stats at several levels - maybe even each and every single one
- completely solo no help allowed

And I would even go as far as YOU are the one deciding how I spend my points, which armour type to focus on and which weapon types.

This should provide a solid and comparable foundation to investigate. If after THAT progress one is able to determine a huge difference in stats AND no sense of progression (thereby no overall strength increase) - THEN OP is right.

I wouldn't even have to do this because - again - I'm not the one claiming stuff - OP is.

Oh and to your information I've hit cp 327 1.5 days ago. And I guess now you're jumping on me and saying "oh yeah 327 then everything is clear, 327 makes you hit 5 times as hard, gives 500k armor and let's you spam abilities" (btw I wasn't 327 when I hit 50) and that's why I mentioned the "no cp" rule above.

Edit: looking at the posts after this one, obviously there are people seeing the same things I do. It boils down to one simple fact: one simply can't only take base stats into consideration when drawing conclusions about a system that compensates for way more.

Mortehl

Battle scaling is designed to provide you a buff to compensate for lack of skill points and gear, as you level up, the debuff becomes weaker. There's a simple solution to the problem: don't wear level 4 gear at level 49 behold, comparative stats and results.

Since I am personally CP capped, I have a level 4 and level 26 purple Stam and same sets for magicka for when I level up new guys. I leveled my cp during the veteran level days which basically meant every 4 cp levels (coinciding with the new material level) I made myself or had new gear made.

I suggest that you just get new gear made every 20 or so cp levels until you get to cp 160. Then you can use your handy dandy training sets as described above to get to level 50, then grab your ready made cp 160 gear.

My training sets include:

Stam (4 and 26, purple quality all training as trait)

3 medium, 2 heavy, 2 light, two swords, 1 greatsword, 1 bow, 1 shield

5 hundings, 3-4 ashen grip depending on weapon configuration.

Magicka (4 and 26, purple quality all training as trait)

3 light, 2 heavy, 2 medium, 1 resto, 1 destro, 2 swords, 1 board.

5 julianos, 3-4 Magnus depending on weapon configuration.

Taleof2Cities

Daniel_Malloy wrote: »

The point of One Tamriel was supposed to be player freedom. Yes, a perfectly tuned cp character I should hope has an easier time running through mobs! Have we lost freedom with our characters with One Tamriel's scaling system?

Though I think a few forum-goers have pointed this out already, player freedom and scaling in One Tamriel is a lot harder if you don't ever change out your low level (in this case level 4) gear.

idk

What OP discovered has been the way bolster has worked for a long time. The greater the disparity between character level and gear level the less the year provides.

Working as intended and as it should.

Lysette

Low level characters had to be over-scaled in order to make them be able to play with high level characters - low level characters do not have access to high quality food and beverages for example and below level 15 they have just one ability bar and no weapon swap - and to compensate this and make them somewhat equal despite their lack of skills, low level characters are over-scaled and have higher basic stats. This makes sense, if you think about it.

Victos

So I've just come home and logged in.

I've started a new character:
- no gold
- no cp
- no items given
- no crafting
- skilling "non meta" (50% health 50% stamina)

only active buff outside self buffs is the +100% xp buff from the event to make testing faster.

At lvl 4 I was squishy as hell, couldn't pull more than 2 mobs at the same time and therefor was only able to pull in 290% xp/h.
Then I found gear, skyshards, skillpoints, stat points - and was already able to pull 700% xp/hour at lvl 6.

Why?
- my armor freaking doubled
- I got skills to root enemies in place
- got an aoe on bow
- got 1k MORE health
- got major sorcery soon to be major brutality also (20% dmg right there)
- I GAINED 300 magicka due to equipment

So I'm up in damage, def and possibilities - only because I got the things the buff was there to compensate for in the first place. Did I "lose" something? Yes about 80 weapondmg - while I still use the very same starter weapon.

So despite losing 80 weapon damage - because I did nothing to prevent that (major brutality will fix that soon even without equipment) - I was still able to more than double my incoming xp.

How is that possible if after lvl 4 everything goes downhill? Shouldn't I only be able to pull <290% xp/hour?

No because the difference in available skills alone is so much progress that the game would need to throw everything it has against the character to bring it down to 290% again.

Conclusion so far:
- characters do progress indeed
- base values decrease of course (because the buff uses these very same base values to compensate for missing progress) - they have to be equalized with gear and stat points
- this game isn't any harder than before - in fact I would say its easier. I wasn't able to do what I just did before One Tamriel.
- people need to adapt to given situations

I'll continue this project if I feel like it - but if the claim at lvl 6 is already SO rediculous - I doubt doing anything more would change the outcome.

EDIT:

BTW just for you:
- weapon damage at lvl 4 with starter dagger: 1472
- weapon damage at lvl 6 with lvl 5 dagger: 1482
- equipping both: 1734

Junipus

In Soviet Russia



....ah never mind.

Medwin

I noticed this, I have a damage tracker and my low level can easily hit 7k dps, while my 46 with purple gear hits 4k while using all my skills. I know this is an old thread but it seemed to be the most relevant for my problem. And it really sucks doing dungeons because I hit like a wet noodle and I could do the same dungeons on my low level character and blow everything up.

Nic727

Sorry to revive this old thread, but since I have almost the same problem, I wanted to write here.

I always thought that with One Tamriel my character was weaker. I’m lvl 33 with lvl 33 equipments and weapons and I have difficulties to kill small mobs around Tamriel like the little demons.

Today I PVP a lvl 8 characters and killed me by using the same special attack as me. Maybe there is something wrong with my build, but it is so hard. I see other players killing mobs in 2-3 hits and not taking any damage. For the same thing it take me 50 hits and I get kill in 10 hits.

What’s wrong?

Tandor

STEVIL wrote: »

@carljokl
"It sounds like with the wrong build it is possible to get weaker."

Nothing i have seen, in play or in verified forum comments, says this is true on the whole - ie as a whole character concept.

One partial exception is that they do give low level characters a boost which is gradually taken away as they gain all the various things like full skill trees and bar swapping and sets... so if you "test" by ignoring some/all of those with some naked light attack test - you may see discrepancies.

But what you can see is that your decisions have impact.

Say at level 5 you choose to assign all your attributes to stamina. So, its like what STA-3, health-0 magica-0. When the system scales that up it scales it based on "100% atts into sta" So it takes all that huge honking pool of level 5 to cp160 base health, stamina and magica scaling pile and assigns it based off 100% to stamina for the levels you chose and the rest by its normal scaling rules. (havent checked to see if it assigns "scaled attributes" evenly or based off your spends but either way it holds.)

Say over the next 44 levels you assign 41 attribute to health so you are now like 10-sta 41-health 10-mag then by your choice you took all that "scaling attributes pile" and spent most of it on health, on survive and not on damage etc.

So the first character was one you said should be offensive focused... in stamina.
The second character you said was mostly focused on survival - over 4-1 in fact for any given attack.

So you should expect the second character to be more survivable but also to take longer to beat up similar threats in a scaled system if you cut out all the non-scaling kinds of stuff like sets, advanced skills, swapping, etc etc etc etc.

"play whatever you want" never meant to me the "and it wont matter what you choose" some folks seem to want to read into it. if it did i wouldn't be playing it because i want my choices as to where i spent points, where i developed skills, what gear i choose to wear to all matter.

This guy gets it (and not for the first time, either )!

PlagueSD

KingYogi415 wrote: »

You have to craft new gear every 5 levels. Just craft your own 3 trait gear and make it blue. Weapons purple if you have the mats.

I actually craft every 10 levels. 6, 16, 26, 36, etc. Much easier as that is the same time the crafting mat tier changes.

You lose ability points as you level, but if you look at your armor stats, the bonuses provided by your armor actually INCREASE as you get better armor. On my tank I was around 45K health when I was level 20. Now, at 40, I'm sitting at 38K health...but my physical and spell resistance is higher now with the better armor, so I don't need the extra health.

s7732425ub17_ESO

This is intended. Your weap and gear also becomes weaker as you level up. It's an interesting system. You become normalized once you hit level 50, and then you are at the weakest point you will ever be in terms of stats.

KRBMMO

Iselin wrote: »

Daniel_Malloy wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

You are "overscaled" at low level to compensate for the lack of skills and skillpoints and the abilities and passives that go with them.

Then tell me, at what point do we ACTUALLY see our "normal" scale? Is it at level 10? This seems logical as it is where you can now enter PvP. Is it ACTUALLY level 50? Are we all screwed until we reach the baseline of CP 160? What happens when you reach CP level 561 then?... We can go on...

At level 34

The bonus lowbee scaling is reduced by 3% per level until it goes away.You get 97% of the boost at level 1, 94% at level 2 and so on.

In the first 2 PTS builds you could actually see this extra boost % in the character screen.

But with all these overland sets that drop everywhere now, it's actually tough not to have 2 full 5-piece sets or a 5 piece + 2 3PC sets... most of those will boost your health, magicka or health depending on the set.

The more important question in your example though is are you finding it a tougher going against the same mobs at level 49 than you did at level 4? I'd be very surprised if anyone answered yes to that.

Maybe not mobs, but in Duelling when 1T first dropped there were a few trolls building level 5 characters with maxed out CP and challenging everyone to duels, lol.

Spacemonkey

I've always despised Zenimax and Bethesda's 'level-scaling'. Eso is the worst yet.

It has pros, but it really could be handled better.

zaria

Daniel_Malloy wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

You are "overscaled" at low level to compensate for the lack of skills and skillpoints and the abilities and passives that go with them.

Then tell me, at what point do we ACTUALLY see our "normal" scale? Is it at level 10? This seems logical as it is where you can now enter PvP. Is it ACTUALLY level 50? Are we all screwed until we reach the baseline of CP 160? What happens when you reach CP level 561 then?... We can go on...

If you are an high cp player who know how to play and give your character good gear you are pretty devastating at low levels.
Did ICP as level 17 carried the group did more damage then than I do as level 50 as even if bis level gear, not not golden weapons and don't have rotation pinned down.
Stamblade with caltrops and think stamina character has an bonus here. An mage sorcerer need to unlock lots more skills to be effective. Also leveled an magesorc and she had far more problems in public dungeons.

VirtualElizabeth

Nic727 wrote: »

Sorry to revive this old thread, but since I have almost the same problem, I wanted to write here.

I always thought that with One Tamriel my character was weaker. I’m lvl 33 with lvl 33 equipments and weapons and I have difficulties to kill small mobs around Tamriel like the little demons.

Today I PVP a lvl 8 characters and killed me by using the same special attack as me. Maybe there is something wrong with my build, but it is so hard. I see other players killing mobs in 2-3 hits and not taking any damage. For the same thing it take me 50 hits and I get kill in 10 hits.

What’s wrong?

I assume you meant you dueled the level 8 char? A level 8 can't get into Cyro. I suspect the different might possibly be champion points.

Jayman1000

I have to say I disagree. One Tamriel keeps the game challenging where ever you go and enables you to play meaningfully with friends of much lower level. Additionally the penalty to leveling is offset by the benefits of unlocking additional skills so choose wisely.

Chronicburn

Around level 45ish if you have spent points wisely and are wearing level appropriate gear (easiest is a crafted set and 3 or 4 pieces of a second set) you should be tearing through solo content like a hot knife through butter.
My guess would be you are not geared properly and/or you aren’t using yours skills properly. Also do you remember to always eat your food? Blue at a minimum but preferably purple.
Your stats may be a bit lower than starting but overall your character should feel very strong through the 40’s

PlagueSD

zaria wrote: »

If you are an high cp player who know how to play and give your character good gear you are pretty devastating at low levels.

Yep, I remember tanking WGT on my level 20 DK. We were on Lord Warden fight. Got boss down to 20%. After his last split phase, rest of group somehow died. So, here I was, soloing the last 15-18% of the fight. Was doing great...Until I forgot to synergize when I went through a portal. Got the boss down to 5% health. I SO wish I had video...

Mettaricana

Who tf keeps necroing these year old posts

Chronicburn

Omg was this an old one lol ... I didn’t look...

Jayman1000

Mettaricana wrote: »

Who tf keeps necroing these year old posts

You, among others XD

smacx250

It is however, still completely relevant to how things work today.

Waffennacht

Junipus wrote: »

In Soviet Russia



....ah never mind.

Just over a year later, someone laughed at @Junipus 's joke

IcyDeadPeople

Daniel_Malloy wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

You are "overscaled" at low level to compensate for the lack of skills and skillpoints and the abilities and passives that go with them.

Then tell me, at what point do we ACTUALLY see our "normal" scale? Is it at level 10? This seems logical as it is where you can now enter PvP. Is it ACTUALLY level 50? Are we all screwed until we reach the baseline of CP 160? What happens when you reach CP level 561 then?... We can go on...

Level 50 is the baseline.

Level 5-10 scales a bit higher than say level 30, 40, 45 if you are wearing full gold armor because very few level 5 to 10 players have access to gold gear.

Junipus

Waffennacht wrote: »

Junipus wrote: »

In Soviet Russia



....ah never mind.

Just over a year later, someone laughed at @Junipus 's joke

In Soviet America, jokes are not immediately funny

ADarklore

PlagueSD wrote: »

KingYogi415 wrote: »

You have to craft new gear every 5 levels. Just craft your own 3 trait gear and make it blue. Weapons purple if you have the mats.

I actually craft every 10 levels. 6, 16, 26, 36, etc. Much easier as that is the same time the crafting mat tier changes.

You lose ability points as you level, but if you look at your armor stats, the bonuses provided by your armor actually INCREASE as you get better armor. On my tank I was around 45K health when I was level 20. Now, at 40, I'm sitting at 38K health...but my physical and spell resistance is higher now with the better armor, so I don't need the extra health.

I actually have crafted sets level 1, 6, 10, 20, 30, and 40 purple gear already waiting for new characters, I keep them on two mule characters- one for Stamina and one for Magicka builds.

Nic727

VirtualElizabeth wrote: »

Nic727 wrote: »

Sorry to revive this old thread, but since I have almost the same problem, I wanted to write here.

I always thought that with One Tamriel my character was weaker. I’m lvl 33 with lvl 33 equipments and weapons and I have difficulties to kill small mobs around Tamriel like the little demons.

Today I PVP a lvl 8 characters and killed me by using the same special attack as me. Maybe there is something wrong with my build, but it is so hard. I see other players killing mobs in 2-3 hits and not taking any damage. For the same thing it take me 50 hits and I get kill in 10 hits.

What’s wrong?

I assume you meant you dueled the level 8 char? A level 8 can't get into Cyro. I suspect the different might possibly be champion points.

Yes dueled... I'm sure it was only lvl 8 with no champion. Have to look at this next time, but normally people with champion lvl has a different symbol next to lvl right?