Crown Crates % fair warning!

Dubhliam

I for one am not against crown crates, and support ZOS' idea of earning more money in such a way.

However, the drop rates are seriously skewed, considering the prices of Crown Crates.

Here are the statistics collected during the PTS (a large majority of the credit goes to @Danikat that collected 731 Crates worth of statistics in his thread)
Just to clarify: this first image shows card percentages. Meaning you will most likely get at least one Collectible in every Crate, since they have 4 cards.




The duplicates give 1/3 of the Gem value of a reward.
5 Gems from duplicate Superior rewards
13 Gems from duplicate Epic rewards
33 Gems from duplicate Legendary rewards
133 Gems from duplicate Apex rewards (not confirmed, only based on assumption)

Simple math tells us that you will get an Apex reward on average every 63 Crates. That is 25,200 Crowns.
To conclude, you will almost certainly end up owning every Superior quality collectible before getting an Apex reward.

If you are unlucky, you are able to accumulate Gems.
Let's say that every time you open something new, you did not waste Crowns. I know, you have no use for the Argonian/Khajiit/female etc cosmetics, but let's just assume you got your money's worth. It is gambling after all.
You have an average return of 7.95 Gems per duplicate Collectible. It will take an average of 50 (duplicate!) Crates to be able to buy an Apex reward of your choice with Gems.
If we exclude the Crates where you got non duplicate Collectibles, this puts the Apex mounts on an average 20,000 Crowns worth.

I'm not advocating you boycott the Crates altogether, I am merely advising you to proceed with caution.

AmberLaTerra

I on the other hand do advocate boycotting crates all together. With the drop rates on them ZOS is clearly relying on P.T. Barnums famous quote of "There is a sucker born every minute."

Until the crates get both a fair cost for what is in them of around 100 gems, and a stable better drop rate on the higher end items they should be boycotted.

Pomaikai

In the real world, this is called gambling. You'll find things like this at casinos. However, the casino MUST disclose their odds, so the player can make an informed decision before playing. ZOS, and other gaming companies engaging in this sleazy practice do not, yet. I highly recommend contacting your State Attorney General (If you live in America) and talk to them about game companies engaging in unregulated gambling. Most don't even realize it's going on. If enough people complain, they'll hopefully crack down on this despicable practice.

At least when I go to a casino I know the odds, and I get free cocktails served by attractive people in skimpy outfits.


PS... The "math" is that you should be prepared to spend hundreds, if not thousands of real life dollars, pounds, yen, francs, marks, or whatever currency your country uses, in order to WIN an Apex reward. What you'll get almost every single solitary time is a bunch of consumable crap that you'd NEVER have spent real money on in this game. Don't get tricked into thinking you'll get that cool new item on the cheap. It's a sucker's bet.

Rohamad_Ali

I have to divide all those by R as my luck makes the odds even lower .

Wow

Be careful, if these crown crates are not generating enough money to fill ZOS greed, they will start pumping in even more powerful stuffs inside it to boost the sales. As for now we only have the 3x more powerful version than Psijic Ambrossia in that, but who knows there might be 3x more powerful foods/drinks/poisons or even tempers upgrade materials in there in the future.

So yeah make sure you guys keep throwing at least $200 on these lootboxes per season

JOKES
First they said No plans for RNG Boxes.


NOW WE GETTING THESE RNG BOXES

*** THESE CROWN CRATES, *** THEM ALL

Niaver

Cool stuff, but where are mounts in these charts?

Danikat

I'm not going to boycott them, I'm just never going to buy any of them.

Boycotting implies I would buy them if it wasn't for one thing I object to. Which I suppose is true but the 'one thing' is the entire design of them - I don't spend money without knowing what I'm going to get in return.

Mashille

I'm just not gonna buy any.

Ever.

KingMagaw

I think its a disgrace and a very predatory move by Z0$. Introducing real money gambling in a game is very sleazy.

I believe this will only get worse. They obviously want to generate extra revenue and if this doesn't do it, they will simply bump the rewards the gambling will give you, moving from cosmetic items to weapons and armors and such. Poor form.

Soundwave

Dubhliam wrote: »

I for one am not against crown crates, and support ZOS' idea of earning more money in such a way.

However, the drop rates are seriously skewed, considering the prices of Crown Crates.

Here are the statistics collected during the PTS (a large majority of the credit goes to @Danikat that collected 731 Crates worth of statistics in his thread)




The duplicates give 1/3 of the Gem value of a reward.
5 Gems from duplicate Superior rewards
13 Gems from duplicate Epic rewards
33 Gems from duplicate Legendary rewards
133 Gems from duplicate Apex rewards (not confirmed, only based on assumption)

Simple math tells us that you will get an Apex reward on average every 70 Crates. That is 28,000 Crowns.
To conclude, you will almost certainly end up owning every Superior quality collectible before getting an Apex reward.

If you are unlucky, you are able to accumulate Gems.
Let's say that every time you open something new, you did not waste Crowns. I know, you have no use for the Argonian/Khajiit/female etc cosmetics, but let's just assume you got your money's worth. It is gambling after all.
You have an average return of 7.95 Gems per duplicate Collectible. It will take an average of 50 (duplicate!) Crates to be able to buy an Apex reward of your choice with Gems.
If we exclude the Crates where you got non duplicate Collectibles, this puts the Apex mounts on an average 20,000 Crowns worth.

I'm not advocating you boycott the Crates altogether, I am merely advising you to proceed with caution.

Wow those odd seems better than vma weapon drops.

The rng system sucks, we know that. Why, should the crates be any better.

wayfarerx

Pomaikai wrote: »

In the real world, this is called gambling. You'll find things like this at casinos. However, the casino MUST disclose their odds, so the player can make an informed decision before playing. ZOS, and other gaming companies engaging in this sleazy practice do not, yet. I highly recommend contacting your State Attorney General (If you live in America) and talk to them about game companies engaging in unregulated gambling. Most don't even realize it's going on. If enough people complain, they'll hopefully crack down on this despicable practice.

At least when I go to a casino I know the odds, and I get free cocktails served by attractive people in skimpy outfits.


PS... The "math" is that you should be prepared to spend hundreds, if not thousands of real life dollars, pounds, yen, francs, marks, or whatever currency your country uses, in order to WIN an Apex reward. What you'll get almost every single solitary time is a bunch of consumable crap that you'd NEVER have spent real money on in this game. Don't get tricked into thinking you'll get that cool new item on the cheap. It's a sucker's bet.

The really deplorable part of not publishing the drop rates is that ZOS can skew and tailor the drop rates for each individual in real-time. They can analyze each user's behavior in the crown store, right down to where your mouse moves and what it hovers over, use that information to profile your likely behavior when buying crates, and finally tempt you to spend more and more in search of what you want.

No amount of assurances that they are playing fair is good enough, they must publish the drop rates.

There's a reason we have laws that prevent casinos from operating this way: it's deceptive and predatory. Eventually the lumbering hulk of government will catch up and ban this kind of nonsense, but until then it's best to stay away from shady practices like these gamble crates.

Dubhliam

Niaver wrote: »

Cool stuff, but where are mounts in these charts?

Two types got cut out, nice catch!
Here is the updated picture:

freespirit

Yes where are the mounts?

Epona222

wayfarerx wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

In the real world, this is called gambling. You'll find things like this at casinos. However, the casino MUST disclose their odds, so the player can make an informed decision before playing. ZOS, and other gaming companies engaging in this sleazy practice do not, yet. I highly recommend contacting your State Attorney General (If you live in America) and talk to them about game companies engaging in unregulated gambling. Most don't even realize it's going on. If enough people complain, they'll hopefully crack down on this despicable practice.

At least when I go to a casino I know the odds, and I get free cocktails served by attractive people in skimpy outfits.


PS... The "math" is that you should be prepared to spend hundreds, if not thousands of real life dollars, pounds, yen, francs, marks, or whatever currency your country uses, in order to WIN an Apex reward. What you'll get almost every single solitary time is a bunch of consumable crap that you'd NEVER have spent real money on in this game. Don't get tricked into thinking you'll get that cool new item on the cheap. It's a sucker's bet.

The really deplorable part of not publishing the drop rates is that ZOS can skew and tailor the drop rates for each individual in real-time. They can analyze each user's behavior in the crown store, right down to where your mouse moves and what it hovers over, use that information to profile your likely behavior when buying crates, and finally tempt you to spend more and more in search of what you want.

No amount of assurances that they are playing fair is good enough, they must publish the drop rates.

There's a reason we have laws that prevent casinos from operating this way: it's deceptive and predatory. Eventually the lumbering hulk of government will catch up and ban this kind of nonsense, but until then it's best to stay away from shady practices like these gamble crates.

Although I don't plan to participate in this myself, I would feel better for other people if they published the drop rates. If I go to the bookie and place a bet on a race or a game or other sporting event, I know what the odds are before I participate, in fact I think it is a legal requirement that they display the odds, or give you a ticket confirming the odds.

danno8

And this is how you go from charging an already hefty 5000 crowns for a mount, to an outrageous 20,000 crowns for a mount.

Remember, it's not really gambling (lol).

AmberLaTerra

Danikat wrote: »

I'm not going to boycott them, I'm just never going to buy any of them.

Boycotting implies I would buy them if it wasn't for one thing I object to. Which I suppose is true but the 'one thing' is the entire design of them - I don't spend money without knowing what I'm going to get in return.

The idea behind a boycott is to get others who would buy them to not buy them just as we are not buying them

desciviib14_ESO

Danikat wrote: »

I'm not going to boycott them, I'm just never going to buy any of them.

Boycotting implies I would buy them if it wasn't for one thing I object to. Which I suppose is true but the 'one thing' is the entire design of them - I don't spend money without knowing what I'm going to get in return.

THIS RIGHT HERE

Waffennacht

wayfarerx wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

In the real world, this is called gambling. You'll find things like this at casinos. However, the casino MUST disclose their odds, so the player can make an informed decision before playing. ZOS, and other gaming companies engaging in this sleazy practice do not, yet. I highly recommend contacting your State Attorney General (If you live in America) and talk to them about game companies engaging in unregulated gambling. Most don't even realize it's going on. If enough people complain, they'll hopefully crack down on this despicable practice.

At least when I go to a casino I know the odds, and I get free cocktails served by attractive people in skimpy outfits.


PS... The "math" is that you should be prepared to spend hundreds, if not thousands of real life dollars, pounds, yen, francs, marks, or whatever currency your country uses, in order to WIN an Apex reward. What you'll get almost every single solitary time is a bunch of consumable crap that you'd NEVER have spent real money on in this game. Don't get tricked into thinking you'll get that cool new item on the cheap. It's a sucker's bet.

The really deplorable part of not publishing the drop rates is that ZOS can skew and tailor the drop rates for each individual in real-time. They can analyze each user's behavior in the crown store, right down to where your mouse moves and what it hovers over, use that information to profile your likely behavior when buying crates, and finally tempt you to spend more and more in search of what you want.

No amount of assurances that they are playing fair is good enough, they must publish the drop rates.

There's a reason we have laws that prevent casinos from operating this way: it's deceptive and predatory. Eventually the lumbering hulk of government will catch up and ban this kind of nonsense, but until then it's best to stay away from shady practices like these gamble crates.

Phew... thank God im on console, to think that these punks are watching my screen to up the price...

Thankfully Microsoft doesn't engage in any price manipulation or spikes...

Lmfao wuteva!

Slurg

Thanks for publishing this! And for correcting the one that got cut off so quickly.

They could double or triple the drop rate for rare items and probably will - but it would still be a horrible return.

At the very least they need to publish the drop rates when the crates are released. I still won't buy but hate the idea of people not knowing how unlikely they are to get those rare mounts before they spend their money.

rhapsodious

I can't say I'm surprised. The house always wins, and all.

I just really hope the non-themed stuff isn't crown crate exclusive. I can live without atronach/wild hunt/whatever mounts and mementos. To be fair, I could live without any of the crown store offerings. But if they gate stuff like mundane mount reskins (*cough* redpitwolf *cough*) behind these for no other reason than "buy crown crates lol", then... no thanks.

Moltyr

wayfarerx wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

In the real world, this is called gambling. You'll find things like this at casinos. However, the casino MUST disclose their odds, so the player can make an informed decision before playing. ZOS, and other gaming companies engaging in this sleazy practice do not, yet. I highly recommend contacting your State Attorney General (If you live in America) and talk to them about game companies engaging in unregulated gambling. Most don't even realize it's going on. If enough people complain, they'll hopefully crack down on this despicable practice.

At least when I go to a casino I know the odds, and I get free cocktails served by attractive people in skimpy outfits.


PS... The "math" is that you should be prepared to spend hundreds, if not thousands of real life dollars, pounds, yen, francs, marks, or whatever currency your country uses, in order to WIN an Apex reward. What you'll get almost every single solitary time is a bunch of consumable crap that you'd NEVER have spent real money on in this game. Don't get tricked into thinking you'll get that cool new item on the cheap. It's a sucker's bet.

The really deplorable part of not publishing the drop rates is that ZOS can skew and tailor the drop rates for each individual in real-time. They can analyze each user's behavior in the crown store, right down to where your mouse moves and what it hovers over, use that information to profile your likely behavior when buying crates, and finally tempt you to spend more and more in search of what you want.

No amount of assurances that they are playing fair is good enough, they must publish the drop rates.

There's a reason we have laws that prevent casinos from operating this way: it's deceptive and predatory. Eventually the lumbering hulk of government will catch up and ban this kind of nonsense, but until then it's best to stay away from shady practices like these gamble crates.

@ZOS_GinaBruno Anyone care to retort?

Kemono

Dubhliam wrote: »

I for one am not against crown crates, and support ZOS' idea of earning more money in such a way.

However, the drop rates are seriously skewed, considering the prices of Crown Crates.

First of all: drop rates are curently UNKNOWN, and PTS colected data are more or less WORTHLESS, cos Zenimax claim to adjust the rates for better proc.
(and removed crates from PTS, so no more testing)
if anything - now we need similiar data from live server, and dont worry this appear very soon after crates hit the store >> theres plenty of players with deep pockets in here, commonly in MMO called "Whales"


Second of all: maybe i miss something but all you folks criticizing the crates still miss some serious issues -that should be bringed to community spotlight.
im mostly thinking here about tier structures: apex is ok, superior tier (lowest one) is ok too i guess
Problem is with both second(legendary) and third tier (epic)
What problem?
Absolute crazy reward placement.
For example in legendary -where ALL items cost 100 crown gems we have:
Black Mane lion mount (new)
Clouded senche Mount (old)
clouded senche cub (new pet)
Frost mare mount (old)
Dwarf style mage hat
etc

Seriously?
senche mount, frost mare cost in crowns: 2500-3000
ANY pet to day 400-1000, i say those crates pets would cost 700 in crowns
hats -400 crowns

WHY on earth all those are put toogether in same category, and priced same amount of crown gems?
Some designers at zos are running wild, i tell you thats why

Martan

Pomaikai wrote: »

In the real world, this is called gambling. You'll find things like this at casinos. However, the casino MUST disclose their odds, so the player can make an informed decision before playing. ZOS, and other gaming companies engaging in this sleazy practice do not, yet. I highly recommend contacting your State Attorney General (If you live in America) and talk to them about game companies engaging in unregulated gambling. Most don't even realize it's going on. If enough people complain, they'll hopefully crack down on this despicable practice.

At least when I go to a casino I know the odds, and I get free cocktails served by attractive people in skimpy outfits.


PS... The "math" is that you should be prepared to spend hundreds, if not thousands of real life dollars, pounds, yen, francs, marks, or whatever currency your country uses, in order to WIN an Apex reward. What you'll get almost every single solitary time is a bunch of consumable crap that you'd NEVER have spent real money on in this game. Don't get tricked into thinking you'll get that cool new item on the cheap. It's a sucker's bet.

You are not winning anything of real value so technically it is not gambling per definition.

wayfarerx

Martan wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

In the real world, this is called gambling. You'll find things like this at casinos. However, the casino MUST disclose their odds, so the player can make an informed decision before playing. ZOS, and other gaming companies engaging in this sleazy practice do not, yet. I highly recommend contacting your State Attorney General (If you live in America) and talk to them about game companies engaging in unregulated gambling. Most don't even realize it's going on. If enough people complain, they'll hopefully crack down on this despicable practice.

At least when I go to a casino I know the odds, and I get free cocktails served by attractive people in skimpy outfits.


PS... The "math" is that you should be prepared to spend hundreds, if not thousands of real life dollars, pounds, yen, francs, marks, or whatever currency your country uses, in order to WIN an Apex reward. What you'll get almost every single solitary time is a bunch of consumable crap that you'd NEVER have spent real money on in this game. Don't get tricked into thinking you'll get that cool new item on the cheap. It's a sucker's bet.

You are not winning anything of real value so technically it is not gambling per definition.

The concept of "value" is entirely subjective. Splitting hairs or arguing semantics is just a diversionary tactic, Crown Crates as they appeared on PTS are a predatory gambling service and if they involved physical "rewards" they would be illegal almost everywhere in the world.

Wow

anyone know what these player is doing?


i thought crown crates isnt in yet

Wow

Dubhliam

Kemono wrote: »

First of all: drop rates are curently UNKNOWN, and PTS colected data are more or less WORTHLESS, cos Zenimax claim to adjust the rates for better proc.
(and removed crates from PTS, so no more testing)
if anything - now we need similiar data from live server, and dont worry this appear very soon after crates hit the store >> theres plenty of players with deep pockets in here, commonly in MMO called "Whales"


Second of all: maybe i miss something but all you folks criticizing the crates still miss some serious issues -that should be bringed to community spotlight.
im mostly thinking here about tier structures: apex is ok, superior tier (lowest one) is ok too i guess
Problem is with both second(legendary) and third tier (epic)
What problem?
Absolute crazy reward placement.
For example in legendary -where ALL items cost 100 crown gems we have:
Black Mane lion mount (new)
Clouded senche Mount (old)
clouded senche cub (new pet)
Frost mare mount (old)
Dwarf style mage hat
etc

Seriously?
senche mount, frost mare cost in crowns: 2500-3000
ANY pet to day 400-1000, i say those crates pets would cost 700 in crowns
hats -400 crowns

WHY on earth all those are put toogether in same category, and priced same amount of crown gems?
Some designers at zos are running wild, i tell you thats why

The drop chances might have been tampered with a bit since the PTS, but I seriously doubt they changed something drastically.
I would consider these numbers as good guidelines of what to expect.

If we are to apply the above mentioned return of 7.95 Gems per duplicate, the Legendary rewards are approximately worth 5,000 Crowns.

Cazzy

Wow wrote: »

Hmm. Odd. Start a new thread? I thought they were being added later in the year.

Agobi

Those stats seem spot on...considering their main ...and only goal, is to squeeze as much cash as possible out of the *bleep* ers who will be buying crates

Loralai_907

I'm not buying any. No matter what. And I was really interested in the Wild Hunt Senche mount. So that sucks. But I only will pay for things directly. Not really interested in hoping I get what I want and only getting a bunch of nonsense I do not want. And to get that one mount, it would cost me way to much real life money. No. I'm not shelling out $300 for one in game mount. Anyone at ZOS that thought this was a good idea, you have lost your dam mind.

I really hope there isn't going to be an in game animation that shows everyone when someone else is opening a crown crate. But I guess that makes sense, so you can try and sell more of these awful things. But I guess it would be good to know who was buying them........

_Chaos

Wow wrote: »

anyone know what these player is doing?


i thought crown crates isnt in yet

@Synozeer you're famous Azoi