What do you think of Crown Crates? -- New Poll for PTS Implementation

DYSEQTA

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

Bringing this over from the outdated thread as it needs to be seen:

Epona222 wrote: »

I've been on the PTS and have so far spent the equivalent of around $350 on crates.
There are 2 mounts, 3 pets, and a hat in the crown crates that I would happily buy outright.
My equivalent of $350 (in free crowns, because it's PTS) has got me 1 pet I wanted, and enough gems to buy 3 other legendary items (but insufficient to buy 1 apex item). And a load of tat that I don't want (including items that I can't use because I don't have an Argonian).

Basically the stuff I would buy is extortionately expensive this way (to the point where it seems that Zeni are deliberately targeting people who have a weakness for games of chance), and I will not be buying these crates on live.

Quoting this for truth. This is the truth that people need to see and that ZOS need their immoral faces rubbed in. It is exploitative, psychologically manipulative, and downright disgusting behaviour.

Evergnar

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

Don't really need to say much more than what has already been said over the past few months.
They simply SHOULD NOT BE IMPLEMENTED.

It will be interesting to see how confident Zos is in their plans or if they will rethink this and find other ways to make money through the crown store.

Thornen

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

Haven't tested them personally but have watched enough on stream, blatant disrespect for their customer base. The cash grab crates are a complete *** you to everyone that plays this game.

Thaumic

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

ZOS, please don't do this.

Riga_Mortis

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

From my PoV this has actually lost zenimax income, as I would have purchased 2 storm mounts and the black mane lion as soon as they hit the crown store. I absolutely will not be spending a single crown on the chance on maybe getting 1 in a gamble crate.

AlienSlof

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

Having tried them on the PTS, my opinion of them hasn't changed. They STINK. They reek of greed and desperation and lack of any proper morals.

I played Tera and Neverwinter before ESO, both those games had gamble boxes that eventually just soured the gaming experience completely. Big flashing text across the screen every few minutes or so: 'Xxx has won Xxxx shiny thing!!!!' If ZOS do THAT, I'll be gone so fast they won't see me for dust.

The whole 'EXCLUSIVE' deal STINKS. Exclusive in general smells bad enough. Just put the shinies in the store and stop removing stuff. Let us buy them outright, what we see is what we get. If I haven't bought something before, it means I don't want it. The crates would force upon me things I don't want just to get a chance at the thing I DO want.

And when one does the maths for how much an 'apex' reward can run to - just horrendous. Greedy, corrupt and predatory. A scam.

I realise that @GinaBruno and Co are probably not allowed to voice how they really feel about how this is turning out - it would cost them their jobs. Thus I don't really expect them to post a personal opinion. Nor are the devs entirely to blame. They make what the suits want them to make. The suits and the accountants and marketing people are to blame, primarily. Money money money greed drool. 'How much can we fleece the gamers for before the game is no longer filling our pockets?'

Like Tera and Neverwinter, I will ignore these boxes entirely. I'll enjoy seeing the fancy mounts in game and be satisfied with that, just as I was in the other games. If they are offered honestly to buy directly, I will get them myself, but I will NEVER gamble with the small amount of funds I get as a retired oldie.

Epona222

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

Dazza1968 wrote: »

From my PoV this has actually lost zenimax income, as I would have purchased 2 storm mounts and the black mane lion as soon as they hit the crown store. I absolutely will not be spending a single crown on the chance on maybe getting 1 in a gamble crate.

I clicked agree to your post, in that I agree with the sentiment. It's different stuff I would like though (on the PTS at the moment are the red fox mount, cub, black mane lion, and bear dog, which are at the top of my wish list.) And I have not got any of those in the equivalent of $350 spent. I did get the cloud senche cub (whoopee do). I got 9!!! feathered bycocket caps - who cares, at 5 gems for each duplicate that is only 40 gems and the mounts/pets I wanted were all 100 gems.

I even once got the same cosmetic item twice in one crate (khajiit only, the stripes one), but I suppose that is better than the crates I got with no collectible at all.

Anyone who is considering doing this on live, please don't - I have spent a massive amount of fake money on the PTS and ended up with very little - I would hate to see anyone spend IRL cash to that extent on these things. The drop rate for apex tier and legendary tier are abysmal.

Danikat

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

I've been recording my own drops every day since the crates were released on the PTS, I've also had contributions from other people in this thread which enabled me to get a much better idea of what the drop rates actually are.

I admit I didn't like the idea even before they were on the PTS but I was willing to be persuaded otherwise. I've seen lots of variations on RNG boxes, from the truly horrible (pure pay-to-win with even better items awarded to the people who spent the most on boxes in a month) to ones with only tradable cosmetic items which I think don't do any harm beyond the time and effort that went into making new items for them (which were mainly reskins of existing items). Those ones are still not good but at least they're not too bad.

The way these were described by some people they would have been ok - only dropping cosmetic items that were previously available, maybe the odd themed exclusive and with the ability to trade any item you don't want for one you do.

What we've actually got is very different. Mostly consumables (which are being "fixed" by making them incrementally closer to being the best in the game) with a lot of exclusive items with extremely low drop rates (less than 1%) and no choice over what you get. If you get an item you don't already have unlocked there is no option to swap it, and if it's a duplicate you get just under 1/3 of it's value. Meaning you need dozens of duplicates and therefore hundreds of crates to get the stuff you do want.

I've used 104 crates (which would cost £181.53) and I've gotten 4 items which I might have bought. I want another 4 which haven't dropped and I'm just short of having enough gems for them. In total I estimate buying all 8 items directly would cost me £38.40.

Reykice

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

Yeah the main problem is the cost... i had crates in other games i played and never touched them, will do the same here after all its just cosmetic stuff and there are other options besides crates.

However when they launched Tamriel Unlimited they told us of different things, like how with a subscription you can still enjoy the whole game and have crowns to spend on the Store.

They basically lied, with the mounts in the store having a 1% chance and needing 40.000 crowns its just not cool to do this. Now they want the subscription PLUS to buy crowns on the side... and for what?

If a casino does this its illegal but apparently the same laws do not apply to games and ZOS is now exploiting the system and its clients for this. Not saying its just ZOS... but still, when your game and dlc`s as a whole cost 50$ but a mount costs 300$+ and is behind RNG so you are not sure 300$ is even enough to get it, that is you as a company just being too greedy.

Also every poll i see has people voting so they do not add it... i hope that if they do add it people can show them the finger by not using it.

Abeille

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

I really wish ZOS would actually tell us what is going to be exclusive and what isn't instead of letting us expect the worst like this. This whole situation really bothers me.

Hopefully, they are doing that because they are open to change what they are making exclusive based on feedback. Like, they are seeing what they can "get away with".

Mercutio

Neutral: I have NOT tested the crates, and my feelings are neutral, noncommital, or do not apply.

I am going to withhold judgement till we see exactly what is delivered. I don't like what we saw on PTS, that's for sure. Spending $200 or so for a mount, while I'm sure most of us could do so if we desired, is not an endeavor I wish to engage in.

It is my hope that they have seen the feedback and comments and will align the Crown Crates to be more in the spirit of the current Crown Store: a fair and fun way to collect digital cosmetics for our characters.

While apprehensive, the die has not yet been cast and they have earned enough good will on my part for me to take a wait and see position.

OrphanHelgen

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

Atleast its not pay to win, but still. They are ruining their own impression.

Juhasow

I dont have so much patience so i opened this crates maybe 2 days in a a row but my guild mate is logging into pts and opening this each time his crowns return to 5,5k and after spending over 40k crows he gets literally nothing worth that moneys. Pretty underwhelming.

tclark_ESO

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

I haven't tested these at all, but after experiencing them in SWTOR I hate this idea.

I will not buy them. I will not support them. This is nothing short of another form of online gambling that the government needs to take notice of.

Slurg

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

After 117 pages, the old poll has been shut down.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/286094/what-do-you-think-of-crown-store-random-boxes-lottery-box#latest

I have made my feelings very clear in that thread already, but want to note that after trying the crates on PTS I dislike them even more than I did when they were first announced.

There is nothing they can do to make these crates palatable for me. I will not spend my money to gamble for the items inside them. The best case scenario I can hope for at this point is that at the end of each "season" they make the exclusive items available for regular sale.

MissBizz

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

I have tested the crates every day while they were on the PTS, 13 crates per day. My drops were disappointing, and as someone else mentioned above there are quite a few items in there I would purchase if they were a limited time offer or put directly into the crown store.

RNG is no fun, especially when real money is about to be spent. We already have plenty of folks who don't like the crazy RNG with many of our item drops, and now they are going to involve money with RNG? No thank you. I would like to make informed decisions on what I purchase. If I perceive the item's worth to be equal to or higher than Zos' asking price, I purchase it. If I don't feel that way, I don't. I really enjoyed making sensible decisions for the cosmetics I love so dearly.

I saw a thread on the forums here, Found a New Use For Pacrooti. I believe this would be a brilliant system. Although yes it would need to be tweaked, there could essentially be a "Golden" for the crown store. Zos could even add a SMALL amount of RNG and pressure to the system - which would fair, transparent and possibly even exciting (anticipating what Pacrooti will brin that week).

In the state these crates were in on the PTS I feel they were unethical. Advertised features such as receiving gems for duplicates felt harsh, as the gem conversion rate was so bad you quickly realize that's not a sensible way to get the items you like, and they only added it to say "you can save up for the item you want". You are forced to take items you do not like, or, possibly can't even use. Pacrooti is also rooting you on to spend more and speaking terrible lines that should not be associated with gambling.

Another problem I have is how players are being left in the dark.

-What items would be considered exclusive using the PTS Crates as an example?

I, and many others, have repeatedly asked this question and have either been given extremely cloudy answers, or no answer at all.

-How many crown gems will consumables be worth?

-How much better will the consumables get?

-What WAS the drop rate? If you are raising it, what are you raising it to?

With keeping the players in the dark, and not allowing testing of the final product, I feel that they are trying to pull the wool over my eyes so I don't worry, and trust them. I trusted them to implement these containers in a transparent and ethical way, but that didn't happen.

I realize maybe Zos does not even know the exact values of what will be changed before live, that's fine, you need to talk it over. You COULD offer to bring the crates back on the PTS when they are "fixed" so we could test them further and give you feedback on how they have improved etc. How does feedback help to know if your changes are enough... if you don't allow us to see these things before live?

I was and am extremely excited for the One Tamriel update. Sure, there's no new zones, but that's fine. I can see the amount of work this overhaul took and it's something I always wanted. I am excited to go back to all the beginning zones and do those quests I skipped on alts due to already being overlevelled, and travelling the world freely as I please rather than in a given direction. Crown Crates are definitely putting a damper on my excitement for One Tamriel, even though One Tamriel comes first.

[EDIT] Almost forgot!! My suggestions.

-Go with the really cool way to use Pacrooti instead. Added some ideas and thoughts in that thread.

-Ensure ONLY atronach themed items are exclusive. When it was mentioned there would be rare mounts - I figured like 2. Seeing a whole set? Disappointment from me.

-Up the gem conversion rate. Seriously. I should not need a FOURTH duplicate of an item - to buy the same tier of item - because I'm one gem short.

-Allow us to trade in cosmetics we don't want. Even if you give us the minimal amount of gems that duplicates return now. Returning items still runs us the risk of continuously getting it and taking a smaller amount of gems.. where if we had just taken it we would have received more gems.

Morimizo

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

UrQuan wrote: »

When I first heard about the concept of crown crates I thought it was a terrible idea, but I was hoping they would be implemented in a reasonable way so that I could just choose to ignore them.

Having seen them on PTS, they're worse than I feared. They're exploitative, predatory, and just plain unethical. Whenever possible I refuse to give my money to companies which I consider to be unethical, and unless serious changes are made to them, crown crates are probably going to mean ESO can kiss any future income from me goodbye. And I've definitely spent over $1500 in total on the game since PC launch.

My overwhelming preference is for them to simply be scrapped. Since that seems highly unlikely, the next best thing is for ZOS to make some significant changes to them to make them fair. It's OK for them to be set up in a way that ZOS makes somewhat more coin off them than they would from regular crown store purchases. It's not OK for them to be a complete scam. Lottery boxes don't have to be predatory!

The links provided in the thread-starter have a lot of posts by a lot of people (including myself) with ideas for how to make crown crates acceptable. I sincerely hope ZOS pays attention and makes more changes than the ones they've announced so far that they're planning on making. I'd hate to have to say goodbye.

It would not surprise me one bit if DLCs found their way into these decepticons.

Want Vvardenfell?

Pacrooti can help you! Maybe you'll be lucky this time!!

And no, I don't care if they said something like "We currently have no plans to include anything in the Crown Crates that are not cosmetic in nature."

I most certainly do not trust whoever is in charge of this game now.

seebra

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

Don't do this to us :I

Dubhliam

Other: My feelings are more complex than the above sentiments. (Comment below.)

MissBizz wrote: »

...
-Allow us to trade in cosmetics we don't want. Even if you give us the minimal amount of gems that duplicates return now. Returning items still runs us the risk of continuously getting it and taking a smaller amount of gems.. where if we had just taken it we would have received more gems.

This would be very reasonable solution.
Within the Crate UI, when receiving a cosmetic item, give the option to "return" the item for 1/3 of the Gem price (the current duplicate amount).
Then, if a player decides to keep it, every other duplicate gives double that amount, meaning 2/3 of the Gem price.

Even by that standards, an Apex Mount would be purchasable with 40 duplicates. With an average of 1 cosmetic item in a Crate, that is 16000 Crowns for an Apex mount of the player's choice. It's double that amount on PTS.

deleted201022-005645

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

Having tested the crown crates during the time they were available on the PTS crown store, I have to say that I am extremely disappointed with the current implementation of these crates. Purchasing the full 5200 crowns’ worth of crates each day for a full week while they were available for testing, I received none of the apex rewards (which were the only ones I would have specifically purchased if they were available separately) while receiving multiple duplicates of almost all of the lower-tier rewards. Additionally, I received overwhelming amounts of consumables for which I have absolutely no use. Of these consumables, the only ones I would have any chance of intentionally purchasing would be soul gems or repair kits as these items are not craftable. So after 7 days of purchasing 13 crates daily, for a total of 36400 crowns (Purchasable from the account page as a combination of 6 5500-crown bundles, and one each of the 3000 and 740 crown bundles for a total of $272.92 before tax) I finally had enough crown gems to purchase an apex mount outright, as well as an inventory full of unwanted consumables and a collections tab full of unwanted collectibles. With that being said, I did get some collectible items which I probably would not have purchased individually but might use since I had them.

With certain desirable collectibles being locked behind these crown crates, which are essentially glorified consumables bundles containing the chance of a collectible, it simply costs too much to obtain desired collectible items for the number of repeated unwanted collectibles and unwanted consumables without the blessing of good RNG. Since the crown crates seem to have been pitched as a way to obtain these collectibles (in fact the only way for many), the effective price to get what a player actually wants is significantly higher than it reasonably should be.

While I previously did not agree with the addition of randomly-generated crates to the game, after having a chance to test it and see how bad the returns are, I would say that not only do they not belong in the game in the first place but are also indicative of deceptive and predatory marketing practices and make me seriously consider whether I want to continue supporting or even playing the game once they are released to the live servers. Also considering that on the initial poll conducted regarding the addition of crown crates, 953 accounts indicated a ‘No’ response toward adding them to the game (an overwhelming 68% majority) as well an even more overwhelming 83% ‘Negative’ in the current poll at the time of this writing (plus another 14% voting ‘Neutral’), it seems quite clear what the general player sentiment is about the addition of crown crates to the game. The idea needs to be either scrapped entirely, or vastly re-worked to create a product that players actually want. Zenimax has stated that re-working the crown crate system is something that they are looking into, but it’s going to take a lot of revision to convince me at this point that they’re anything but a scam.

Nestor

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

Not threatening to quit the game over this, as I ignore the Crown Store on a daily basis anyway.

However, I will never buy a Crown Crate. And, I have 20K in Crowns to spend from my ESO Plus. If I don't know what I am getting, I am not going to buy it.

Ilsabet

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

I don't need to spend my time testing these on PTS as the results everybody else has posted speak for themselves.

These crates are a giant ripoff if what you want are the cosmetics, and nobody should buy them unless they feel like throwing money away or really like consumables.

With that said, they won't really affect my gameplay experience. I already don't sub, and since I buy the things in the crown store that appeal to me, I will continue not buying the things that don't appeal to me. I'll just go about playing the way I've always played. I may be disappointed if some of the pets or other items I like are crown crate exclusives, but then I'll just be content without owning them.

But it does leave a bad taste in the collective mouth that ZOS would go through with something that is a big middle finger to money-paying players while trying to cover it up as a great deal that people would totally buy anyway just for the consumables.

"A fool and his gold are soon parted, but you don't look foolish." - Haltafi, Vulkhel Guard Outlaws Refuge moneylender

Trufax.

Phinix1

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

This is proof that no matter how good a product the talent department comes up with, greedy corporate suits will inevitably destroy it all anyway.

This is the beginning of the end. All new cool mounts and cosmetics, and half the housing stuff (the stuff people really want) will all NOT be available on the Crown store from here on out. Now, you will have to spend hundreds of dollars playing the filthy crate lottery to MAYBE get something you will just feel like a chump for being suckered into once you have it.

This tells me that all the talk of caring about the Elder Scrolls community is just a crock.

They see this underhanded gambling system is universally hated, how it leaves a bad taste in EVERYONE'S mouth, de-incentivizes bothering with subs or the Crown store at all, and ruins the trust relationship that was build for their business model, and you know what they say?

"Screw the players, and screw the future of the game. I can milk the insecure rich vanity junkies for some quick cash in the short term. Integrity be damned."

Haven't been this disgusted/disappointed in the 2.5 years I have supported this game.

WalksonGraves

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

Hey at least they got that critical 1% of the player base that loves throwing away money. Oh man the occupy tamriel movement was right!

Phinix1

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

When paying customers are prevented from buying the things they want and supporting the game outright unless they go to a gambling casino to get it spending many times what it is worth, that is AS BAD as pay to win.

Now the future of the game will consist only of black-hole rich zombie potatoes standing around Rawl'kha on their 10k Crown rainbow unicorn mount hoping someone will walk by and feel jealous to re-inflate their flaccid self-esteem, and you know what?

No one will. They will leave in droves just like they did when they saw what Black Desert really was.

This system makes supporting the company feel cheap and dirty. Something that so totally undermines trust and respect of the customer base cannot be a viable long term success model.

There's not enough whale milk in the whole ocean to make up for how much you will lose for doing this.

Elsonso

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

So. Old thread closed. Long live the old thread. 117 pages. 3,499 comments. 75,661 views (so far).

I voted Yes in the other thread based on the description available at the time, which did not include exclusives. I changed my "Yes" to a "Likely Yes" after reading about the exclusives. I don't fret about exclusives. If I can't buy them, I can't buy them. Bummer, but I don't view that as my loss.

However, after seeing what they implemented, I realized that they put more effort into polishing this one new system than they did with appearance change, or costume dyes, or guild traders... pretty much every system they have rolled out since launch. We have already lost so much of what ESO could have been, and we will never get that back. Makes me sad. Changed my Yes to a No.

UrQuan

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

This poll is still relatively young, but 84% negative and only 1% positive? I don't think I've ever seen such an utter landslide poll on the forums before. And definitely not for a poll that included neutral options. This should tell ZOS something.

psychotic13

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

UrQuan wrote: »

This poll is still relatively young, but 84% negative and only 1% positive? I don't think I've ever seen such an utter landslide poll on the forums before. And definitely not for a poll that included neutral options. This should tell ZOS something.

Exactly this, If they're set on these crown crates then they need to revise how they work, this isn't classy at all it's a scam, exploiting gambling. No class ZOS, shame on you.

Slurg

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

UrQuan wrote: »

This poll is still relatively young, but 84% negative and only 1% positive? I don't think I've ever seen such an utter landslide poll on the forums before. And definitely not for a poll that included neutral options. This should tell ZOS something.

Yes it will tell them something, but the way they interpret it will be different than what we intend. Just like the last round of feedback, they will probably interpret it as they need to make the consumables in the crates even better so we will want them! And then if that doesn't work they should adjust the drop rates in game so we can't craft our own as easily and then we will really want the consumables! We have to want whatever it is they are giving us so we keep giving them money. Sure some of us will drop off but the new players surely will want the consumables! They are too heavily invested in the idea of these crates to drop them now.

They'll tweak the system just enough to get some players to accept the crates, and the rest of us can be replaced.

wayfarerx

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

Slurg wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

This poll is still relatively young, but 84% negative and only 1% positive? I don't think I've ever seen such an utter landslide poll on the forums before. And definitely not for a poll that included neutral options. This should tell ZOS something.

Yes it will tell them something, but the way they interpret it will be different than what we intend. Just like the last round of feedback, they will probably interpret it as they need to make the consumables in the crates even better so we will want them! And then if that doesn't work they should adjust the drop rates in game so we can't craft our own as easily and then we will really want the consumables! We have to want whatever it is they are giving us so we keep giving them money. Sure some of us will drop off but the new players surely will want the consumables! They are too heavily invested in the idea of these crates to drop them now.

If they were to totally drop the crates now someone would be getting fired, maybe even Firor. They've already done the press blitz, they've already done all the development work, we are getting these things one way or another.

The question is will ZOS make the kinds of changes necessary to turn these things from a scam into just another way to spend crowns.