Soul Assault

olsborg

Destyran wrote: »

Isnt turret just as bad??

Turret is blockable, dodgeable and deals less dmg, but you can plot it down and continue to atack your target yourself.

Dracane

olsborg wrote: »

Destyran wrote: »

Isnt turret just as bad??

Turret is blockable, dodgeable and deals less dmg, but you can plot it down and continue to atack your target yourself.

Soul assault is blockable as well.
And is turret really dodgeable ? That's good nows.

Omgwtfbbq321

Yeah this is true.

Alucardo

Super glad I boxed myself some Cyrodiil light jewellery. Gonna be fun next update bois

Mayrael

Lol... Slight buff to magica and whole rolly polly meta cries. Still prefer my stamblade over my magsorc. Yeah magsorc can take more (at least when we talk about face tanking) but it kills much slower and less...

leepalmer95

Mayrael wrote: »

Lol... Slight buff to magica and whole rolly polly meta cries. Still prefer my stamblade over my magsorc. Yeah magsorc can take more (at least when we talk about face tanking) but it kills much slower and less...

No it's a huge buff to zergs and Xv1 people in general.

Alucardo

It's quite hilarious. Seen so much soul assault on live in preparation for 1T. New players are going to think this is a space game with laser beams all over the place

Derra

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Lol... Slight buff to magica and whole rolly polly meta cries. Still prefer my stamblade over my magsorc. Yeah magsorc can take more (at least when we talk about face tanking) but it kills much slower and less...

No it's a huge buff to zergs and Xv1 people in general.

It just puts magica up to par with stam poisonprocctrolololo when Xv1ing. Also it´s the ranged Xv1 cloak counter that was needed to make cloak equally worthless as an escape tool as bolt escape already was with gapcloser spamming.
Now we need to push this further and explore possibilities to move the soulassault functionality to a normal skill.

Perhaps ZOS could implement a way where the burning status effect keeps you from cloaking because you´re literally a running torch?

I´m waiting for the shade nerf next.

BlackMadara

People say this buffs zergs and Xv1 but, chances are, you aren't surviving 3-5 ults being dropped on you at once. Unless you are specced to be a full tank. So any offensive ult is a "buff" to those playstyles. I know one of the most frustrating things I run into is when 3 people pop ults on me at once, with a fear thrown in. I died, you should die. How is the new SA so much stronger than meteor, dawn breaker, etc when you are outnumbered and they hit you at once?

leepalmer95

BlackMadara wrote: »

People say this buffs zergs and Xv1 but, chances are, you aren't surviving 3-5 ults being dropped on you at once. Unless you are specced to be a full tank. So any offensive ult is a "buff" to those playstyles. I know one of the most frustrating things I run into is when 3 people pop ults on me at once, with a fear thrown in. I died, you should die. How is the new SA so much stronger than meteor, dawn breaker, etc when you are outnumbered and they hit you at once?

Because with soul assault, its very cheap and they don't need to drop 3-5 ult's at once (who does that vs 1 person..) , just anyone of the zerg just needs to pop soul assault and you have an unpurgable 70% snare on you and are literally forced to block because it you don't you'll get melted by the 80k tooltip 4s dot.. You block + 70% snare means you stop moving, you stop moving you die.

If your a mag build blocking a soul assault will drop your stamina to nearly empty.

If you a stam build you gonna have to spam vigor once and hope in the 4s your stood still and lose all mobility the zerg doesn't spam you to death.

Rilmarshim

Minalan wrote: »

Suck it up, dry up your stam tears, and use the new sword and board ultimate to block it. It's free.

Nah. I better will one/twoshot everyone with Berserker Strike->Execturioner so they go to the forum and cry about OP stamina burst :P

BlackMadara

leepalmer95 wrote: »

BlackMadara wrote: »

People say this buffs zergs and Xv1 but, chances are, you aren't surviving 3-5 ults being dropped on you at once. Unless you are specced to be a full tank. So any offensive ult is a "buff" to those playstyles. I know one of the most frustrating things I run into is when 3 people pop ults on me at once, with a fear thrown in. I died, you should die. How is the new SA so much stronger than meteor, dawn breaker, etc when you are outnumbered and they hit you at once?

Because with soul assault, its very cheap and they don't need to drop 3-5 ult's at once (who does that vs 1 person..) , just anyone of the zerg just needs to pop soul assault and you have an unpurgable 70% snare on you and are literally forced to block because it you don't you'll get melted by the 80k tooltip 4s dot.. You block + 70% snare means you stop moving, you stop moving you die.

If your a mag build blocking a soul assault will drop your stamina to nearly empty.

If you a stam build you gonna have to spam vigor once and hope in the 4s your stood still and lose all mobility the zerg doesn't spam you to death.

For the record, I had a meteor and dawn breaker dropped on me while a temp used his healing ult on me by some blues yesterday (overkill?)

If someone drops a meteor on you, you are forced to block, RD forced to block or LOS. There are multiple things that stop your movement, which work against you while outnumbered. Idk about being immune to CC while using it, but it is an ult and shouldn't be purge able when the dmg only comes from a dot/channel. ZOS doesn't like normal, spamable skulls countering ultimates. That's why meteors can't be reflected, cloaked, or purged anymore, and that's how it should be. Not saying there shouldn't be counter play, but ultimates should be more powerful than regular skills

leepalmer95

BlackMadara wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

BlackMadara wrote: »

People say this buffs zergs and Xv1 but, chances are, you aren't surviving 3-5 ults being dropped on you at once. Unless you are specced to be a full tank. So any offensive ult is a "buff" to those playstyles. I know one of the most frustrating things I run into is when 3 people pop ults on me at once, with a fear thrown in. I died, you should die. How is the new SA so much stronger than meteor, dawn breaker, etc when you are outnumbered and they hit you at once?

Because with soul assault, its very cheap and they don't need to drop 3-5 ult's at once (who does that vs 1 person..) , just anyone of the zerg just needs to pop soul assault and you have an unpurgable 70% snare on you and are literally forced to block because it you don't you'll get melted by the 80k tooltip 4s dot.. You block + 70% snare means you stop moving, you stop moving you die.

If your a mag build blocking a soul assault will drop your stamina to nearly empty.

If you a stam build you gonna have to spam vigor once and hope in the 4s your stood still and lose all mobility the zerg doesn't spam you to death.

For the record, I had a meteor and dawn breaker dropped on me while a temp used his healing ult on me by some blues yesterday (overkill?)

If someone drops a meteor on you, you are forced to block, RD forced to block or LOS. There are multiple things that stop your movement, which work against you while outnumbered. Idk about being immune to CC while using it, but it is an ult and shouldn't be purge able when the dmg only comes from a dot/channel. ZOS doesn't like normal, spamable skulls countering ultimates. That's why meteors can't be reflected, cloaked, or purged anymore, and that's how it should be. Not saying there shouldn't be counter play, but ultimates should be more powerful than regular skills

But this ultimate is literally an Xv1 tool.

With meteor you block just before it hits and move away, it costs 200 ult.

Soul assault is half the cost, that lasts 4s and has a 70% snare attached to it.

Xvorg

Minalan wrote: »

Papa_Hunt wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Papa_Hunt wrote: »

I don't quite understand what's new with Soul Assault. Why would you use it AND RD? Why not just continue to spam RD?

RD doesn't do much against high health targets.

SA does, and it will tear you to quarter health or lower if you don't block it. Then RD finishes you off in a second.

Thanks! Wasn't thinking...again.

I don't think ZOS considered all of the consequences of this. The ult is like what, 75 cost? It's so cheap it's practically spammable.

Magicka Sorcs and Magicka Templars will make great use of it. Sorcs will sit in mines/volcanic rune and SA people with the swarm mother set and watch them explode. Magicka Templars will SA/RD spam and you can barely tell the difference between them on the receiving end of so many Jesus beams.

Magblades too

PS4_ZeColmeia

Every skill is better Xv1. There are literally no skills that get weaker in a group.

Everything helps the zerg except for the mechanics put in to hurt them which are offensive sets.

Rilmarshim

PS4_ZeColmeia wrote: »

Every skill is better Xv1. There are literally no skills that get weaker in a group.

Everything helps the zerg except for the mechanics put in to hurt them which are offensive sets.

You have more chance to escape from a big group if you can dodge their range attacks. Ypu can escape a severak archers or mages spamming force shock. But no chances if you got focused by several undodgeable channels.

bowmanz607

Listen, this whole "it helps xv1" is just garbage imo. It has been stated over and over and confirmed again and again by the devs that this game is not going to be balanced for a meta that factors in the life of a solo player trying to take on multiple people. It has been consistently stated that "if you are outnumbered, 9/10 you will die." This is the concept zos has stuck with since launch and shows no sign of changing. We should never expect that.

This game was meant to be LARGE scale. It was meant to utilize and fight strategically using large scale map strategy and tactics. Small scale combat that has been available through the game is more a side effect of that large scale engagement. This is what the game has been balanced around. (To that end i love the small skirmishes around the the larger keep fights, but they have been less and less over the last year or so.)

Any skill in which people just all hammer on you should result in death. That is how the game has been since the start and been reaffirmed since. This is also where dueling and arena comes in. This is where you get your small scale combat. Now think of SA used on that level. In dueling it is fine. In small scale arenas it would also be fine. The complaint is it is another tool for xv1 but that is not an issue when sides are even.

Additionally, and on a more personal note, the player this effects the most is the tree hugging, rock jumping, los, vigor, shuffle, dodgeroll spamming, 2h/bow, velidreth/black rose wearing player. You know them. It is your fotm players.These players are just as annoying as the zerglings. Perhaps more so. I have zero sympathy for those players.

Basically, the problem of it being a tool for xv1 is not an issue for the dev team based on their principles and goals for cyrodil pvp. two, small scale pvp is coming in which it wont be an issue in. three, the group of players it effects the most will get no sympathy from me

end rant!

Derra

bowmanz607 wrote: »

This game was meant to be LARGE scale. It was meant to utilize and fight strategically using large scale map strategy and tactics. Small scale combat that has been available through the game is more a side effect of that large scale engagement. This is what the game has been balanced around. (To that end i love the small skirmishes around the the larger keep fights, but they have been less and less over the last year or so.)

I´m also one of the ppl thinking it only hits the "right" portion of the playerbase. It´s a counter specifically designed to burn 2h + bow NB builds on magica toons in my opinion (and it will destroy those in 1v1 aswell).

Yet your statement shows lack of understanding of the general problem with ZOS´ design philosophy. Have you ever asked yourself why there have been less and less small skirmishes around keeps and in the open world between them? That´s the direct result of the "when you´re outnumbered you die" philosophy.

ZOS has taken this statement "when you´re outnumbered you die" to a new extreme with every patch in a way - because they don´t feel outnumbering an enemy in itself is advantage enough so they:
-First nerfed all mobility that allowed you to escape outnumbered situation (bowspeed, streak, targetable mistform etc pp)
-Then nerfed survivability or implemented hardcounters (shieldbreaker, blocking, dodgecostincrease, soulassault etc pp)
-They removed tools to fight higher numbers on the enemy team (dynamic ulti)
-They implemented NEW things to favor numerous players attacking single targets (poisons)

To top this off they reimplemented forward camps and all pvp that is left is a zergfest at alessia bridge or a random keep of your choosing while the server goes to sh*t every evening.

What makes this so absurd is that most of the balance changes made to the game were directly targetted at smallscale, dueling or 1vX / Xv1 engagements. Not to promote those - no they were made to make this kind of engagements less desireable and they implemented mechanics that made it it harder to win when already at a numerical disatvantage. In a game that can´t handle largescale engagements without having 1000+ pingspikes.

So not only is the statement of the game being balanced around largescale partially if not fully incorrect. The decision to try to harm smallscale encounters by directly nerfing the tools used in them is also a design decision that directly pushes the game in a direction for combat that their technology is not able to handle.

It´s like showering oneself with gasoline because you like the smell while also searching for a match to light a cigarette (and whoever is making these decisions needs to be adressed to a different task).

Hashtag_

Another zerg empowering ability...go figure.

Rilmarshim

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Listen, this whole "it helps xv1" is just garbage imo. It has been stated over and over and confirmed again and again by the devs that this game is not going to be balanced for a meta that factors in the life of a solo player trying to take on multiple people. It has been consistently stated that "if you are outnumbered, 9/10 you will die."

Oh please not this crap again. I know that if you outnumbered you are in disadvantage - it's obvious and it's fine. But if you don't have chances to kill them all you must have at least chances to escape.

Rikumaru

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Listen, this whole "it helps xv1" is just garbage imo. It has been stated over and over and confirmed again and again by the devs that this game is not going to be balanced for a meta that factors in the life of a solo player trying to take on multiple people. It has been consistently stated that "if you are outnumbered, 9/10 you will die." This is the concept zos has stuck with since launch and shows no sign of changing. We should never expect that.

This game was meant to be LARGE scale. It was meant to utilize and fight strategically using large scale map strategy and tactics. Small scale combat that has been available through the game is more a side effect of that large scale engagement. This is what the game has been balanced around. (To that end i love the small skirmishes around the the larger keep fights, but they have been less and less over the last year or so.)

Any skill in which people just all hammer on you should result in death. That is how the game has been since the start and been reaffirmed since. This is also where dueling and arena comes in. This is where you get your small scale combat. Now think of SA used on that level. In dueling it is fine. In small scale arenas it would also be fine. The complaint is it is another tool for xv1 but that is not an issue when sides are even.

Additionally, and on a more personal note, the player this effects the most is the tree hugging, rock jumping, los, vigor, shuffle, dodgeroll spamming, 2h/bow, velidreth/black rose wearing player. You know them. It is your fotm players.These players are just as annoying as the zerglings. Perhaps more so. I have zero sympathy for those players.

Basically, the problem of it being a tool for xv1 is not an issue for the dev team based on their principles and goals for cyrodil pvp. two, small scale pvp is coming in which it wont be an issue in. three, the group of players it effects the most will get no sympathy from me

end rant!

No, this game was initially designed for all sorts of players; solo players, small groups, large groups, etc...
Its people like you who got every ability / mechanic which benefited the outnumbered nerfed / removed. ZOS ENCOURAGED small scale / solo PvP, hell they even put a book in the game which told of a battle during beta at chalman keep and how the outnumbered defended for a hefty amount of time vs countless players against all odds. Every single patch since 1.7 has nerfed solo / small scale people, its just completely ridiculous.

bowmanz607

Derra wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

This game was meant to be LARGE scale. It was meant to utilize and fight strategically using large scale map strategy and tactics. Small scale combat that has been available through the game is more a side effect of that large scale engagement. This is what the game has been balanced around. (To that end i love the small skirmishes around the the larger keep fights, but they have been less and less over the last year or so.)

I´m also one of the ppl thinking it only hits the "right" portion of the playerbase. It´s a counter specifically designed to burn 2h + bow NB builds on magica toons in my opinion (and it will destroy those in 1v1 aswell).

Yet your statement shows lack of understanding of the general problem with ZOS´ design philosophy. Have you ever asked yourself why there have been less and less small skirmishes around keeps and in the open world between them? That´s the direct result of the "when you´re outnumbered you die" philosophy.

ZOS has taken this statement "when you´re outnumbered you die" to a new extreme with every patch in a way - because they don´t feel outnumbering an enemy in itself is advantage enough so they:
-First nerfed all mobility that allowed you to escape outnumbered situation (bowspeed, streak, targetable mistform etc pp)
-Then nerfed survivability or implemented hardcounters (shieldbreaker, blocking, dodgecostincrease, soulassault etc pp)
-They removed tools to fight higher numbers on the enemy team (dynamic ulti)
-They implemented NEW things to favor numerous players attacking single targets (poisons)

To top this off they reimplemented forward camps and all pvp that is left is a zergfest at alessia bridge or a random keep of your choosing while the server goes to sh*t every evening.

What makes this so absurd is that most of the balance changes made to the game were directly targetted at smallscale, dueling or 1vX / Xv1 engagements. Not to promote those - no they were made to make this kind of engagements less desireable and they implemented mechanics that made it it harder to win when already at a numerical disatvantage. In a game that can´t handle largescale engagements without having 1000+ pingspikes.

So not only is the statement of the game being balanced around largescale partially if not fully incorrect. The decision to try to harm smallscale encounters by directly nerfing the tools used in them is also a design decision that directly pushes the game in a direction for combat that their technology is not able to handle.

It´s like showering oneself with gasoline because you like the smell while also searching for a match to light a cigarette (and whoever is making these decisions needs to be adressed to a different task).

I don't disagree that the design philosophy should not be what it is. I'm just stating that they won't change it and this has been reaffirmed. The changes to small scale etc have still been balanced around the large scale desire this game strives for.

bowmanz607

Rikumaru wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Listen, this whole "it helps xv1" is just garbage imo. It has been stated over and over and confirmed again and again by the devs that this game is not going to be balanced for a meta that factors in the life of a solo player trying to take on multiple people. It has been consistently stated that "if you are outnumbered, 9/10 you will die." This is the concept zos has stuck with since launch and shows no sign of changing. We should never expect that.

This game was meant to be LARGE scale. It was meant to utilize and fight strategically using large scale map strategy and tactics. Small scale combat that has been available through the game is more a side effect of that large scale engagement. This is what the game has been balanced around. (To that end i love the small skirmishes around the the larger keep fights, but they have been less and less over the last year or so.)

Any skill in which people just all hammer on you should result in death. That is how the game has been since the start and been reaffirmed since. This is also where dueling and arena comes in. This is where you get your small scale combat. Now think of SA used on that level. In dueling it is fine. In small scale arenas it would also be fine. The complaint is it is another tool for xv1 but that is not an issue when sides are even.

Additionally, and on a more personal note, the player this effects the most is the tree hugging, rock jumping, los, vigor, shuffle, dodgeroll spamming, 2h/bow, velidreth/black rose wearing player. You know them. It is your fotm players.These players are just as annoying as the zerglings. Perhaps more so. I have zero sympathy for those players.

Basically, the problem of it being a tool for xv1 is not an issue for the dev team based on their principles and goals for cyrodil pvp. two, small scale pvp is coming in which it wont be an issue in. three, the group of players it effects the most will get no sympathy from me

end rant!

No, this game was initially designed for all sorts of players; solo players, small groups, large groups, etc...
Its people like you who got every ability / mechanic which benefited the outnumbered nerfed / removed. ZOS ENCOURAGED small scale / solo PvP, hell they even put a book in the game which told of a battle during beta at chalman keep and how the outnumbered defended for a hefty amount of time vs countless players against all odds. Every single patch since 1.7 has nerfed solo / small scale people, its just completely ridiculous.

It was still balanced around large scale. It is not balanced around small scale. It was made to allow all play styles but it has not been balanced around that.

You say people like me but I am mostly a solo player myself. I am guilty of the player I described above. I simply acknowledge what the devs are doing and consistently done since launch. Balance and cater to large scale.

It is also still possible for a small group to hold a keep against a larger force. I have been part of many recently.

Rikumaru

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Listen, this whole "it helps xv1" is just garbage imo. It has been stated over and over and confirmed again and again by the devs that this game is not going to be balanced for a meta that factors in the life of a solo player trying to take on multiple people. It has been consistently stated that "if you are outnumbered, 9/10 you will die." This is the concept zos has stuck with since launch and shows no sign of changing. We should never expect that.

This game was meant to be LARGE scale. It was meant to utilize and fight strategically using large scale map strategy and tactics. Small scale combat that has been available through the game is more a side effect of that large scale engagement. This is what the game has been balanced around. (To that end i love the small skirmishes around the the larger keep fights, but they have been less and less over the last year or so.)

Any skill in which people just all hammer on you should result in death. That is how the game has been since the start and been reaffirmed since. This is also where dueling and arena comes in. This is where you get your small scale combat. Now think of SA used on that level. In dueling it is fine. In small scale arenas it would also be fine. The complaint is it is another tool for xv1 but that is not an issue when sides are even.

Additionally, and on a more personal note, the player this effects the most is the tree hugging, rock jumping, los, vigor, shuffle, dodgeroll spamming, 2h/bow, velidreth/black rose wearing player. You know them. It is your fotm players.These players are just as annoying as the zerglings. Perhaps more so. I have zero sympathy for those players.

Basically, the problem of it being a tool for xv1 is not an issue for the dev team based on their principles and goals for cyrodil pvp. two, small scale pvp is coming in which it wont be an issue in. three, the group of players it effects the most will get no sympathy from me

end rant!

No, this game was initially designed for all sorts of players; solo players, small groups, large groups, etc...
Its people like you who got every ability / mechanic which benefited the outnumbered nerfed / removed. ZOS ENCOURAGED small scale / solo PvP, hell they even put a book in the game which told of a battle during beta at chalman keep and how the outnumbered defended for a hefty amount of time vs countless players against all odds. Every single patch since 1.7 has nerfed solo / small scale people, its just completely ridiculous.

It was still balanced around large scale. It is not balanced around small scale. It was made to allow all play styles but it has not been balanced around that.

You say people like me but I am mostly a solo player myself. I am guilty of the player I described above. I simply acknowledge what the devs are doing and consistently done since launch. Balance and cater to large scale.

It is also still possible for a small group to hold a keep against a larger force. I have been part of many recently.

But what ZOS are doing is not balance around large scale but rather to screw over small scale players. How many large group battles such as a 40 v 40 will be won over using soul assault? This skill change is just another nail in the coffin to solo players.

Khaos_Bane

Minalan wrote: »

Papa_Hunt wrote: »

I don't quite understand what's new with Soul Assault. Why would you use it AND RD? Why not just continue to spam RD?

RD doesn't do much against high health targets.

SA does, and it will tear you to quarter health or lower if you don't block it. Then RD finishes you off in a second.

Oh Really? This must be fixed IMMEDIATELY. WE DON'T WANT ANYONE BUT STA NB KILLING PEOPLE INSTANTLY.

UN-FRIKKIN-BELIEVEABLE

HOW DARE MAG BASED BUILDS BE ABLE TO KILL SOMETHING QUICKLY, THAT'S TOTAL BS BREH

Minalan

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Papa_Hunt wrote: »

I don't quite understand what's new with Soul Assault. Why would you use it AND RD? Why not just continue to spam RD?

RD doesn't do much against high health targets.

SA does, and it will tear you to quarter health or lower if you don't block it. Then RD finishes you off in a second.

Oh Really? This must be fixed IMMEDIATELY. WE DON'T WANT ANYONE BUT STA NB KILLING PEOPLE INSTANTLY.

UN-FRIKKIN-BELIEVEABLE

HOW DARE MAG BASED BUILDS BE ABLE TO KILL SOMETHING QUICKLY, THAT'S TOTAL BS BREH

I'd rather they fix Sorc and dragon knight magicka class abilities to balance things out.

Magicka Templar really really really really (is that enough 'reallys'?) doesn't need another Jesus beam.

I don't want to see RD nerfed guys, but this ability basically hands Magicka Templars the keys to the nuclear suitcase.

Derra

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

This game was meant to be LARGE scale. It was meant to utilize and fight strategically using large scale map strategy and tactics. Small scale combat that has been available through the game is more a side effect of that large scale engagement. This is what the game has been balanced around. (To that end i love the small skirmishes around the the larger keep fights, but they have been less and less over the last year or so.)

I´m also one of the ppl thinking it only hits the "right" portion of the playerbase. It´s a counter specifically designed to burn 2h + bow NB builds on magica toons in my opinion (and it will destroy those in 1v1 aswell).

Yet your statement shows lack of understanding of the general problem with ZOS´ design philosophy. Have you ever asked yourself why there have been less and less small skirmishes around keeps and in the open world between them? That´s the direct result of the "when you´re outnumbered you die" philosophy.

ZOS has taken this statement "when you´re outnumbered you die" to a new extreme with every patch in a way - because they don´t feel outnumbering an enemy in itself is advantage enough so they:
-First nerfed all mobility that allowed you to escape outnumbered situation (bowspeed, streak, targetable mistform etc pp)
-Then nerfed survivability or implemented hardcounters (shieldbreaker, blocking, dodgecostincrease, soulassault etc pp)
-They removed tools to fight higher numbers on the enemy team (dynamic ulti)
-They implemented NEW things to favor numerous players attacking single targets (poisons)

To top this off they reimplemented forward camps and all pvp that is left is a zergfest at alessia bridge or a random keep of your choosing while the server goes to sh*t every evening.

What makes this so absurd is that most of the balance changes made to the game were directly targetted at smallscale, dueling or 1vX / Xv1 engagements. Not to promote those - no they were made to make this kind of engagements less desireable and they implemented mechanics that made it it harder to win when already at a numerical disatvantage. In a game that can´t handle largescale engagements without having 1000+ pingspikes.

So not only is the statement of the game being balanced around largescale partially if not fully incorrect. The decision to try to harm smallscale encounters by directly nerfing the tools used in them is also a design decision that directly pushes the game in a direction for combat that their technology is not able to handle.

It´s like showering oneself with gasoline because you like the smell while also searching for a match to light a cigarette (and whoever is making these decisions needs to be adressed to a different task).

I don't disagree that the design philosophy should not be what it is. I'm just stating that they won't change it and this has been reaffirmed. The changes to small scale etc have still been balanced around the large scale desire this game strives for.

Well i think the exact problem is that they´re not only balancing for largescale.
They patch for balancing largescale and on top of that patch to get rid of smallscale - or atleast make it significantly harder with every patch since 1.7 hit.

I get when they don´t want to follow it and balance according to smallscale. But they´re doing quite the opposite. They are obviously following smallscale pvp and balance to counteract any attempts. Which i my opinion makes no sense. The people who want to smallman are not going to play siege games in 1000 ping when you take away their playthings. Those people leave the game.

bowmanz607

Rikumaru wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Listen, this whole "it helps xv1" is just garbage imo. It has been stated over and over and confirmed again and again by the devs that this game is not going to be balanced for a meta that factors in the life of a solo player trying to take on multiple people. It has been consistently stated that "if you are outnumbered, 9/10 you will die." This is the concept zos has stuck with since launch and shows no sign of changing. We should never expect that.

This game was meant to be LARGE scale. It was meant to utilize and fight strategically using large scale map strategy and tactics. Small scale combat that has been available through the game is more a side effect of that large scale engagement. This is what the game has been balanced around. (To that end i love the small skirmishes around the the larger keep fights, but they have been less and less over the last year or so.)

Any skill in which people just all hammer on you should result in death. That is how the game has been since the start and been reaffirmed since. This is also where dueling and arena comes in. This is where you get your small scale combat. Now think of SA used on that level. In dueling it is fine. In small scale arenas it would also be fine. The complaint is it is another tool for xv1 but that is not an issue when sides are even.

Additionally, and on a more personal note, the player this effects the most is the tree hugging, rock jumping, los, vigor, shuffle, dodgeroll spamming, 2h/bow, velidreth/black rose wearing player. You know them. It is your fotm players.These players are just as annoying as the zerglings. Perhaps more so. I have zero sympathy for those players.

Basically, the problem of it being a tool for xv1 is not an issue for the dev team based on their principles and goals for cyrodil pvp. two, small scale pvp is coming in which it wont be an issue in. three, the group of players it effects the most will get no sympathy from me

end rant!

No, this game was initially designed for all sorts of players; solo players, small groups, large groups, etc...
Its people like you who got every ability / mechanic which benefited the outnumbered nerfed / removed. ZOS ENCOURAGED small scale / solo PvP, hell they even put a book in the game which told of a battle during beta at chalman keep and how the outnumbered defended for a hefty amount of time vs countless players against all odds. Every single patch since 1.7 has nerfed solo / small scale people, its just completely ridiculous.

It was still balanced around large scale. It is not balanced around small scale. It was made to allow all play styles but it has not been balanced around that.

You say people like me but I am mostly a solo player myself. I am guilty of the player I described above. I simply acknowledge what the devs are doing and consistently done since launch. Balance and cater to large scale.

It is also still possible for a small group to hold a keep against a larger force. I have been part of many recently.

But what ZOS are doing is not balance around large scale but rather to screw over small scale players. How many large group battles such as a 40 v 40 will be won over using soul assault? This skill change is just another nail in the coffin to solo players.

That is my point. It IS balanced for large scale. Notice the issue is not large scale for some. So again it is and was balanced for large scale. The complaint is that the player it effects most is the solo player who is outnumbered. Again, zos logic which has been reaffirmed over and over is that your outnumber so you should die.

Xvorg

Alucardo wrote: »

It's quite hilarious. Seen so much soul assault on live in preparation for 1T. New players are going to think this is a space game with laser beams all over the place

I've been using Soul assault since some months and I really liked it not being blockable

bowmanz607

Derra wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

This game was meant to be LARGE scale. It was meant to utilize and fight strategically using large scale map strategy and tactics. Small scale combat that has been available through the game is more a side effect of that large scale engagement. This is what the game has been balanced around. (To that end i love the small skirmishes around the the larger keep fights, but they have been less and less over the last year or so.)

I´m also one of the ppl thinking it only hits the "right" portion of the playerbase. It´s a counter specifically designed to burn 2h + bow NB builds on magica toons in my opinion (and it will destroy those in 1v1 aswell).

Yet your statement shows lack of understanding of the general problem with ZOS´ design philosophy. Have you ever asked yourself why there have been less and less small skirmishes around keeps and in the open world between them? That´s the direct result of the "when you´re outnumbered you die" philosophy.

ZOS has taken this statement "when you´re outnumbered you die" to a new extreme with every patch in a way - because they don´t feel outnumbering an enemy in itself is advantage enough so they:
-First nerfed all mobility that allowed you to escape outnumbered situation (bowspeed, streak, targetable mistform etc pp)
-Then nerfed survivability or implemented hardcounters (shieldbreaker, blocking, dodgecostincrease, soulassault etc pp)
-They removed tools to fight higher numbers on the enemy team (dynamic ulti)
-They implemented NEW things to favor numerous players attacking single targets (poisons)

To top this off they reimplemented forward camps and all pvp that is left is a zergfest at alessia bridge or a random keep of your choosing while the server goes to sh*t every evening.

What makes this so absurd is that most of the balance changes made to the game were directly targetted at smallscale, dueling or 1vX / Xv1 engagements. Not to promote those - no they were made to make this kind of engagements less desireable and they implemented mechanics that made it it harder to win when already at a numerical disatvantage. In a game that can´t handle largescale engagements without having 1000+ pingspikes.

So not only is the statement of the game being balanced around largescale partially if not fully incorrect. The decision to try to harm smallscale encounters by directly nerfing the tools used in them is also a design decision that directly pushes the game in a direction for combat that their technology is not able to handle.

It´s like showering oneself with gasoline because you like the smell while also searching for a match to light a cigarette (and whoever is making these decisions needs to be adressed to a different task).

I don't disagree that the design philosophy should not be what it is. I'm just stating that they won't change it and this has been reaffirmed. The changes to small scale etc have still been balanced around the large scale desire this game strives for.

Well i think the exact problem is that they´re not only balancing for largescale.
They patch for balancing largescale and on top of that patch to get rid of smallscale - or atleast make it significantly harder with every patch since 1.7 hit.

I get when they don´t want to follow it and balance according to smallscale. But they´re doing quite the opposite. They are obviously following smallscale pvp and balance to counteract any attempts. Which i my opinion makes no sense. The people who want to smallman are not going to play siege games in 1000 ping when you take away their playthings. Those people leave the game.

I disagree. They are not balancing game in order to stop small scale. They are balancing for large scale and the side effect of that is a detriment to small scale. Specifically, solo play.