False Emperors

Ghostbane

Humphie wrote: »

Ghostbane wrote: »

donJay wrote: »

Guild of Shadows asked me to pay 500k gold to have them push my emp.

Sheet. I'd have done it on my own for 50k.

Make me emp Bae, I pay you nothing!

Not even waffles..?

Alucardo

Sandman929 wrote: »

Emp doesn't mean anything. I'd like it change, but I don't know of a way that isn't open to the same backdooring as the current system, so I've just made my peace and decided to not care about it.
Can anyone think of any method of ranking that isn't exploitable? If ZOS policed their own game it'd be a different story.

For one, I'd like to see wall repairing taken out of the equation. Sure you can still earn AP from repairing walls, but it doesn't go towards your score at all.
Secondly, you need to have participated in the emp keep fights for a period of time. We had a guy get emp from duelling at the bottom of the map a few months ago. DUELLING. Hopefully this rule will help prevent feeding also. Generally people go into caves so they won't get caught by the crossed swords on the map, and if they are feeding at a busy keep, they will get busted.

Valen_Byte

Ghostbane wrote: »

Humphie wrote: »

Ghostbane wrote: »

donJay wrote: »

Guild of Shadows asked me to pay 500k gold to have them push my emp.

Sheet. I'd have done it on my own for 50k.

Make me emp Bae, I pay you nothing!

Not even waffles..?

Are you roflomgwaffles? or something like that? Bwb current emp?

Humphie

Ghostbane wrote: »

Humphie wrote: »

Ghostbane wrote: »

donJay wrote: »

Guild of Shadows asked me to pay 500k gold to have them push my emp.

Sheet. I'd have done it on my own for 50k.

Make me emp Bae, I pay you nothing!

Not even waffles..?

Nope. Not even waffles. Sweetrolls maybe...If you behave. But the divorce is still not off the table.

DocFrost72

People exploring the method of gaining AP, so let's make it impossible for good people who don't meet these ridiculous requirements to get it?

It takes legit 5 minutes to learn to use siege, if you're a Sargeant and clueless more ranking isn't going to help you, especially if that rank is earned by cheese farming. I propose that if you hate boosting (as I interpreted your message) make AP based on group objectives stronger, and make resources no longer offer Dticks. No more tower farms, more people playing the map.

AddiZ

Stanko wrote: »

I have played ESO since launch. For the past few months, I have mostly played on Haderus and I have ALWAYS played as EP. I have a lot of PVP experience and I work to organize the swarm of EP pugs through my main guild, M4D.

Yesterday for the first time ever, I crossed faction lines and used my vet-level DC toon to fight and dethrone an EP Emperor. I was one of twelve apostles of doom in the Legion of Mordor raid that spearheaded the DC assault. No EP force could stand in our path. By 2AM EST, a DC emperor was crowned.

Why you may ask, would I perform such a blasphemous deed? Quite simply, I am tired of False Emperors. I am tired of cheaters with 313cp who subvert the obvious intent of the game. They AP farm their way to the top of the leaderboard (yes, we know exactly what you are doing) and don't contribute anything to the camaraderie that develops among those of us who truly love PVP and fight the battles. They are the people who somehow feel that they are entitled, when they really haven't come close to earning the privilege of wearing the regalia. Quite simply, they are the annoying people who somehow feel that we all play this game for their benefit.

To limit this farce in the future, I propose the following two additional conditions upon Emperorship (in vet-level campaigns).

1) You MUST have maximum CP to qualify as Emperor. The Emperor should be a fearsome force, not some whelp with purple gear.

2) You MUST have achieved the rank of Tribune or higher in the Alliance Wars. It's pathetic that some Emperors barely even know how to use siege, never-mind the strategy and tactics required to properly lead a faction.

Until these measures are enacted, I will continue to cross faction lines and actively work to dethrone the cheaters. I encourage others to do the same. We as a PVP community deserve better. For now, this is the only way.

Ive been pvping on an off since beta and i got my 1st emp yesterday with an week old NB in Haderus. Im cp 517 do i satisfy your standards?

O sweet just increased mages guild to rank 4 yayyy

Sandman929

With the way they have to play to get it, I just don't understand why people still want it. The farming, boosting, making little deals and buying people out of campaigns...is there really any sense of accomplishment involved at this point? I've known a lot of Emps and most are good players, I just don't get why they put themselves through all the nonsense.
Some do it multiple times too.
I enjoy my gold rewards, killing my way to a high enough spot on the leader boards, but the grind and drama and exploitative crap that goes into getting Emp is just not worth it.
It'd be nice if it meant something, but it doesn't.

Nihilos

donJay wrote: »

Guild of Shadows asked me to pay 500k gold to have them push my emp.

I'll push you to emp for free baby

caeliusstarbreaker

Sandman929 wrote: »

With the way they have to play to get it, I just don't understand why people still want it. The farming, boosting, making little deals and buying people out of campaigns...is there really any sense of accomplishment involved at this point? I've known a lot of Emps and most are good players, I just don't get why they put themselves through all the nonsense.
Some do it multiple times too.
I enjoy my gold rewards, killing my way to a high enough spot on the leader boards, but the grind and drama and exploitative crap that goes into getting Emp is just not worth it.
It'd be nice if it meant something, but it doesn't.

Isn't that how great power is attained anyways?

Sandman929

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

With the way they have to play to get it, I just don't understand why people still want it. The farming, boosting, making little deals and buying people out of campaigns...is there really any sense of accomplishment involved at this point? I've known a lot of Emps and most are good players, I just don't get why they put themselves through all the nonsense.
Some do it multiple times too.
I enjoy my gold rewards, killing my way to a high enough spot on the leader boards, but the grind and drama and exploitative crap that goes into getting Emp is just not worth it.
It'd be nice if it meant something, but it doesn't.

Isn't that how great power is attained anyways?

It's a video game. Let's not get carried away with "great power".

Nihilos

Sandman929 wrote: »

With the way they have to play to get it, I just don't understand why people still want it. The farming, boosting, making little deals and buying people out of campaigns...is there really any sense of accomplishment involved at this point? I've known a lot of Emps and most are good players, I just don't get why they put themselves through all the nonsense.
Some do it multiple times too.
I enjoy my gold rewards, killing my way to a high enough spot on the leader boards, but the grind and drama and exploitative crap that goes into getting Emp is just not worth it.
It'd be nice if it meant something, but it doesn't.

The last time I went for emp I had all three alliances join forces to keep me from getting it. I took a small break from the game after that, it's not worth the stress. PvP is supposed to be fun.

caeliusstarbreaker

Sandman929 wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

With the way they have to play to get it, I just don't understand why people still want it. The farming, boosting, making little deals and buying people out of campaigns...is there really any sense of accomplishment involved at this point? I've known a lot of Emps and most are good players, I just don't get why they put themselves through all the nonsense.
Some do it multiple times too.
I enjoy my gold rewards, killing my way to a high enough spot on the leader boards, but the grind and drama and exploitative crap that goes into getting Emp is just not worth it.
It'd be nice if it meant something, but it doesn't.

Isn't that how great power is attained anyways?

It's a video game. Let's not get carried away with "great power".

Just drawing a correlation bud.

Sandman929

One way we might ever get to "real" Emps is with conditional AP resets. At the start of a campaign, all factions reset to owning their gate keeps only and all other keeps are neutral (no one can get in them until they capture them).
AP counted toward Emp (which would have to be disconnected from overall campaign AP) is reset at this point and start accumulating until one faction captures all Emp keeps, and then Emp AP is reset again.
Dethrones reset Emp AP as well for all players in all factions.
This would keep AP accumulated through various ways of farming that aren't connected to map objectives in check, or closer to it.

Soul_Demon

I wonder what would happen if resources no longer gave d-ticks and you gained the increased AP buff for 30 min after participating in keep take (if you dropped siege) or outpost take. Of course you could make that buff even sweeter if you also added in a homekeep perk to that (say AP gained was times 2% for 30 as well if it was a homekeep)

AP farmers would be actively participating in the war effort just to maximize the gains- win for them, win for the faction as the map was played more. EMPs hanging around solo farming would find it tough to hold the top spot on the boards if the playing of the map were more advantageous as they would actively be competing with players who were supporting the factions war efforts.

Wonder how hard it would be to implement those things.....just thinking out loud here.

caeliusstarbreaker

Soul_Demon wrote: »

I wonder what would happen if resources no longer gave d-ticks and you gained the increased AP buff for 30 min after participating in keep take (if you dropped siege) or outpost take. Of course you could make that buff even sweeter if you also added in a homekeep perk to that (say AP gained was times 2% for 30 as well if it was a homekeep)

AP farmers would be actively participating in the war effort just to maximize the gains- win for them, win for the faction as the map was played more. EMPs hanging around solo farming would find it tough to hold the top spot on the boards if the playing of the map were more advantageous as they would actively be competing with players who were supporting the factions war efforts.

Wonder how hard it would be to implement those things.....just thinking out loud here.

Lag... Lag would happen

asneakybanana

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

How's this for corrupt. Ever been bribed to leave your home campaign before?

lol yeah I've been offered 50k to leave BWB before.

Been offered 250k to pass someone on the leaderboards before because the faction didnt want him emp xD Poor German

As for on topic, I have been emp quite a few times throughout this games life and would have to say those requirements are a bit silly tbh. I kind of understand the CP cap requirement but really cant go along w/ the rank requirement. I have both been and seen extremely powerful emps w/ low alliance rank. Maybe before thieves guild I could understand it when you didnt get combat frenzy until AR 24 and combat frenzy 2 helped out a ton w/ the whole emp playstyle but now that you get combat frenzy 2 at like AR 12 or 13 or something someone w/ a low rank is going to be just as powerful as someone w/ an AR of 40+. I think the real fix that needs to be implemented is some way to stop people from just farming their friends for way more ap/hr than is normally possible and getting emp that way. If a person is actually playing the game legitimately and outfarming anyone else in the campaign then they deserve it but if theyre sitting there farming their friends to get first then thats just stupid.

Crown

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

lol yeah I've been offered 50k to leave BWB before.

@IxSTALKERxI I'm pretty sure that you were offered 250k around the time of Nigel II. We were laughing in RAGE chat at how I was offered double to drop Trueflame at the same time and someone was complaining that nobody ever offered them gold to drop campaign - I don't remember who that was, but it was very entertaining at the time..

asneakybanana wrote: »

Been offered 250k to pass someone on the leader boards before because the faction didn't want him emp

@asneakybanana That's a funny one.. "Please make lots of AP because we don't like this other guy!" I've never heard that before..

Qbiken

PrinceFabious wrote: »

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

How's this for corrupt. Ever been bribed to leave your home campaign before?

lol yeah I've been offered 50k to leave BWB before.

I was offered 200k to stop farming AP in Haderus one time. I took the money and ran my happy ass to the tempering alloy bank!

Or u scam them and go back to your farm XD

DocFrost72

Qbiken wrote: »

PrinceFabious wrote: »

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

How's this for corrupt. Ever been bribed to leave your home campaign before?

lol yeah I've been offered 50k to leave BWB before.

I was offered 200k to stop farming AP in Haderus one time. I took the money and ran my happy ass to the tempering alloy bank!

Or u scam them and go back to your farm XD

If you ever want to be an emperor, don't do that

Valencer

Isn't logging onto enemy alliance alts to literally just feed your friend AP a bannable thing? I was under the impression it was.

Sandman929 wrote: »

One way we might ever get to "real" Emps is with conditional AP resets. At the start of a campaign, all factions reset to owning their gate keeps only and all other keeps are neutral (no one can get in them until they capture them).
AP counted toward Emp (which would have to be disconnected from overall campaign AP) is reset at this point and start accumulating until one faction captures all Emp keeps, and then Emp AP is reset again.
Dethrones reset Emp AP as well for all players in all factions.
This would keep AP accumulated through various ways of farming that aren't connected to map objectives in check, or closer to it.

Problem with that is that now more than ever an emp is very reliant on his own alliance to actually hold the emp keeps against serious numbers of enemies. If you spend days farming AP to get emp and then your alliance loses it within 30 minutes (extreme example, but yeah) then that means days of effort down the drain. And farming enough AP for the nr. 1 spot can be very very tiring.

Sure, you might not sympathise with the person in question, but just wait until it happens to you.

Soul_Demon

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

I wonder what would happen if resources no longer gave d-ticks and you gained the increased AP buff for 30 min after participating in keep take (if you dropped siege) or outpost take. Of course you could make that buff even sweeter if you also added in a homekeep perk to that (say AP gained was times 2% for 30 as well if it was a homekeep)

AP farmers would be actively participating in the war effort just to maximize the gains- win for them, win for the faction as the map was played more. EMPs hanging around solo farming would find it tough to hold the top spot on the boards if the playing of the map were more advantageous as they would actively be competing with players who were supporting the factions war efforts.

Wonder how hard it would be to implement those things.....just thinking out loud here.

Lag... Lag would happen

Because there isn't lag now? I better repair my client again, I have it every single time I log in unless its on a dead camp....

Sandman929

Valencer wrote: »

Isn't logging onto enemy alliance alts to literally just feed your friend AP a bannable thing? I was under the impression it was.

Sandman929 wrote: »

One way we might ever get to "real" Emps is with conditional AP resets. At the start of a campaign, all factions reset to owning their gate keeps only and all other keeps are neutral (no one can get in them until they capture them).
AP counted toward Emp (which would have to be disconnected from overall campaign AP) is reset at this point and start accumulating until one faction captures all Emp keeps, and then Emp AP is reset again.
Dethrones reset Emp AP as well for all players in all factions.
This would keep AP accumulated through various ways of farming that aren't connected to map objectives in check, or closer to it.

Problem with that is that now more than ever an emp is very reliant on his own alliance to actually hold the emp keeps against serious numbers of enemies. If you spend days farming AP to get emp and then your alliance loses it within 30 minutes (extreme example, but yeah) then that means days of effort down the drain. And farming enough AP for the nr. 1 spot can be very very tiring.

Sure, you might not sympathise with the person in question, but just wait until it happens to you.

I don't sympathize, and it won't happen to me because I don't farm AP and couldn't care less about Emp. I think such a change would remove parts of the scenario you bring up though. There would be no need to spend days farming AP because a new kind of "Emp AP" would be reset at every Throning and Dethroning.
For example, at the start of a campaign, every faction is reset to their gate, and only possesses their 2 gate Keeps (or three, either way) all Emp AP is zeroed and start to accumulate until any faction takes all Emp keeps.
When any faction takes all Emp keeps, all Emp AP for all players is reset and begins accumulating again until the current Emp is dethroned. If the dethroning crowns a new Emp, that Emp is determined by AP gained only during the duration of the previous reign and all Emp AP is reset again. If Emp is dethroned and a new Emp isn't throned (No Emp) all Emp AP is reset at the point of dethroning and begins accumulating anew until a new Emp. And on and on it goes.

There's only incentive to farm AP in the process of an Emp change (your faction taking all Emp keeps) because Emp AP will be reset as soon as the current Emp is dethroned.

Farming AP for the prospect of better end of campaign rewards remains intact with Emp AP being separate from overall campaign AP.

I think such a system would reward focused groups pushing map objectives more than the current system.

Edit: And yes, I think friend farming is bannable...but ZOS doesn't police

Valencer

Yeah, when you put it like that I guess it could work.

Right now there's usually a race at the start of the campaign and then the nr. 1 spot is often held for the rest of the campaign by the first crowned emp of that campaign. Emp has an easier time farming even more AP, competition gives up etc.

Might be an interesting change to promote more of these races throughout the whole campaign. Some more variety, different emps. Still think it's too easy to get screwed over if your alliance is in a lazy mood, but the idea has merit.

Sandman929

Valencer wrote: »

Yeah, when you put it like that I guess it could work.

Right now there's usually a race at the start of the campaign and then the nr. 1 spot is often held for the rest of the campaign by the first crowned emp of that campaign. Emp has an easier time farming even more AP, competition gives up etc.

Might be an interesting change to promote more of these races throughout the whole campaign. Some more variety, different emps. Still think it's too easy to get screwed over if your alliance is in a lazy mood, but the idea has merit.

It's definitely not a fully fleshed out idea, but the current situation is exactly as you described. A few players farm a few million AP in the first few days, and that's the top 3 for the rest of the campaign. That's fine in my book for overall campaign AP and end of campaign rewards, and I don't think there's anything to be done about it.
Separating AP gained in the pursuit of Emp from overall AP could result in many different Emps from all factions during a campaign, or maybe it wouldn't. Most Emps are good players and would probably be able to get Emp without all the farming that currently happens.
I think this proposal would open up a few different strategies as well, with groups deciding whether it's more beneficial to dethrone only (resulting in No Emp) or dethrone and throne at the same time, since Emp AP will be reset regardless.

If a player is leading in Emp AP without contributing to the dethrone, dethroning only will reset Emp AP and the race starts again.

Minno

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Kas wrote: »

PrinceFabious wrote: »

Stanko, I agree with you 100% that these false emperors are a joke. But dont go on the forums bragging about LoM Success of crowning EMP at 2am. Heres a fight we had with them 4v20ish
<vid excluded>

wow, that was probably the most annoying pvp video ever. maybe it's just because I don't know any of those NA guys but with all those interruptions, i barely made 30% before i had to close the vid. impossible to watch

Us Americans love our reality TV drama lol.

I can't even stand the news in America, to much loud music and overly excited. :P

Neither can we lol. Except Anthony bordain's show on CNN.

Crown

Valencer wrote: »

Isn't logging onto enemy alliance alts to literally just feed your friend AP a bannable thing? I was under the impression it was.

Sandman929 wrote: »

And yes, I think friend farming is bannable...but ZOS doesn't police

@Valencer and @Sandman929 Unfortunately it is not. We reported quite a few people for it, and the responses that we got were always along the lines of, "people can play how they want, and if people want to spend their time in game repeatedly dying to one another then they are entitled to do so".

We all agree that it's not a fair way to get emp - though many people believe that tower farming Aleswell farm or Arrius lumber mill (where we made oodles of AP) and ignoring the rest of the map until we were so far ahead that nobody would be able to catch up wasn't fair to others either.

In the last days of when I was playing regularly when we were two or three NBs bombing groups in IC when they kept coming to fight the centre Molag Bal or the groups who were completing all the quests, and we made a LOT more AP (like 25k in one good bomb and quite a few such per hour) than the people fighting up top, the folks up top lost their cool often enough too saying what we were doing wasn't fair and we shouldn't be on the leader boards for it.

Even before that, there were ways such as by placing a Ring of Preservation (fighter's guild) and HoTs on the guards of a resource flag to make all the guards focus whatever player you're focusing (as opposed to their normal method of attacking whoever is closest or whoever attacks them). That would effectively 1-shot opponents who came in with less than 6 at a time due to all the guards hitting the same person at the same time one by one. Since the change to Ring of Preservation (now it reduces roll dodge cost instead increasing healing received) this no longer works. It was trivially easy to take a resource up north and just let the guards do your work for you. Is that against the rules? No. Is that a cheese way to make AP? Yes. Is it fair to others? Depends on your perspective. Tagging @IxSTALKERxI and @Manoekin for their comments on this one ;-)

There will always be people complaining about things and AP gains / Emperor will probably be one of the most common. It's on ZOS to change how AP and/or Emperor work if they believe that this is an issue, and most of us old-timers are very doubtful that they ever will.

Manoekin

no reason to change anything regarding this.

Crown

Manoekin wrote: »

no reason to change anything regarding this.

@Manoekin I meant your comment on the controlling guards technique! I remember some of the Ala folks complaining about an EP who used that.. The good old days when "not working as intended" meant you could have some fun with things for a month or three!

Satiar

Reminds of the old emp trading days, where guilds would set up max siege oil in a corner of the keep so that you couldn't put up defensive siege, allowing for quick emp swaps. Thus leading to the glorious fast siege hp degradation we have today!

Bakven

Unfortunately even if all the players decide on a better way to crown an emperor it's unlikely Zos is gonna change it anyway.