Penalty for dying : What about a CD on soulgems ?

The-Baconator

Joy_Division wrote: »

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

The current system is one of the worst I'm aware of.
Together with being able to place camps nearly everywhere, everyone is able to using an unlimited amount of soul gems, so it's close to impossible to clear an area if your own group is significantly smaller compared to the enemy one.
Rezzing in this game is way too fast and comes without any penalty.
Imagine you clear the top of a keep, and while you're on the way down they already start rezzing each other. They got enough people to do so. You cleared the flag just to see the group you recently killed standing on top. You go to the top and story repeats itself. As a small group you simply don't got the manpower to block them permanently from rezzing.

Don't see any reason why people are against a penalty or at least a limitation.

Something like:
- after you use a soul gem you can't use an another one for a minute, just like a cooldown
- this cooldown should also start for the person who got rezzed

This prevents that a single survivor is able to bring back his whole raid in the middle of a keep.

Yep I agree. It would be a change that actually benefits the outnumbered side for once. Here are examples of what a fight is like with and without a cooldown systems:

Sad story without a cooldown system.

Let's say i'm in an 8 man group with Mojican and we are alone defending a keep against 40 EP. We manage to kill 20 of the 40 EP, but in the process Mojican dies for some reason or another, but no need to worry, because there is no rez penalty we are able to rez him again. We then go to the other side of the keep and wipe the remaining 20 players. When we turn around we see the first 20 we killed are alive again, so we go and kill them again, we turn around and the other 20 are alive again and another 20 reinforcements have arrived from nikel. Now there are 3 different groups of 20 that keep rezzing... etc. Eventually the whole group gets overwhelmed as we are unable to kill faster then they can rez and don't have the man power to camp bodies and we all die.

Same story with a cooldown system.

Let's say i'm in an 8 man group with Mojican and we are a lone defending a keep against 40 EP.
Mojican dies for some reason or another and I am unable to rez him for a whole minute. What a tragedy! Despite this huge loss to our group, we still managed to kill 10 of the 30 EP, which will be unable to rez for a whole minute either. Not needing to camp bodies, we continue to push on and defeat another 10 EP on the other side of the keep. One minute has now passed and we go back and rez Mojican but the first initial 10 EP have rezed, bringing the total back to 20. With our added strength we are able to wipe the remaining 20 EP and the battle is won!


TL;DR: It's more beneficial to sacrifice a Mojican for a whole minute than have a large enemy force continually rez with no penalty. @manny254

I think the rezzing system actually helps outnumbered keep defenders more times than you think.

If the 8 of you are defending bleakers, the only way you can possibly get back into the fight is if you rez. I'm not exactly sure why these 40 EP only are managing to kill Mojican while the other 7 of you manage to kill all of them, but let's assume some of the EP there are halfway decent players and manage to kill 5 of you while you kill 30 of them. Now instead of you 7 vs. 0 EP (your scenario) it's more like there are 3 of you vs 10 EP. The only way you are keeping that keep is if you rez and you are going to have to rez multiple times. Those EP, or at least some of them, are going to get a camp up and come immediately back.

When defending outposts against hordes of enemies, sometimes fast rezes are the only opportunity for an isolated and outnumbered force to hold onto them because the attackers are in a much better position to get reinforcements without relying on rezzing. If I can only rez 1 person a minute, and there are 10 dead defenders around me in an already surrounded keep with a horde of angry attackers outside, then the battle is already lost.

There are a few problems with your scenario. I'm not going to say you'll never get rezzes off in a 10v3 or 3vX after you've whittled them down a bit, but the real problem for a small\medium group is while your fighting your 10v3 struggling to get your one clutch rez off the two guys that dipped out when you went up stairs are rezzing the 10-20 people on the steps--something that will take less than 10 seconds with each player who gets rezzed joining in. Now that the original 10 are dead and you MAYBE have 2 friendlies back up, you have to deal with the +20 that just got rezzed while the other 10 (of the 40 players not fighting you or getting rezzed originally) are being rezzed on the opposite side of the keep along with the other 10 you just finished off. In most cases this cycle is doomed to continue until you eventually can't keep up with the zombie rezzing and wipe or they literally get bored of wiping and rez out.

Rezzing inherently favors the side with more numbers because they have more people to do the rezzing and less people trying to stop them, which I don't really have much of a problem with. I think where most draw the line is when a group that outnumbers you 5:1 simply becomes unwippable because you can not feasibly keep them dead.

And regarding camps, yes the 10 have a better shot at getting one off\having one that hasn't been burned. But you know what, if 5 people in my group go down when we're only 8 deep and we can't recover with a camp\rezzes of our own, we deserve to wipe. I would just like the ability to actually win when we end up killing the 40 the first 2-3 times without loosing anyone. I have no problem with the first rez, that person should just have to spend their time looking at their recap, sending hate tells, or just rez out when they die for the 4\5th time.

Xsorus

Solariken wrote: »

It might be cool to give a resurrected player a "resurrection sickness" debuff for maybe 30 seconds, where ALL stats/regen and healing received are reduced by 50%. This could be added into the Battle Spirit package while in Cyrodiil.

Edit: killing a person with rez sickness should obviously be worth 0 AP.

DAOC had Rez Sickness, and so did Warhammer Online if I remember correctly.

Honestly the game needs that, as for an actual timer on Rez...I can also see as well..Mainly because in previous games you had classes that Rezzed thus it was easier to clear an area if you eliminated those Classes.

In this game everyone can rez so its a bit harder.

I'd start with Rez Sickness and then move to a Timer...But people might be resistant to it because they think riding a horse for 2 mins is a huge burden.

Glory

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

The current system is one of the worst I'm aware of.
Together with being able to place camps nearly everywhere, everyone is able to using an unlimited amount of soul gems, so it's close to impossible to clear an area if your own group is significantly smaller compared to the enemy one.
Rezzing in this game is way too fast and comes without any penalty.
Imagine you clear the top of a keep, and while you're on the way down they already start rezzing each other. They got enough people to do so. You cleared the flag just to see the group you recently killed standing on top. You go to the top and story repeats itself. As a small group you simply don't got the manpower to block them permanently from rezzing.

Don't see any reason why people are against a penalty or at least a limitation.

Something like:
- after you use a soul gem you can't use an another one for a minute, just like a cooldown
- this cooldown should also start for the person who got rezzed

This prevents that a single survivor is able to bring back his whole raid in the middle of a keep.

Yep I agree. It would be a change that actually benefits the outnumbered side for once. Here are examples of what a fight is like with and without a cooldown systems:

Sad story without a cooldown system.

Let's say i'm in an 8 man group with Mojican and we are alone defending a keep against 40 EP. We manage to kill 20 of the 40 EP, but in the process Mojican dies for some reason or another, but no need to worry, because there is no rez penalty we are able to rez him again. We then go to the other side of the keep and wipe the remaining 20 players. When we turn around we see the first 20 we killed are alive again, so we go and kill them again, we turn around and the other 20 are alive again and another 20 reinforcements have arrived from nikel. Now there are 3 different groups of 20 that keep rezzing... etc. Eventually the whole group gets overwhelmed as we are unable to kill faster then they can rez and don't have the man power to camp bodies and we all die.

Same story with a cooldown system.

Let's say i'm in an 8 man group with Mojican and we are a lone defending a keep against 40 EP.
Mojican dies for some reason or another and I am unable to rez him for a whole minute. What a tragedy! Despite this huge loss to our group, we still managed to kill 10 of the 30 EP, which will be unable to rez for a whole minute either. Not needing to camp bodies, we continue to push on and defeat another 10 EP on the other side of the keep. One minute has now passed and we go back and rez Mojican but the first initial 10 EP have rezed, bringing the total back to 20. With our added strength we are able to wipe the remaining 20 EP and the battle is won!


TL;DR: It's more beneficial to sacrifice a Mojican for a whole minute than have a large enemy force continually rez with no penalty. @manny254

The best part about this story is that Mojican died. Shame you rezzed him.

Dakrana_Thrazvoth

Leave it as it is

MLRPZ wrote: »

Hey !

Actually, there's absolutly no penalty for dying since rezing is quite fast and there's no cooldown on soulgems, what would be a good option in your opinion ?

Hello, my favorite gif just for you :



The penalty are somewhere else than cooldown on soulgems, and they're more constraining than your idea.

There is importants cooldown on forwards camps, if we can't ressurect in a camp, we need to play at horse simulator for several minutes for come back to continue the fight.
Or wait for a rezz a long time from another players (who rarely happens). It's quite boring in my opinion.
Also add to that, the difficulty to find any interesting fights except 50 pugs of each alliance fighting in the same area, pvp will become more boring because the density of pvp population has beesn decreased a lot since many months doens't help for dynamic and interesting pvp. And your idea is going in that way.

FriedEggSandwich

Leave it as it is

The penalty is a bruised ego and being out of the fight for however long. Rezzes are obvious and can be interruped indefinitely.

Edit: if other then remove mechanics that speed up rezzes.

outsideworld76

other option (please share)

They should first fix the lag and remove animation cancelling.

Etaniel

other option (please share)

Add a rez sickness that lasts 2-3 min and that reduces your stats by 30% when you get rezzed

Juhasow

Many people so many opinions
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/comment/3392947/#Comment_3392947

Kas

other option (please share)

2min rez sickness that makes you weaker, but most importantly, doesn't allow you to rez yet another player

kargen27

The whole point seems to be so eight people can wipe out forty people. Never mind that it would wreck PvE group content and make battles between near equal forces tedious and tiresome even more so than now.

The answer is already in place. When you drop ten from that group of forty do not give chase to the thirty. Make them come to you where their dead kinsmen lay and whomp em again. If they set up siege divide your group of eight drop enough to end the siege in a quick attack then get back to the dead. Mix tactics a bit. After hitting the survivors just feign going back to the original dead ten. Sneak back in (again divided) and whomp two or three more as they try to rez the siege line. Keep them guessing what bodies you are watching and it won't take long for them to get frustrated and do something that leads to their final doom. Eight killing forty shouldn't be a walk in the park.

Soulac

Add CD on rez (once dead, you have to stay dead at least 1 minute for example)

kargen27 wrote: »

The whole point seems to be so eight people can wipe out forty people. Never mind that it would wreck PvE group content and make battles between near equal forces tedious and tiresome even more so than now.

The answer is already in place. When you drop ten from that group of forty do not give chase to the thirty. Make them come to you where their dead kinsmen lay and whomp em again. If they set up siege divide your group of eight drop enough to end the siege in a quick attack then get back to the dead. Mix tactics a bit. After hitting the survivors just feign going back to the original dead ten. Sneak back in (again divided) and whomp two or three more as they try to rez the siege line. Keep them guessing what bodies you are watching and it won't take long for them to get frustrated and do something that leads to their final doom. Eight killing forty shouldn't be a walk in the park.

It won´t wreck PvE Group content, if this is a change for Cyrodiil only.
Also your "tactic" won´t work.