Na na na natch potes!

Minno

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Selling a worthless gold ring you get from a trial for 5,000 gold to a special vendor is a bad idea? I dont see how, good way to make gold without needing to go farm and if you do nothing but raid then you can supply yourself with what is needed. Whatever it is, it is a step in the right direction

In the short term, yes, but sooner or later - and probably quite soon - your "gain" would be caught up by inflation. A 15K reward that helps you finance 15K potions is fine but if in two weeks your potions cost 20K instead of 15K (which is bound to happen if there's more gold injected into the economy) then your problem is not solved at all.

I guess the question is:

Why would an outside source of gold impact how one makes potions? If the price of pots is dependant on availability of materials plus the need for said item, why would it matter?

I'd say the only way this would affect the price if somehow the raider community brought down the average supply for potions to the point where there are non available. I'm talking like columbine rarity or yellows crafting upfrade mats rare.

Pandorii

I wonder if we'll be seeing some armor set changes to fix some artifact sets and make some stamina/magicka sets more equal/fair.

One particular set I'm hoping to see changed is Ice Furnace. The 4 piece has weapon damage, but it needs frost damage to proc, and the proc is a little confusing.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Minno wrote: »

Why would an outside source of gold impact how one makes potions? If the price of pots is dependant on availability of materials plus the need for said item, why would it matter?

I'd say the only way this would affect the price if somehow the raider community brought down the average supply for potions to the point where there are non available. I'm talking like columbine rarity or yellows crafting upfrade mats rare.

That's not how it works.
Let's say you earn 10$ a day. Out of which you spend 1 on hamburger, 5 on housing and 4 on transportation. If all of a sudden you earn 20$ a day instead of 10 (and everybody in your area also gets double salary), and you have nothing else to spend it on (only hamburgers, housing and transportation), the first days you'll save 10 dollars a day. But what for ? Very soon you'll be ready to pay more for each of your three types of expenditures. And McDonald's, your landlord and your bus company will know that and raise prices. In the end, you'll earn 20$ a day and spend 2$ hamburger, 10$ housing and 8$ transportation. Nothing has changed. Just the prices and revenue doubled.
That's - extremely roughly - how inflation works.

MissBizz

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Why would an outside source of gold impact how one makes potions? If the price of pots is dependant on availability of materials plus the need for said item, why would it matter?

I'd say the only way this would affect the price if somehow the raider community brought down the average supply for potions to the point where there are non available. I'm talking like columbine rarity or yellows crafting upfrade mats rare.

That's not how it works.
Let's say you earn 10$ a day. Out of which you spend 1 on hamburger, 5 on housing and 4 on transportation. If all of a sudden you earn 20$ a day instead of 10 (and everybody in your area also gets double salary), and you have nothing else to spend it on (only hamburgers, housing and transportation), the first days you'll save 10 dollars a day. But what for ? Very soon you'll be ready to pay more for each of your three types of expenditures. And McDonald's, your landlord and your bus company will know that and raise prices. In the end, you'll earn 20$ a day and spend 2$ hamburger, 10$ housing and 8$ transportation. Nothing has changed. Just the prices and revenue doubled.
That's - extremely roughly - how inflation works.

Which for long term players isn't all THAT bad... since they got those raises so the expensive prices don't seem so bad.... but then the new kid comes along and can only make $5 a day and can't even afford a home

Nifty2g

@ZOS_GinaBruno I must have an ETA on these patch notes I am too excited

SantieClaws

Khajiit maybe gets the feeling they are enjoying the speculation a little too much yes

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

FENGRUSH

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

What's on page




?

• Fixed an issue where your character’s movement speed was 10% slower when your weapons were unsheathed.

Oh wait, @ZOS_RichLambert already spoiled that one.

@ZOS_GinaBruno Tease the trial community a little bit??????

We've heard your feedback regarding the inability to make money by running Veteran Trials, and added Undaunted Plunder to the Veteran mode of all Trials.

You can read more about this in a little bit.

Undaunted Plunder?!



Gimme dat booty! Were gonne be rich @Nifty2g

anitajoneb17_ESO

MissBizz wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Why would an outside source of gold impact how one makes potions? If the price of pots is dependant on availability of materials plus the need for said item, why would it matter?

I'd say the only way this would affect the price if somehow the raider community brought down the average supply for potions to the point where there are non available. I'm talking like columbine rarity or yellows crafting upfrade mats rare.

That's not how it works.
Let's say you earn 10$ a day. Out of which you spend 1 on hamburger, 5 on housing and 4 on transportation. If all of a sudden you earn 20$ a day instead of 10 (and everybody in your area also gets double salary), and you have nothing else to spend it on (only hamburgers, housing and transportation), the first days you'll save 10 dollars a day. But what for ? Very soon you'll be ready to pay more for each of your three types of expenditures. And McDonald's, your landlord and your bus company will know that and raise prices. In the end, you'll earn 20$ a day and spend 2$ hamburger, 10$ housing and 8$ transportation. Nothing has changed. Just the prices and revenue doubled.
That's - extremely roughly - how inflation works.

Which for long term players isn't all THAT bad... since they got those raises so the expensive prices don't seem so bad.... but then the new kid comes along and can only make $5 a day and can't even afford a home

True, but it's not really a matter of long term or short term. Anyone who partakes in the player-driven economy will have profits and expenditures at a sustainable rate, even at lvl one (given that you can farm and sell ingredients at any level). But those who are stuck with general mobs looting and quest rewards are a bit stuck. Inflation widens the gap between the "state-driven economy" (ZOS & NPCs here), and the free markets (players' trading here). Also returning players who believe to be rich because they had 1 million gold when they left will find out very soon that 1 million isn't worth much anymore in ESO.

DisgracefulMind

FENGRUSH wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

What's on page




?

• Fixed an issue where your character’s movement speed was 10% slower when your weapons were unsheathed.

Oh wait, @ZOS_RichLambert already spoiled that one.

@ZOS_GinaBruno Tease the trial community a little bit??????

We've heard your feedback regarding the inability to make money by running Veteran Trials, and added Undaunted Plunder to the Veteran mode of all Trials.

You can read more about this in a little bit.

Undaunted Plunder?!



Gimme dat booty! Were gonne be rich @Nifty2g

You're banned from raids tho.

Loljk

anitajoneb17_ESO

SantieClaws wrote: »

Khajiit maybe gets the feeling they are enjoying the speculation a little too much yes

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

But... but... but... just imagine you've been promised a ball of yarn... but can't have it yet... wouldn't you imagine that ball of yarn as big as the moon ???

OneKhajiitCrimeWave

Still no sneak peeks???

But....

Minno

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Why would an outside source of gold impact how one makes potions? If the price of pots is dependant on availability of materials plus the need for said item, why would it matter?

I'd say the only way this would affect the price if somehow the raider community brought down the average supply for potions to the point where there are non available. I'm talking like columbine rarity or yellows crafting upfrade mats rare.

That's not how it works.
Let's say you earn 10$ a day. Out of which you spend 1 on hamburger, 5 on housing and 4 on transportation. If all of a sudden you earn 20$ a day instead of 10 (and everybody in your area also gets double salary), and you have nothing else to spend it on (only hamburgers, housing and transportation), the first days you'll save 10 dollars a day. But what for ? Very soon you'll be ready to pay more for each of your three types of expenditures. And McDonald's, your landlord and your bus company will know that and raise prices. In the end, you'll earn 20$ a day and spend 2$ hamburger, 10$ housing and 8$ transportation. Nothing has changed. Just the prices and revenue doubled.
That's - extremely roughly - how inflation works.

Except in ESO, you miss out of the "forced economy" aspects real life puts on you. So you can essentially boil it down to "availability of Mats, availability of final product, and demand for product."

As a player, if my price check comes lower than people are selling, and there are potions readily available, I'm buying the lowest cost. So if the price jumps to 20k, but someone is selling for 15, I'm buying the 15 everytime. If they are all 20k, I'm farming them and selling for 15k to reduce the cost (and outsell you).

ESO is special in that, as long as you keep a steady supply, the game cannot force you to buy anything. So as long as the mats can be farmed easily and demand matches supply, the price shouldn't change regardless of who earns. The only thing that brings it down, is if a player can farm and underbid the system but once again only if the mats are readily available.

Only real world aspect in ESO is how lazy a player is or if they have enough time to farm everything.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Minno wrote: »

Except in ESO, you miss out of the "forced economy" aspects real life puts on you. So you can essentially boil it down to "availability of Mats, availability of final product, and demand for product."

As a player, if my price check comes lower than people are selling, and there are potions readily available, I'm buying the lowest cost. So if the price jumps to 20k, but someone is selling for 15, I'm buying the 15 everytime. If they are all 20k, I'm farming them and selling for 15k to reduce the cost (and outsell you).

ESO is special in that, as long as you keep a steady supply, the game cannot force you to buy anything. So as long as the mats can be farmed easily and demand matches supply, the price shouldn't change regardless of who earns. The only thing that brings it down, is if a player can farm and underbid the system but once again only if the mats are readily available.

Only real world aspect in ESO is how lazy a player is or if they have enough time to farm everything.

There is no difference between the ESO market and RL market (apart from the fact that ESO market are extremely simplified). In real life too there are people who live in complete autarcy - without any money : they don't sell and they don't buy. I agree there are very few of them - but they exist. Just like in ESO, it all depends on how lazy/willing you are to farm your stuff yourself. Some trial raiders like Nifty mentioned that they'd rather quit raiding altogether rather than pick their own ingredients for potions - simply because they don't like it, don't want it or have no time.
The key is your sentence "as long as you keep a steady supply". But prices have an impact on supply. Some people will go on farming and selling even at reduced prices, some will stop because they consider it's not worth it. Part of the recent rise in prices for Columbines is that there are many motifs to farm which provided a much higher income / hour. Thus less columbine => prices go to the roof.

Just like IRL. Except the process are far simpler and easier to identify in ESO than IRL.

Edit : I dunno how I sound, I'm not "lecturing you", just chatting along while frenzily waiting for Natch Potes

Minno

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Except in ESO, you miss out of the "forced economy" aspects real life puts on you. So you can essentially boil it down to "availability of Mats, availability of final product, and demand for product."

As a player, if my price check comes lower than people are selling, and there are potions readily available, I'm buying the lowest cost. So if the price jumps to 20k, but someone is selling for 15, I'm buying the 15 everytime. If they are all 20k, I'm farming them and selling for 15k to reduce the cost (and outsell you).

ESO is special in that, as long as you keep a steady supply, the game cannot force you to buy anything. So as long as the mats can be farmed easily and demand matches supply, the price shouldn't change regardless of who earns. The only thing that brings it down, is if a player can farm and underbid the system but once again only if the mats are readily available.

Only real world aspect in ESO is how lazy a player is or if they have enough time to farm everything.

There is no difference between the ESO market and RL market (apart from the fact that ESO market are extremely simplified). In real life too there are people who live in complete autarcy - without any money : they don't sell and they don't buy. I agree there are very few of them - but they exist. Just like in ESO, it all depends on how lazy/willing you are to farm your stuff yourself. Some trial raiders like Nifty mentioned that they'd rather quit raiding altogether rather than pick their own ingredients for potions - simply because they don't like it, don't want it or have no time.
The key is your sentence "as long as you keep a steady supply". But prices have an impact on supply. Some people will go on farming and selling even at reduced prices, some will stop because they consider it's not worth it. Part of the recent rise in prices for Columbines is that there are many motifs to farm which provided a much higher income / hour. Thus less columbine => prices go to the roof.

Just like IRL. Except the process are far simpler and easier to identify in ESO than IRL.

Edit : I dunno how I sound, I'm not "lecturing you", just chatting along while frenzily waiting for Natch Potes

Correct! And I don't think we wanted to be "lecturing", so I apologize if it sounded like I was too .

From what I noticed in this game, the best example of controlling the market was the launch days when contracting vampire:
1) no information on economy or services available to educate
2) vampire was very specific in getting it, and want easily available for the general public.
3) players controlled the market by killing all sources of vampires forcing players to pay money or lose out on vampire.

So to me the market plays simply:
1) can I easily get this product?
2) if no, can I easily get the require elements to recurve final product,
3) if no,can I live with or without this product?

For nifty, gaining 4000 at another source could mean buying the mats himself and making the potions he needs. For this update, if imagine more flowers will make it to market now that the underpopulated zones will have more players farming the nodes. I'd imagine the price for potions could go up or down based on how the raw materials are available.

This was my essential argument .

Mady

Minno

Mady wrote: »

Wheel-ers.

Elsonso

I am worried that natch potes scared @ZOS_GinaBruno and she ran off to lunch and never returned!

BdCHighVoltage

natch potes MIA

anitajoneb17_ESO

Minno wrote: »

From what I noticed in this game, the best example of controlling the market was the launch days when contracting vampire:
1) no information on economy or services available to educate
2) vampire was very specific in getting it, and want easily available for the general public.
3) players controlled the market by killing all sources of vampires forcing players to pay money or lose out on vampire.

You're on console ? Yeah that's pretty bad. Heard the same happened for werevolves.
But that's bot "free market". That pure crime.
The worst in it is, equivalent things happen everyday in RL markets, for nearly everything.

Minno wrote: »

For nifty, gaining 4000 at another source could mean buying the mats himself and making the potions he needs. For this update, if imagine more flowers will make it to market now that the underpopulated zones will have more players farming the nodes. I'd imagine the price for potions could go up or down based on how the raw materials are available.

I expect alchemy ingredients to rise significantly in price - even more than now.
Yes, there will probably be a little bit more supply, for the reason you mentioned, but there will be a HUGE demands. With all the new dungeons, the new achievements, and the new stuff to farm and test, everyone will be sipping potions 24/7. And many people swim in gold anyway, so they'll be ready to pay.
I have about 1K columbine in my crafting bag. I won't sell them under 800ea. If prices don't go that high, I'll keep them for my personal usage - which will be huge, too.

Hutch679

Hmm. Getting a little late for natch potes. Must be a case of the Mondays at ZoS!

MissBizz

....still no potes?

BdCHighVoltage

drop it like it's hot

https://media.giphy.com/media/TeBpzQZRaBIC4/giphy.gif

Savos_Saren

Hutch679 wrote: »

Hmm. Getting a little late for natch potes. Must be a case of the Mondays at ZoS!

https://youtu.be/guv5LUT1AFw

MissBizz

BdCHighVoltage wrote: »

drop it like it's hot

https://media.giphy.com/media/TeBpzQZRaBIC4/giphy.gif

Let me help you @BdCHighVoltage

BdCHighVoltage

thanks, i didn't put in that way because i thought it was too large

MyNameIsElias

Minno

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

From what I noticed in this game, the best example of controlling the market was the launch days when contracting vampire:
1) no information on economy or services available to educate
2) vampire was very specific in getting it, and want easily available for the general public.
3) players controlled the market by killing all sources of vampires forcing players to pay money or lose out on vampire.

You're on console ? Yeah that's pretty bad. Heard the same happened for werevolves.
But that's bot "free market". That pure crime.
The worst in it is, equivalent things happen everyday in RL markets, for nearly everything.

Minno wrote: »

For nifty, gaining 4000 at another source could mean buying the mats himself and making the potions he needs. For this update, if imagine more flowers will make it to market now that the underpopulated zones will have more players farming the nodes. I'd imagine the price for potions could go up or down based on how the raw materials are available.

I expect alchemy ingredients to rise significantly in price - even more than now.
Yes, there will probably be a little bit more supply, for the reason you mentioned, but there will be a HUGE demands. With all the new dungeons, the new achievements, and the new stuff to farm and test, everyone will be sipping potions 24/7. And many people swim in gold anyway, so they'll be ready to pay.
I have about 1K columbine in my crafting bag. I won't sell them under 800ea. If prices don't go that high, I'll keep them for my personal usage - which will be huge, too.

No I'm on PC. Back when this game launched in 2014, there wasn't much info available and master merchant only came out in 2015-16. I remember bites going for 30-50k each lol. Absurd capitalism; like paying 100 bucks for a damn furby toy lol.

Demand will always be high, but I remember zos changing the frequency of node drops to match other zones. So id imagine more flowers mats = more columbine. More columbine means less 400$ individual price. This means cheaper pots .

AmberLaTerra

Minno wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Except in ESO, you miss out of the "forced economy" aspects real life puts on you. So you can essentially boil it down to "availability of Mats, availability of final product, and demand for product."

As a player, if my price check comes lower than people are selling, and there are potions readily available, I'm buying the lowest cost. So if the price jumps to 20k, but someone is selling for 15, I'm buying the 15 everytime. If they are all 20k, I'm farming them and selling for 15k to reduce the cost (and outsell you).

ESO is special in that, as long as you keep a steady supply, the game cannot force you to buy anything. So as long as the mats can be farmed easily and demand matches supply, the price shouldn't change regardless of who earns. The only thing that brings it down, is if a player can farm and underbid the system but once again only if the mats are readily available.

Only real world aspect in ESO is how lazy a player is or if they have enough time to farm everything.

There is no difference between the ESO market and RL market (apart from the fact that ESO market are extremely simplified). In real life too there are people who live in complete autarcy - without any money : they don't sell and they don't buy. I agree there are very few of them - but they exist. Just like in ESO, it all depends on how lazy/willing you are to farm your stuff yourself. Some trial raiders like Nifty mentioned that they'd rather quit raiding altogether rather than pick their own ingredients for potions - simply because they don't like it, don't want it or have no time.
The key is your sentence "as long as you keep a steady supply". But prices have an impact on supply. Some people will go on farming and selling even at reduced prices, some will stop because they consider it's not worth it. Part of the recent rise in prices for Columbines is that there are many motifs to farm which provided a much higher income / hour. Thus less columbine => prices go to the roof.

Just like IRL. Except the process are far simpler and easier to identify in ESO than IRL.

Edit : I dunno how I sound, I'm not "lecturing you", just chatting along while frenzily waiting for Natch Potes

Correct! And I don't think we wanted to be "lecturing", so I apologize if it sounded like I was too .

From what I noticed in this game, the best example of controlling the market was the launch days when contracting vampire:
1) no information on economy or services available to educate
2) vampire was very specific in getting it, and want easily available for the general public.
3) players controlled the market by killing all sources of vampires forcing players to pay money or lose out on vampire.

So to me the market plays simply:
1) can I easily get this product?
2) if no, can I easily get the require elements to recurve final product,
3) if no,can I live with or without this product?

For nifty, gaining 4000 at another source could mean buying the mats himself and making the potions he needs. For this update, if imagine more flowers will make it to market now that the underpopulated zones will have more players farming the nodes. I'd imagine the price for potions could go up or down based on how the raw materials are available.

This was my essential argument .

Actually the number of flowers entering the game will decrease as those underpopulated zone people will be thrown in with the people from that alliance who populate that zone. Let's take for example Stormhaven now. If you are AD or EP it great for farming because it is unpopulated, but for DC it is crowded. Now Tamriel one comes along and as ah AD or EP Player it is crowded for you because you are there with both the other factions all competing for the same flowers. This will be the case in every zone.

It is those underpopulated zones that most benefited farmers in lack of competition for the resource nodes, something that will no longer exist and mean less nodes per hour for all farmers due to having to race other farmers to those nodes.

Minno

Yea true. But I believe Zos changed the frequency of those nodes for pts. So ideally it can go either way.

The was I see it, less players farmed those areas, and the ones that did kept the mats or were crafters selling the 15k stacks of pots.

In these areas, more competition should help bring the price down. You can only have so many 20k stacks before someone decides to undersell at 19k starting the market implosion.

Abeille

Dominoid wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Dominoid wrote: »

Paulington wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Something tells me this undaunted plunder is a person you can sell your gold rings to for more gold or something like that...

It just cannot be that, it cannot be anything that you just vendor for gold or such a thing because that is just adding hundreds of millions of gold to the economy out of nowhere, hello inflation.

It needs to be something that we can swap for an item with another player, for example you swap 1 Undaunted Plunder for 1 Tempering Alloy (or whatever) at the vendor which you can then sell to another player, but even that causes issues.

It's a really fine thing, it'd be nice if you could use it to make an item BoE or something but that can't happen either really.

Can't wait to find out! .

It's gotta be simpler than what you propose. That would require way too much work and speccing to be down between PTS incremental patches based upon feedback. It will be something simple just like a high value drop to be vendored or simply a large gold amount.

Tradable container that has a random set piece, maybe? If you open, the piece is bound to you (and you can trade within your group if in the dungeon). Otherwise, you can sell? Just a guess.

That's a good "simple" idea. That "just" a new item and a level list.

Honestly it is not something that I would particularly want to see added, but it is something that I think ZOS would add. Didn't they do the same with some IC polymorph, or am I misremembering?