Hardest role in group content

Asardes

In your opinion, which is the hardest role to fill in group content, including both 4 man dungeons and arenas and 12 man trials, in terms of resource management, group utility, individual skill rotation for optimum effect and most importantly knowing the mechanics and acting accordingly?

As a personal note this is my first multiplayer game and I've run as tank on my main since I started doing dungeons, so I had to learn all from scratch. Only recently, when I had enough skill points did I begin to run as DD. I've never run as healer until now since my Templar alt is not mature enough to bring her in dungeons yet.

Jaybe_Mawfaka

group/raid leader is the hardest one

Asardes

Healer

Well, the raid leader can have any role in the party. It's the most experienced player. And it's probably pretty frequent in guilds that the raid leader remains the same, even if all members rotate trough different characters for the weekly run of the same trial. So he can be the tank for 3 runs, the healer for another 4 and DD for the 8th while the others do the same.

Liofa

Healer

I am a tank and can easily say playing healer is hardest . Tank is only considered hard because of the responsibility you are carrying , not the difficulity . Just take a look at the healer and try to understand their job . Elemental drain , Siphon Spirit , Orbs , heavy attack for Aether , healing stupid dds who stand in red , throwing shards , repentance , trying to survive while healing others , blocking strong attacks with 9k stamina pool , sustaining your magicka while doing all this crap and not giving a single damn about whiny dds . Hell , if I was doing half of these , I would be mad AF .

But still , remember . Always blame the healer

Asardes

Healer

I've been asking the question because I'm running PuGs almost exclusively. For non-DLC dungeon I just use the tool, for the DLC ones the guild and most often just the zone chat to recruit. I'm seeing most groups in chat search either tank or healer. In the tool the queuing time for tank is much shorter than for DD. I usually tick both boxes and about 90% of the time I get to be the tank; with most PuGs I end up mixing the role of DD and Tank because their DPS is really weak and even a normal dungeon would take more than 15 minutes. Most of my friends ask me to tank dungeons; only once did they ask me to come as DD for VICP & WVGT and I've completed both in ~45 minutes effective game play (1 hour with break for pledge turn in and inventory clear). I've run as pure DD in all dungeons except SotH ones for daily gold pledge and they felt very easy. I was surprised that I rarely die because I have very quick reflexes for avoiding attacks and getting out of the red. As tank I was seeing a lot of deaths and I figured the skill rotation is too hard and avoiding danger at the same time was impossible; it was hardly the case. In fact my DD rotation has less skills than my tank one and I still get decent DPS - not measured it with add-ons, but from the combat chat messages it seems to be ~25K/s on most targets with basic 2H+Bow rotation.

Brrrofski

Tank

It's close between tank and healer.

Depends on the content I guess. I feel there's more to do as healer but the cost of mistake is less. If you lost aggro or drop block on vet trials, it's a wipe 90% of the time.

I find DSA harder on the tank. Especially the last boss. If you can't self sustain you can't really do that boss. A tank who needs healed every 3 seconds and can't tank without shards means you won't be able to do it.

timidobserver

Tank

Depends on which group content. Either tank or healer depending on what you are doing.

Asardes

Healer

I've only run VDSA once before they upgraded it to CP160 so I can't really say much about it, except it was a lot more demanding on the magicka pool, especially the chains, and had to switch to Atronach mundus for it. 3/4 group members were inexperienced but I didn't find the mechanics particularly hard. On that particular boss I noticed that there were a lot of wipes even with the boss and most of his adds (the healing one need to be kited and destroyed far from him) aggroed when he did his AoE attack. I was the last one standing even with full aggro. I did notice the same situation in dungeons were DDs were weak and not environment conscious. One mistake that I pointed to them, although was my 1st run, is that they didn't prioritize the healing adds and even told me to aggro them too, although it was evident that bringing them to the boss would be a bad thing because the AoE heal (similar mechanic in VWGT where trash actually needs to be pulled from healer to kill it faster).

I'm very observant about the mechanic of a particular dungeon and like to get everything right. DDs not clearing adds before boss though it's obvious they should and they are clearly told to, is one of the most frustrating experiences. This is painfully evident in the new SotH dungeons where some bosses become invulnerable and the "stack and burn burn" mentality is extremely detrimental. For example Xal-Nur is extremely hard to tank even when he's alone because of the fear+enrage mechanic that consumes a lot of stamina, first for break free then for interrupt and re-taunt, and even more so when they leave the trolls be and 3-4 of them are beating at you at the same time. And the tree minder fight is even more frustrating because people also tend to burn trough stages before thoroughly clearing them - for example burn trough boss so fast that they have a large number of adds and the ghost bosses at the same time. Or even more frustrating, ignoring totem, statue and adds during execute phase, and wiping repeatedly to them with less than 5% left on boss. I'm happy with the new mechanics, but less happy about how people treat them. Most imagine they can burn through them, like they do in the other dungeons.

Asmael

Healer

Which is, ironically enough, the one role I've done the least.

Generally speaking, playing a role and doing the basic mandatory duty is easy, mastering each role is the real thing.

Any tank can taunt a boss and stay alive. Not every tank can taunt a boss, stack and CC the adds, keep the whole group alive, debuff the mobs, buff the group, rezz while taking a beating and preventing a wipe and still have time to throw an orb or two at his mates and generate as much ultimate as possible.

Any DD can pull decent numbers on a static boss for 1 minute. Not every DD is capable of having decent DPS on a mechanic heavy fight with a lot of moving targets and incoming CCs, while still being aware of his/her environment, be ready to rezz allies or kite the boss if the tank dies for some reason, prioritize the right targets and interrupt when necessary.

Any healer can keep a group alive. Not every healer can pull decent DPS while outputting exactly the right amount of healing needed, feed orbs to the magicka DDs, feed shards / rep / healing springs with master resto to the stamina ones, keep elemental drain & siphon up, be aware of his own and others positioning and maintain his buffs on allies. Add IA debuff duty to that and you can quickly be overwhelmed. They are the ones who need to pay the most attention to the group, thus they get my vote.

Malfalas

Healer

Healers. I don't act as healer very often, but whenever I do, feel terrible and guilty whenever I see a fellow group member die. Healers are responsible for keeping the entire group alive, so in a way they'll always be partially responsible whenever a group wipes. They'll either love you or hate you as a healer!

Asardes

Healer

Asmael wrote: »

Any tank can taunt a boss and stay alive. Not every tank can taunt a boss, stack and CC the adds, keep the whole group alive, debuff the mobs, buff the group, rezz while taking a beating and preventing a wipe and still have time to throw an orb or two at his mates and generate as much ultimate as possible.

[...]

Any healer can keep a group alive. Not every healer can pull decent DPS while outputting exactly the right amount of healing needed, feed orbs to the magicka DDs, feed shards / rep / healing springs with master resto to the stamina ones, keep elemental drain & siphon up, be aware of his own and others positioning and maintain his buffs on allies. Add IA debuff duty to that and you can quickly be overwhelmed. They are the ones who need to pay the most attention to the group, thus they get my vote.

If they don't completely fulfill their support roles then they are not fulfilling them at all. Some are even worse than that, especially healers. They can't even heal properly, but they still try to DPS, with predictable results. Most healers I've encountered in grouping tool are, surprisingly, sorcerers. Roughly 50% sorcerers, 30% templars, 15% NB and 5% DK. And many of those templars don't even repent or throw shards. That's why I've built my tank primarily around resource regeneration and only secondarily damage mitigation. A tank fails his job badly if he doesn't pull and keep the trash in place for optimum DPS - any good rotation contains static AoE DoT shills like elemental blockade and endless hail - and doesn't debuff them and use group utility ultimate like war horn or magma shell/barrier. I've seen many tanks that just taunt and block and then ask for shards - no CC, no debuff, and almost no ultimate use. If you play like that is certainly easy for you, but harder for the group. In harder content it certainly won't cut it.

Totalitarian

Tank

Healer and Tank are both more difficult that DPS in group content.

I would, however, say that the Tank has it worse.

The healer is in charge of keeping up resources, healing, and providing support in trials, but in the end, there's not much need for special mechanics.

Tanks, however, have to deal with some pretty horrible things. Tanking the axes in AA, pulling massive groups of mobs from across the arena in DSA, or having to stay alive completely solo on final boss in vDSA. Those are things that allow for minimal error, because losing taunt can mean a wipe.

Generally, if a healer accidentally lets someone die, that's just a death or two, not a near wipe.

Asardes

Healer

Definitely tanks need a self heal available for most boss fights. In fact they should be able to fully sustain on all 4 resources, regenerate magicka, stamina, self heal and generate ultimate quickly for group utility, and in the case of DK, the other 3 resource recovery as well. On my build I have so much regeneration that with adequate support I can even dump some of the stamina as group heal. I've only run normal trials, which I've found pretty easy, but in tight groups ingenous shields and vigor can make a difference.

daroule1982

Tank

PVE-wise: Tanks, IMO, don't get enough credit. I am only a champs 150ish at the moment playing heals, mind you, fyi.

Tanks that know what they are doing do a lot of dang work. Taunting after taunting, and knowing timers. I played an off tank for 40 man raid back in WarCraft BC. It's very similar. Next to that, heals, and then next to that the DpS that has to do the running around to cc and such.

PVP-Heals, and cc dps.

EsoRecon

Damage Dealer

we dps are so oppressed. help us

vamp_emily

Damage Dealer

I am thinking Damage Dealers is the hardest ( just my opinion ).

I've never DD a dungeon, but getting in and killing those mobs fast with high DPS seems like a task that many fail at.

Artis

Tank

In this game it's close between tanks and DPS.

Healers don't even target much, "smart heals" do everything for them. They do need to have good sets though to buff (like spell power cure) but again - it procs so doesn't require much.

Tanks depending on content need to manage resources better which includes knowing when to block and when not to block, possibly weaving in some attacks when they can, managing active defensive buffs (vRom set makes them passive though). Don't forget about positioning and always moving to see the battlefield and have control over it to know when you need to charge to a mob to save another group member. Oh, and keeping agro on as many mobs as possible while managing resources is not that easy too.

DPS are not easy too. Sure, the loss of 1 dps is not that big of a deal as the loss of tank/healer because that can be recovered in most cases. However DPS has a huge impact. They need to stay alive and not mess up their rotation and attack weaving. High DPS = possibly skipping some phases, killing faster which makes tank's and healer's jobs easier.

One more thing to mention is the skill cap. Tanks and healers seem to have the lowest "ceiling" in their roles = you can be tanky enough pretty soon. Sure, there are great and not so great tanks, but at some point you're tanky enough and need to buff dps(become kinda hybrid). Meanwhile, there's a huge range of DPS. Some people have a really high DPS, while others have it barely passable.

Wolfchild07

An option for all 3 would have been nice. If tank loses aggro, if healer doesn't keep you alive, or if dps doesn't burn fast enough, it can end badly. Also, all roles need to bring some sort of cc if they can, it helps immensely. Self-heals help also.

ClockworkArc

Damage Dealer

As a person whose played all 3 roles, but mostly tanks. I think DPS is the hardest or most essential.

I say this because as a tank, if you know the fights. You can play most of the game naked (with a few very notavle exceptions such as vDSA's final boss). That being said, the tank is the only character in the group capable of soloing a boss and recovering a wipe properly.
As a healer, its pretty easy to keep people alive as long as you have resources. You just need to throw down the healing BEFORE its needed but any gear will get you through (and with good gear ive seen healers pull 30k dps cobsistently while healing).
With DPS you need the best gear (the biggest grind), the fastest reflexes, the greatest knowledge of what is happening, and the ability to rez people.

The tank and the healer focus on keeping you alive, but situations inevitably get a little too hectic or a boss has a random attack and good dps can mitigate that and keep on dealing massive damage.

If you're new to the game or undergeared. Do everyone a favour and heal or tank.

subtlezeroub17_ESO

Damage Dealer

Actually, I would usually say healer in most mmo's but in this case I must say it is the dd. Especially if you play a squishy. DD in this game have to be constantly moving and do not have the heals or tank to survive mistakes. Furthurmore, most dds (at least on consoles) have to remember multiple DoT times and buff timers all while paying attention to mechanics in order to maintain high dps. Maybe if we got buff and dot timers then the difficulty would go down by several notches but until then, for console players, DD are hardest to play.

Izaki

Healer

Well what this poll doesn't address is the fact that people seem to think that DD is easy. Obviously its not as hard as healer and tank, but nonetheless you have just as much responsibility. If you don't know your rotation, if you don't know the mechanics, if you can't stay alive, if you're not aware of your surroundings, you are a bad DPS. Hell, I've seen some people claim they had monster DPS and when I ran with them they'd be sitting there spamming Dizzy Swing, all the while claiming that they had 7k Weapon damage. Every role has it's difficulties and while healer is probably the hardest and the tank has the most responsibility, the damage dealers must know what they are doing, otherwise things can turn nasty real quick.

Autolycus

Once a rotation is determined and practiced, being the DD becomes very easy in most content. But this is true for any role honestly, in that once you know your role, the challenge becomes more about hitting your marks at the right time, and paying attention to mechanics. From this perspective, one might conclude that challenge is equal across all roles.

As a raid leader, my opinion is that it's most difficult to be a dps and call all the shots simultaneously. As a healer I have a significantly easier time telling everyone what to do and when, because I'm viewing the encounter(s) from a broader approach, and seeing everyone in my party and mechanics usually from "behind the lines" where I can see all/most of the field of play. As a tank (which is my primary role), it varies from fight to fight, where in some cases I can't even see around the boss, other cases it is easy to see everything that is going on. In these situations, knowing the fights (and when each mechanic occurs) in advance alleviates some of the challenge and stress, and I'm experienced enough in each of the trials that calling the shots as a tank is somewhat second-nature to me now. As a dps, there is often very little room for error in both rotation and mechanics, and keeping track of everything while simultaneously calling the shots is a pretty heavy load. I'd note that in any case, being a raid leader is incredibly rewarding, regardless of role. Having your group progress further on each run is a reward in and of itself.

wayfarerx

Healer

I voted healer only because they tend to get the most hate thrown at them in PUGs. All the roles have tough jobs to do and any one of them failing can turn an easy fight into a frustrating experience.

Foxic

Damage Dealer

While in general I think it's harder to heal. Being a GOOD dps is probably the hardest thing to do. Not many people in the game can pull the numbers you see in YouTube videos even with appropriate buffs

ku5h

Damage Dealer

Most complex rotations and least room for error.

Reverb

Damage Dealer

Based on the number of pugs I've run, I would say DD. The vast majority of random healers and tanks I've run with fall between competent and good (not all of course, but most).

But the majority of random dps' are utter crap. That's clearly the role that most people struggle to nail down.

subtlezeroub17_ESO

Damage Dealer

Imo, the difference between a good dps and a great dps is one that can take care of himself and not be 100% reliant on the healer. That is why I cringe when people say "oh you don't need hardened ward on your bar, let the healer save you". I think thats bs.

Reverb

Damage Dealer

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

Imo, the difference between a good dps and a great dps is one that can take care of himself and not be 100% reliant on the healer. That is why I cringe when people say "oh you don't need hardened ward on your bar, let the healer save you". I think thats bs.

Yes and no. As a healer I'll tell you, as long as you have good positioning and aren't standing directly in high damage areas, you don't need hardened ward for most group content.

subtlezeroub17_ESO

Damage Dealer

Reverb wrote: »

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

Imo, the difference between a good dps and a great dps is one that can take care of himself and not be 100% reliant on the healer. That is why I cringe when people say "oh you don't need hardened ward on your bar, let the healer save you". I think thats bs.

Yes and no. As a healer I'll tell you, as long as you have good positioning and aren't standing directly in high damage areas, you don't need hardened ward for most group content.

I prefer to take care of myself in group content save for the most dire of situations like unavoidable damage or the occasional mistake or lack of stamina to break out of a cc.

Asardes

Healer

As sorcerer, if your critical chance is high enough, you can receive healing constantly from power/critical surge. You keep it up all the time because it's your damage buff. Same with magicka nightblade vit havtious syphoning skills which are part of the normal rotation. Those are two builds who can self heal constantly but they are the exception. Most DD are squishy and need to be kept alive and supplied with resources from shards & orbs.

Armitas

Damage Dealer

I found dungeon healing to be pretty easy after all the dungeon nerfs. Last time I did vCoA I was the group tank and the group healer. I haven't healed trials though. For some classes DPS rotations are ridiculous so I had to vote for that. I tank and it's pretty relaxed and non intensive. I can use trash pots and I don't have to stare at an array of dot timers and reapply ground dots every time a boss gets frisky.