Twin Blade and Blunt, dual sword or sword + axe?

Browiseth

I don't particularly care for more crit or penetration, so I'm sort of stuck in a bit of a conundrum here. For reference, I'm a stam sorc running the usual stam sorc dual wield/bow shtick, and I'm just not sure which combo is better.

When the axe bleed DoT actually does proc, hot damn is it a nice DoT. But having the guaranteed 2.5% more damage at all times is wonderful.

Opinions?

GreenSoup2HoT

I personally think 2 axes is a great combo for stamsorc's. You guys have the Implosion passive, so any physical damage you deal will have a chance to execute someone at 25% health or lower. So the more physical DoT's you have on your opponent the better right?

Style points matter as well!

code65536

Magicka: 2x swords

Stamina using Flurry (stamdk, stamsorc): 1x axe, 1x dagger

Stamina using class spammable (stamplar): 2x dagger

(Stamblades can use either Flurry or Surprise Attack, depending on the situation and build.)

Always use swords if you're magicka. Never use swords if you're stamina. Never use 2x axes.

Bobby_V_Rockit

I agree, dual swords ftw Stam Sorc!

Kyye

I think swords are all around best. You get immediate weapon damage and increased heals. But the 1 axe 1 sword makes sense

code65536

Unless you're at 100% crit, there's no such thing as enough crit. (This is for PvE; in PvP, impen on your opponents changes this equation. But in PvP, you'll probably be using a 2H anyway, as DW is used mostly in PvE.)

Each dagger adds 5% crit chance. Each sword adds 2.5% damage. That means you need a CHD (critical hit damage) rating of 0.5 for daggers to match swords in overall output. It also happens that 0.5 is the base CHD that you start with. I.e., everyone starts with a minimum of 0.5 CHD, which is the point where daggers = swords. Anywhere above 0.5 CHD, daggers will win. Champion Points in Precise Strikes increases your CHD. Being a Nightblade or Templar increases your CHD by 0.1 via class passives. Using the Trap Beast skill in your rotation increases it by 0.12. Using the Shadow Mundus increases it by 0.18. Add all of that up, and a stamblade or stamplar using Trap Beast, wearing TBS, with enough CP assigned for 10% critical damage, will have a CHD of 1.0, at which point the bonus from daggers will be twice as effective as the bonus from swords. Take away the class passive since you're a stamsorc, then the dagger bonus in a typical endgame setup would still be about 80% better. And then on top of all that, your CHD increases by an additional 30% each time someone blows an Aggressive War Horn.

In the absolute worst case, where you are running with zero crit damage bonuses (very unrealistic), daggers will still equal the overall damage output of swords.

The only reason magicka uses dual swords is because daggers don't affect spell crit, maces don't affect spell penetration, and you can't proc the axe bleed unless you use a DW ability or weapon attack, leaving swords as the only option for magicka--but they're the only ones who should be using it.

Shader_Shibes

On my Stam chars I go 2x daggers for all but trials, then I use dagger/axe. Everything except trial bosses melt to fast imo to make the axe bleed proc worth it.

serenity_painted

code65536 wrote: »

Never use 2x axes.

Why not? How much better is using a dagger instead? Is it just because the constant boost from the dagger outwheighs the rng proc or is there something else?

code65536

Shader_Shibes wrote: »

On my Stam chars I go 2x daggers for all but trials, then I use dagger/axe. Everything except trial bosses melt to fast imo to make the axe bleed proc worth it.

Correct. I forgot to mention, for short bursty fights, 2x daggers is better. Dagger/axe is for sustained damage. But it's a hassle (and expense) to build for both cases, so I personally just build for the harder content--yes, stuff like axe/dagger and TBS aren't quite optimal for easy content--but, well, it's easy content, so it doesn't really matter.

serenity_painted wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Never use 2x axes.

Why not? How much better is using a dagger instead? Is it just because the constant boost from the dagger outwheighs the rng proc or is there something else?

There is a chance to proc the axe bleed on each tick of Flurry. So if you're using Flurry as your main spammable, you have a pretty high chance of procing the bleed with just one axe. Since there is an internal cooldown on the bleed procs, any further increases in the proc chance is mostly wasted.

Also, you should not be using any axes if you're not using Flurry; the bleed only procs from DW abilities, so if your spammable is Surprise Attack or Biting Jabs, your spammable has no chance of procing the bleed, and you're much better of just using dual daggers.

GreenSoup2HoT

serenity_painted wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Never use 2x axes.

Why not? How much better is using a dagger instead? Is it just because the constant boost from the dagger outwheighs the rng proc or is there something else?

In pve its still easy to proc the DoT on one axe and benefit more from the critical chance with one dagger. No point arguing with PvE players because they have already tested this with DPS meters and such. It just so happens this is the best combo for PvE dps.

In PvP its a different story. Since Burst is more the meta, having a higher proc chance for crit damage with 2 daggers or 2 axes for the bleed is very good.