Viper's Sting - Another Broken Exploiting Set (Worse then Storm Knight)

WillhelmBlack

Procs from siege too!

I'm just making that up but I wouldn't be surprised if it did, velidreths does!

MoeCoastie

Lol...debunked!!

Sallington

The whole "proc x dmg on hit" set bonuses need to die and never come back.

I had my first experience literally getting one-shot by a Viper Sting + Widowmaker + Velidreth proc yesterday. Equipping certain gear shouldn't be an "I win" button, and in the already bursty meta these sets just exacerbate the situation.

Qbiken

KisoValley wrote: »

Waiting on ZOS to ban everyone exploiting this, including those who do it by accident (which is the majority from what I've experienced).

It´s not an exploit.....just a set that might be to strong....

Beardimus

You cant assume everyone knows, I didn't know and have been looking for the set for my Archer Alt, had I of got it I would have been hitting away unknowingly.

Sure people exploit, but the constant call for lynch mobbing is a little uncalled for i think.

Plus given the Time to Fix such things, opening a support case has surely got to be better than a forum post if you want less people to do it no?

Moltyr

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Hey guys just recorded a short video to debunk any theories here.

Results:

• Bow Light - Does not Proc
• Bow Heavy - Does not Proc (not in video sorry)
• Scatter Shot - Does not Proc
• Shrouded Daggers - Does Proc (theres 3 numbers, 1 for skill, 1 for enchant, 1 for Viper)
• Steel Tornado - Does Proc (3 numbers as well same as above ^)
• If you want me to test any other skill just ask and ill be happy to provide another video
  

The only ranged ability from my tests that proc this set is Hidden Blade from the Duel Wield Skill-line. Not sure if this classes as a melee ability because your using a melee weapon. Probably should not be proc'ing this set but who knows.

In general, the proc's are probably coming from gap closer's after someone uses heavy bow/poison inj.

Just to note also on death recap's, Viper will always be first in the order.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9NvufH-edg&feature=youtu.be

Interesting findings. Thanks for the research! This is a strong setup (viper/veli/etc), but it is definitely beatable. In fact, you can pretty much just sneeze on a NB running that setup and win a duel. Now, melee range is going to be a bit tougher because of velidreth's big turds that smack your opponents in the face, but other than that I don't see why anyone should have that much of an issue with it.

*I can't tell you how many times on a magicka build I've run Valkyn Skoria and had a proc off of something ridiculous like my siege, and I have a meteor kill someone on the other side of the map! Lol, but I don't see many people complaining about that.


Is getting ganked frustrating? Absolutely. But I don't think a nerf is really justified. If you nerf these sets, you will still be ganked, just as hard.

Sandman929

I don't know if it's bugged, but I'm getting annoyed with Death-by-Armor where a light attack is now an execute.

CapuchinSeven

Sandman929 wrote: »

I don't know if it's bugged, but I'm getting annoyed with Death-by-Armor where a light attack is now an execute.

Probably the best way to sum it up I've heard.

Minno

Beardimus wrote: »

You cant assume everyone knows, I didn't know and have been looking for the set for my Archer Alt, had I of got it I would have been hitting away unknowingly.

Sure people exploit, but the constant call for lynch mobbing is a little uncalled for i think.

Plus given the Time to Fix such things, opening a support case has surely got to be better than a forum post if you want less people to do it no?

Rinaldo has historically been able to open up a discussion with devs both in thread and private message outside of /bug.

And the very least, it's a thread highlighting the current trend on over performing sets that stand in the way of class balance, especially when those mechanics are hard to see therefore hard to react to fairly.

Osteos

Its acutally 2 sets when used together that is the exploit. The 5 pc bonus on the one is considered a melee attack which can proc Viper so you get hit with both at the same time.

RinaldoGandolphi

Osteos wrote: »

Its acutally 2 sets when used together that is the exploit. The 5 pc bonus on the one is considered a melee attack which can proc Viper so you get hit with both at the same time.

Yup that's the big one right there.

RinaldoGandolphi

Minno wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

You cant assume everyone knows, I didn't know and have been looking for the set for my Archer Alt, had I of got it I would have been hitting away unknowingly.

Sure people exploit, but the constant call for lynch mobbing is a little uncalled for i think.

Plus given the Time to Fix such things, opening a support case has surely got to be better than a forum post if you want less people to do it no?

Rinaldo has historically been able to open up a discussion with devs both in thread and private message outside of /bug.

And the very least, it's a thread highlighting the current trend on over performing sets that stand in the way of class balance, especially when those mechanics are hard to see therefore hard to react to fairly.

Well I did get the Bombard perma root nonsense fixed, it took awhile but it's nice to not be perma snared and rooted anymore in pvp. I think everyone is happy about that.

Minno

Osteos wrote: »

Its acutally 2 sets when used together that is the exploit. The 5 pc bonus on the one is considered a melee attack which can proc Viper so you get hit with both at the same time.

Lol gotta love this game sometimes.

Xsorus

Last I checked its proc is based off Distance

In otherwords.

If I hit you with Poison Injection and i'm standing more then 5 Meters it won't go off on the dot

If i come in within 5 meters it'll go off.

Lexxypwns

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Hey guys just recorded a short video to debunk any theories here.

Results:

• Bow Light - Does not Proc
• Bow Heavy - Does not Proc (not in video sorry)
• Scatter Shot - Does not Proc
• Shrouded Daggers - Does Proc (theres 3 numbers, 1 for skill, 1 for enchant, 1 for Viper)
• Steel Tornado - Does Proc (3 numbers as well same as above ^)
• If you want me to test any other skill just ask and ill be happy to provide another video
  

The only ranged ability from my tests that proc this set is Hidden Blade from the Duel Wield Skill-line. Not sure if this classes as a melee ability because your using a melee weapon. Probably should not be proc'ing this set but who knows.

In general, the proc's are probably coming from gap closer's after someone uses heavy bow/poison inj.

Just to note also on death recap's, Viper will always be first in the order.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9NvufH-edg&feature=youtu.be

You're not animation canceling anything with a bar swap to 2h.

You need to Bow LA-weapon swap animation cancel for each of these to really test, its believed that when you switch to the 2h(or dw) it assumes you're using a melee attack, which is supported by hidden blade proc'ing viper

FENGRUSH

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Hey guys just recorded a short video to debunk any theories here.

Results:

• Bow Light - Does not Proc
• Bow Heavy - Does not Proc (not in video sorry)
• Scatter Shot - Does not Proc
• Shrouded Daggers - Does Proc (theres 3 numbers, 1 for skill, 1 for enchant, 1 for Viper)
• Steel Tornado - Does Proc (3 numbers as well same as above ^)
• If you want me to test any other skill just ask and ill be happy to provide another video
  

The only ranged ability from my tests that proc this set is Hidden Blade from the Duel Wield Skill-line. Not sure if this classes as a melee ability because your using a melee weapon. Probably should not be proc'ing this set but who knows.

In general, the proc's are probably coming from gap closer's after someone uses heavy bow/poison inj.

Just to note also on death recap's, Viper will always be first in the order.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9NvufH-edg&feature=youtu.be

They werent saying it proc'd on bow, theyre saying it procs when using bow with weapon swap. All effects in game have always worked like this - not sure if this one is, havent tried viper myself. But it should.

GreenSoup2HoT

@Lexxypwns
@FENGRUSH
@Xsorus

I got another video for you guys. The findings are quiet interesting! So in this test i have on 5 widowmaker and 5 Viper on both bars.

I am using a Snare Poison so it's easy to identify the damage numbers.

Results:

• Widowmaker proc, proc's Viper! OUCH!
• Silver Shards does not proc Viper (while on melee bar)
• Heavy attack weapon swap does not proc Viper
• Poison Injection Swap does not proc Viper
• Scatter Shot swap does not proc Viper
• Light attack Swap does not proc Viper

Just want to make clear, i am using the weapon swap button itself to animation cancel the heavy attacks instantly. I also tested out various ranges to see if that made any difference and it did not.

So the issue is the Widowmaker set proc is proc'ing Viper. Which means your guaranteed to get a double proc of big damage by spamming light/heavy attacks or weapon skill-line abilities with a bow and a poison equipped. I'd assume this also happens with Hidden Blade.

After figuring out silver shards does not proc Viper on my melee bar, i think only Hidden Blade in the Duel Wield Skill line is acting up and procing Viper. Most likely this ability slipped though the testing phase. Hidden Blade proc's viper without Widowmaker to be clear. This means that Hidden Blade is not as consistent at proc'ing both effects at the same time compared to bow because viper is 100% chance and widowmaker is 20%. Bow light/heavy attacks and weapon abilities need to proc the poison (for the Widowmaker proc) in order to proc Viper for that double whammy.

I also do not have Velidrith shoulders so i can't properly test if that monster set proc, proc's viper. Hopefully in the future i can get the shoulders to test if they proc viper as well.


Hopefully this was informative. I will probably be doing more videos like this in the future if needed.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nnJW3tyWrg&feature=youtu.be

Osteos

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

@Lexxypwns
@FENGRUSH
@Xsorus

I got another video for you guys. The findings are quiet interesting! So in this test i have on 5 widowmaker and 5 Viper on both bars.

I am using a Snare Poison so it's easy to identify the damage numbers.

Results:

• Widowmaker proc, proc's Viper! OUCH!
• Silver Shards does not proc Viper (while on melee bar)
• Heavy attack weapon swap does not proc Viper
• Poison Injection Swap does not proc Viper
• Scatter Shot swap does not proc Viper
• Light attack Swap does not proc Viper

Just want to make clear, i am using the weapon swap button itself to animation cancel the heavy attacks instantly. I also tested out various ranges to see if that made any difference and it did not.

So the issue is the Widowmaker set proc is proc'ing Viper. Which means your guaranteed to get a double proc of big damage by spamming light/heavy attacks or weapon skill-line abilities with a bow and a poison equipped. I'd assume this also happens with Hidden Blade.

After figuring out silver shards does not proc Viper on my melee bar, i think only Hidden Blade in the Duel Wield Skill line is acting up and procing Viper. Most likely this ability slipped though the testing phase. Hidden Blade proc's viper without Widowmaker to be clear. This means that Hidden Blade is not as consistent at proc'ing both effects at the same time compared to bow because viper is 100% chance and widowmaker is 20%. Bow light/heavy attacks and weapon abilities need to proc the poison (for the Widowmaker proc) in order to proc Viper for that double whammy.

I also do not have Velidrith shoulders so i can't properly test if that monster set proc, proc's viper. Hopefully in the future i can get the shoulders to test if they proc viper as well.


Hopefully this was informative. I will probably be doing more videos like this in the future if needed.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nnJW3tyWrg&feature=youtu.be

Congrats for finally figuring it out.

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Osteos wrote: »

Its acutally 2 sets when used together that is the exploit. The 5 pc bonus on the one is considered a melee attack which can proc Viper so you get hit with both at the same time.

Yup that's the big one right there.

Lava_Croft

Please remove all these "Press button to randomly proc ridiculously high damage attack" sets. They have nothing to do with player skill.

rfennell_ESO

I find the issue with viper's proc is mostly being caused by charges.

The fact that charges are landing their snare and damage at extreme range, followed by procs and whatever was "weaved" with charge. I use "" around weaved because I doubt anything is being weaved and it's just macros. The only manual thing I see working with charge (and it probably shouldn't) is that if you hold down heavy attack and charge your opponent get hit by both.

Charges are broken, have been since they were "fixed". The fact is... even if you dodge a charge the rest of the cancer player's procs and "weaves" are bound to hit you and they will still be on you.

Why charges are applying their debuff from Timbuktu to you and allowing people to spam abilities on you is really what's broken. You really can't dodge a max range charge (and by max range I mean so far away it's a joke) because you can't see it coming easily and then you have the heavy attack they loaded up before the charge, the weapon swap->poison injection->weapon swap->dizzying swing bs that's happening during the charge.

I have videos of the tumors at work and you literally can't see the weapon swap... some of them (templars obviously) I see in the air flying around via charge with their shield up or already channeling jabs (which hit you at range).

Everyone hates cooldowns, but charge is in need of a cooldown on top of being fixed so it's not being abused as it is right now.

Unless you think someone bouncing around a battlefield like a pinball is really what was intended (and I know the abusers certainly do)... because it makes for some stupid and crappy gameplay.

Lastly, ever seen these cancer groups that it's 5-6 guys all just critical charging on in procing everything with "weaved" attacks on top of it? There is little to no avoiding them if they are range and little to no surviving it. The fact that mid charge dawnbreaker of smiting hits you from range makes it even more laughable.

Vaoh

It is very easy to proc using a Bow instead of melee attacks.

All of the "best" and "super-skilled" players are Stam NB abusing the exploit. It also allows for an unparalleled set combination that normally woud be very imbalanced/overly-powerful but is pushed even further with the correct setup using this exploit.

Let's get this fixed ZOS!

Erock25

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

I find the issue with viper's proc is mostly being caused by charges.

The fact that charges are landing their snare and damage at extreme range, followed by procs and whatever was "weaved" with charge. I use "" around weaved because I doubt anything is being weaved and it's just macros. The only manual thing I see working with charge (and it probably shouldn't) is that if you hold down heavy attack and charge your opponent get hit by both.

Charges are broken, have been since they were "fixed". The fact is... even if you dodge a charge the rest of the cancer player's procs and "weaves" are bound to hit you and they will still be on you.

Why charges are applying their debuff from Timbuktu to you and allowing people to spam abilities on you is really what's broken. You really can't dodge a max range charge (and by max range I mean so far away it's a joke) because you can't see it coming easily and then you have the heavy attack they loaded up before the charge, the weapon swap->poison injection->weapon swap->dizzying swing bs that's happening during the charge.

I have videos of the tumors at work and you literally can't see the weapon swap... some of them (templars obviously) I see in the air flying around via charge with their shield up or already channeling jabs (which hit you at range).

Everyone hates cooldowns, but charge is in need of a cooldown on top of being fixed so it's not being abused as it is right now.

Unless you think someone bouncing around a battlefield like a pinball is really what was intended (and I know the abusers certainly do)... because it makes for some stupid and crappy gameplay.

Lastly, ever seen these cancer groups that it's 5-6 guys all just critical charging on in procing everything with "weaved" attacks on top of it? There is little to no avoiding them if they are range and little to no surviving it. The fact that mid charge dawnbreaker of smiting hits you from range makes it even more laughable.

Does anyone agree with this guy that people are pulling off poison injection, diz swing, or jabs mid charge? Honestly curious because I've never seen it. I know you can pre load your heavy attack before a charge but everything else he says seems bogus to me. What say you? Is he wrong or is he right?

DUTCH_REAPER

I tested this with a friend and could not get it to proc from bow pi or la and even swapping to 2H. ? I use this set in PVP and will definitely be looking closer at my hud to record if I see it proc to send it in. But until there is proof, calling on people to get reported is not cool gents. If someone has proof please send it in so it can get fixed IF it really is broken

Pallio

Sometimes melee attack just means, in melee range.ie. point blank bow attacks... I used the fire proc crafted set my new alt from Lvl 10 on, it procs from anything within 8 meters...

DUTCH_REAPER

I honestly would have thought the bigger issue in PVP is the perma stun spammers running around. First I have heard of this set having a potential issue. Will keep an eye out on it though now.

FENGRUSH

Erock25 wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

I find the issue with viper's proc is mostly being caused by charges.

The fact that charges are landing their snare and damage at extreme range, followed by procs and whatever was "weaved" with charge. I use "" around weaved because I doubt anything is being weaved and it's just macros. The only manual thing I see working with charge (and it probably shouldn't) is that if you hold down heavy attack and charge your opponent get hit by both.

Charges are broken, have been since they were "fixed". The fact is... even if you dodge a charge the rest of the cancer player's procs and "weaves" are bound to hit you and they will still be on you.

Why charges are applying their debuff from Timbuktu to you and allowing people to spam abilities on you is really what's broken. You really can't dodge a max range charge (and by max range I mean so far away it's a joke) because you can't see it coming easily and then you have the heavy attack they loaded up before the charge, the weapon swap->poison injection->weapon swap->dizzying swing bs that's happening during the charge.

I have videos of the tumors at work and you literally can't see the weapon swap... some of them (templars obviously) I see in the air flying around via charge with their shield up or already channeling jabs (which hit you at range).

Everyone hates cooldowns, but charge is in need of a cooldown on top of being fixed so it's not being abused as it is right now.

Unless you think someone bouncing around a battlefield like a pinball is really what was intended (and I know the abusers certainly do)... because it makes for some stupid and crappy gameplay.

Lastly, ever seen these cancer groups that it's 5-6 guys all just critical charging on in procing everything with "weaved" attacks on top of it? There is little to no avoiding them if they are range and little to no surviving it. The fact that mid charge dawnbreaker of smiting hits you from range makes it even more laughable.

Does anyone agree with this guy that people are pulling off poison injection, diz swing, or jabs mid charge? Honestly curious because I've never seen it. I know you can pre load your heavy attack before a charge but everything else he says seems bogus to me. What say you? Is he wrong or is he right?

You can charge heavy attacks and then charge - but you have to be in range anyway, youre not doing this from long charge range. You do this up close.

Everything else sounds like a macroslice. You dont dawnbreak someone from a mile away. Ive seen videos of stuff described there - they were all macroslices (getting stuck in a charge animation - whats actually happening is not seen until its all over).

RinaldoGandolphi

Erock25 wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

I find the issue with viper's proc is mostly being caused by charges.

The fact that charges are landing their snare and damage at extreme range, followed by procs and whatever was "weaved" with charge. I use "" around weaved because I doubt anything is being weaved and it's just macros. The only manual thing I see working with charge (and it probably shouldn't) is that if you hold down heavy attack and charge your opponent get hit by both.

Charges are broken, have been since they were "fixed". The fact is... even if you dodge a charge the rest of the cancer player's procs and "weaves" are bound to hit you and they will still be on you.

Why charges are applying their debuff from Timbuktu to you and allowing people to spam abilities on you is really what's broken. You really can't dodge a max range charge (and by max range I mean so far away it's a joke) because you can't see it coming easily and then you have the heavy attack they loaded up before the charge, the weapon swap->poison injection->weapon swap->dizzying swing bs that's happening during the charge.

I have videos of the tumors at work and you literally can't see the weapon swap... some of them (templars obviously) I see in the air flying around via charge with their shield up or already channeling jabs (which hit you at range).

Everyone hates cooldowns, but charge is in need of a cooldown on top of being fixed so it's not being abused as it is right now.

Unless you think someone bouncing around a battlefield like a pinball is really what was intended (and I know the abusers certainly do)... because it makes for some stupid and crappy gameplay.

Lastly, ever seen these cancer groups that it's 5-6 guys all just critical charging on in procing everything with "weaved" attacks on top of it? There is little to no avoiding them if they are range and little to no surviving it. The fact that mid charge dawnbreaker of smiting hits you from range makes it even more laughable.

Does anyone agree with this guy that people are pulling off poison injection, diz swing, or jabs mid charge? Honestly curious because I've never seen it. I know you can pre load your heavy attack before a charge but everything else he says seems bogus to me. What say you? Is he wrong or is he right?

I am not agreeing with him, but Gap Closers are bugged...it some pretty crazy ways this time around. You can also 100% obscure the animation on Dawnbreaker which in pointed fact is plain stupid...just imagine the QQ if i could Animation Cancel Ice Comet and remove the sound and the circle around your feet so you couldn't see it coming...would be fair right? Of course its totally fair that an ultimate that costs half its price, and does more damage can be hidden completely. Logic Yo

rfennell_ESO

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

I find the issue with viper's proc is mostly being caused by charges.

The fact that charges are landing their snare and damage at extreme range, followed by procs and whatever was "weaved" with charge. I use "" around weaved because I doubt anything is being weaved and it's just macros. The only manual thing I see working with charge (and it probably shouldn't) is that if you hold down heavy attack and charge your opponent get hit by both.

Charges are broken, have been since they were "fixed". The fact is... even if you dodge a charge the rest of the cancer player's procs and "weaves" are bound to hit you and they will still be on you.

Why charges are applying their debuff from Timbuktu to you and allowing people to spam abilities on you is really what's broken. You really can't dodge a max range charge (and by max range I mean so far away it's a joke) because you can't see it coming easily and then you have the heavy attack they loaded up before the charge, the weapon swap->poison injection->weapon swap->dizzying swing bs that's happening during the charge.

I have videos of the tumors at work and you literally can't see the weapon swap... some of them (templars obviously) I see in the air flying around via charge with their shield up or already channeling jabs (which hit you at range).

Everyone hates cooldowns, but charge is in need of a cooldown on top of being fixed so it's not being abused as it is right now.

Unless you think someone bouncing around a battlefield like a pinball is really what was intended (and I know the abusers certainly do)... because it makes for some stupid and crappy gameplay.

Lastly, ever seen these cancer groups that it's 5-6 guys all just critical charging on in procing everything with "weaved" attacks on top of it? There is little to no avoiding them if they are range and little to no surviving it. The fact that mid charge dawnbreaker of smiting hits you from range makes it even more laughable.

Does anyone agree with this guy that people are pulling off poison injection, diz swing, or jabs mid charge? Honestly curious because I've never seen it. I know you can pre load your heavy attack before a charge but everything else he says seems bogus to me. What say you? Is he wrong or is he right?

You can charge heavy attacks and then charge - but you have to be in range anyway, youre not doing this from long charge range. You do this up close.

Everything else sounds like a macroslice. You dont dawnbreak someone from a mile away. Ive seen videos of stuff described there - they were all macroslices (getting stuck in a charge animation - whats actually happening is not seen until its all over).

I don't know what you are defining macroslice as.

But I can definitively say there were some groups that were doing everything I said... and doing it every time. Obviously I can't name names here because those up to no good are afforded protection from being outed, and let's just say you can't "talk poo" here... But a certain group of EP in particular was everyone in the group doing it. The sequence was usually you see them blurring toward you, get hit by a heavy attack, poison injection, Critical charge, Merciless charge, proc on top of another proc.. then no animation on whatever they are doing last. I've watched them in slow motion, you never see a bow and you never see the last animation of dawnbreaker/dizzying swing/executioner or whatever they use.

But... I've seen these things more than a couple times and far more than a few.

Even without these exploitative mechanics being used, the fact there are so many "charge" centric builds that just pinball around killing people is evidence enough. Many charge "builds" are hitting you with a heavy attack, critical charge, merciless charge, procs and a hidden animation attack and then charging halfway across the battle field to someone else before you can do a thing.

Dreyloch

I don't think any of this is going to matter much in a couple weeks. Too many new sets coming with One Tam. From what I understand overland and dungeon sets will also now be available in impen. There probably won't be enough people in pvp to even care for awhile because they'll all be trying to get this new gear lol.

raviour

some bows skills are melee - bombard and magnum are close range only, it should be set to proc from a certain distance but we dont need even more calculations around us...