***Significant Issue with Elemental Rage (Elemental Storm Morph):Destruction Staff Ult

Vaoh

There's a huge issue I noticed with the Destruction Staff Ultimate.

Listed the skills (+morphs) below:

Base Ultimate Skill:


***Morph 1:


Morph 2:


The issue:

So..... WHY is Elemental Rage A FREAKING MORPH???? We are using the Destruction Staff skill line. We shouldn't have to spend a morph of our lackluster 250 Ult cost "Ultimate" Skill to gain the effects that should've been part of the base skill! That's why it is lackluster!

Destructive Touch, Wall of Elements, and Impulse all have unique effects based on which Destruction Staff Element you equip besides the typical damage type change. Elemental Storm, the Ultimate, drops this for no reason.

What needs to be done:

Allow the effects of Elemental Rage to manifest in the base skill (Elemental Storm) and the other morph (Eye of the Storm).

Elemental Rage can have a new effect.

Elemental Rage:
New Effect: Pulse for X elemental damage(2x the DoT's "per second" strength) every 2 seconds. The Pulse damage increases by 50% each time it procs.

See? That wasn't too difficult to buff. Let's get this to happen people!

Dracane

I agree, this should be a baseline effect of this ability.
But I don't agree with your suggestions. It's not like your buff would make it too strong or so. But it would make eye of the storm useless in comparison, because nobody would want to sacrifise this damage. And when it comes to this ability, every liddle bit of damage is too valueable to ignore.

Elemental rage should simply keep that secondary effect (Fire more damage, frost reduces cost, shock increased duration)
And now please cut the cost of this ult in half and give it a damage buff, so that's at least a bit more than batswarm.

Vaoh

Dracane wrote: »

I agree, this should be a baseline effect of this ability.
But I don't agree with your suggestions. It's not like your buff would make it too strong or so. But it would make eye of the storm useless in comparison, because nobody would want to sacrifise this damage. And when it comes to this ability, every liddle bit of damage is too valueable to ignore.

Elemental rage should simply keep that secondary effect (Fire more damage, frost reduces cost, shock increased duration)
And now please cut the cost of this ult in half and give it a damage buff, so that's at least a bit more than batswarm.

Elemental Rage gives much better damage. PvE-wise, it'd be awesome. The name also matches since it'd pulse quite aggressively. It'd be easy to step out of in PvP, and would see very limited use.

Eye of the Storm follows you around. This is undoubtedly the morph to take in PvP, since you can chase your opponent. Far better than the other morph.

See? They both work if done this way

Dracane

Vaoh wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I agree, this should be a baseline effect of this ability.
But I don't agree with your suggestions. It's not like your buff would make it too strong or so. But it would make eye of the storm useless in comparison, because nobody would want to sacrifise this damage. And when it comes to this ability, every liddle bit of damage is too valueable to ignore.

Elemental rage should simply keep that secondary effect (Fire more damage, frost reduces cost, shock increased duration)
And now please cut the cost of this ult in half and give it a damage buff, so that's at least a bit more than batswarm.

Elemental Rage gives much better damage. PvE-wise, it'd be awesome. The name also matches since it'd pulse quite aggressively. It'd be easy to step out of in PvP, and would see very limited use.

Eye of the Storm follows you around. This is undoubtedly the morph to take in PvP, since you can chase your opponent. Far better than the other morph.

See? They both work if done this way

Yes, buuuuut. I would envy so hard on Elemental rage users, because they can actually deal damage with it While I am stack with a batswarm version for poor people who are too poor to buy a vampire bite.

Vaoh

Dracane wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I agree, this should be a baseline effect of this ability.
But I don't agree with your suggestions. It's not like your buff would make it too strong or so. But it would make eye of the storm useless in comparison, because nobody would want to sacrifise this damage. And when it comes to this ability, every liddle bit of damage is too valueable to ignore.

Elemental rage should simply keep that secondary effect (Fire more damage, frost reduces cost, shock increased duration)
And now please cut the cost of this ult in half and give it a damage buff, so that's at least a bit more than batswarm.

Elemental Rage gives much better damage. PvE-wise, it'd be awesome. The name also matches since it'd pulse quite aggressively. It'd be easy to step out of in PvP, and would see very limited use.

Eye of the Storm follows you around. This is undoubtedly the morph to take in PvP, since you can chase your opponent. Far better than the other morph.

See? They both work if done this way

Yes, buuuuut. I would envy so hard on Elemental rage users, because they can actually deal damage with it While I am stack with a batswarm version for poor people who are too poor to buy a vampire bite.

Eye of the Storm would still be plenty strong! Just not right now, with the Staff elemental bonuses taken away

It's a pretty good idea though, right!

Like it should totally do what I listed it to do, and everyone would be happy since it wouldn't be "weaker" than the other Weapon Ults. I cannot think of anything else that would make a better morph, and it just seems balanced and correct to have pulsing damage like a sort of Hurricane-esque damage increase.

Elemental Rage provides nice, cool, viable damage for PvE.

Eye of the Storm provides a reliable, dangerous, awesome, and viable AoE DoT that you can force enemies into in PvP.

Plz make it happen ZOS

Dracane

We'll see.
First it would be nice to know, why elemental storm turned out this way in the first place.
Like why they went for such high cost and such low damage in comparison to all the other ults, who are fairly cheap and deal more damage as well.

I really really hope, this is not because this has such a big radius -.- Devs are always so weird when it comes to aoes.
Look at it this way. Does radius really matter that much ? I mean, they choose a big radius, but make the damage lower to "Balance" it.

But imagine an aoe that is as big as Cyrodiil, but only ticks for 1 damage per second it wouldn't harm anyone. Same with this ult. I don't think that area of effect should be an excuse for giving abilities low per-target damage.

RoyJade

They indeed must give the base skill all the rage morph bonuses. They must also boost the damage of the two morphs, the damage is very poor for the high cost at the moment.

The rage morph should gain additional effect based on the staff, exactly as destructive clench and elemental wall have :
- frost should snare + root in the area -> great CC aoe
- fire should explose at the beginning for some damage and stun -> a little CC and more damage, good against a zerg or in pve
- thunder should blind all enemies inside for a 100% miss chance -> "physical" version of negate (all atack but magic aoe negated), anti zerg, good defense pve morph.

zerosingularity

For the record, Ice Staff Elemental Rage on a flag with oils would do alot of damage, and the slow is real. Throw a WoE in there and you got a nice root in an ult+oil.

But it does need change/buffs, like every other discussion about this. I do agree that the base effect should take into account the staff type in more ways than just the element though. (Burning, chilled, concussed.) It is important to keep both morphs balanced vs each other. Any damage increase should be across the board, same with reduced ult cost.

Faulgor

Dracane wrote: »

We'll see.
First it would be nice to know, why elemental storm turned out this way in the first place.
Like why they went for such high cost and such low damage in comparison to all the other ults, who are fairly cheap and deal more damage as well.

I really really hope, this is not because this has such a big radius -.- Devs are always so weird when it comes to aoes.
Look at it this way. Does radius really matter that much ? I mean, they choose a big radius, but make the damage lower to "Balance" it.

But imagine an aoe that is as big as Cyrodiil, but only ticks for 1 damage per second it wouldn't harm anyone. Same with this ult. I don't think that area of effect should be an excuse for giving abilities low per-target damage.

Generally I agree, but there are other factors besides per-target damage. For example, low damage abilities can still be useful if they apply status effects, or hit more often than other DoTs to trigger certain effects, etc.
The only other MMO I played seriously, Ragnarok Online, had a very similar skill to Lightning Elemental Rage (Lord of Vermillion). Largest AoE in the game, lots of low damage hits per target. Even though there was a benefit to this, as each hit staggered an enemy and made it difficult for them to move, nobody used this skill until it also had a chance to apply the 'silence' status effect.

Point is, nobody is going to use this destruction ultimate unless it has worthwhile secondary effects (like almost any other ultimate). And no, the elemental effects (burning, chilled, concussed) are not worthwhile. Which is a shame, because so much could be done with elemental status effects. Either they fix those - preferably along with the unjust dominance of fire staffs due to their simple damage bonus - or they add something else to this ultimate.

Personally, some base changes I'd like to see:

- lower cost to 175
- increase base damage by 40%
- remove the 2 second startup
- move Elemental Rage effect to the base skill
- new effect for Elemental Rage: Enemies inside the area of effect take 20% increased damage from fire, frost or shock damage.
- additional effect for Eye of the Storm: If you fall below 60% health, the damage is released instantaneously.

That would make one morph preferable for controlled PvE situations, either as a direct damage increase or a support, and the other preferable for PvP or more defensive builds.

Dracane

Faulgor wrote: »

Generally I agree, but there are other factors besides per-target damage. For example, low damage abilities can still be useful if they apply status effects, or hit more often than other DoTs to trigger certain effects, etc.
The only other MMO I played seriously, Ragnarok Online, had a very similar skill to Lightning Elemental Rage (Lord of Vermillion). Largest AoE in the game, lots of low damage hits per target. Even though there was a benefit to this, as each hit staggered an enemy and made it difficult for them to move, nobody used this skill until it also had a chance to apply the 'silence' status effect.

Point is, nobody is going to use this destruction ultimate unless it has worthwhile secondary effects (like almost any other ultimate). And no, the elemental effects (burning, chilled, concussed) are not worthwhile. Which is a shame, because so much could be done with elemental status effects. Either they fix those - preferably along with the unjust dominance of fire staffs due to their simple damage bonus - or they add something else to this ultimate.

Personally, some base changes I'd like to see:

- lower cost to 175
- increase base damage by 40%
- remove the 2 second startup
- move Elemental Rage effect to the base skill
- new effect for Elemental Rage: Enemies inside the area of effect take 20% increased damage from fire, frost or shock damage.
- additional effect for Eye of the Storm: If you fall below 60% health, the damage is released instantaneously.

That would make one morph preferable for controlled PvE situations, either as a direct damage increase or a support, and the other preferable for PvP or more defensive builds.

So far, overload was the only ultimate in the game, that offered no CC or secondary effect or debuff. Which was alright, since it has nice damage to compensate.

I would be happy, if elemental storm would be like overload. No utility, but high damage to compensate.
It's DESTRUCTION Staff !!!! But none of its abilities causes destruction It's the lowest damage weapon line. Healing staff excluded, it's not an offensive weapon.

Faulgor

Dracane wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

Generally I agree, but there are other factors besides per-target damage. For example, low damage abilities can still be useful if they apply status effects, or hit more often than other DoTs to trigger certain effects, etc.
The only other MMO I played seriously, Ragnarok Online, had a very similar skill to Lightning Elemental Rage (Lord of Vermillion). Largest AoE in the game, lots of low damage hits per target. Even though there was a benefit to this, as each hit staggered an enemy and made it difficult for them to move, nobody used this skill until it also had a chance to apply the 'silence' status effect.

Point is, nobody is going to use this destruction ultimate unless it has worthwhile secondary effects (like almost any other ultimate). And no, the elemental effects (burning, chilled, concussed) are not worthwhile. Which is a shame, because so much could be done with elemental status effects. Either they fix those - preferably along with the unjust dominance of fire staffs due to their simple damage bonus - or they add something else to this ultimate.

Personally, some base changes I'd like to see:

- lower cost to 175
- increase base damage by 40%
- remove the 2 second startup
- move Elemental Rage effect to the base skill
- new effect for Elemental Rage: Enemies inside the area of effect take 20% increased damage from fire, frost or shock damage.
- additional effect for Eye of the Storm: If you fall below 60% health, the damage is released instantaneously.

That would make one morph preferable for controlled PvE situations, either as a direct damage increase or a support, and the other preferable for PvP or more defensive builds.

So far, overload was the only ultimate in the game, that offered no CC or secondary effect or debuff. Which was alright, since it has nice damage to compensate.

I would be happy, if elemental storm would be like overload. No utility, but high damage to compensate.
It's DESTRUCTION Staff !!!! But none of its abilities causes destruction It's the lowest damage weapon line. Healing staff excluded, it's not an offensive weapon.

That would be fine too, but then it really has to outshine other options like Meteor which have the damage and secondary effects. An AoE-equivalent to Overload could be absolutely terrifying.

Ferrofluid

Surely this would be really good on a lightning staff sorc? Concussion reduces damage done by 15% and you have the chance to proc implosion. Also, I'm pretty sure the person who posted the picture of the ulti wasn't spec'd for it so the damage will be higher

Humatiel

Ferrofluid wrote: »

Surely this would be really good on a lightning staff sorc? Concussion reduces damage done by 15% and you have the chance to proc implosion. Also, I'm pretty sure the person who posted the picture of the ulti wasn't spec'd for it so the damage will be higher

damage scales, the difference in damage your looking at is a percentage based difference. It would remain the same percentage apart regardless of the build. At the end of the day its at best a minor pvp buff and might be useful if it wasnt an ultimate that cost 250.

TheDarkRuler

I would only change minor things in this ultimate.

1st: Give the unmorphed ability the elemental effects.
2nd: Alter the elemental morph to ...
"Removes the building up phase and guarantee to inflict the burning, chilled or concussed status effect to enemies within."

Simple... the cost is fine and the damage is fine as well in my eyes.
Only thing that is annoying is the building-up phase.

Dracane

Faulgor wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

Generally I agree, but there are other factors besides per-target damage. For example, low damage abilities can still be useful if they apply status effects, or hit more often than other DoTs to trigger certain effects, etc.
The only other MMO I played seriously, Ragnarok Online, had a very similar skill to Lightning Elemental Rage (Lord of Vermillion). Largest AoE in the game, lots of low damage hits per target. Even though there was a benefit to this, as each hit staggered an enemy and made it difficult for them to move, nobody used this skill until it also had a chance to apply the 'silence' status effect.

Point is, nobody is going to use this destruction ultimate unless it has worthwhile secondary effects (like almost any other ultimate). And no, the elemental effects (burning, chilled, concussed) are not worthwhile. Which is a shame, because so much could be done with elemental status effects. Either they fix those - preferably along with the unjust dominance of fire staffs due to their simple damage bonus - or they add something else to this ultimate.

Personally, some base changes I'd like to see:

- lower cost to 175
- increase base damage by 40%
- remove the 2 second startup
- move Elemental Rage effect to the base skill
- new effect for Elemental Rage: Enemies inside the area of effect take 20% increased damage from fire, frost or shock damage.
- additional effect for Eye of the Storm: If you fall below 60% health, the damage is released instantaneously.

That would make one morph preferable for controlled PvE situations, either as a direct damage increase or a support, and the other preferable for PvP or more defensive builds.

So far, overload was the only ultimate in the game, that offered no CC or secondary effect or debuff. Which was alright, since it has nice damage to compensate.

I would be happy, if elemental storm would be like overload. No utility, but high damage to compensate.
It's DESTRUCTION Staff !!!! But none of its abilities causes destruction It's the lowest damage weapon line. Healing staff excluded, it's not an offensive weapon.

That would be fine too, but then it really has to outshine other options like Meteor which have the damage and secondary effects. An AoE-equivalent to Overload could be absolutely terrifying.

Oh hahaha that's not exactly what I meant
I was talking about functionality. 0 utility, but high damage to compensate.

cschwingeb14_ESO

Agree with the OP that the elemental thing needs to be baseline. But then the Eye of the Storm morph should drop to 8m. A 10s refreshing snare that does ok damage is pretty nasty.

The stationary morph could gain some other effect. Damage building each tick would be great for PvE, but at no point should the last tick be more that 100% bigger than the first

Cronopoly

Ferrofluid wrote: »

Surely this would be really good on a lightning staff sorc? Concussion reduces damage done by 15% and you have the chance to proc implosion. Also, I'm pretty sure the person who posted the picture of the ulti wasn't spec'd for it so the damage will be higher

Lightning staff was nerfed. NO more Tri Focus passive AOE per tick anymore on PTS excepot on the last tick...sigh

jwboudreau1b16_ESO

Cronopoly wrote: »

Ferrofluid wrote: »

Surely this would be really good on a lightning staff sorc? Concussion reduces damage done by 15% and you have the chance to proc implosion. Also, I'm pretty sure the person who posted the picture of the ulti wasn't spec'd for it so the damage will be higher

Lightning staff was nerfed. NO more Tri Focus passive AOE per tick anymore on PTS excepot on the last tick...sigh

Ugh, sigh... that's a huge nerf.

As per the topic at hand, I do like the new ultimate, but I wish that it dealt actual elemental damage rather than Magic damage.

tinythinker

RoyJade wrote: »

They indeed must give the base skill all the rage morph bonuses. They must also boost the damage of the two morphs, the damage is very poor for the high cost at the moment.

The rage morph should gain additional effect based on the staff, exactly as destructive clench and elemental wall have :
- frost should snare + root in the area -> great CC aoe
- fire should explose at the beginning for some damage and stun -> a little CC and more damage, good against a zerg or in pve
- thunder should blind all enemies inside for a 100% miss chance -> "physical" version of negate (all atack but magic aoe negated), anti zerg, good defense pve morph.

Sounds good.

Cronopoly wrote: »

Lightning staff was nerfed. NO more Tri Focus passive AOE per tick anymore on PTS excepot on the last tick...sigh

Yeah, a pointless ninja-nerf. I wonder if it will be one of those things they (will claim they) didn't intend? I really hope so.

TheDarkRuler

I don't know how the rest of you sees it but only Fire destruction staff is viable right now.
Lightning misses the damage especially against high hit-point targets but was good against groups.
I'd even suggest to make the chain lightning jump even further.

And I don't even know how to start with cold.
Cold is ridiculously underpowered. However this could change with some of the new sets like Ice Heart/Winterborn combo.

Khaos_Bane

Vaoh wrote: »

There's a huge issue I noticed with the Destruction Staff Ultimate.

Listed the skills (+morphs) below:

Base Ultimate Skill:


***Morph 1:


Morph 2:


The issue:

So..... WHY is Elemental Rage A FREAKING MORPH????

Because they showed ZERO Imagination with the resto and destro Ultis. They are boring, not creative at all, and useless. TERRIBLE.

Shadesofkin

I believe the moves of the Celestial Mage in AA should be the template to consider for Destruction Staff Ultimates. The Knockdown and the Chain Lightning are both fantastic ways that a destro staff ult could be templated.

Take a look at what your NPC's are doing and use that as a basis.

Also, I feel as if Destruction Ultimates should have some sort of magicka return synergy for allies.