ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »I just completed the upper and lower crag main quests. I'm happy that I can finally do these without the group puzzles blocking progression.
Something that concerns me though: I've always loved the challenge of running this zone solo. I find almost all solo content in this game extremely easy, and this was the one of the very few areas where I feel like I need to pay attention and react to whats happening in the fight. When I read that the main quest content was being nerfed to the level of other solo zones, it didn't seem like a big deal, as long as most of the zone was left intact.
The problem is the "main quest" seems to encompass the majority of Craglorn. Here is a list of areas in Craglorn from UESP, excluding the Trials and DSA. I've bolded the areas that have been nerfed, or that if I understand correctly are soon to be nerfed, as they contain quest targets for the main quest:
Elinhir
Rahni'Za, School of Warriors — A sword academy in south-central Craglorn, west of Belkarth. (map)
The Seeker's Archive — An ancient library in Craglorn. (map)
Shada's Tear — A ruined Nedic city located in western Craglorn, northeast of the Bangkorai Gate. (map)
Skyreach Catacombs — An ancient Nedic crypt located in Upper Craglorn, southeast of Dragonstar. (map)
Skyreach Hold — A ruined Nedic city located in Upper Craglorn, south of Sanctum Ophidia. (map)
Skyreach Pinnacle — A ruined Nedic tower located in Upper Craglorn, east of Dragonstar. (map)
Spellscar — A giant obelisk that crashed to Tamriel, located north of Belkarth. (map)
Balamath — An Ayleid ruin in eastern Craglorn, north of Elinhir. (map)
Buried Sands — A cave in northwestern Craglorn. (map)
Chiselshriek Mine — A mine in northeastern Craglorn. (map)
Exarch's Stronghold — A Nordic ruin in Upper Craglorn. (map)
Fearfangs Cavern — A Nedic ruin in Upper Craglorn. (map)
Haddock's Market — A cave in south-central Craglorn, just east of Belkarth. (map)
Hircine's Haunt — A cave in central Craglorn, north of Belkarth. (map)
The Howling Sepulchers — A set of valleys in Upper Craglorn. (map)
Ilthag's Undertower — A fort in Upper Craglorn. (map)
Loth'Na Caverns — A glade in Upper Craglorn. (map)
Molavar — An Ayleid ruin located west of Elinhir in Lower Craglorn. (map)
Mtharnaz — A Dwemer ruin in southwestern Craglorn, near the Bangkorai Gate. (map)
Rkhardahrk — A group delve found in northern Craglorn, northeast of the Seeker's Archive. (map)
Rkundzelft — A Dwemer city founded by the Rourken clan in eastern Craglorn, just south of the Lake of Teeth. (map)
Ruins of Kardala — An ancient Yokudan tomb in western Lower Craglorn. (map)
Serpent's Nest — A cave in Upper Craglorn. (map)
Tombs of the Na-Totambu — A Yokudan burial ground in southern Craglorn. (map)
Zalgaz's Den — A cave west of Belkarth. (map)
16 of 26 areas are being nerfed. That's the majority of the zone. Honestly as nice as it was to beat the main quest, this ruins most of the zone for me. The areas that have been nerfed so far are extremely easy, I don't feel like I need to try or engage the content in any way, most bosses die in 5 seconds while I'm wearing heavy armor, I can do almost anything and still win.
But I get that you want this zone to be "accessible," and it's likely I'm in the minority here. So I was thinking:
Since the old content was instanced, and the new versions are not, how about an interactable item (tome, statue, whatever) at the beginning of each uninstanced version, that will simply teleport me or a group if I choose to the old instances (with the puzzle changes of course)? This way groups or solo players seeking a challenge can enjoy the content, while leaving the new version of the zone untouched.
Group delves in Craglorn are NO longer instanced (I met other players there and I wasn't grouped) and the difficulty level is like any other delve in the game (very easy).
They are still labeled as group delve on the map though...
Initial observations regarding locations:
- Elinhir is a "Group Area", but its map icon does not have a "+" to indicate this.
- Entering the Elinhir sub-area does not trigger the discovery of the Elinhir POI. (I haven't yet found out what does trigger it, but entering the sub-area should be sufficient.)
- Dragonstar Arena is a group challenge, and is listed as a Trial in both the Leaderboards and the Achievements; this should be indicated on the map and on the loading screen, using the Trial icon (or the Group Instance icon, since it's for 4 players).
- Group Delves:
- 11 of the 18 Group Delves have become standard delves (it is currently unknown whether they are still instanced).
- 7 of the 18 Group Delves are still Group Delves (it is currently unknown whether they are still instanced).
- In line with the above issue regarding The Corrupted Stone and The Shattered and the Lost, the dungeons Hircine's Haunt, Mtharnaz, Rkundzelft, and Ruins of Kardala are still Group Delves, despite being locations required for the Craglorn story. If the story is to be soloable, these delves must no longer be Group Delves.
Group delves in Craglorn are NO longer instanced (I met other players there and I wasn't grouped) and the difficulty level is like any other delve in the game (very easy).
They are still labeled as group delve on the map though...
I am disappointed that Crag is being cookie-cuttered like the rest of the zones. It would be nice to have updated overland group content. CP 160 group content and upgraded rewards would have brought players back. It did not need to be completely nerfed.
I recall Matt Firor talking about about the zone is empty and how he's never been there on the live servers, but during 2014 Crag was packed and a lot of fun. It remained a fairly popular zone until the Orsinium DLC.
A problem ESO now has is that all Overland content is so easy that it's horribly boring and pointless to group when completing it. To me, this is a real problem in an MMO.
I recall Matt Firor talking about about the zone is empty and how he's never been there on the live servers, but during 2014 Crag was packed and a lot of fun. It remained a fairly popular zone until the Orsinium DLC.
ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »Shada's Tear:
- The 2 player puzzle lock can now be solo'd. Yay!
- Muhma the Stinger: I'm pretty sure this is bugged, though I may be missing a mechanic or they may not even be one. When the boss climbs to the ceiling, she randomly hits you with a blockable 20k poison attack with no tell afaik. When this happens, sometimes the boss will "blink" in front of you for a brief second then disappear, but most of the time she's just invisible. I feel like the intended mechanic is she jumps on you and you need to block quickly, or she should be on the ceiling giving some kind of tell, but she isn't breaking invisibility reliably. A similar thing happens when she climbs down, she will remain invisible for ~5 seconds while attacking you, before breaking invisibility and doing her double power attack.
- Shada has 300k health. This is low enough for me to DPS her down by myself before any mechanics happen. This is way too low, especially for content intended for groups. I'd recommend 600k minimum if this is meant to be on the easy side with multiple people. It would also help if the mechanics were triggered by health instead of timed or rng, particularly the mechanic where the Nerieds shield her.
Didn't attempt story quests. No issues with group content, CP531 Magplar, group of 4 but two were outside dueling so was me + a magblade.ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
- Did you encounter any issues while completing zone story quests by yourself?
- Were you able to complete the zone story quests without any help?
- Did you encounter any issues while completing content in a group?
- If so, what level/class were you, and how many group members were in your group?
- How did the overall difficulty feel while in a group or solo?
- Were you able to distinguish solo vs group content?
- Do you have any other general feedback?
This was fixed at some stage though I can't remember when. You needed a group of 4 (find 3 friends from your friends list and guild), but as long as one person of the 4 was at that stage, the entire group could interact with the crystals.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »I recall Matt Firor talking about about the zone is empty and how he's never been there on the live servers, but during 2014 Crag was packed and a lot of fun. It remained a fairly popular zone until the Orsinium DLC.
Your memory is wrong. Back in 2014, everyone was complaining that there was no way to complete the quests without a full group of 4 people - WHO HAD TO BE ON THE SAME QUESTS STAGES. There was ranting all over the place.
Must have been some bad luck on your part. Got both some Martial Knowledge and Air set pieces (including a ring).Shadesofkin wrote: »Now the loot is slightly better (though seriously I farmed for hours and got no Martial Knowledge) and the experience is excellent.
If that's the intent then Craglorn's description should be killed as an 'adventure' zone (compared to the other 15 base non-starter and 3 DLC zones) since it's no more or less dangerous than any other scaled zone at present.Even Matt Firor, the game director, made a joke about how few people ever went to Craglorn... even he had never been there on Live. As it is now, it's a wasted zone that only a tiny few people ever go to, and they want to make the game open to ALL players, including solo players- since the majority of players are solo players. Additionally, the entire One Tamriel is designed "especially for new players", which means players with ZERO or very little CP.
If only - there's people suggesting / wanting the vet dungeons to be kept at a 'CP 160 target' cap tooFor those with high CP, you're going to constantly have it easier, with difficulty cap at CP160... so your only option for 'difficult content' is going to be Veteran Dungeons.
This was fixed at some stage though I can't remember when. You needed a group of 4 (find 3 friends from your friends list and guild), but as long as one person of the 4 was at that stage, the entire group could interact with the crystals.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »I recall Matt Firor talking about about the zone is empty and how he's never been there on the live servers, but during 2014 Crag was packed and a lot of fun. It remained a fairly popular zone until the Orsinium DLC.
Your memory is wrong. Back in 2014, everyone was complaining that there was no way to complete the quests without a full group of 4 people - WHO HAD TO BE ON THE SAME QUESTS STAGES. There was ranting all over the place.
anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Group delves in Craglorn are NO longer instanced (I met other players there and I wasn't grouped) and the difficulty level is like any other delve in the game (very easy).
They are still labeled as group delve on the map though...
???? I was in one of them (the seekers' archive or something like that, the one on the Ibrula Daily) and I found it just as difficult as is it now on live, nearly impossible to solo. Definitely not comparable with "other delves in the game". Either we've two different standards for "difficult", or they've changed something since yesterday, or all delves are not on the same level in Craglorn right now.
EDIT : just read the post right above this one - this seems to explain our discrepancies here. Seeker's archive hasn't been nerfed (yet?). I hope it will be, at least a little. It's a daily quest, aren't dailies meant to be soloable ? Not sure.
Shadesofkin wrote: »
Seeker's Archive wasn't/isn't a Group Delve, it was/is a Group Quest Instance. It seems that all the instances that were for Group Dailies are still designed for groups, and still instanced; not sure how much has changed with those.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »???? I was in one of them (the seekers' archive or something like that, the one on the Ibrula Daily) and I found it just as difficult as is it now on live, nearly impossible to solo. Definitely not comparable with "other delves in the game". Either we've two different standards for "difficult", or they've changed something since yesterday, or all delves are not on the same level in Craglorn right now.
EDIT : just read the post right above this one - this seems to explain our discrepancies here. Seeker's archive hasn't been nerfed (yet?). I hope it will be, at least a little. It's a daily quest, aren't dailies meant to be soloable ? Not sure.
Seeker's Archive wasn't/isn't a Group Delve, it was/is a Group Quest Instance. It seems that all the instances that were for Group Dailies are still designed for groups, and still instanced; not sure how much has changed with those.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »???? I was in one of them (the seekers' archive or something like that, the one on the Ibrula Daily) and I found it just as difficult as is it now on live, nearly impossible to solo. Definitely not comparable with "other delves in the game". Either we've two different standards for "difficult", or they've changed something since yesterday, or all delves are not on the same level in Craglorn right now.
EDIT : just read the post right above this one - this seems to explain our discrepancies here. Seeker's archive hasn't been nerfed (yet?). I hope it will be, at least a little. It's a daily quest, aren't dailies meant to be soloable ? Not sure.
Here's a rundown of different place types:
Group Quest Hubs
The exteriors of these locations are now marked as "Group Areas", and on the map, the icon now has a + on it. The interiors of these locations remain "Group Instances", as they were before, but without any group-required door mechanisms (eg, Shada's).
- Elinhir (POI icon is bugged; discovery doesn't work, "+" is missing from the icon)
- Seeker's Archive
- Spellscar
- Shada's Tear
- Rahni'Za
- Skyreach Catacombs
- Skyreach Hold
- Skyreach Pinnacle
Group Delves
This is a list of everything that was an instanced "Group Delve". Those in italics are no longer Group Delves, and are reportedly no longer instanced. The remainder are still "Group Delves", but it remains unknown whether or not they are still instanced. Four of these (as indicated) should not be Group Delves any more considering they are part of the Craglorn main storyline, and that is supposed to be soloable.
- Balamath
- Buried Sands
- Chiselshriek Mine
- Exarch's Stronghold
- Fearfangs Cavern
- Haddock's Market
- Hircine's Haunt (this is still a Group Delve, but should not be)
- The Howling Sepulchers
- Ilthag's Undertower
- Loth'Na Caverns
- Molavar
- Mtharnaz (this is still a Group Delve, but should not be)
- Rkhardahrk
- Rkundzelft (this is still a Group Delve, but should not be)
- Ruins of Kardala (this is still a Group Delve, but should not be)
- Serpent's Nest
- Tombs of the Na-Totambu
- Zalgaz's Den
As I mentioned before, "Group Delves" should not be instanced, but I think I should further explain the reasoning, as it's not necessarily because I don't want these dungeons to be instanced; it's about labelling and function. One of the features of a "Delve" in ESO is that it's a small dungeon where other players can come along and help out with the enemies. The only difference between a "Delve" and a "Group Delve" should be that the content is designed for more players, just like the newly-labelled "Group Areas" in the overworld are designed for more players. If the Group Delves remain instanced, they should be renamed Group Instances to reflect their function.
In summary:
Keep the name (Group Delves), and they should not be instanced; or
Keep them instanced, and the name (and icon) should be changed (to Group Instances).
All of the Group Delves had Skyshards in them already. This isn't changing. There are no completely new delves, just some of the Group Delves being repurposed into standard Delves.just a quick question, will there be a Skyshard in every of this new delves?
Ah k - never experienced that directly as other than the 4-person thing (which was fixed as you say), I pretty much solo'd the remainder of the content and borrowed a friend for one or two of the bosses.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »This was fixed at some stage though I can't remember when. You needed a group of 4 (find 3 friends from your friends list and guild), but as long as one person of the 4 was at that stage, the entire group could interact with the crystals.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »I recall Matt Firor talking about about the zone is empty and how he's never been there on the live servers, but during 2014 Crag was packed and a lot of fun. It remained a fairly popular zone until the Orsinium DLC.
Your memory is wrong. Back in 2014, everyone was complaining that there was no way to complete the quests without a full group of 4 people - WHO HAD TO BE ON THE SAME QUESTS STAGES. There was ranting all over the place.
It was fixed far later, in 2015, and it didn't remove the need to do the quests in the same order. You could join a group even if you had done the quests already, but if you wanted to advance your own quests, you couldn't do it with someone who was "behind" you in the story quests.
Group Quest Hubs
The exteriors of these locations are now marked as "Group Areas", and on the map, the icon now has a + on it. The interiors of these locations remain "Group Instances", as they were before, but without any group-required door mechanisms (eg, Shada's).
- Spellscar
So that's what that patch note meant. That sounds good, if it's persistent.lordrichter wrote: »As I was wandering around Craglorn today, I came across areas where it announced that I was entering and leaving group areas.
However,... if it only happens once it could be forgotten, but if it happens all the time it could get irritating...
Emma_Overload wrote: »Both are too easy now, in my opinion, as is the rest of Craglorn. I'm glad they removed the forced grouping, but they should keep the difficulty level high to distinguish Craglorn from other zones.
What activity were you doing? Maybe a countdown is necessary, so that if you left the group area, you get 10 seconds to get back in it again.lordrichter wrote: »I would actually like to see ground markings, either some overlay or something in terrain, that would help identify where this area starts and stops.So that's what that patch note meant. That sounds good, if it's persistent.lordrichter wrote: »As I was wandering around Craglorn today, I came across areas where it announced that I was entering and leaving group areas.
However,... if it only happens once it could be forgotten, but if it happens all the time it could get irritating...
Unlike with the dueling zone, there is no advance warning that you will exit a group area, and if you step out, the group activity resets.
The message is nice, but it is not as useful as one would think.
What activity were you doing? Maybe a countdown is necessary, so that if you left the group area, you get 10 seconds to get back in it again.lordrichter wrote: »I would actually like to see ground markings, either some overlay or something in terrain, that would help identify where this area starts and stops.So that's what that patch note meant. That sounds good, if it's persistent.lordrichter wrote: »As I was wandering around Craglorn today, I came across areas where it announced that I was entering and leaving group areas.
However,... if it only happens once it could be forgotten, but if it happens all the time it could get irritating...
Unlike with the dueling zone, there is no advance warning that you will exit a group area, and if you step out, the group activity resets.
The message is nice, but it is not as useful as one would think.
Please, make everything soloable including the "group areas".
Interesting when people talk about how Craglorn was popular in 2014... let's also remember how little new content there was back then, so people had little choice if they wanted to do something new... let's also remember that on Console, Craglorn has NEVER been popular- and ZOS has the data-mining to prove it. So as of now, Craglorn is a large wasted zone that will bring in more players to the zone once it becomes more solo-friendly, especially since an extremely large population, if not the majority, are solo players.
Seems like a good way to do it to me.Shadesofkin wrote: »Interesting when people talk about how Craglorn was popular in 2014... let's also remember how little new content there was back then, so people had little choice if they wanted to do something new... let's also remember that on Console, Craglorn has NEVER been popular- and ZOS has the data-mining to prove it. So as of now, Craglorn is a large wasted zone that will bring in more players to the zone once it becomes more solo-friendly, especially since an extremely large population, if not the majority, are solo players.
And the mix it has on the PTS now is fine for that. Yes, there are swaths that one might not consider "solo friendly" but the main quest is and the vast majority of overland is.
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