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Official Discussion Thread for One Tamriel Craglorn

  • Emma_Overload
    Emma_Overload
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    I just completed the upper and lower crag main quests. I'm happy that I can finally do these without the group puzzles blocking progression.

    Something that concerns me though: I've always loved the challenge of running this zone solo. I find almost all solo content in this game extremely easy, and this was the one of the very few areas where I feel like I need to pay attention and react to whats happening in the fight. When I read that the main quest content was being nerfed to the level of other solo zones, it didn't seem like a big deal, as long as most of the zone was left intact.

    The problem is the "main quest" seems to encompass the majority of Craglorn. Here is a list of areas in Craglorn from UESP, excluding the Trials and DSA. I've bolded the areas that have been nerfed, or that if I understand correctly are soon to be nerfed, as they contain quest targets for the main quest:

    Elinhir
    Rahni'Za, School of Warriors — A sword academy in south-central Craglorn, west of Belkarth. (map)
    The Seeker's Archive — An ancient library in Craglorn. (map)
    Shada's Tear — A ruined Nedic city located in western Craglorn, northeast of the Bangkorai Gate. (map)
    Skyreach Catacombs — An ancient Nedic crypt located in Upper Craglorn, southeast of Dragonstar. (map)
    Skyreach Hold — A ruined Nedic city located in Upper Craglorn, south of Sanctum Ophidia. (map)
    Skyreach Pinnacle — A ruined Nedic tower located in Upper Craglorn, east of Dragonstar. (map)
    Spellscar — A giant obelisk that crashed to Tamriel, located north of Belkarth. (map)
    Balamath — An Ayleid ruin in eastern Craglorn, north of Elinhir. (map)
    Buried Sands — A cave in northwestern Craglorn. (map)
    Chiselshriek Mine — A mine in northeastern Craglorn. (map)
    Exarch's Stronghold — A Nordic ruin in Upper Craglorn. (map)
    Fearfangs Cavern — A Nedic ruin in Upper Craglorn. (map)
    Haddock's Market — A cave in south-central Craglorn, just east of Belkarth. (map)
    Hircine's Haunt — A cave in central Craglorn, north of Belkarth. (map)
    The Howling Sepulchers — A set of valleys in Upper Craglorn. (map)
    Ilthag's Undertower — A fort in Upper Craglorn. (map)
    Loth'Na Caverns — A glade in Upper Craglorn. (map)
    Molavar — An Ayleid ruin located west of Elinhir in Lower Craglorn. (map)
    Mtharnaz — A Dwemer ruin in southwestern Craglorn, near the Bangkorai Gate. (map)
    Rkhardahrk — A group delve found in northern Craglorn, northeast of the Seeker's Archive. (map)
    Rkundzelft — A Dwemer city founded by the Rourken clan in eastern Craglorn, just south of the Lake of Teeth. (map)
    Ruins of Kardala — An ancient Yokudan tomb in western Lower Craglorn. (map)
    Serpent's Nest — A cave in Upper Craglorn. (map)
    Tombs of the Na-Totambu — A Yokudan burial ground in southern Craglorn. (map)
    Zalgaz's Den — A cave west of Belkarth. (map)

    16 of 26 areas are being nerfed. That's the majority of the zone. Honestly as nice as it was to beat the main quest, this ruins most of the zone for me. The areas that have been nerfed so far are extremely easy, I don't feel like I need to try or engage the content in any way, most bosses die in 5 seconds while I'm wearing heavy armor, I can do almost anything and still win.

    But I get that you want this zone to be "accessible," and it's likely I'm in the minority here. So I was thinking:

    Since the old content was instanced, and the new versions are not, how about an interactable item (tome, statue, whatever) at the beginning of each uninstanced version, that will simply teleport me or a group if I choose to the old instances (with the puzzle changes of course)? This way groups or solo players seeking a challenge can enjoy the content, while leaving the new version of the zone untouched.

    I can confirm at least two of those nerfs. Both Loth'Na Caverns and Serpent's Nest are MUCH easier to solo. Loth'Na's boss used to be pretty tough if you couldn't burn him down before his mechanic kicked in, and Serpent's Nest was pretty much impossible unless you knew how to LOS the three Lamia bosses. Not anymore - I killed all those "bosses" within seconds.

    Both are too easy now, in my opinion, as is the rest of Craglorn. I'm glad they removed the forced grouping, but they should keep the difficulty level high to distinguish Craglorn from other zones.
    #CAREBEARMASTERRACE
  • anitajoneb17_ESO
    anitajoneb17_ESO
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    Darlon wrote: »
    Group delves in Craglorn are NO longer instanced (I met other players there and I wasn't grouped) and the difficulty level is like any other delve in the game (very easy).

    They are still labeled as group delve on the map though...

    ???? I was in one of them (the seekers' archive or something like that, the one on the Ibrula Daily) and I found it just as difficult as is it now on live, nearly impossible to solo. Definitely not comparable with "other delves in the game". Either we've two different standards for "difficult", or they've changed something since yesterday, or all delves are not on the same level in Craglorn right now.

    EDIT : just read the post right above this one - this seems to explain our discrepancies here. Seeker's archive hasn't been nerfed (yet?). I hope it will be, at least a little. It's a daily quest, aren't dailies meant to be soloable ? Not sure.

    Edited by anitajoneb17_ESO on September 4, 2016 3:59PM
  • Enodoc
    Enodoc
    Community Ambassador
    Initial observations regarding locations:
    • Elinhir is a "Group Area", but its map icon does not have a "+" to indicate this.
    • Entering the Elinhir sub-area does not trigger the discovery of the Elinhir POI. (I haven't yet found out what does trigger it, but entering the sub-area should be sufficient.)
    • Dragonstar Arena is a group challenge, and is listed as a Trial in both the Leaderboards and the Achievements; this should be indicated on the map and on the loading screen, using the Trial icon (or the Group Instance icon, since it's for 4 players).
    • Group Delves:
      • 11 of the 18 Group Delves have become standard delves (it is currently unknown whether they are still instanced).
      • 7 of the 18 Group Delves are still Group Delves (it is currently unknown whether they are still instanced).
      • In line with the above issue regarding The Corrupted Stone and The Shattered and the Lost, the dungeons Hircine's Haunt, Mtharnaz, Rkundzelft, and Ruins of Kardala are still Group Delves, despite being locations required for the Craglorn story. If the story is to be soloable, these delves must no longer be Group Delves.
    UESP: The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages - A collaborative source for all knowledge on the Elder Scrolls series since 1995
  • Emma_Overload
    Emma_Overload
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    Enodoc wrote: »
    Initial observations regarding locations:
    • Elinhir is a "Group Area", but its map icon does not have a "+" to indicate this.
    • Entering the Elinhir sub-area does not trigger the discovery of the Elinhir POI. (I haven't yet found out what does trigger it, but entering the sub-area should be sufficient.)
    • Dragonstar Arena is a group challenge, and is listed as a Trial in both the Leaderboards and the Achievements; this should be indicated on the map and on the loading screen, using the Trial icon (or the Group Instance icon, since it's for 4 players).
    • Group Delves:
      • 11 of the 18 Group Delves have become standard delves (it is currently unknown whether they are still instanced).
      • 7 of the 18 Group Delves are still Group Delves (it is currently unknown whether they are still instanced).
      • In line with the above issue regarding The Corrupted Stone and The Shattered and the Lost, the dungeons Hircine's Haunt, Mtharnaz, Rkundzelft, and Ruins of Kardala are still Group Delves, despite being locations required for the Craglorn story. If the story is to be soloable, these delves must no longer be Group Delves.

    I don't think they're instanced anymore. I noticed two things when I entered both Loth'Na and Serpent's Nest: 1) The bosses weren't there at first, I had to wait for them to respawn and 2) The trash mobs were on a respawn timer, too, which was never true in the instanced delves.
    #CAREBEARMASTERRACE
  • Shadesofkin
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    Darlon wrote: »
    Group delves in Craglorn are NO longer instanced (I met other players there and I wasn't grouped) and the difficulty level is like any other delve in the game (very easy).

    They are still labeled as group delve on the map though...

    They are not labeled group delve
    @shadesofkin -NA Server.
    Tier 2 Player.
    If you run in Trials and you wonder why you're not doing the sorts of damage you see on youtube videos and on forums, but you reject advice based on extensive testing, claiming "I don't agree" you're the toxic one.
  • zyk
    zyk
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    I am disappointed that Crag is being cookie-cuttered like the rest of the zones. It would be nice to have updated overland group content. CP 160 group content and upgraded rewards would have brought players back. It did not need to be completely nerfed.

    I recall Matt Firor talking about about the zone is empty and how he's never been there on the live servers, but during 2014 Crag was packed and a lot of fun. It remained a fairly popular zone until the Orsinium DLC.

    A problem ESO now has is that all Overland content is so easy that it's horribly boring and pointless to group when completing it. To me, this is a real problem in an MMO.
    Edited by zyk on September 4, 2016 6:03PM
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  • Shadesofkin
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    zyk wrote: »
    I am disappointed that Crag is being cookie-cuttered like the rest of the zones. It would be nice to have updated overland group content. CP 160 group content and upgraded rewards would have brought players back. It did not need to be completely nerfed.

    I recall Matt Firor talking about about the zone is empty and how he's never been there on the live servers, but during 2014 Crag was packed and a lot of fun. It remained a fairly popular zone until the Orsinium DLC.

    A problem ESO now has is that all Overland content is so easy that it's horribly boring and pointless to group when completing it. To me, this is a real problem in an MMO.

    I did Crag like mad during the days of VR10 and VR12. Before the dark times, before the Unlimited.

    In all seriousness, I think Crag as a group zone was always better than as something solo friendly. I loathe how little people seem to recognize the inherent benefit of a zone complete with regular repeatable daily quests for groups. The only problem is that the loot and experience were just absymal. Now the loot is slightly better (though seriously I farmed for hours and got no Martial Knowledge) and the experience is excellent. They just need to add a group finder set up for it.
    @shadesofkin -NA Server.
    Tier 2 Player.
    If you run in Trials and you wonder why you're not doing the sorts of damage you see on youtube videos and on forums, but you reject advice based on extensive testing, claiming "I don't agree" you're the toxic one.
  • anitajoneb17_ESO
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    zyk wrote: »
    I recall Matt Firor talking about about the zone is empty and how he's never been there on the live servers, but during 2014 Crag was packed and a lot of fun. It remained a fairly popular zone until the Orsinium DLC.

    Your memory is wrong. Back in 2014, everyone was complaining that there was no way to complete the quests without a full group of 4 people - WHO HAD TO BE ON THE SAME QUESTS STAGES. There was ranting all over the place.
    Belkarth was popular as a trading hub and the place to be to be recruited for trials. Apart from that, the only reason Craglorn was packed was for Nirncrux hunting. Not for the actual content of the zone - which nearly noones really knows, either because they couldn't do it (no group) or because they rushed through it (you know, groups...)



  • ssewallb14_ESO
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    Shada's Tear:
    • The 2 player puzzle lock can now be solo'd. Yay!
    • Muhma the Stinger: I'm pretty sure this is bugged, though I may be missing a mechanic or they may not even be one. When the boss climbs to the ceiling, she randomly hits you with a blockable 20k poison attack with no tell afaik. When this happens, sometimes the boss will "blink" in front of you for a brief second then disappear, but most of the time she's just invisible. I feel like the intended mechanic is she jumps on you and you need to block quickly, or she should be on the ceiling giving some kind of tell, but she isn't breaking invisibility reliably. A similar thing happens when she climbs down, she will remain invisible for ~5 seconds while attacking you, before breaking invisibility and doing her double power attack.
    • Shada has 300k health. This is low enough for me to DPS her down by myself before any mechanics happen. This is way too low, especially for content intended for groups. I'd recommend 600k minimum if this is meant to be on the easy side with multiple people. It would also help if the mechanics were triggered by health instead of timed or rng, particularly the mechanic where the Nerieds shield her.
  • Emma_Overload
    Emma_Overload
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    Shada's Tear:
    • The 2 player puzzle lock can now be solo'd. Yay!
    • Muhma the Stinger: I'm pretty sure this is bugged, though I may be missing a mechanic or they may not even be one. When the boss climbs to the ceiling, she randomly hits you with a blockable 20k poison attack with no tell afaik. When this happens, sometimes the boss will "blink" in front of you for a brief second then disappear, but most of the time she's just invisible. I feel like the intended mechanic is she jumps on you and you need to block quickly, or she should be on the ceiling giving some kind of tell, but she isn't breaking invisibility reliably. A similar thing happens when she climbs down, she will remain invisible for ~5 seconds while attacking you, before breaking invisibility and doing her double power attack.
    • Shada has 300k health. This is low enough for me to DPS her down by myself before any mechanics happen. This is way too low, especially for content intended for groups. I'd recommend 600k minimum if this is meant to be on the easy side with multiple people. It would also help if the mechanics were triggered by health instead of timed or rng, particularly the mechanic where the Nerieds shield her.

    That puzzle lock could always be solo'd, but it required PERFECT timing. I've only done it twice, and it took over a dozen attempts each time. I'm glad to hear they loosened it up, to be honest, it was such a chore!
    #CAREBEARMASTERRACE
  • Seri
    Seri
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    First the official stuff:
    • Did you encounter any issues while completing zone story quests by yourself?
    • Were you able to complete the zone story quests without any help?
    • Did you encounter any issues while completing content in a group?
      • If so, what level/class were you, and how many group members were in your group?
    • How did the overall difficulty feel while in a group or solo?
    • Were you able to distinguish solo vs group content?
    • Do you have any other general feedback?
    Didn't attempt story quests. No issues with group content, CP531 Magplar, group of 4 but two were outside dueling so was me + a magblade.

    Went into what looked like group delves ('+' icon on map), the bosses seemed to melt fairly quickly. 'Taborra's Camp' triggered a 'entering group area' warning but it got flattened before my group partner could even get there (barely 30s later). Went into the School of Warriors to to test the arena trial and while everything up to the arena, and the pre-boss waves felt weak, the bosses actually felt alright (not hard at our CP but hurt sufficiently and didn't insta-melt). Magical anomalies are good as is - again, not hard for our group but definite interest for me to solo in future.



    zyk wrote: »
    I recall Matt Firor talking about about the zone is empty and how he's never been there on the live servers, but during 2014 Crag was packed and a lot of fun. It remained a fairly popular zone until the Orsinium DLC.

    Your memory is wrong. Back in 2014, everyone was complaining that there was no way to complete the quests without a full group of 4 people - WHO HAD TO BE ON THE SAME QUESTS STAGES. There was ranting all over the place.
    This was fixed at some stage though I can't remember when. You needed a group of 4 (find 3 friends from your friends list and guild), but as long as one person of the 4 was at that stage, the entire group could interact with the crystals.



    Now the loot is slightly better (though seriously I farmed for hours and got no Martial Knowledge) and the experience is excellent.
    Must have been some bad luck on your part. Got both some Martial Knowledge and Air set pieces (including a ring).



    ADarklore wrote: »
    Even Matt Firor, the game director, made a joke about how few people ever went to Craglorn... even he had never been there on Live. As it is now, it's a wasted zone that only a tiny few people ever go to, and they want to make the game open to ALL players, including solo players- since the majority of players are solo players. Additionally, the entire One Tamriel is designed "especially for new players", which means players with ZERO or very little CP.
    If that's the intent then Craglorn's description should be killed as an 'adventure' zone (compared to the other 15 base non-starter and 3 DLC zones) since it's no more or less dangerous than any other scaled zone at present.
    ADarklore wrote: »
    For those with high CP, you're going to constantly have it easier, with difficulty cap at CP160... so your only option for 'difficult content' is going to be Veteran Dungeons.
    If only - there's people suggesting / wanting the vet dungeons to be kept at a 'CP 160 target' cap too :(
    Edited by Seri on September 5, 2016 7:22AM
    EP CP160+ Templar, Sorc, NB
    DC CP160+ Templar, Sorc, DK
  • Qbiken
    Qbiken
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    One Tamriel, making Craglorn a pugzone.....just great :P
    WTB a non-bugged werewolf for at least one patch
    (PC/EU)
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  • anitajoneb17_ESO
    anitajoneb17_ESO
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    Seri wrote: »
    zyk wrote: »
    I recall Matt Firor talking about about the zone is empty and how he's never been there on the live servers, but during 2014 Crag was packed and a lot of fun. It remained a fairly popular zone until the Orsinium DLC.

    Your memory is wrong. Back in 2014, everyone was complaining that there was no way to complete the quests without a full group of 4 people - WHO HAD TO BE ON THE SAME QUESTS STAGES. There was ranting all over the place.
    This was fixed at some stage though I can't remember when. You needed a group of 4 (find 3 friends from your friends list and guild), but as long as one person of the 4 was at that stage, the entire group could interact with the crystals.

    It was fixed far later, in 2015, and it didn't remove the need to do the quests in the same order. You could join a group even if you had done the quests already, but if you wanted to advance your own quests, you couldn't do it with someone who was "behind" you in the story quests.

    Fact is, so far noone ever came to Craglorn for questing. It used to be popular somewhere between january and august 2015 for five reasons :
    - veteran players had nowhere else to go besides Craglorn and Cyrodiil,
    - Nirncrux farming
    - XP grinding (but that was nerfed by ZOS over and over)
    - Trials
    - Crafting writs

    None of those reasons was ever related to questing, and the brillant story along with the wonderful delves were left mostly ignored by everyone.

    Edited by anitajoneb17_ESO on September 5, 2016 8:26AM
  • helediron
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    I enjoyed soloing Craglorn delves at VR14. This new version is disappointment. The delves were instanced. Why can't they stay as instances AND having difficulty level? The delves didn't need this kind of "fix".

    When opening the delve door, let us choose casual/normal/hard/elite difficulty. Normal would be this new level and hard the old difficulty. Casual is for those who shoot light attacks with bow and elite would be challenging for a full experienced group.

    On hiatus. PC,EU,AD - crafting completionist - @helediron 900+ cp, @helestor 1000+ cp, @helestar 800+ cp, @helester 700+ cp - Dragonborn Z Suomikilta, Harrods, Master Crafter. - Blog - Crafthouse: all stations, all munduses, all dummies, open to everyone
  • Darlon
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    Darlon wrote: »
    Group delves in Craglorn are NO longer instanced (I met other players there and I wasn't grouped) and the difficulty level is like any other delve in the game (very easy).

    They are still labeled as group delve on the map though...

    ???? I was in one of them (the seekers' archive or something like that, the one on the Ibrula Daily) and I found it just as difficult as is it now on live, nearly impossible to solo. Definitely not comparable with "other delves in the game". Either we've two different standards for "difficult", or they've changed something since yesterday, or all delves are not on the same level in Craglorn right now.

    EDIT : just read the post right above this one - this seems to explain our discrepancies here. Seeker's archive hasn't been nerfed (yet?). I hope it will be, at least a little. It's a daily quest, aren't dailies meant to be soloable ? Not sure.

    To clarify, I was talking about Haddock's market...
    Darlon wrote: »
    Group delves in Craglorn are NO longer instanced (I met other players there and I wasn't grouped) and the difficulty level is like any other delve in the game (very easy).

    They are still labeled as group delve on the map though...

    They are not labeled group delve

    Correct, that was my bad due to a tooltip from the skyshards addon that still labeled it as 'Group Delve'
  • Enodoc
    Enodoc
    Community Ambassador
    ???? I was in one of them (the seekers' archive or something like that, the one on the Ibrula Daily) and I found it just as difficult as is it now on live, nearly impossible to solo. Definitely not comparable with "other delves in the game". Either we've two different standards for "difficult", or they've changed something since yesterday, or all delves are not on the same level in Craglorn right now.

    EDIT : just read the post right above this one - this seems to explain our discrepancies here. Seeker's archive hasn't been nerfed (yet?). I hope it will be, at least a little. It's a daily quest, aren't dailies meant to be soloable ? Not sure.
    Seeker's Archive wasn't/isn't a Group Delve, it was/is a Group Quest Instance. It seems that all the instances that were for Group Dailies are still designed for groups, and still instanced; not sure how much has changed with those.


    Here's a rundown of different place types:

    Group Quest Hubs
    The exteriors of these locations are now marked as "Group Areas", and on the map, the icon now has a + on it. The interiors of these locations remain "Group Instances", as they were before, but without any group-required door mechanisms (eg, Shada's).
    • Elinhir (POI icon is bugged; discovery doesn't work, "+" is missing from the icon)
    • Seeker's Archive
    • Spellscar
    • Shada's Tear
    • Rahni'Za
    • Skyreach Catacombs
    • Skyreach Hold
    • Skyreach Pinnacle

    Group Delves
    This is a list of everything that was an instanced "Group Delve". Those in italics are no longer Group Delves, and are reportedly no longer instanced. The remainder are still "Group Delves", but it remains unknown whether or not they are still instanced. Four of these (as indicated) should not be Group Delves any more considering they are part of the Craglorn main storyline, and that is supposed to be soloable.
    • Balamath
    • Buried Sands
    • Chiselshriek Mine
    • Exarch's Stronghold
    • Fearfangs Cavern
    • Haddock's Market
    • Hircine's Haunt (this is still a Group Delve, but should not be)
    • The Howling Sepulchers
    • Ilthag's Undertower
    • Loth'Na Caverns
    • Molavar
    • Mtharnaz (this is still a Group Delve, but should not be)
    • Rkhardahrk
    • Rkundzelft (this is still a Group Delve, but should not be)
    • Ruins of Kardala (this is still a Group Delve, but should not be)
    • Serpent's Nest
    • Tombs of the Na-Totambu
    • Zalgaz's Den


    As I mentioned before, "Group Delves" should not be instanced, but I think I should further explain the reasoning, as it's not necessarily because I don't want these dungeons to be instanced; it's about labelling and function. One of the features of a "Delve" in ESO is that it's a small dungeon where other players can come along and help out with the enemies. The only difference between a "Delve" and a "Group Delve" should be that the content is designed for more players, just like the newly-labelled "Group Areas" in the overworld are designed for more players. If the Group Delves remain instanced, they should be renamed Group Instances to reflect their function.

    In summary:
    Keep the name (Group Delves), and they should not be instanced; or
    Keep them instanced, and the name (and icon) should be changed (to Group Instances).
    UESP: The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages - A collaborative source for all knowledge on the Elder Scrolls series since 1995
  • altemriel
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    Enodoc wrote: »
    ???? I was in one of them (the seekers' archive or something like that, the one on the Ibrula Daily) and I found it just as difficult as is it now on live, nearly impossible to solo. Definitely not comparable with "other delves in the game". Either we've two different standards for "difficult", or they've changed something since yesterday, or all delves are not on the same level in Craglorn right now.

    EDIT : just read the post right above this one - this seems to explain our discrepancies here. Seeker's archive hasn't been nerfed (yet?). I hope it will be, at least a little. It's a daily quest, aren't dailies meant to be soloable ? Not sure.
    Seeker's Archive wasn't/isn't a Group Delve, it was/is a Group Quest Instance. It seems that all the instances that were for Group Dailies are still designed for groups, and still instanced; not sure how much has changed with those.


    Here's a rundown of different place types:

    Group Quest Hubs
    The exteriors of these locations are now marked as "Group Areas", and on the map, the icon now has a + on it. The interiors of these locations remain "Group Instances", as they were before, but without any group-required door mechanisms (eg, Shada's).
    • Elinhir (POI icon is bugged; discovery doesn't work, "+" is missing from the icon)
    • Seeker's Archive
    • Spellscar
    • Shada's Tear
    • Rahni'Za
    • Skyreach Catacombs
    • Skyreach Hold
    • Skyreach Pinnacle

    Group Delves
    This is a list of everything that was an instanced "Group Delve". Those in italics are no longer Group Delves, and are reportedly no longer instanced. The remainder are still "Group Delves", but it remains unknown whether or not they are still instanced. Four of these (as indicated) should not be Group Delves any more considering they are part of the Craglorn main storyline, and that is supposed to be soloable.
    • Balamath
    • Buried Sands
    • Chiselshriek Mine
    • Exarch's Stronghold
    • Fearfangs Cavern
    • Haddock's Market
    • Hircine's Haunt (this is still a Group Delve, but should not be)
    • The Howling Sepulchers
    • Ilthag's Undertower
    • Loth'Na Caverns
    • Molavar
    • Mtharnaz (this is still a Group Delve, but should not be)
    • Rkhardahrk
    • Rkundzelft (this is still a Group Delve, but should not be)
    • Ruins of Kardala (this is still a Group Delve, but should not be)
    • Serpent's Nest
    • Tombs of the Na-Totambu
    • Zalgaz's Den


    As I mentioned before, "Group Delves" should not be instanced, but I think I should further explain the reasoning, as it's not necessarily because I don't want these dungeons to be instanced; it's about labelling and function. One of the features of a "Delve" in ESO is that it's a small dungeon where other players can come along and help out with the enemies. The only difference between a "Delve" and a "Group Delve" should be that the content is designed for more players, just like the newly-labelled "Group Areas" in the overworld are designed for more players. If the Group Delves remain instanced, they should be renamed Group Instances to reflect their function.

    In summary:
    Keep the name (Group Delves), and they should not be instanced; or
    Keep them instanced, and the name (and icon) should be changed (to Group Instances).




    just a quick question, will there be a Skyshard in every of this new delves?
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  • Enodoc
    Enodoc
    Community Ambassador
    altemriel wrote: »
    just a quick question, will there be a Skyshard in every of this new delves?
    All of the Group Delves had Skyshards in them already. This isn't changing. There are no completely new delves, just some of the Group Delves being repurposed into standard Delves.

    Edited by Enodoc on September 5, 2016 1:28PM
    UESP: The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages - A collaborative source for all knowledge on the Elder Scrolls series since 1995
  • Seri
    Seri
    ✭✭✭✭
    Seri wrote: »
    zyk wrote: »
    I recall Matt Firor talking about about the zone is empty and how he's never been there on the live servers, but during 2014 Crag was packed and a lot of fun. It remained a fairly popular zone until the Orsinium DLC.

    Your memory is wrong. Back in 2014, everyone was complaining that there was no way to complete the quests without a full group of 4 people - WHO HAD TO BE ON THE SAME QUESTS STAGES. There was ranting all over the place.
    This was fixed at some stage though I can't remember when. You needed a group of 4 (find 3 friends from your friends list and guild), but as long as one person of the 4 was at that stage, the entire group could interact with the crystals.

    It was fixed far later, in 2015, and it didn't remove the need to do the quests in the same order. You could join a group even if you had done the quests already, but if you wanted to advance your own quests, you couldn't do it with someone who was "behind" you in the story quests.
    Ah k - never experienced that directly as other than the 4-person thing (which was fixed as you say), I pretty much solo'd the remainder of the content and borrowed a friend for one or two of the bosses.

    Enodoc wrote: »
    Group Quest Hubs
    The exteriors of these locations are now marked as "Group Areas", and on the map, the icon now has a + on it. The interiors of these locations remain "Group Instances", as they were before, but without any group-required door mechanisms (eg, Shada's).
    • Spellscar

    I'm hoping those group quest hubs aren't made any easier then. I just ran through Spellscar and actually had quite a bit of fun going through there by myself just before.

    Also still happy with the magical anomalies - died on one of them so went and ran 3-person vet Selene HM while it respawned. Pretty simple mechanics still though so once you have that sorted it's easy to avoid the air atro damage.

    (Sidenote, while I'm still semi disappointed the 'veteran hard-mode' dungeons we can do as a trio, I'm still finding them more enjoyable than current live where they feel dead and bland).

    EP CP160+ Templar, Sorc, NB
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  • jcaceresw
    jcaceresw
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    Please, make everything soloable including the "group areas".
  • lordrichter
    lordrichter
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    Enodoc wrote: »
    As I was wandering around Craglorn today, I came across areas where it announced that I was entering and leaving group areas.
    So that's what that patch note meant. That sounds good, if it's persistent.

    However,... if it only happens once it could be forgotten, but if it happens all the time it could get irritating...

    I would actually like to see ground markings, either some overlay or something in terrain, that would help identify where this area starts and stops.

    Unlike with the dueling zone, there is no advance warning that you will exit a group area, and if you step out, the group activity resets.

    The message is nice, but it is not as useful as one would think.
    Both are too easy now, in my opinion, as is the rest of Craglorn. I'm glad they removed the forced grouping, but they should keep the difficulty level high to distinguish Craglorn from other zones.

    I agree that Craglorn seems too easy, and it is probably due to my Champion Points.

    I would welcome them being more creative with the zones by not making them entirely the same. I think it would be nice for some zones, like Craglorn and Coldharbour, to be harder than the typical Tamriel zones.
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  • Enodoc
    Enodoc
    Community Ambassador
    Enodoc wrote: »
    As I was wandering around Craglorn today, I came across areas where it announced that I was entering and leaving group areas.
    So that's what that patch note meant. That sounds good, if it's persistent.

    However,... if it only happens once it could be forgotten, but if it happens all the time it could get irritating...
    I would actually like to see ground markings, either some overlay or something in terrain, that would help identify where this area starts and stops.

    Unlike with the dueling zone, there is no advance warning that you will exit a group area, and if you step out, the group activity resets.

    The message is nice, but it is not as useful as one would think.
    What activity were you doing? Maybe a countdown is necessary, so that if you left the group area, you get 10 seconds to get back in it again.
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  • lordrichter
    lordrichter
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    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Enodoc wrote: »
    Enodoc wrote: »
    As I was wandering around Craglorn today, I came across areas where it announced that I was entering and leaving group areas.
    So that's what that patch note meant. That sounds good, if it's persistent.

    However,... if it only happens once it could be forgotten, but if it happens all the time it could get irritating...
    I would actually like to see ground markings, either some overlay or something in terrain, that would help identify where this area starts and stops.

    Unlike with the dueling zone, there is no advance warning that you will exit a group area, and if you step out, the group activity resets.

    The message is nice, but it is not as useful as one would think.
    What activity were you doing? Maybe a countdown is necessary, so that if you left the group area, you get 10 seconds to get back in it again.

    I accidentally got too close to a Troll at one of the Nirncrux mines and ended up taking on the whole group. Basically, it is the world boss group area.
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  • Jaronking
    Jaronking
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    Unnerfed the XP their and am sure it will be full of players.
  • Seri
    Seri
    ✭✭✭✭
    jcaceresw wrote: »
    Please, make everything soloable including the "group areas".
    I'm hoping that's sarcasm, since it immediately followed my comment :P

    If it's serious, then no, plz no further Craglorn nerfs :disappointed:
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  • Shadesofkin
    Shadesofkin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    jcaceresw wrote: »
    Please, make everything soloable including the "group areas".

    Absolutely terribad idea.
    @shadesofkin -NA Server.
    Tier 2 Player.
    If you run in Trials and you wonder why you're not doing the sorts of damage you see on youtube videos and on forums, but you reject advice based on extensive testing, claiming "I don't agree" you're the toxic one.
  • RocDonald
    RocDonald
    ✭✭✭
    jcaceresw wrote: »
    Please, make everything soloable including the "group areas".
    Yeah, and throw in a nirncrux vendor too :)






    ....lol, jk :D

  • ADarklore
    ADarklore
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    ✭✭✭
    Interesting when people talk about how Craglorn was popular in 2014... let's also remember how little new content there was back then, so people had little choice if they wanted to do something new... let's also remember that on Console, Craglorn has NEVER been popular- and ZOS has the data-mining to prove it. So as of now, Craglorn is a large wasted zone that will bring in more players to the zone once it becomes more solo-friendly, especially since an extremely large population, if not the majority, are solo players.
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  • Shadesofkin
    Shadesofkin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ADarklore wrote: »
    Interesting when people talk about how Craglorn was popular in 2014... let's also remember how little new content there was back then, so people had little choice if they wanted to do something new... let's also remember that on Console, Craglorn has NEVER been popular- and ZOS has the data-mining to prove it. So as of now, Craglorn is a large wasted zone that will bring in more players to the zone once it becomes more solo-friendly, especially since an extremely large population, if not the majority, are solo players.

    And the mix it has on the PTS now is fine for that. Yes, there are swaths that one might not consider "solo friendly" but the main quest is and the vast majority of overland is.
    @shadesofkin -NA Server.
    Tier 2 Player.
    If you run in Trials and you wonder why you're not doing the sorts of damage you see on youtube videos and on forums, but you reject advice based on extensive testing, claiming "I don't agree" you're the toxic one.
  • UrQuan
    UrQuan
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ADarklore wrote: »
    Interesting when people talk about how Craglorn was popular in 2014... let's also remember how little new content there was back then, so people had little choice if they wanted to do something new... let's also remember that on Console, Craglorn has NEVER been popular- and ZOS has the data-mining to prove it. So as of now, Craglorn is a large wasted zone that will bring in more players to the zone once it becomes more solo-friendly, especially since an extremely large population, if not the majority, are solo players.

    And the mix it has on the PTS now is fine for that. Yes, there are swaths that one might not consider "solo friendly" but the main quest is and the vast majority of overland is.
    Seems like a good way to do it to me.
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