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Any ETA on that IC pop not contributing to cyro?

fastolfv_ESO
fastolfv_ESO
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Title says it all, seems it was promised when DB hit and now we have this horrible ill conceived event giving cyro Q's of 40+ so pvers can flood IC. Im not saying zenimax is oblivious to the issue but it sure seems that way stuffing as many people as possible in cyro, most of which will not be pvping
  • anitajoneb17_ESO
    anitajoneb17_ESO
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    Can't remember them promising it. Maybe they have, but I doubt it.

  • Beardimus
    Beardimus
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    Problem is where would you go on leaving Imp City? Into a queue? How would it work? Do you went AP removing from Imp City? And if you think anyone is PvEing in Imp City right now you wanna take a look, its swarming!! Best full scale PvP around.
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  • God_flakes
    God_flakes
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    Title says it all, seems it was promised when DB hit and now we have this horrible ill conceived event giving cyro Q's of 40+ so pvers can flood IC. Im not saying zenimax is oblivious to the issue but it sure seems that way stuffing as many people as possible in cyro, most of which will not be pvping

    When my group insisted on going down there for that I dropped. DC is finally ahead and people want to go goof off in IC and for what? Double telvar? Who cares?! I also would like an answer as to when Ic and sewer will have its own population. The implementation of these things have not broken up zergs or contributed in any way to campaigns. They're more pve as far as I am concerned. Give them their own pop meter already.
    ~Every single night and every single day, I'mma do my thang, I'mma do my thang.~
  • TheDefiantOne
    TheDefiantOne
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    I hate to break it to you but, last night was actually a lot of fun in IC. Probably most fun i had in there since it launched. An organized small man sized group could gather a lot of stones while fighting raid sized groups or other small man sized groups... we even killed bosses and mobs ! I actually felt that IC last night was played the way it was meant to be played... if more pvp experienced players and groups would join, we could have awesome fights... given the fact that the map in there is meant for fast movement and use of terrain.
  • Sallington
    Sallington
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    There's not enough space at ZOS headquarters for all of the salt there would be from PvEers if there was more PvP in IC.
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  • God_flakes
    God_flakes
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    I hate to break it to you but, last night was actually a lot of fun in IC. Probably most fun i had in there since it launched. An organized small man sized group could gather a lot of stones while fighting raid sized groups or other small man sized groups... we even killed bosses and mobs ! I actually felt that IC last night was played the way it was meant to be played... if more pvp experienced players and groups would join, we could have awesome fights... given the fact that the map in there is meant for fast movement and use of terrain.

    Hate to break it to you but IC is BORING. A lot of us don't give a rip about those stupid stones. To me it's one big boring circle of pve trash mobs and annoying bosses. It should not share a pop with up top. Or at the very least have some purpose to the campaign up top giving people a real reason to care about it. But stones and stupid blue items that clog your inventory? Not enough reason to pull me from the action above. And at the very least they should alter the pop bar icon to reflect how many are down there. It is super annoying to go into Cyrodill and find it an echo chamber but yet the icon claims you're pop-locked. It's misleading and very aggravating to those trying to form groups.
    ~Every single night and every single day, I'mma do my thang, I'mma do my thang.~
  • asneakybanana
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    ZoS never promised anything about IC having its own campaign. There was talk of all the campaigns merging into one when you went to IC but they could never figure out how to make it work efficiently from what I heard. And while yes having a reduced queue would be nice I enjoy having IC as a part of the campaigns as it allows you to get away from the laggy garbage zergs up top from time to time and actually get some decent small scale. They just need to make some way to tie IC into cyrodiil using the flags that are in there. Maybe owning all 6 districts gives you a damage boost or something, idk but it would be cool to see IC actually count for something not just a TV stone bonus while in the districts.
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  • Rage_Killin
    Rage_Killin
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    No ETA
  • fastolfv_ESO
    fastolfv_ESO
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    They never promised a campaign for it they promised to have it just not count toward total pop, i can only assume they planned to have a direct port in. I got bored last night and went down there and it wasnt much different from cyro, grp of 20 ep ran around we killed em with 6 they picked up another 10+ and roamed the district as a megazerg. AD sat in the center with a raid and change, ironically one of my guys went hey theres my raiding guild huddled together in a big pve zerg right at molag. It was still the same crap every alliance huddled in a swarm, i can fight the same thing up top but now we get to deal with the cyro population seriously split so it can have a 40 man Q with nothing to fight up top
  • God_flakes
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    They never promised a campaign for it they promised to have it just not count toward total pop, i can only assume they planned to have a direct port in. I got bored last night and went down there and it wasnt much different from cyro, grp of 20 ep ran around we killed em with 6 they picked up another 10+ and roamed the district as a megazerg. AD sat in the center with a raid and change, ironically one of my guys went hey theres my raiding guild huddled together in a big pve zerg right at molag. It was still the same crap every alliance huddled in a swarm, i can fight the same thing up top but now we get to deal with the cyro population seriously split so it can have a 40 man Q with nothing to fight up top

    ^^^^

    Spot on.
    ~Every single night and every single day, I'mma do my thang, I'mma do my thang.~
  • Lucius_Aelius
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    It should absolutely be it's own separate instance with connections to it from PvE and a Queue if you try to go from it into a full campaign, that's how it should always have been. It's ridiculous frankly that they ever added it in the manner that they did, it's like they were trying to go out of their way to mess up the population levels in the actual campaign as much as they possibly could, as if people being in Cyrodiil doing delves/questing/Skyshards and not participating wasn't bad enough to begin with (which it wasn't bad at all compared to how bad it is having the Imperial City share a population cap with the actual campaign, now it's just so much worse, anyone not participating in activities that help their team win should not be counted towards the population cap, period).
    Edited by Lucius_Aelius on August 30, 2016 7:31PM
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  • Robbmrp
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    This would be a bonus for sure. Just because you enter IC from a certain Campaign doesn't mean that you should count as a player within it while there. This gimps the faction who's up there fighting to hold onto their keeps and resources when everyone is in IC.
    NA Server - Kildair
  • Minno
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    It just needs it's score and district mechanics attached to pvp alliance war score.

    Then we can talk about how pop is distributed.
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
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  • God_flakes
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    At a minimum they could confine IC entry to one character on your account and a hefty cost to change it to another character. This would at least minimize the amount of people logging on to Alts to go into IC. I can't believe zos didn't foresee that people would deliberately do that considering they made IC absolutely objective-less.
    ~Every single night and every single day, I'mma do my thang, I'mma do my thang.~
  • God_flakes
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    Minno wrote: »
    It just needs it's score and district mechanics attached to pvp alliance war score.

    Then we can talk about how pop is distributed.

    Ideas? Because that flag capturing down there is nothing more than digital ring around the rosy. It's a BORE. And it won't stop people from logging on their Alts merely to kill bosses and other players here and there and tie up the queue.
    ~Every single night and every single day, I'mma do my thang, I'mma do my thang.~
  • Minno
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    God_flakes wrote: »
    Minno wrote: »
    It just needs it's score and district mechanics attached to pvp alliance war score.

    Then we can talk about how pop is distributed.

    Ideas? Because that flag capturing down there is nothing more than digital ring around the rosy. It's a BORE. And it won't stop people from logging on their Alts merely to kill bosses and other players here and there and tie up the queue.

    We gave plenty in other threads. Also zos had another idea where in order to capture the flag you were teleported to another zone that looked like coldharbor to fight a boss. Then transported back.
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
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  • God_flakes
    God_flakes
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    Minno wrote: »
    God_flakes wrote: »
    Minno wrote: »
    It just needs it's score and district mechanics attached to pvp alliance war score.

    Then we can talk about how pop is distributed.

    Ideas? Because that flag capturing down there is nothing more than digital ring around the rosy. It's a BORE. And it won't stop people from logging on their Alts merely to kill bosses and other players here and there and tie up the queue.

    We gave plenty in other threads. Also zos had another idea where in order to capture the flag you were teleported to another zone that looked like coldharbor to fight a boss. Then transported back.

    Right. More obnoxious pve in PVP areas. <screaming internally>

    If I wanted to fight bosses and trash mobs I would go to Coldharbour. Better yet I would play Skyrim. I bought this freaking game to play against other people and in teams against teams. You know where you can stick your IC bosses.
    ~Every single night and every single day, I'mma do my thang, I'mma do my thang.~
  • Lucius_Aelius
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    Minno wrote: »
    God_flakes wrote: »
    Minno wrote: »
    It just needs it's score and district mechanics attached to pvp alliance war score.

    Then we can talk about how pop is distributed.

    Ideas? Because that flag capturing down there is nothing more than digital ring around the rosy. It's a BORE. And it won't stop people from logging on their Alts merely to kill bosses and other players here and there and tie up the queue.

    We gave plenty in other threads. Also zos had another idea where in order to capture the flag you were teleported to another zone that looked like coldharbor to fight a boss. Then transported back.

    In order for Imperial City to remain part of the outside campaign, each and every thing that players do both in the city above and the sewers below would have to contribute directly and significantly to the success of those players' teams in the campaign, and also have a direct transit shrine connection to the outside so that it's actually properly integrated. Right now even if doing things in the city helped win the campaign, having it be segmented from the rest of the war effort prevents it from receiving the same sort of attention that Keeps and Scrolls receive now.

    There is no room for middle ground, it either needs to be fully integrated with every aspect of gameplay in the city contributing to victory in a significant way, or it needs to be entirely separate in its own instance with no connection to the outside campaigns or their populations whatsoever, nothing else could ever possibly be practical.
    Edited by Lucius_Aelius on August 30, 2016 8:52PM
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  • Minno
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    Minno wrote: »
    God_flakes wrote: »
    Minno wrote: »
    It just needs it's score and district mechanics attached to pvp alliance war score.

    Then we can talk about how pop is distributed.

    Ideas? Because that flag capturing down there is nothing more than digital ring around the rosy. It's a BORE. And it won't stop people from logging on their Alts merely to kill bosses and other players here and there and tie up the queue.

    We gave plenty in other threads. Also zos had another idea where in order to capture the flag you were teleported to another zone that looked like coldharbor to fight a boss. Then transported back.

    In order for Imperial City to remain part of the outside campaign, each and every thing that players do both in the city above and the sewers below would have to contribute directly and significantly to the success of those players' teams in the campaign, and also have a direct transit shrine connection to the outside so that it's actually properly integrated. Right now even if doing things in the city helped win the campaign, having it be segmented from the rest of the war effort prevents it from receiving the same sort of attention that Keeps and Scrolls receive now.

    There is no room for middle ground, it either needs to be fully integrated with every aspect of gameplay in the city contributing to victory in a significant way, or it needs to be entirely separate in its own instance with no connection to the outside campaigns or their populations whatsoever, nothing else could ever possibly be practical.

    We gave them ideas to integrate.
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • God_flakes
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    Nothing irks me more than heading to south Highrock to turn in a bounty and log for the night and I see 12 AD on their DC alts...and I know darn well they're headed to the sewers or city. And why not? They get a twofer-clogging up OUR queue (leaving their side more room) and earning those silly stones and Cp to boot. No wonder there are times when we have a poplock and people waiting on queue and we make calls to defend Glade from Ad and 5 DC show up. :|
    ~Every single night and every single day, I'mma do my thang, I'mma do my thang.~
  • Lucius_Aelius
    Lucius_Aelius
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    Minno wrote: »
    Minno wrote: »
    God_flakes wrote: »
    Minno wrote: »
    It just needs it's score and district mechanics attached to pvp alliance war score.

    Then we can talk about how pop is distributed.

    Ideas? Because that flag capturing down there is nothing more than digital ring around the rosy. It's a BORE. And it won't stop people from logging on their Alts merely to kill bosses and other players here and there and tie up the queue.

    We gave plenty in other threads. Also zos had another idea where in order to capture the flag you were teleported to another zone that looked like coldharbor to fight a boss. Then transported back.

    In order for Imperial City to remain part of the outside campaign, each and every thing that players do both in the city above and the sewers below would have to contribute directly and significantly to the success of those players' teams in the campaign, and also have a direct transit shrine connection to the outside so that it's actually properly integrated. Right now even if doing things in the city helped win the campaign, having it be segmented from the rest of the war effort prevents it from receiving the same sort of attention that Keeps and Scrolls receive now.

    There is no room for middle ground, it either needs to be fully integrated with every aspect of gameplay in the city contributing to victory in a significant way, or it needs to be entirely separate in its own instance with no connection to the outside campaigns or their populations whatsoever, nothing else could ever possibly be practical.

    We gave them ideas to integrate.

    How about posting a link? It's one thing for you to vaguely suggest it should be integrated but specifics matter, and unless it's seamlessly and completely integrated with each and every single thing that players do (besides standing still or running in circles) contributing directly and significantly towards victory then it's not good enough and it should just be separated.

    And frankly I just don't see the point of having it be integrated, they're such wildly different types of gameplay it makes more sense to have them be separated completely from each other.
    Edited by Lucius_Aelius on August 30, 2016 9:07PM
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  • zyk
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    Cyrodiil and IC offer completely different gameplay experiences. It makes no sense for them to be connected in any way.

    I understand it is convenient for some who enjoy switching between the two to avoid queues on poplocked servers, however I think the benefits to an independent Cyrodiil outweigh the benefits to these players.

    Some benefits of decoupling IC and Cyrodiil would be:

    - a more accurate estimate of server populations; we presently have no way of knowing how many players are active in either Cyrodiil or IC at any given time.
    - better balanced populations; large guilds hold IC raid nights which can have a significant population balance impact in Cyrodiil; the reverse can be true in IC; even outside of these raid nights, IC is always a random factor in Cyrodiil's population.
    - A removal of the need to travel through Cyrodiil to access IC; this is a pointless, inconvenient step for IC players; this better positions IC as an option for players looking for a quickly accessed PVP experience.

    @ZOS_BrianWheeler has stated they are working on doing this. I hope it happens soon.
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  • RinaldoGandolphi
    RinaldoGandolphi
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    They don't need to decouple IC it needs to be integrated. It makes no sense the capital of Cyrodiil counts for zilch on the leaderboards this could be easily fixed:

    1 each captured district counts as 1 keep + 3 resources on the campaign score board.
    2. A Tel var leaderboard is established just like AP whomever earns the most total tel var stones will sit at the top of the board.
    3. If all 6 districts are controlled by one faction the top tel var earning player of that faction becomes "The Usurper" and he is given the same stat buffs as Emp inside IC only but he conveys the same bonus to his faction as EMP does both up top and inside. He is removed by taking 5 of the 6 districts away from him.
    4. You lock the gates to the IC on all campaigns and require 5 out of 6 ring keeps to unlock them.
    5. The more districts you hold the more score tick bonus it adds with each district adding +10 bonus points.

    This makes IC important and also gives us more objectives besides keeps to fight over. It also helps with the population imbalance issues as well. You can't Zerg both IC and up top at the same time. It will make for more balanced PVP in both places
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  • Minno
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    They don't need to decouple IC it needs to be integrated. It makes no sense the capital of Cyrodiil counts for zilch on the leaderboards this could be easily fixed:

    1 each captured district counts as 1 keep + 3 resources on the campaign score board.
    2. A Tel var leaderboard is established just like AP whomever earns the most total tel var stones will sit at the top of the board.
    3. If all 6 districts are controlled by one faction the top tel var earning player of that faction becomes "The Usurper" and he is given the same stat buffs as Emp inside IC only but he conveys the same bonus to his faction as EMP does both up top and inside. He is removed by taking 5 of the 6 districts away from him.
    4. You lock the gates to the IC on all campaigns and require 5 out of 6 ring keeps to unlock them.
    5. The more districts you hold the more score tick bonus it adds with each district adding +10 bonus points.

    This makes IC important and also gives us more objectives besides keeps to fight over. It also helps with the population imbalance issues as well. You can't Zerg both IC and up top at the same time. It will make for more balanced PVP in both places

    Thanks, Rin. I was going to link your post from that IC thread. There are a few other good ideas there too.
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
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  • God_flakes
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    I think we all know they're not gonna do any of that. The best we can hope for is for them to make it a separate instance and let people continue to farm those dumb stones to their heart's content.

    But it all makes me wonder how the precious pve'ers would like it if we pvp'ers smashed their pve only areas and interrupted their playstyle. I'm sure they wouldn't like it one bit. And that's basically all some of us are trying to say. Enough pve in our pvp areas! Stop trying to coerce, entice or otherwise force us to Pve. Stop trying to distract our fellow pvp'ers from campaign objectives.
    Edited by God_flakes on August 31, 2016 12:04AM
    ~Every single night and every single day, I'mma do my thang, I'mma do my thang.~
  • Xsorus
    Xsorus
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    It could end up being its own separate instance at this point and not counting towards the Main Cyrodiil population.

    The reason it was setup like that in the first place because IC was suppose to work likes Darkness Falls from DAOC in which whoever held the most keeps gain access to IC. What would happen is the faction who was currently winning would have some of its population siphoned off into IC and then the other two factions could retake lost keeps. However when they just opened it up full time it really makes little sense to have it share population with the overland Map as its original intent has been removed.
  • Lucius_Aelius
    Lucius_Aelius
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    They don't need to decouple IC it needs to be integrated. It makes no sense the capital of Cyrodiil counts for zilch on the leaderboards this could be easily fixed:

    1 each captured district counts as 1 keep + 3 resources on the campaign score board.
    2. A Tel var leaderboard is established just like AP whomever earns the most total tel var stones will sit at the top of the board.
    3. If all 6 districts are controlled by one faction the top tel var earning player of that faction becomes "The Usurper" and he is given the same stat buffs as Emp inside IC only but he conveys the same bonus to his faction as EMP does both up top and inside. He is removed by taking 5 of the 6 districts away from him.
    4. You lock the gates to the IC on all campaigns and require 5 out of 6 ring keeps to unlock them.
    5. The more districts you hold the more score tick bonus it adds with each district adding +10 bonus points.

    This makes IC important and also gives us more objectives besides keeps to fight over. It also helps with the population imbalance issues as well. You can't Zerg both IC and up top at the same time. It will make for more balanced PVP in both places

    As others have said, Imperial City is just too different a playstyle for it to mesh well with the outside campaign, and your ideas frankly sound horribly imbalanced to me and not the least bit helpful for anyone besides whichever Zerg is larger. For one thing there is just too much PvE in Imperial City, it's okay for its own instance but Imperial City style play was and is absolutely not what I signed up for, the Alliance War is a strictly PvP thing with only minimal non-player combatants on resources and the like. Sieging keeps and taking scrolls is what this game's AvA war was and is all about, and it should stay that way.

    And have you seen Imperial City lately? That place is an absolute mess, overrun by Daedra and rogue Imperials, and it makes absolutely no sense that anyone could be considered as controlling it without it being cleaned up and not have Daedra all over. Just because you happen to control a few flags, you think that should count the same as an Emperor for their team? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard, controlling a few flags with no walls around them that takes so little effort and also still leaves the entire actual city under Daedra control means nothing, you can't be said to control *** without wiping the Daedra out completely, anything else is nonsense. That's like saying you should control a Keep if every NPC inside the keep were a Daedra, that is nonsense, you don't control *** unless your soldiers are completely in control.

    Trying to mesh Imperial Ctiy together with the outside campaign would require that Imperial City be completely redesigned and the Daedra completely removed, with the walls and doors of the districts needing to be sieged down like anywhere else. Basically turn each District into it's own keep, and if you don't control a district you can't enter it at all without sieging into it. And the only NPC's being Soldiers from the Alliance who controls it, again it makes no sense for anyone to be said to be controlling anything so long as the Daedra are everywhere, they're the ones in control not us and you're a damn fool if you think otherwise.

    Also, nothing like Tel Var Stones has any business affecting PvP like you suggest with a leaderboard and the top guy getting buffs against other players, not when Tel Var stones are primarily obtained by killing PvE enemies and/or Ganking players who fought lots of PvE enemies themselves, and no one deserves to get any standing in PvP for being good at Ganking or fighting PvE enemies.

    And that doesn't even touch the Sewers, I have no idea what could be done with them frankly because PvE with a bit of PvP is what the Sewers are all about, and you can't really change them significantly without ruining them for the people who like them now. You can't siege anything from down there so there can't be connections to the districts without causing imbalance in the fight above, no point sieging anything if you can just pop up anywhere you want through the sewers and rush any district that way. And taking away the Daedra would defeat the point of them being there, there would basically be nothing to do down there besides the occasional skirmish.

    And you need something that can be accomplished in the sewers because that's where most people in Imperial City go, and if they're not accomplishing objectives that contribute to winning then they're once again just taking up space and gimping their team above. And again you're not really controlling anything as long as the Daedra are everywhere, so they'd need to be removed for anyone to be able to say that they control the city. The Imperial City was an interesting idea and I don't think that style of play should just be removed, but it certainly shouldn't be connected in any way to the War at large in anything remotely resembling its current form.

    The fact is that so long as the city is overrun with Daedra it makes perfect sense for it to be separate from the War, it was never more than a symbol anyway. Controlling the land around it is what makes someone an Emperor, which is why ZOS made it work the way they did with taking the keeps around it. The Daedra only took it over because it was relatively undefended because of the chaos after Varen did his thing, and it's the center of Tamriel with walls and a moat around it, what better place for Molag Bal to use as a base of operations for enacting his plan to suck the world into Coldharbour from? And frankly even if they implemented every change I suggested, having more things that people need to pay attention to could well only serve to divide our forces and limit our ability to fight everywhere else, so your suggestion about locking access to the city is especially ill-conceived.

    It needs to be freely accessed by Transit Shrine from any keep adjacent to the city, locking access without controlling 5 of the surrounding keeps just ensures that fewer people will go there since accessing it is so difficult, and also ensure that the war effort is that much more imbalanced because all anyone needs to do is stop the enemy team from controlling 5 keeps and they won't be able to access the city at all. That would ensure greater imbalance, not less, if anything in the city afforded any benefit to the players controlling it.

    All of this just sounds like too much effort for too little reward, especially since the changes required to make the city a proper part of the fight would ruin the city for those who like it as it is, and I frankly do like it as it is, just not that it shares a population with the outside campaign. It's an interesting place and don't think it should change, just be made the separate place with separate gameplay that it always should have been, and all the better for people who aren't interested in AvA but who still like to do some PvP with PvE thrown in.
    Daggerfall Covenant - Scourge (Xbox NA) - GT: Lucius Aelius - Lord - 648CP
    Lucius Aelius Aurelius - 50 Imperial Dragonknight - Centurion - Stam Tank
    Lucius Aelius Valerius - 50 Imperial Templar - Lieutenant - Mag Heal/DPS
    Lucius Aelius Regulus - 50 Imperial Nightblade - First Sergeant - Stam DPS
    Lucius Aelius Augustus - 50 Imperial Sorcerer - Corporal - Mag DPS
    Wags-His-Tail - 20 Argonian Sorcerer - Recruit - TBD
    Holds-The-Line - 40 Argonian Dragonknight - Recruit - TBD
    Carries-Extra-Gear - 4 Argonian Dragonknight - Recruit - TBD
    Guildmaster - Wardens of the Covenant
    Group Leader - xpThe Guildxp
    Trader - Secret Sauce
    Trader - Elite Dungeoneers
  • KisoValley
    KisoValley
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    You can tell 1 person on this thread REALLY hates IC
    EU PC
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  • Lucius_Aelius
    Lucius_Aelius
    ✭✭✭✭
    KisoValley wrote: »
    You can tell 1 person on this thread REALLY hates IC

    If you mean me, I love Imperial City, I was in there just last night and always have fun down there, doesn't mean I want it imbalancing the AvAvA war outside by taking up essential population space.
    Daggerfall Covenant - Scourge (Xbox NA) - GT: Lucius Aelius - Lord - 648CP
    Lucius Aelius Aurelius - 50 Imperial Dragonknight - Centurion - Stam Tank
    Lucius Aelius Valerius - 50 Imperial Templar - Lieutenant - Mag Heal/DPS
    Lucius Aelius Regulus - 50 Imperial Nightblade - First Sergeant - Stam DPS
    Lucius Aelius Augustus - 50 Imperial Sorcerer - Corporal - Mag DPS
    Wags-His-Tail - 20 Argonian Sorcerer - Recruit - TBD
    Holds-The-Line - 40 Argonian Dragonknight - Recruit - TBD
    Carries-Extra-Gear - 4 Argonian Dragonknight - Recruit - TBD
    Guildmaster - Wardens of the Covenant
    Group Leader - xpThe Guildxp
    Trader - Secret Sauce
    Trader - Elite Dungeoneers
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