Is Engine Guardian Still Viable?

Ch4mpTW

With all of the updates focusing more and more toward raw damage outputs, and less and less about resource management (unless you're stamina-based lol) — is the Engine Guardian 2pcs. monster set still viable in "end-game" PVE? Let alone maybe competitive PVP?

mildlylucid

Unless you're a tank, the resource is probably going to be useless at least 1/3 of the time. The set is decent if you have trouble with running out of resources frequently. Other than that there are other sets, depending on your build, that will be more beneficial.

What I'm trying to say is you can use it, and it could be useful to you, but it's not the best by a longshot.

Dracane

It has always been great and it always will.
It's the best sustain set and only requires 2 slots. I see so many people using it in pvp.

Only downside is, that an intelligent player will stun your guardian in the right moment.

Doctordarkspawn

For tanks, there is no better monster helm set. There are much better deals than bloodspawn nowadays and engine guardian is one of them.

For DPS, Stam, Velindreth is reigning champ right now. For magicka and healers, there's basicly nothing else but engine guardian for them, really.

As for the game being designed toward damage output, while that has been the case, we are seeing a brutal and grinding halt for it with DB and shadows of the hist. With the introduction of cost increase poisons, and resource drain mechanics, sustain is now more valueable than ever, and with the cost increase changes with DB, it's become harder to do requiring more and more focus to accomplish. (And CP for that matter.)

What I'm saying is, it's entirely valid and logical to build for sustain. It's entirely logical and valid to use engine guardian still. I see alot of templar DPS use it, I see alot of tanks use it over bloodspawn nowadays, Sustain is becoming slowly more important than raw DPS.

I speak mostly from a PVE perspective, so take that for what you will.

Ashamray

I don't often see users of this set. It can be interrupted, it can proc something that you don't want, it has useless first bonus.
But I like it on my support role, combo with Repentance is great.

OutLaw_Nynx

I love my Engine Guardian. I use it mostly in pvp on my Stam DK which I use both magicka and Stam moves like my shield and flappy wings so it's a decent set for me.

BigBragg

I pvp in no cp with it on my stam sorc. It can be a life saver, especially since any of the three procs can be useful for the class.

Destruent

endgame-pve-wise tanks will use bloodpsawn (more warhorns), DPS will use skoria/kena/nerieneth/velidreth/none and healers will use no monsterset. But that's nothing new and hasn't changed since 1.6 (only adding new monstersets).
I only like engine guardian for tanking random groups or dailys, bc i don't have to worry about ressources and warhorns are sometimes only wasted in such groups

Qbiken

You misspelled Deltia guardian

TheDarkoil

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

For tanks, there is no better monster helm set. There are much better deals than bloodspawn nowadays and engine guardian is one of them.

For DPS, Stam, Velindreth is reigning champ right now. For magicka and healers, there's basicly nothing else but engine guardian for them, really.

As for the game being designed toward damage output, while that has been the case, we are seeing a brutal and grinding halt for it with DB and shadows of the hist. With the introduction of cost increase poisons, and resource drain mechanics, sustain is now more valueable than ever, and with the cost increase changes with DB, it's become harder to do requiring more and more focus to accomplish. (And CP for that matter.)

What I'm saying is, it's entirely valid and logical to build for sustain. It's entirely logical and valid to use engine guardian still. I see alot of templar DPS use it, I see alot of tanks use it over bloodspawn nowadays, Sustain is becoming slowly more important than raw DPS.

I speak mostly from a PVE perspective, so take that for what you will.

I'm mage pure dps and Velidrith is a beast, standard damage is 8 -13k, crits in 20k or above range. Fair enough the first trait is useless for mage but the trade off for the damage is too good to pass off.

Doctordarkspawn

There's also the new undaunted helm sets coming next update, and while I doubt they'll be anything truely gamechanging, theres still a chance even engine guardian may become obsolete. We'll see.

Peekachu99

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

For tanks, there is no better monster helm set. There are much better deals than bloodspawn nowadays and engine guardian is one of them.

For DPS, Stam, Velindreth is reigning champ right now. For magicka and healers, there's basicly nothing else but engine guardian for them, really.

As for the game being designed toward damage output, while that has been the case, we are seeing a brutal and grinding halt for it with DB and shadows of the hist. With the introduction of cost increase poisons, and resource drain mechanics, sustain is now more valueable than ever, and with the cost increase changes with DB, it's become harder to do requiring more and more focus to accomplish. (And CP for that matter.)

What I'm saying is, it's entirely valid and logical to build for sustain. It's entirely logical and valid to use engine guardian still. I see alot of templar DPS use it, I see alot of tanks use it over bloodspawn nowadays, Sustain is becoming slowly more important than raw DPS.

I speak mostly from a PVE perspective, so take that for what you will.

I would argue that tanks shouldn't have sustain issues, or they're likely to wipe the group. I run three tanks--Temp, NB, DK--and none of them use engine guardian. Each of them can solo or hold against almost every vet (and some trial) bosses and/or mobs. A temp tank using jabs and retribution can proc Bogdans every 10-15s, for example--and it's a set resource with an obvious tell that I, or others, just have to stand in. Malubeth's is another good one, or Warden's (since the buff) for group utility.

With Engine Guardian, I've found that the randomness of the resource, in practical situations, outweighs the utility. Besides, most tanks are focused on one type resource for heals, taunts, shields, CC, whatever, and replenishing that one resource takes precedence over possibly replenishing it or two that you don't need.

For DPS, actually, it might be more useful since a lot run like glass cannons, spamming abilities and weaving and they might find that randomness better for "oh crap" moment where they go "oomph", stand in red, or have to unexpectedly roll away/ block.

On the topic of sustain for tanks, Willows Path is a critically overlooked set. Just my anecdotes. I'm not saying Engine Guardian a bad set, just that there are better ones once you streamline your build. It's a great starter set, though.

P.S. Totally agree with you on the shift to a sustain meta--and it's great. ESO was seriously at risk of turning into DCUO.

Saint_Bud

As none dk tank it can be an option, but in good groups you will have the ressurce support and bloodspawn will better. Also for pvp. Its no choise for dd and healers in pve

Lightninvash

My personal Opinion about it is it is great. I generally don't have too much issue with resource management however, I love it when a group of mobs or a boss targets me and it pops up for health or when I roll out of an area a few times and it pops out for stamina and I get full Stam.

I generally use DW and resto staff combo so I don't have to rely on it to regen stam but it is nice not having to weave a weak heavy attack to get stamina back to break free or roll.

FailSaucePro

I don't think it should be used at all for healers or damage dealers in pve, and only one occasion for tanks (velidreth) unless your group is terrible. It's not a bad set, it's just that there are plenty of better options. DPS could use velidreth, skoria, nerien'eth, or kena and all pull higher dps without sustain issues except for maybe kena. Healers don't even use monster sets right now, they just rock 5 spc and 5 aether, worm, twilight's, or gossamer with a maelstrom destruction staff and master's or maelstrom resto staff. As far as tanks go, I guess it's acceptable but it's just a greedy set that doesn't contribute to the group dps. Sure, you can use more skills as the tank, but that's going to contribute another 2k dps where a warhorn could increase it by much more. I'm not great at pvp so I won't even you try to touch on that.

Hämähäkki

I use Engine Guardian on my healer. Works perfect

Brrrofski

I honestly find it useless. Even for tanking. Use bloodspawn on my Dk and Nerienth on my saptank. I sustain pretty easy on them so would rather something which gives me something else.

Cryptical

There are times when that little robot pops up at the end of a fight that drained a bar and I'm like "NOW you show up to fill the blue, AFTER I ground my way with sweeps through two flapping dozen adds?!?! You filthy bastid!"

But I'm still glad the guy shows up.

I'd like the max speed of him to get a boost. The summon able assistants / pets / familiars all blast across the landscape at comical speeds, keeping up with you. But when horsing somewhere I have hit the speed boost and outrun the guy if he pops up. He's dwemer-born, his wheels should let him be at least as fast as that sits-on-his-butt banker andromo or that carries-all-that-merchandise merchant nuzimeh.

Oompuh

For end game group PvE building for sustain is pointless with shards, repent, siphon, and ele drain in the game.

For PvP it can be more useful but the fact that it can be interrupted and random is a con

sekou_trayvond

I think EG is still helpful and viable, although my builds have worked out other strategeries. That being said, if EG is what you have access to- roll with it. Not like getting resources back is a bad thing.

Oh, another comment/realization after perusing the comments so far: a healer based monster set would be interesting/appreciated.

Sharee

I do not like randomness, and EG is randomness squared. Not only do you have to get lucky to see it proc when you actually need it, you also have to get lucky a second time to see it proc the resource you actually need at that moment.

Bah.

Doctordarkspawn

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

For tanks, there is no better monster helm set. There are much better deals than bloodspawn nowadays and engine guardian is one of them.

For DPS, Stam, Velindreth is reigning champ right now. For magicka and healers, there's basicly nothing else but engine guardian for them, really.

As for the game being designed toward damage output, while that has been the case, we are seeing a brutal and grinding halt for it with DB and shadows of the hist. With the introduction of cost increase poisons, and resource drain mechanics, sustain is now more valueable than ever, and with the cost increase changes with DB, it's become harder to do requiring more and more focus to accomplish. (And CP for that matter.)

What I'm saying is, it's entirely valid and logical to build for sustain. It's entirely logical and valid to use engine guardian still. I see alot of templar DPS use it, I see alot of tanks use it over bloodspawn nowadays, Sustain is becoming slowly more important than raw DPS.

I speak mostly from a PVE perspective, so take that for what you will.

I would argue that tanks shouldn't have sustain issues, or they're likely to wipe the group. I run three tanks--Temp, NB, DK--and none of them use engine guardian. Each of them can solo or hold against almost every vet (and some trial) bosses and/or mobs. A temp tank using jabs and retribution can proc Bogdans every 10-15s, for example--and it's a set resource with an obvious tell that I, or others, just have to stand in. Malubeth's is another good one, or Warden's (since the buff) for group utility.

With Engine Guardian, I've found that the randomness of the resource, in practical situations, outweighs the utility. Besides, most tanks are focused on one type resource for heals, taunts, shields, CC, whatever, and replenishing that one resource takes precedence over possibly replenishing it or two that you don't need.

For DPS, actually, it might be more useful since a lot run like glass cannons, spamming abilities and weaving and they might find that randomness better for "oh crap" moment where they go "oomph", stand in red, or have to unexpectedly roll away/ block.

On the topic of sustain for tanks, Willows Path is a critically overlooked set. Just my anecdotes. I'm not saying Engine Guardian a bad set, just that there are better ones once you streamline your build. It's a great starter set, though.

P.S. Totally agree with you on the shift to a sustain meta--and it's great. ESO was seriously at risk of turning into DCUO.

Someone else who runs a temp tank running retribution and biting jabs? I'M NOT INSANE!? VINDICATION! (Though in my case I use punturing sweep, full magicka, and wipe the floor with everything but Vet Trials.)

Out of want to know, what would you suggest for a build like that over engine guardian? I know the only other set I was considering was Skoria for the damage potential.

DeadlyRecluse

Viable, yes.

Best in slot? Rarely, if ever.

It's the cutest monster helm, though, and the effect (while less consistent than some others) can turn a fight around.

Plus the synergies with WW and Repentance are kinda fun.

Peekachu99

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

For tanks, there is no better monster helm set. There are much better deals than bloodspawn nowadays and engine guardian is one of them.

For DPS, Stam, Velindreth is reigning champ right now. For magicka and healers, there's basicly nothing else but engine guardian for them, really.

As for the game being designed toward damage output, while that has been the case, we are seeing a brutal and grinding halt for it with DB and shadows of the hist. With the introduction of cost increase poisons, and resource drain mechanics, sustain is now more valueable than ever, and with the cost increase changes with DB, it's become harder to do requiring more and more focus to accomplish. (And CP for that matter.)

What I'm saying is, it's entirely valid and logical to build for sustain. It's entirely logical and valid to use engine guardian still. I see alot of templar DPS use it, I see alot of tanks use it over bloodspawn nowadays, Sustain is becoming slowly more important than raw DPS.

I speak mostly from a PVE perspective, so take that for what you will.

I would argue that tanks shouldn't have sustain issues, or they're likely to wipe the group. I run three tanks--Temp, NB, DK--and none of them use engine guardian. Each of them can solo or hold against almost every vet (and some trial) bosses and/or mobs. A temp tank using jabs and retribution can proc Bogdans every 10-15s, for example--and it's a set resource with an obvious tell that I, or others, just have to stand in. Malubeth's is another good one, or Warden's (since the buff) for group utility.

With Engine Guardian, I've found that the randomness of the resource, in practical situations, outweighs the utility. Besides, most tanks are focused on one type resource for heals, taunts, shields, CC, whatever, and replenishing that one resource takes precedence over possibly replenishing it or two that you don't need.

For DPS, actually, it might be more useful since a lot run like glass cannons, spamming abilities and weaving and they might find that randomness better for "oh crap" moment where they go "oomph", stand in red, or have to unexpectedly roll away/ block.

On the topic of sustain for tanks, Willows Path is a critically overlooked set. Just my anecdotes. I'm not saying Engine Guardian a bad set, just that there are better ones once you streamline your build. It's a great starter set, though.

P.S. Totally agree with you on the shift to a sustain meta--and it's great. ESO was seriously at risk of turning into DCUO.

Someone else who runs a temp tank running retribution and biting jabs? I'M NOT INSANE!? VINDICATION!

Out of want to know, what would you suggest for a build like that over engine guardian? I know the only other set I was considering was Skoria for the damage potential.

I run Bogdan's on my temp tank and love it. It procs like crazy, drops right on me 90% of the time, since it comes from mostly jabs. Pretty sure (need testing) that each jab that hits each enemy has a chance to proc it--hence why it goes off so much. Same for each tick of retribution on you or others. Great set and fits with the "theme" of a holy/ healing warrior.

If that 2% proc chance were any higher everyone and their grandma would be using it. You hear people complain about how low that is, but it's really not with the right setup.

CRUCIAL EDIT: *Puncturing Sweeps. Not the Stam morph. I don't know if this setup would work for a stamplar, since it's the heal that triggers it. In that case, Warden is a good utility set, since you can plop a sphere and leave it for your teammates (or stand in it yourself if you're under cap). Malubeth is pretty hard to beat, too.

Edit #2 lol: You said magika tanking--was reading this on my phone and missed that. So ignore the "crucial edit" bit

Stiltz

I run Skoria on my healer and can heal any vet dungeon while still putting out 30-40k dps

Doctordarkspawn

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

For tanks, there is no better monster helm set. There are much better deals than bloodspawn nowadays and engine guardian is one of them.

For DPS, Stam, Velindreth is reigning champ right now. For magicka and healers, there's basicly nothing else but engine guardian for them, really.

As for the game being designed toward damage output, while that has been the case, we are seeing a brutal and grinding halt for it with DB and shadows of the hist. With the introduction of cost increase poisons, and resource drain mechanics, sustain is now more valueable than ever, and with the cost increase changes with DB, it's become harder to do requiring more and more focus to accomplish. (And CP for that matter.)

What I'm saying is, it's entirely valid and logical to build for sustain. It's entirely logical and valid to use engine guardian still. I see alot of templar DPS use it, I see alot of tanks use it over bloodspawn nowadays, Sustain is becoming slowly more important than raw DPS.

I speak mostly from a PVE perspective, so take that for what you will.

I would argue that tanks shouldn't have sustain issues, or they're likely to wipe the group. I run three tanks--Temp, NB, DK--and none of them use engine guardian. Each of them can solo or hold against almost every vet (and some trial) bosses and/or mobs. A temp tank using jabs and retribution can proc Bogdans every 10-15s, for example--and it's a set resource with an obvious tell that I, or others, just have to stand in. Malubeth's is another good one, or Warden's (since the buff) for group utility.

With Engine Guardian, I've found that the randomness of the resource, in practical situations, outweighs the utility. Besides, most tanks are focused on one type resource for heals, taunts, shields, CC, whatever, and replenishing that one resource takes precedence over possibly replenishing it or two that you don't need.

For DPS, actually, it might be more useful since a lot run like glass cannons, spamming abilities and weaving and they might find that randomness better for "oh crap" moment where they go "oomph", stand in red, or have to unexpectedly roll away/ block.

On the topic of sustain for tanks, Willows Path is a critically overlooked set. Just my anecdotes. I'm not saying Engine Guardian a bad set, just that there are better ones once you streamline your build. It's a great starter set, though.

P.S. Totally agree with you on the shift to a sustain meta--and it's great. ESO was seriously at risk of turning into DCUO.

Someone else who runs a temp tank running retribution and biting jabs? I'M NOT INSANE!? VINDICATION!

Out of want to know, what would you suggest for a build like that over engine guardian? I know the only other set I was considering was Skoria for the damage potential.

I run Bogdan's on my temp tank and love it. It procs like crazy, drops right on me 90% of the time, since it comes from mostly jabs. Pretty sure (need testing) that each jab that hits each enemy has a chance to proc it--hence why it goes off so much. Same for each tick of retribution on you or others. Great set and fits with the "theme" of a holy/ healing warrior.

If that 2% proc chance were any higher everyone and their grandma would be using it. You hear people complain about how low that is, but it's really not with the right setup.

Very interesting. I briefly considered Bogdans but never really gave it much thought. I might use it now. Thank you.

Edit: I figured out you made the mistake when you started talking about healing, I pretty much run almost the exact same thing.

bowmanz607

Depends on your build, but with champ points sustain is usually not an issue when you play properly. However, in non cp campaigns it is very useful.

PurifedBladez

Engine Guardian is decent.

biovitalb16_ESO

Needing EG is just a warning sign of you not knowing how to manage your resources properly.

Cryptical

biovitalb16_ESO wrote: »

Needing EG is just a warning sign of you not knowing how to manage your resources properly.

As a magica Templar, I weave in light attacks to proc a poison now and then, and then go back to the abilities that do more damage per second than those c160 purple weapons with purple unresist damage glyphs. Those abilities cost.

Furthermore, it's usually a good idea to try to always be doing something in a combat. Grabbing an add off the healer - costs resources, doing some healing or buffing from my back bar - costs resources, throwing a debuff - costs resources.

What you call 'managing resources' sounds to me like intentionally slowing down your participation so your bars have a lot of blue/green.

Lucius_Aelius

I use Engine Guardian on my Tanks because I use all damage glyphs on my Jewelry and wear Heavy Armor, and while I have CP's into reduced cost/regen and I use either Purple Drinks or the Golden food from Wrothgar on all but one of my characters, even with that my resources are often lacking.

And I do weave in Heavy Attacks as often as possible, but I still find myself running out (especially in PvE when trying to taunt lots of enemies). I have magicka heals on all my characters and even on Magicka tanks use Pierce Armor so I use stamina as well, so whatever it gives me is always useful, and I can spam either Magicka or Stamina abilities as needed while the Engine Guardian is up to help proc it again, which means it's often up as often as not in fights (and sometimes up more often than not).

The fact is that with my Resistance just under the cap and all other parts of my Build in good shape, the only thing I lack is resource regeneration, and this set solves it. If I were going to change to a different set I'd have to alter my build to compensate and would probably be less tanky than I am no matter what I do as a result of not having the Engine Guardian giving me resources.

Whether it's Stamina for blocking or Magicka for healing (or health for healing) it's always giving me something that helps me stay alive, and I enjoy the style of play that it allows me to engage in because my builds are all Hybrid Tank/dps builds and this set helps make it viable in a way no other set could since resource management is the only thing it lacks that it needs.