Salvation Set Perma Bans

JavaWho

I am usually a read only and seldom post in the forums. I feel very strongly regarding the "Salvation Set" bans. I know of two people specifically banned for putting on this set, showing their GM's and Officers the glitch and I have heard there are more players out there than the two I know personally.

One took guild officers into Bloodspawn to show them the damage and killed many mudcrabs outside Rawl Kha and hit 1200 attacks while doing this which seems to be part of the reason for the ban. The other tested the set in a similar manner. Both put in bug reports to ZOS, showing their intent to bring this glitch to the forefront, yet neither completed VMA or Vet Maw of Lorkhaj nor went to Cyrodiil to destroy the other faction in this set. I know one was an ESO plus member.

ZOS if you are reading this, I have played this game since beta, I streamed your game and have been involved in the in game community for a long time. I believe you should not punish the users of that set if they did not use it in malicious intent. Submitting a bug report in and of itself should show no malicious intent.

Thank you in advance for taking this into consideration everyone.

Java

SirAndy

JavaWho wrote: »

I streamed your game and have been involved in the in game community for a long time.

And that is relevant how exactly? Are you expecting "special treatment" because you have streamed the game?



And for what it's worth, i also tested the set when i first heard rumors of the bug and exploit and i wasn't banned.
Something smells fishy ...

FortheloveofKrist

Yeah, they did more than just test it.

No plausible denial on this one.

starkerealm

More than that, we knew this was broken on PTS, as I recall. Going on live and testing it there when you've got PTS access is just, an incomprehensibly stupid idea.

iRogue32

Regardless of what players where doing this set, players should not be perma banned for using a bugged set that was left in the game. One of the players who was banned posted a video of him killing Bloodspawn within a matter of seconds to show how broken the set was, which eventually let to ZoS hotfixing it the next day. ZoS really needs to rethink the way they handle exploits and cheats. Why is it that players who used Cheat Engine are able to get their permanent bans reversed after they used 3rd party software to cheat and claim the number 1 spot on multiple leaderboards, while players, who used a bug set for 1 hour to show the community how broken it is, are permanently banned without even a warning?

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

SirAndy

starkerealm wrote: »

Going on live and testing it there when you've got PTS access is just, an incomprehensibly stupid idea.

Well, i didn't have a full set on the PTS but i *do* have a full set on live.

My point still stands, there are many ways to test this without actually exploiting the bug ...

dsalter

i had the old set, didnt get banned, then again i only tested it on random mobs, realised it was pretty lame anyways and put it aside.

Mordred101

Whomever is responsible for QA'ing the patch that brought that bug should be permanently banned. Players didn't break the game, the developers broke the game.

Unsent.Soul

starkerealm wrote: »

More than that, we knew this was broken on PTS, as I recall. Going on live and testing it there when you've got PTS access is just, an incomprehensibly stupid idea.

Kind of like the fact that there were certain things fixed in the latest PTS but they chose a different patch version to send for auth. And now people are stuck with bugs that were originally fixed for the pts, but not now?

antihero727

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/284494/zos-i-dont-get-your-ban-level-system#latest

They closed this one early last week but a few other feel like this was an overaction.

starkerealm

SirAndy wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Going on live and testing it there when you've got PTS access is just, an incomprehensibly stupid idea.

Well, i didn't have a full set on the PTS but i *do* have a full set on live.

My point still stands, there are many ways to test this without actually exploiting the bug ...

Yeah, there is an issue with getting acess to test items on the PTS.

starkerealm

Unsent.Soul wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

More than that, we knew this was broken on PTS, as I recall. Going on live and testing it there when you've got PTS access is just, an incomprehensibly stupid idea.

Kind of like the fact that there were certain things fixed in the latest PTS but they chose a different patch version to send for auth. And now people are stuck with bugs that were originally fixed for the pts, but not now?

Yeah, but there is a huge difference between putting on a broken set on live and realizing it's still broken, and "testing" an exploit on multiple Bloodspawn runs. If you're testing on live, that's always a bad idea.

iRogue32

starkerealm wrote: »

Unsent.Soul wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

More than that, we knew this was broken on PTS, as I recall. Going on live and testing it there when you've got PTS access is just, an incomprehensibly stupid idea.

Kind of like the fact that there were certain things fixed in the latest PTS but they chose a different patch version to send for auth. And now people are stuck with bugs that were originally fixed for the pts, but not now?

Yeah, but there is a huge difference between putting on a broken set on live and realizing it's still broken, and "testing" an exploit on multiple Bloodspawn runs. If you're testing on live, that's always a bad idea.

Bad idea? maybe...but does it really deserve a permanent ban from the game?

antihero727

starkerealm wrote: »

Unsent.Soul wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

More than that, we knew this was broken on PTS, as I recall. Going on live and testing it there when you've got PTS access is just, an incomprehensibly stupid idea.

Kind of like the fact that there were certain things fixed in the latest PTS but they chose a different patch version to send for auth. And now people are stuck with bugs that were originally fixed for the pts, but not now?

Yeah, but there is a huge difference between putting on a broken set on live and realizing it's still broken, and "testing" an exploit on multiple Bloodspawn runs. If you're testing on live, that's always a bad idea.

Then PTS should have an everything vendor

starkerealm

antihero727 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Unsent.Soul wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

More than that, we knew this was broken on PTS, as I recall. Going on live and testing it there when you've got PTS access is just, an incomprehensibly stupid idea.

Kind of like the fact that there were certain things fixed in the latest PTS but they chose a different patch version to send for auth. And now people are stuck with bugs that were originally fixed for the pts, but not now?

Yeah, but there is a huge difference between putting on a broken set on live and realizing it's still broken, and "testing" an exploit on multiple Bloodspawn runs. If you're testing on live, that's always a bad idea.

Then PTS should have an everything vendor

Yeah, absolutely. I'm always kinda surprised when I come back after a long absence and remember it doesn't.

starkerealm

iRogue32 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Unsent.Soul wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

More than that, we knew this was broken on PTS, as I recall. Going on live and testing it there when you've got PTS access is just, an incomprehensibly stupid idea.

Kind of like the fact that there were certain things fixed in the latest PTS but they chose a different patch version to send for auth. And now people are stuck with bugs that were originally fixed for the pts, but not now?

Yeah, but there is a huge difference between putting on a broken set on live and realizing it's still broken, and "testing" an exploit on multiple Bloodspawn runs. If you're testing on live, that's always a bad idea.

Bad idea? maybe...but does it really deserve a permanent ban from the game?

If you put it on, derped around and realized something was off? No.

If you're "testing" the exploit in front of a live guild audience? Yeah, permanent bans are probably reasonable.

timidobserver

I am okay with the trend of it being okay to use exploits until they get fixed going away. If you find an exploit report it and move along instead of needing to take advantage of it or show it to people. Though yeh, permaban might be a bit overkill. It might have helped if they announced a new policy regarding punishments for exploiting.

starkerealm

timidobserver wrote: »

I am okay with the trend of it being okay to use exploits until they get fixed going away. If you find an exploit report it and move along instead of needing to take advantage of it or show it to people. Though yeh, permaban might be a bit overkill. It might have helped if they announced a new policy regarding punishments for exploiting.

It's not really a new policy, though. The rule has always been: exploit, get banned.

The only difference is ZOS actually following policy.

Vaoh

starkerealm wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

I am okay with the trend of it being okay to use exploits until they get fixed going away. If you find an exploit report it and move along instead of needing to take advantage of it or show it to people. Though yeh, permaban might be a bit overkill. It might have helped if they announced a new policy regarding punishments for exploiting.

It's not really a new policy, though. The rule has always been: exploit, get banned.

The only difference is ZOS actually following policy.

Yup.

Exploits are bannable.

Hacking is fine.

L2CE

JavaWho

iRogue32 wrote: »

Regardless of what players where doing this set, players should not be perma banned for using a bugged set that was left in the game. One of the players who was banned posted a video of him killing Bloodspawn within a matter of seconds to show how broken the set was, which eventually let to ZoS hotfixing it the next day. ZoS really needs to rethink the way they handle exploits and cheats. Why is it that players who used Cheat Engine are able to get their permanent bans reversed after they used 3rd party software to cheat and claim the number 1 spot on multiple leaderboards, while players, who used a bug set for 1 hour to show the community how broken it is, are permanently banned without even a warning?

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Great Post

timidobserver

starkerealm wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

I am okay with the trend of it being okay to use exploits until they get fixed going away. If you find an exploit report it and move along instead of needing to take advantage of it or show it to people. Though yeh, permaban might be a bit overkill. It might have helped if they announced a new policy regarding punishments for exploiting.

It's not really a new policy, though. The rule has always been: exploit, get banned.

The only difference is ZOS actually following policy.

By new policy I meant increased enforcement.

Brittany_Joy

To be honest. You have to farm for the salvation set, which in itself is intent to exploit. But permaban for using ingame gear is overkill. But it was a known exploit so no sympathy from meh.

Taia

Good about time they took this seriously, I am all for the bans. All these people playing the victim card you notice it's never them posting but some random friend? Never trust internet strangers I am sure they didn't tell you everything.

starkerealm

timidobserver wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

I am okay with the trend of it being okay to use exploits until they get fixed going away. If you find an exploit report it and move along instead of needing to take advantage of it or show it to people. Though yeh, permaban might be a bit overkill. It might have helped if they announced a new policy regarding punishments for exploiting.

It's not really a new policy, though. The rule has always been: exploit, get banned.

The only difference is ZOS actually following policy.

By new policy I meant increased enforcement.

No. ZOS said don't do this. People kept pushing the boundaries. And kept pushing. And pushing. ZOS said bans. People kept pushing.

"Oh, look, bans. If only there'd been some warning. Like the rules that have been live since launch."

Jaronking

Its crazy how they fixed the set on PTS than release the broken version of the set to live and than ban people for using the set when they fixed it.Its just shows how incompetent they are.

antihero727

starkerealm wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

I am okay with the trend of it being okay to use exploits until they get fixed going away. If you find an exploit report it and move along instead of needing to take advantage of it or show it to people. Though yeh, permaban might be a bit overkill. It might have helped if they announced a new policy regarding punishments for exploiting.

It's not really a new policy, though. The rule has always been: exploit, get banned.

The only difference is ZOS actually following policy.

By new policy I meant increased enforcement.

No. ZOS said don't do this. People kept pushing the boundaries. And kept pushing. And pushing. ZOS said bans. People kept pushing.

"Oh, look, bans. If only there'd been some warning. Like the rules that have been live since launch."

Where did they say "don't do this"? Post 418 of 723 in one of the 2 official cheating threads? What if these people do not have forum accounts? Who really reads the terms of service fully? There were many fails on both sides that need to be fixed to move on.

starkerealm

Jaronking wrote: »

Its crazy how they fixed the set on PTS than release the broken version of the set to live and than ban people for using the set when they fixed it.Its just shows how incompetent they are.

It's crazier how people took the broken set on live and never thought about how this could blow up in their face and then cried after getting slapped down over it.

Really, it's broken, don't use it. How hard can that possibly be?

lonewolf26

Permantnely banning someone for showing you where your software is not working is irresponsible of a developer. You need to gauge intent before laying down the ban hammer. Did these people use this set to gain an unfair advantage in a leaderboard or PvP setting? No! They did nothing to undermine the competitive aspects of the game. The point is that they banned these players for demonstrating the developer's mistakes, responsibly. That's what's wrong.

What does 1200 attacks get you with that broken set?
May by 12 bloodspawn kills, an ocean of dead mudcrabs? Unless ZoS has established gargoyles and chitenous creatures as endangered species then no harm was done.

I ask those of you who are reasonable to please reconsider and reinstate these players. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @Wrobel @ZOS_BrianWheeler.

Ch4mpTW

So let me get this straight... People made posts and threads about why ZOS isn't more harsh and strict about enforcing their policies about cheating/exploiting... And now you all are saying that ZOS went overboard? What? Lmao. No. Absolutely not. Let these players remain banned and for good. Cut the crap, and knock it off. It's just getting plain silly. I understand we are all entitled to our opinions, and I respect that understanding — but come on. This is ridiculous. If you cheat or exploit? You get banned. It's that simple.

starkerealm

antihero727 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

I am okay with the trend of it being okay to use exploits until they get fixed going away. If you find an exploit report it and move along instead of needing to take advantage of it or show it to people. Though yeh, permaban might be a bit overkill. It might have helped if they announced a new policy regarding punishments for exploiting.

It's not really a new policy, though. The rule has always been: exploit, get banned.

The only difference is ZOS actually following policy.

By new policy I meant increased enforcement.

No. ZOS said don't do this. People kept pushing the boundaries. And kept pushing. And pushing. ZOS said bans. People kept pushing.

"Oh, look, bans. If only there'd been some warning. Like the rules that have been live since launch."

Where did they say "don't do this"? Post 418 of 723 in one of the 2 official cheating threads? What if these people do not have forum accounts? Who really reads the terms of service fully? There were many fails on both sides that need to be fixed to move on.

In the terms of service you skipped past when you were launching the game.

MaxwellC

The players shouldn't be banned regardless unless there's a statement on the games launch screen or somewhere in the game stating not to use this set or risk your account being banned. Not all players check the forums out so outright banning them to me is not justifiable.

Imagine if your state implemented a law stating you could not spit anywhere unless it's your home/trash areas and you were caught spitting but there's no sign stating that it's against the law. The question is how would you feel especially if the penalty was you have to go do 3 months of community service and pay a fine of 1,000$, it would be unfair and unjust since the lack the new law being advertised.