Icereach PC NA (Mulaamnir/Kyne/BWB NA PC - Final)

anamenobodyelsehas

Raknosh wrote: »

anamenobodyelsehas wrote: »

Beaverton wrote: »

What, no Spinal Tap fans out there?

Says the old man!

anamenobodyelsehas

An_An wrote: »

Usual salt incoming
I love this campaign and have defended it in many threads in the past when people talk about re rollers and how they farm in Kyne.

After playing for a couple of weeks (after a 6 month gap) , I finally came across an opponent who seemed extremely new. For two weeks my solo ass has been getting kicked around by guilds. That’s probably not new or unexpected.

What is new is that I was playing AD. I know what you all think, that AD is the Zerg faction with unskilled players. That is probably true. What you may not know is that there are a ton of new players on AD. They really don’t know things we take for granted.

What is also new is that I was in a faction of noobs playing against DC. That is not something I would recommend. I don’t know what it is about DC, but I have never been hit by more dawn breakers, meteors , destro ults and you name it. These skills do not belong in kyne. And even if you use them, you don’t have to use them when you are 3 and I am 1. You can probably kill me with light attacks alone. And FYI , if you are emperor and fighting someone 1v1, you shouldn’t really have to meteor them as well.

Is anyone else sick of this ? Tired of fighting overgeared players who (I admit) are decently skilled. If I’m having this experience (and I like to think that I am of average skill) then can you imagine what a new player must be like ?

I think ZOS should close this campaign and convert it into a no CP 7 day campaign. That is what we need. I don’t think there is any point to keeping Kyne limited to below 50 anymore.

New players will always have access to incredible buffs which are essential in no CP gameplay. They can learn decently and eventually gear vet toons.

If you want to grind meteor and other skills, that’s fine. Atleast fight me on common ground then. Bring your best and let me bring mine. Let’s fight, have a nice post fight conversation and be friends. I am well aware that all this is too much to ask for.

An_An

@Beaverton If someone is truly new they probably should learn the combat mechanics before coming into PvP.
You may disagree but I think jumping into PvP in a new mmo from the onset is stupid.

If Mulaamnir was converted into a vet no CP campaign, people who are new to PvP will probably be above level 50 and have access to better gear/skills. I don't think we would get many folks who step into PvP in their very first toon in Level 10. And if they do, well then it is partially their fault for not doing their homework.

Obviously there would still be a gear difference between green and gold but that can be rectified quite easily with a little gold / help. And it would be a one-time investment per gear set. One drawback I can foresee is that people levelling from cp 0 to cp 160 may have to regear every so often , but people tell me that it is a moderately fast journey. And once you are cp 160 well you never have to worry about regearing ever again and can focus on improving gameplay. Its a good progression.

No CP 7 day is a win win for all, except the very stupid.

An_An

Also if I can add something.
New players generally don't lack access to improvement materials.
New players lack access to item sets.

I distinctly remember time as EP starting out in Kyne geared in 4 pieces of Morag Tong because I had no one to craft me gear sets. I didn't have ESO plus and didn't have a single crafting mat. Sure over time I started crafting (almost master crafter now ) Forget medium heavy light I was just trying to get a 5 piece set together. Died a lot, if any of you remember.

ColoursYouHave

An_An wrote: »

@Beaverton If someone is truly new they probably should learn the combat mechanics before coming into PvP.
You may disagree but I think jumping into PvP in a new mmo from the onset is stupid.

If Mulaamnir was converted into a vet no CP campaign, people who are new to PvP will probably be above level 50 and have access to better gear/skills. I don't think we would get many folks who step into PvP in their very first toon in Level 10. And if they do, well then it is partially their fault for not doing their homework.

Obviously there would still be a gear difference between green and gold but that can be rectified quite easily with a little gold / help. And it would be a one-time investment per gear set. One drawback I can foresee is that people levelling from cp 0 to cp 160 may have to regear every so often , but people tell me that it is a moderately fast journey. And once you are cp 160 well you never have to worry about regearing ever again and can focus on improving gameplay. Its a good progression.

No CP 7 day is a win win for all, except the very stupid.

While I generally agree with what you're trying to do, I don't know if your solution will make much of a difference. The whole idea of new players starting PVP after level 50 doesn't change much regardless of whether or not a non-vet campaign exists, and it doesn't really address the discrepancy in gear quality either. All you'd be doing is shifting the problem to a different place, and while there may be some upside, I don't think you'd be creating a significantly better learning environment for new players.

There will always be a skill gap between new and experienced players, which is perfectly okay, and is the type of obstacle that new players should have to overcome as they progress. The gear gap, however, does not need to exist, and should be made more relevant to experienced players than to newer players. By capping gear quality, whether it be in non-vet or a no-CP campaign, you allow players to learn in an environment with a low barrier of entry where skill is the most relevant factor so people can more easily assess how they're performing and where they need to improve.

Beaverton

An_An wrote: »

Also if I can add something.
New players generally don't lack access to improvement materials.
New players lack access to item sets.

I distinctly remember time as EP starting out in Kyne geared in 4 pieces of Morag Tong because I had no one to craft me gear sets. I didn't have ESO plus and didn't have a single crafting mat. Sure over time I started crafting (almost master crafter now ) Forget medium heavy light I was just trying to get a 5 piece set together. Died a lot, if any of you remember.

I remember being so excited when I got a complete set of vicious death, spread out over about 20 levels. I didn't know how it proc'ed and couldn't understand why my light attacks weren't exploding people. That was back when I played on DC and was excited to get into my first group after just doing quests in cyrodiil for two weeks.

Raknosh

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

A big issue with the gear discrepancy is that it makes it more difficult to judge how good you actually are relative to other players. Having a huge difference in gear quality makes it really difficult for new players to know how good or bad they actually are.

Yea, I remember when CP was removed out of BwB, the gods of non vet were sudently not invincible anymore...

An_An wrote: »

I don't think we would get many folks who step into PvP in their very first toon in Level 10. And if they do, well then it is partially their fault for not doing their homework.

Actually, I did exactly that! Ofc, I sucked, had no clue about anything, but I still had a TON of fun! Heck I even almost managed to lead pugs and emp myself at my 2cnd or 3rd week into this game. In retrospect, I'm happy that I didn't, cause all I did back then was sweep and BOL. I think I had 1 white set of seducer and thats it.

But those were different times. There was as many players in BwB than there is in Vivec nowadays, except there was no lag. That means 4-5 elite players couldn't turn the tide by themselves. Also, a great thing back then was that the gear quality didn't make any difference in stats (only in BwB). Now that I think of it, I really wonder why they changed that...

MajBludd

Do away with all servers except a cp and no cp. The pvp pop is too low for all of these servers.

Almost all, with exception of the vet cp camp, are dead most of the time. Cp vet lag sucks in the evening but the 7 day cp camp isn't because nobody plays there.

No cp seems dead and I haven't been in there since it was azuras and probably never will go back.

2 servers, no cp and cp. I see more new players in cp vet then I do in under 50 and that's because most know what under 50 is about.

Sreja_Bone

Just catching up here after being gone for awhile.
Grats on the nuptials, Adenoma.
And OMG

W0lf_z13 wrote: »

- looks around -

this is huge news; I was really worried about this fella.

@WOlf_z13

ShenaniganSquad

maybe with the planned improvements over the next 3 quarters we might see the lag issue solved in vet and more of us will be able to play there. The total game re-download in quarter 1 2020 may just be the thing cyrodiil needs to improve the lag and make the switch to vet worth our while.

Im not paying money for a game and then go to an area I cant play, just to satisfy some random on the internet because my choices trigger him

On the subject of gear, I have always said that u/50 should have some kind of across the board generic armor stats so that all soldiers are the same.. allow weapon differences maybe but make the armor standard issue, just like in the army! lol never happen, but its a dream haha

Marcus684

ShenaniganSquad wrote: »

maybe with the planned improvements over the next 3 quarters we might see the lag issue solved in vet and more of us will be able to play there. The total game re-download in quarter 1 2020 may just be the thing cyrodiil needs to improve the lag and make the switch to vet worth our while.

Im not paying money for a game and then go to an area I cant play, just to satisfy some random on the internet because my choices trigger him

On the subject of gear, I have always said that u/50 should have some kind of across the board generic armor stats so that all soldiers are the same.. allow weapon differences maybe but make the armor standard issue, just like in the army! lol never happen, but its a dream haha

While I don't agree with your choice to continue to play in lowbie pvp with gear and skills above what the noobs can get, I share your hopefulness for the future of game performance. I took the other path, which was to stay away from BWB/Kyne, and now I barely play anymore due to the performance in Kaal.

Maybe those of you that remain in lowbie and care about fairplay could make the conscious decision to play like a true noob (or casual, like me). Only wear RftW drops, and keep gear quality blue or below. I made 2 sets of purple gear (with blue rings) for a stamblade I leveled in Kyne once and it just felt wrong, so I never did it again.

That's just me, though. Everyone has the right to play this game how they want within the rules set forth by ZOS. Just don't be shocked when some vocal people call you out on what seems extra-cheesy to them.

Raknosh

Marcus684 wrote: »

Maybe those of you that remain in lowbie and care about fairplay could make the conscious decision to play like a true noob (or casual, like me). Only wear RftW drops, and keep gear quality blue or below. I made 2 sets of purple gear (with blue rings) for a stamblade I leveled in Kyne once and it just felt wrong, so I never did it again.

I wouldn't go as far as that, but I agree with the general idea. If you are experienced and have rolled just about every class already, what you can do is play and stick with creative/out of the box builds. Hybrids for exemple are frowned upon due to it going directly against the core meta of this game, but believe me, in a non competitive setting like non vet, they still work! And it keeps things fresh, much more than rerolling your 7th magplar (which I was probly guilty of, now that I think of it).

W0lf_z13

things have been a bit rough for me... took a 5 month break from eso .. a few months off from gaming completely due to a death in my family .... still not 100% ok .... but im back to playing again at least

Raknosh

Really glad to see you back man!

An_An

I too like to play with odd craftable gear combos ...

Daedric Trickery was my latest failed experiment. Pair it with mech acuity for some weird probablistic gameplay. Sometimes you will wreck people, most times you'll just die.
Pelinal hybrids are surprisingly good and easy to play with.
Innate axiom on stamina is quite fun cuz you're stuck with class skills. Awesome way to learn about your class and get out of the usual stam skills.
I had Tava's favor on my infamous snare magwarden with decisive traits on weapons and well-fitted on body ... i thought that worked pretty well

On my list is Morkuldin, Alessia's Bulwark and a Twice Born Star + Pelinal Hybrid, which seems so ridiculous I've got to try it.

But I know my first emperor toon will wear
Oblivions Foe
2 items: Adds 1-129 Health Recovery
3 items: Adds 1-129 Stamina Recovery
4 items: Adds 1-129 Magicka Recovery
5 items: Increases the damage of your Soul Trap ability by 100%.

Fur_like_snow

If a player wants to see how they stack up to their peers they should go to Wayrest and duel.

GhostofDatthaw

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

If a player wants to see how they stack up to their peers they should go to Wayrest and duel.

Ehhhh yes and no. The wayrest locals there are in very specific duel builds. You bring an open-world build there and go against one of the actual duelers and GG.

But I get the general idea you are making, Andi love some wayrest duels

Raknosh

An_An wrote: »

Oblivions Foe
2 items: Adds 1-129 Health Recovery
3 items: Adds 1-129 Stamina Recovery
4 items: Adds 1-129 Magicka Recovery
5 items: Increases the damage of your Soul Trap ability by 100%.

Idk if they changed it, but I heard it was only buffing the soul trap ability. A skill that I've never seen used other than for filling gems back in the day.

Sreja_Bone

W0lf_z13 wrote: »

things have been a bit rough for me... took a 5 month break from eso .. a few months off from gaming completely due to a death in my family .... still not 100% ok .... but im back to playing again at least

Raknosh wrote: »

Really glad to see you back man!

Me too; figured you were having a hard time of it. Sometimes that stuff is like trying to climb out of a hole full of sand, just keeps dragging on you. Been there. Really damn good to hear from you. You got a lot of people behind you here - you were always one of the best in our twisted little club.

Lumsdenml

An_An wrote: »

Also if I can add something.
New players generally don't lack access to improvement materials.
New players lack access to item sets.

I distinctly remember time as EP starting out in Kyne geared in 4 pieces of Morag Tong because I had no one to craft me gear sets. I didn't have ESO plus and didn't have a single crafting mat. Sure over time I started crafting (almost master crafter now ) Forget medium heavy light I was just trying to get a 5 piece set together. Died a lot, if any of you remember.

Hey @An_An , did I just see you at bleaks running with a 40 man AA ball zerg?

anamenobodyelsehas

Lumsdenml wrote: »

An_An wrote: »

Also if I can add something.
New players generally don't lack access to improvement materials.
New players lack access to item sets.

I distinctly remember time as EP starting out in Kyne geared in 4 pieces of Morag Tong because I had no one to craft me gear sets. I didn't have ESO plus and didn't have a single crafting mat. Sure over time I started crafting (almost master crafter now ) Forget medium heavy light I was just trying to get a 5 piece set together. Died a lot, if any of you remember.

Hey @An_An , did I just see you at bleaks running with a 40 man AA ball zerg?

Vyle_Byte

W0lf_z13 wrote: »

things have been a bit rough for me... took a 5 month break from eso .. a few months off from gaming completely due to a death in my family .... still not 100% ok .... but im back to playing again at least

Sorry to hear life has been rough, Wolf and for your loss... its never easy. Am really glad to know you are ok tho, you always wonder when people disappear and its nice and almost provides some relief, to see them again.

An_An

Lumsdenml wrote: »

Hey @An_An , did I just see you at bleaks running with a 40 man AA ball zerg?

Probably not? I dont group up usually ...
I did enter Kyne for a few minutes when AD had Aleswell left to emp and there was fighting with EP at Bleakers. So you may have seen me there ...

I do enjoy following the zerg though, that I cannot deny.

Lumsdenml

An_An wrote: »

Lumsdenml wrote: »

Hey @An_An , did I just see you at bleaks running with a 40 man AA ball zerg?

Probably not? I dont group up usually ...
I did enter Kyne for a few minutes when AD had Aleswell left to emp and there was fighting with EP at Bleakers. So you may have seen me there ...

I do enjoy following the zerg though, that I cannot deny.

Yes, I'm sure that must have been it. EP did just have Alse and bleaks (other than trikeeps) and I was at bleaks helping defend. I only bring it up because of your recent stance against rerollers with high gear being bad for the campaign for new people to pvp. From my experience, most of the rerollers that do have the gear advantage that you talk about are usually running Kyne solo or small groups (3-4). Though these players/groups can and do roll through new players, they don't alter the map and they are easy to avoid. Minc, I think , is a good example. He (she?) runs in those small groups (3-4) and is skilled enough that I've seen them wipe multiple 3v10 fights of EP.... However, all of that is farming resources/open field fights. They are not rolling keeps, pushing DC/EP back to their gates, turning the map yellow. If a pug runs into them farming, gets rolled a couple of times... they leave. Minc is easy to avoid if you don't want to keep hitting your head against the wall trying to kill him.

AA, on the other hand, is different. They roll in with their 40+ organized groups against keeps defended by, at most, half their numbers, and paint the map yellow. A new player logs in, sees the map yellow, logs out. Or, goes to help defend and gets rolled by by a force 2-3x their size, then logs.

Personally, I think that is a lot worse for a campaign of <50 than those small groups of purple geared rerollers.

**edit**
And to be fair, if your weren't running with them, that's fine. I mean, AA are what they are... this is just my 2¢.

An_An

Mmmm ... that is also true ...
I stand by what I said, but it was motivated by events at the time and filled with salt.
Maybe there is no right answer and Kyne is balanced in its unfairness.

Lumsdenml

An_An wrote: »

Mmmm ... that is also true ...
I stand by what I said, but it was motivated by events at the time and filled with salt.
Maybe there is no right answer and Kyne is balanced in its unfairness.

Yeah, I hear ya. There really is not perfect solution, but I think it currently is a good compromise.

And salt can be a very good motivating force for self improvement....

ColoursYouHave

An_An wrote: »

Mmmm ... that is also true ...
I stand by what I said, but it was motivated by events at the time and filled with salt.
Maybe there is no right answer and Kyne is balanced in its unfairness.

FWIW I doubt ZOS cares enough about non-vet to make any significant changes regardless. Sometimes I even wonder if they're only keeping it open for us...

W0lf_z13

thanks @Vyle_Byte and @Sreja_Bone ... yeah ... my dad hadnt been doing well from the strokes then his body just gave up ... i was just getting into the car to go up to see him when i got the phone call ... good thing i hadnt started the car yet cause i lost all motor skills stepped out of the car and collapsed on the ground .... will be a year this september

Sreja_Bone

Man, don't even know what to say... so sorry

Beaverton

Lumsdenml wrote: »

An_An wrote: »

Lumsdenml wrote: »

Hey @An_An , did I just see you at bleaks running with a 40 man AA ball zerg?

Probably not? I dont group up usually ...
I did enter Kyne for a few minutes when AD had Aleswell left to emp and there was fighting with EP at Bleakers. So you may have seen me there ...

I do enjoy following the zerg though, that I cannot deny.

AA, on the other hand, is different. They roll in with their 40+ organized groups against keeps defended by, at most, half their numbers, and paint the map yellow. A new player logs in, sees the map yellow, logs out. Or, goes to help defend and gets rolled by by a force 2-3x their size, then logs.

Personally, I think that is a lot worse for a campaign of <50 than those small groups of purple geared rerollers.

**edit**
And to be fair, if your weren't running with them, that's fine. I mean, AA are what they are... this is just my 2¢.

For the record, AA hasn't had 40 people in Kyne since last THanksgiving when we officially changed our home campaign to Sotha. This week, however, we have been running groups in Mula-mir and when I joined towards the end of that evening, we had one group of 23. Last night when we finally did emp our guildie, we had a group of 22. Yes, we had a zerg but no you weren't outnumbered by as many as you seem to think.