Icereach PC NA (Mulaamnir/Kyne/BWB NA PC - Final)

dashima

Damn BwB got so much dramas. (3 locked threads!)

I'm disappointed to hear that AD still has the overwhelming pop count and haven't done anything to fix it, was thinking about levelling some new non-vets on there but I guess I might not.

Setana_Shial wrote: »

In a nut shell this is really what is wrong here. You... gave... up.
When things get ruff you choose to leave to find something easy.
I love my guild because they choose to fight when the situation you are in is happening to us. Band together. Help each other. Fight smarter and harder. Most of all, they have NEVER given up. I am proud to stand with my team, no matter the situation.

The wise words of someone who's never fought constantly and overwhelmingly outnumbered.
Back when I checked out BwB, it was on a new AD toon and I realized within the first couple days that AD basically did nothing but zerg, so I went and made a DC toon to play there instead. In my honest opinion, you are the one playing it "easy" by picking the largest and winning faction on the campaign. It's sad and embarrassing that you actually think that the other factions just aren't good enough (against poplocked ad, 2-3 bar dc/ep) or are weak for leaving for a healthier pvp environment. It's not like EP or DC can just summon up a hundred brand new players to balance the pops, so it's entirely on the campaigns existing playerbase - which means you and the rest of AD.

ŞσƦѦ wrote: »

I also get the feeling that magicka DK is far stronger than people claim it is and that will be my next project. Just from playing a stam DK and seeing both morphs, I can already envision a few strong ways to build. I bet they especially shine in small grp pvp where you can keep everyone locked down with talons inside of your standard + other aoe dps.

I have some experience with this. Magicka DK definitely does a lot better in non-cp campaigns and you'll definitely be able to kill people way more there. I ran a light armor mDK build in BwB and performed well. You won't get nearly as many kills as a stamnb/stamdk/templar but it's still possible to 1vx with it lol. Because things like purge and heals cannot be spammed endlessly on non-cp camps, it's much easier to melt players with consistent pressure and good resource management.

They're exceptionally powerful in smallscale groups and 1v1s though yeah. Talons op.

Lumsdenml

vamp_emily wrote: »

Want to know what people are saying right now?

PUGz.. we are leaving for AS come join us
DWC is moving to AS have fun in BwB
I am done with BwB
Farewll DC, I am off to AS
AD has had the biggest zerges i have ever seen it sucks playing in BwB
Typical AD scrubs
I am leaving BwB, I will be back when i get better
I'm taking a break from BwB.. ad's too toxic
we should all leave and goto AS let AD have the map F### it
people are just gonna end up joining the winning side
not much anyone can do, they will just say 'stop crying and get more people to play that campaign'
Poor game structure I call it
I agree it sucks, but there's nothing to be done, they just have more players
it is bs
Just follow the yellow brick road...Emperors, Gankers, and Zergs, OH MY!

That is just some of the stuff.

Hmmmmmm.... All this about population imbalance... And here I am, still playing on EP. Fighting for my faction, trying to make my guild better, and rolling with the punches. Sometimes we beat our heads against the AD zerg and are pushed back to our gates. Sometimes it is all we can do to hold our trikeeps. Sometimes we push roe to dethrone AD emp and have to defend against DC trying to take chal, and helping out AD. But sometimes... Sometimes.... We crown an emp. That's the way it works. And I'm still here... Still on BWB. Still fighting for EP. No complaints. Just sayin'.

TipsyDrow

Maikon wrote: »

vamp_emily wrote: »

3 days in a row.. and yes date and time is on the pic.

All the constant whining you do about the population just tells me that you have no confidence in what little skill you have, that you want everything to be "fair" and balanced. Well guess what, life isan't fair, and crying about it won't change anything.



Besides, with all the macro users DC has, it's more then balanced.

You talk about skill when all you do is run around spamming mutagen on a zerg, you talk about macro users when you still can't animation cancel nor do you know the difference between the two. You're like Setana in that you can only play in the middle of a zerg because you have no individual skill. To do otherwise leaves shows your ineptness. Well except that one time, I ambushed into the middle of your zerg, killed you then bounced. I guess not even a zerg can save your sorry self. Please stop coming in these threads misrepresenting yourselves as good players. You're just not.

ŞσƦѦ

Wow... it's almost unbelievable how many toxic AD players are polluting this thread with a false sense of accomplishment. Are you guys really so ignorant that you don't see what everyone else does? How can you not understand that there is no reason you guys are winning any campaign aside from sheer numbers?

Attacking Emily for running vs uneven numbers? Why would someone not run from a fight they can't win? I personally fight losing battles every time I'm online and what happens when you die? You have a sea of horrible yellow players who could never dream of beating you alone trying to t-bag you as if they accomplished something zerg vs one. Why would anyone want to deal with that?

If you guys think you are so good and you win based on "skill" and not numbers alone then I challenge any AD player right now to duel me. Within the next 24hrs if I lose a duel to more than 1 AD member I'll delete my toon and never return to this thread again (I put a 1 loss buffer there incase of uncontrollable circumstances like loss of internet).

Let's see you little zerglings do something without the crutch of multiple zergs to back you up.

Adenoma

It's weird that DC folks are moving to Azura's out of BwB given how DC-dominated Azura's has been lately. Not to mention, that just exacerbates both campaigns' problems.

I think that dismissing a zerg as being without skill is unproductive. I was only on for a bit yesterday, but I know that AD was using its numbers well. When we were attacked by DC at Roe the DC forces were split between a weird choice to die at front door and then attempts to get 3-6 siege up on the mine side. Ultimately, that just turned into them getting torn apart by siege because of poor organizational choices. Similarly, all the EP attempts at Alessia didn't make it past the front door where they just sort of sat in siege on those slopes without putting any up on a side of the keep to actually flag it.

Take emp for example - I'll admit to the world that he's a guild member and a friend, not the best player by himself, but he's got a hell of a knack and the patience to successfully rally AD zone to enthusiastically stay on crown. That's a skill by itself. When I was on they 20/20'd multiple keeps. That's not trivial.

While numbers are definitely an issue here, I think that AD is winning more consistently because we're putting those bodies in the right places and they're sort of doing the right things.

And @vamp_emily , @DeadlyRecluse is right when he says that we got bored and logged out.

vamp_emily

Adenoma wrote: »

While numbers are definitely an issue here, I think that AD is winning more consistently because we're putting those bodies in the right places and they're sort of doing the right things.

LOL

Reverb

How hard do you guys on AD laugh to see blues running up and wiping at the front door of Roe over and over and over? I imagine pretty hard.

It's one of the stupidest, most frustrating things about playing on DC. Maybe as an EP I'll hide on the rocks and watch it some night, just to see how sad and funny it is from another perspective.

Adenoma

@vamp_emily , I'm not saying that numbers aren't helping. I'm saying that we're doing much better using our numbers than other alliances. Especially considering that Rak is leaving DC and EP has expressed they generally have a lack of leadership right now, I think that argument is pretty valid. Emp Branden has done a fantastic job motivating and rallying AD zone.

So really, my point is that we've got superior numbers - and we're also using them better.

W0lf_z13

i enjoy the fights that go back and fourth.. those are the best kind of fights... even if being a bit out numbered.... but when u are just completely mowed over by an ENORMOUS amount of opposition then there is no joy from that... maybe from the side doing the mowing ... but new players coming into that will leave right away .... for example.... there was a brand new to bwb player that came in yesterday.... he/she quickly asked how to leave cyrodiil ... from 530pm till the time i said f'it ( around 11:30pm ) it was a pop locked ad vs 2 bar dc and 2 bar ep.... i know ad def has more numbers than any of the other faction but imho zergs of the size of yesterday when the pop is so low on the opposing side really kill it for some people ...

ŞσƦѦ

Adenoma wrote: »

@vamp_emily , I'm not saying that numbers aren't helping. I'm saying that we're doing much better using our numbers than other alliances. Especially considering that Rak is leaving DC and EP has expressed they generally have a lack of leadership right now, I think that argument is pretty valid. Emp Branden has done a fantastic job motivating and rallying AD zone.

So really, my point is that we've got superior numbers - and we're also using them better.

That is completely untrue. Current emp just rallys massive zergs to all follow his emp zerg. We fought them at Ash for over an hour just 10mins ago before I logged and repelled their zerg every single time fighting way against the odds outside in open field. DC clearly has better pvpers, AD has no idea what to do when we get in the faces of all the little zerglings hiding in the back spamming snipe and radiant destruction. Just a mindless skilless zerg. Even a guild member of yours said after dueling that it will be nothing but zerg zerg zerg while Brandon is emp cause all he does is rally zerg zerg zerg to 1 spot and overwhelm with sheer numbers.

DC is using it's numbers very well, we just don't have the numbers that AD does.

To even say you are using your numbers BETTER than other factions when you're winning solely based on numbers is foolish in itself.

You mistake "leadership" with simply calling the entire faction to 1 blob and steam rolling lesser numbers.

Though Rak was a very good leader, let's not forget that DC has other leaders. You just don't like them so you pretend they don't exist.

Adenoma

Sora, I think the point I'm trying to make (and that you have restated) is that Branden is great at rallying zergs and getting bodies in the right place. He does zerg - I don't think he'll deny that. But he's the best person in BwB at organizing zergs right now, IMO.

I didn't see DC or EP using their numbers very well at all last night. For the most part all I did was coldfire DC at Roe front door when they hadn't put up any siege so that I could farm up vigor on a new toon. That didn't scream great use of the numbers that DC did have.

I can't speak to anything that's happened today - I haven't played at all.

vamp_emily

Adenoma wrote: »

@vamp_emily , I'm not saying that numbers aren't helping. I'm saying that we're doing much better using our numbers than other alliances. Especially considering that Rak is leaving DC and EP has expressed they generally have a lack of leadership right now, I think that argument is pretty valid. Emp Branden has done a fantastic job motivating and rallying AD zone.

So really, my point is that we've got superior numbers - and we're also using them better.

Numbers are the only thing that is working for you. I already know the secret on how to kill the wedding dressers, and with even numbers you fall very easily.

It is pretty sad the only people I seen leave glade after it was taken was the wedding dressers. Why log off then? Why not finish the job take all the keeps and make more people quit.

We don't have lack of leadership, someone who has been leading is leading now. It is obvious you didn't know Rak wasn't always the leader. Recent months he has not really wanted to lead and was just part of the group. So yes we have the same leadership we have always had.

[Edit to remove insulting content]

Adenoma

We really don't deserve to have a thread if it can't be conducted civilly.

ŞσƦѦ

Adenoma wrote: »

Sora, I think the point I'm trying to make (and that you have restated) is that Branden is great at rallying zergs and getting bodies in the right place. He does zerg - I don't think he'll deny that. But he's the best person in BwB at organizing zergs right now, IMO.

I didn't see DC or EP using their numbers very well at all last night. For the most part all I did was coldfire DC at Roe front door when they hadn't put up any siege so that I could farm up vigor on a new toon. That didn't scream great use of the numbers that DC did have.

I can't speak to anything that's happened today - I haven't played at all.

I wasn't online then but I was today and we gained a lot of ground against the odds with a grp of 8-12 and another person running a small grp. We took Alessia, Ash, Nikel, Chal, and Brindle while I was there vs Brandon's disgusting 50+ AD zerg. We just out-smarted them taking things in different locations to divide the zerg.

AD did not "use their numbers wisely" all Brandon did was smash his multiple zergs into things til eventually they got overwhelmed. He was not "strategically" placing AD forces when he failed at Ash for over an hour against lesser numbers until he gave up.

Again though, how can you even say your faction uses their numbers better when you have a an almost garunteed chance of winning almost every battle based on numbers alone?

I try to leave the conversations about AD's numbers alone because it's already been thoroughly discussed but it just flabbergasts me when I come to read the thread in the morning and see AD trash talking DC members for "running" from their zerg or for playing another campaign to get a break from the zerg and get some real pvp going.

Reverb

Adenoma wrote: »

We really don't deserve to have a thread if it can't be conducted civilly.

At this point, it's probably best for Zeni to kill the thread. And maybe the campaign too.

ZOS_PeterT

PVP tends to be fairly competitive and this being the case, disagreements and tempers do tend to rise.

We understand this, however we ask that all posts still refrain from excessive baiting and flaming of other players.

This allows for our forums to be a constructive place even when two alliances prepare for battle!

Please continue your conversation with this in mind.

Adenoma

@Reverb , it is really a shame. I'll say a couple things before I dip out of here:

I think it reflects poorly on AD that people are talking trash while we do have a huge population advantage. It's easy to talk trash when you have overwhelming manpower. Frankly, I'm embarrassed that people are doing that.

I think it reflects poorly on DC that people are unwilling to hear others perspectives. An AD telling you how AD is working might offer you perspective. You have a numbers advantage to overcome - and this can be done with small groups. I know that my guild has coordinated well with 6-8 man groups and taken well-defended keeps quickly and without stress.

I think it reflects poorly on EP that... well, nothing reflects poorly on EP because they aren't here anymore. Seriously, please come back.

And maybe it reflects poorly on ZOS that they kept this thread alive. We'll see if they stand by that decision.

I've got my fingers crossed that things become a little more open-minded and a lot less contrarian in this thread.

DeadlyRecluse

ŞσƦѦ wrote: »

It just flabbergasts me when I come to read the thread in the morning and see AD trash talking DC members for "running" from their zerg.

Agreed 100 percent.

The "you ran from our superior numbers" taunt is a really weird one, in any context and regardless of campaign population.

EdmundTowers

Yes, a group of 20 is such a MASSIVE zerg. I give props to DC for defending well at Ash. But please stop overdramatizing.

ŞσƦѦ

EdmundTowers wrote: »

Yes, a group of 20 is such a MASSIVE zerg. I give props to DC for defending well at Ash. But please stop overdramatizing.

A... group... of... 20....

You think you only had TWENTY people with you at Ash?

I.... TWENTY people?

I'm guessing you had 20 people in your zerg and are somehow trying to claim that only your zerg was there.

I just.... TWENTY people? There was more than 20 people on the 2nd flag alone when we first made it to Ash with the clutch save.

vamp_emily

I think there is a solution out there somewhere:

1. Do what Sora suggested, only give up to 12 players in an area AP. I personally don't think that would work, I like the idea but they would still be poplocked and might not even care about AP.

2. Reduce the campaign population. I think if they reduced the population then there would be a few things that might happen. Players would wait to play, making the over populated alliance not so overwhelming or players will get tired of waiting and create a character on another alliance making the campaign more balanced.

3. The two under populated alliances work together.
I know deep down in side this could work.. but it don't.

EdmundTowers

Yes it was 20. It may have seemed like a lot more to you because we ha put down forward camps.

TipsyDrow

EdmundTowers wrote: »

Yes, a group of 20 is such a MASSIVE zerg. I give props to DC for defending well at Ash. But please stop overdramatizing.

20+15+10=20
Math is hard.

Adenoma

I'd err on the side of @EdmundTowers , given that he was in the group and may have been leading them. Just my two cents.

ŞσƦѦ

vamp_emily wrote: »

I think there is a solution out there somewhere:
1. Do what Sora suggested, only give up to 12 players in an area AP. I personally don't think that would work, I like the idea but they would still be poplocked and might not even care about AP.

What I proposed is a little different than that. In the game I spent most of my gaming years playing there were "groups" and "raids". A group was up to 6 players. A raid was up to 24 players. A raid would not gain pvp credit for kills because it TRIVIALIZES pvp making it TOO EASY. What I suggest is that ESO adapt the same type of system but tweak it so raids only get credit from other raids instead of no credit at all. That way if you want ezmode zerg pvp you only get credit from other people who want ezmode zerg pvp.

When a player is killed the system would check your group size and the size of the group the player who was killed was in. If your grp size was 13+ and the person who died's grp size was 13+ you gain AP. If your group size was 12+ and the person who died's grp size was under 13 then you gain no AP as so on and so forth.

It worked very well and I'd love to see something like that implemented for Cyrodiil.

EdmundTowers

Feel free to call it more if you want. Anyways, Ive been taking pics of pop and map everytime i log on and log off. If the thead is still open ill post them later today, cuz im off to work.

ŞσƦѦ

EdmundTowers wrote: »

Feel free to call it more if you want. Anyways, Ive been taking pics of pop and map everytime i log on and log off. If the thead is still open ill post them later today, cuz im off to work.

Pics with time stamps have already been posted showing AD pop locked every day of this week.

At least Adenoma acknowledges the sever imbalance in numbers... please don't try to convince anyone otherwise, we all see it outside of those who willfully deny the obvious.

ŞσƦѦ

Adenoma wrote: »

I'd err on the side of @EdmundTowers , given that he was in the group and may have been leading them. Just my two cents.

You'd agree with someone on your faction? Crazy! You mean he wouldn't downplay it to make his sound defeats w/ emp buffs vs lesser numbers not look so bad? Insane!

vamp_emily

I often wonder if it is lack of math skills or AD can't see.

Time for an eye exam:
All AD members read line 6 for me

EdmundTowers

Sora, I'm the first to admit that DC has great players. AD has numbers. We've always had an extra bar over the rest of the factions. You bragged once on one of the previous closed threads that DC is so good they can take on all of AD's and EP's bars. Well this time, since we have emp, you got EP's bars on your side. So, what's different now?