Champion System in it's current state will become useless over time.

InFernalEntity

Currently, the champion system is working well for one reason:
There is a limit on the amount of champion points available to spend thus creating build diversity, which is what is intended.

However, over time as this cap rises it'll be easier to see where you don't need to invest. If the cap ever hits 3600, any player with 3600 points in combat with another max CP player would be fighting as if the Champion System didn't even exist. On top of this, most people's builds will be completed long before hitting even 3000 CP due to ineffective or useless passives.

Any stamina player wearing 5 pieces of medium armour can instantly ignore both Light armour and heavy armour focus in the warrior constellations, can potentially ignore both Magician and Arcanist in the thief constellations and will most likely ignore the entire Apprentice constellation as well as Staff Expert under the Atronach in the mage constellations.

Furthermore, currently some passives have similar effects but some are performing better than others which make them unfavourable while the cap stays low. (Elemental Defender + Hardy are much better options than Spell Shield or Armour Focus).

To make this system still as good as it is currently I think we should group certain passives together to free up more stars for additional USEFUL passives, so that if a greater cap is set in future it is still a struggle to decide what passives you need and what ones you don't. Obvious suggestions for this would be to group all 3 Armour Focus stars in to 1, group Precise Strikes and Elfborn together, group Warlord and Magician together and maybe group Arcanist and Mooncalf together. Passives like Shade are borderline useless due to skill point passives and should be changed to something more useful also.

I can't think of anything to suggest in place of the passives if they ever were grouped or removed but something along the lines of an increase/decrease in damge dealt/recieved by AoE abilities might be a good starting point.

I'm interested to see what other people think about this idea.

ADarklore

Well, you do realize that at the current rate of cap raising, it'll take several years before anyone can access 3600 points, and by then ZOS will have figured something out. Right now a majority of players are still far below the current cap of 531, and with One Tamriel, new players will be coming in who'll have to gain CP... and until a significant majority are near or above current cap, ZOS will not raise the cap very quickly.

InFernalEntity

I'm aware that it'll be years away but even now with only 167 points available in each constellation it's easy to decide what you need and what you don't need. Does it not make more sense to have more viable passives now than wait?

I'm also making the point that to keep builds diverse the champion point cap shouldn't be anywhere near 3600. And it's better to have some of these passives changed while the game is young than change them when many players are approaching a champion point cap of say, 1800?

SleepyTroll

Elder scrolls online: one tamriel, where everyone can be everything and no grouping is needed.

ADarklore

InFernalEntity wrote: »

I'm aware that it'll be years away but even now with only 167 points available in each constellation it's easy to decide what you need and what you don't need. Does it not make more sense to have more viable passives now than wait?

I'm also making the point that to keep builds diverse the champion point cap shouldn't be anywhere near 3600. And it's better to have some of these passives changed while the game is young than change them when many players are approaching a champion point cap of say, 1800?

I'm trying to figure out what you mean by 'more viable' because the fact is, many of the passives they put in the constellations are designed to not make players OP... because in PvP, any 'more viable' passives would give high CP players far too greater of an advantage over low CP players and may well cause them to quit instead of investing time into gaining more CP. Thus, the passives added are meant to offer diminished returns... as in, you will fill the best and most useful passives first, and after that you'll be left with the lackluster passives that won't make players any further OP but still give them something to invest points into.

Perhaps later down the road they'll come up with different ideas for changes or additional passives, but for now, they have much bigger fish to fry.

InFernalEntity

I agree it is a minor issue and there are important matters. By more viable I simply mean something more desirable than some of the passives builds will never use. I feel some of the champion passives are useless to certain builds and therefore can be completely ignored. Whereas if they simply lumped Elfborn + Precise strikes together you could introduce additional passives without making Elfborn completely uselss to stam builds or Precise strikes useless to magicka builds.

The same applies with the 3 versions of Armor Focus, I can only wear 5 pieces of 1 armour type so therefore I am never going to be required to invest in to more than one of these at a time. Straight away there is 300 champion points that I can invest that do not benefit that build at all.

I don't want the passives to be stronger. Diminishing returns is a must and the caps seem fine as they are. I just would like to see all passives available on the Champion System actually make a difference to all builds. Rather than have dead passives that do not apply or simply cannot be applied. Armor Focus is the most blatant example because of the fact it's 3 passives, and only 1 can be active at any time. What is the point in investing in to all of these when I can only have one in effect at any given time?

Lokryn

I honestly think they should leave the cap as it is now and focus progression on Item level.

Xvorg

Does anybody remember how many CPS Meth got before it was nerfed to 501?

Because at the begining, there were no CPs cap

Waffennacht

I know at least 2 players hit 3600 before cap introduced.

There are more useful CP trees now, before it was even worse.

KundaliniHero

Zenimax Press Conference:

Question: "Champion System in it's current state will become useless over time, any solutions to address this?"

Answer:
"Actually, that's a great question and the answer is yes we have been addressing it for the last couple years by implementing strategic tweeks that will hopefully render the entire game useless over time, thus covering up this small problem with a much larger problem. Let me explain since we are considered pioneers in this delicate experimental field; research suggests that by slowly assaulting the end user with frustration and boredom they will eventually leave the game freeing up the much needed time for us to hit happy hour at Chiles every work day. Exciting stuff right?"

Amdar_Godkiller

"RED" CP that matter

1. Hardy
2. Elemental Defender
3. Bastion
4. Quick Healing
5. Thick Skinned
6. Resistant

The red passives though seem to be generally useful though not too terribly OP. (the middle constellation's CP 120 passive
is pretty nice for PVP though

"Blue" CP that Matter

Everything accept melee expert, I think. Non ranged weapon atacks do not make up for tons of my DPS.

Pretty meh passives

"Green"

All are useful in the first tree, but aside from the level 30 insiration boost the passives aren't really compelling

All are Stam and Mag Recovery are best, but they all serve some utility. I like Windrunning

Dodge Roll and block cost reduction are the only one's I value, but I absolutely love the CP 120 passive bonus in this tree
Aside from that, this is the tree with the most worthless passives.

Xvorg

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

"RED" CP that matter

1. Hardy
2. Elemental Defender
3. Bastion
4. Quick Healing
5. Thick Skinned
6. Resistant

The red passives though seem to be generally useful though not too terribly OP. (the middle constellation's CP 120 passive
is pretty nice for PVP though

"Blue" CP that Matter

Everything accept melee expert, I think. Non ranged weapon atacks do not make up for tons of my DPS.

Pretty meh passives

"Green"

All are useful in the first tree, but aside from the level 30 insiration boost the passives aren't really compelling

All are Stam and Mag Recovery are best, but they all serve some utility. I like Windrunning

Dodge Roll and block cost reduction are the only one's I value, but I absolutely love the CP 120 passive bonus in this tree
Aside from that, this is the tree with the most worthless passives.

The attronach mundus has quite good passives, even better than some in the apprentice or the ritual. Riposte is great for tanks, while tactician is the best 120 points star. Combine it with eternal hunt. The thing is that it is quite difficult to get that star in a decent build

Regarding the green trees. War mount is way better than windrunning. A 2% movement boost is barely perceived, while a horse with no stamina cost while running is something you thank a lot in cyrodiil. Even more, if you give the horse a full improvement in stamina, it costs a lot to take you dow while riding, something that gankers hate.

Amdar_Godkiller

I only solo in PVP. I"m not a joiner, so I don't use a horse their. Basically I'm a DK Assassin type. War Mount is useless,
but the increase to health and magic regen while I sprint is one of the keys to my sustain. And I find the Windrunning
passive to be exceedingy noticable.

Amdar_Godkiller

I do agree that Atronach has utility for tanks but it is all but useless to maximizing a PVE DPS, though I do have
30 CP in it with my healer.

QuebraRegra

KundaliniHero wrote: »

Zenimax Press Conference:

Question: "Champion System in it's current state will become useless over time, any solutions to address this?"

Answer:
"Actually, that's a great question and the answer is yes we have been addressing it for the last couple years by implementing strategic tweeks that will hopefully render the entire game useless over time, thus covering up this small problem with a much larger problem. Let me explain since we are considered pioneers in this delicate experimental field; research suggests that by slowly assaulting the end user with frustration and boredom they will eventually leave the game freeing up the much needed time for us to hit happy hour at Chiles every work day. Exciting stuff right?"

just awesome.. can we get an applause GIG over here?

Rohamad_Ali

I'm reasonably certain they will add more stars in each constellation as time goes on .

Apherius

InFernalEntity wrote: »

To make this system still as good as it is currently I think we should group certain passives together to free up more stars for additional USEFUL passives, so that if a greater cap is set in future it is still a struggle to decide what passives you need and what ones you don't. Obvious suggestions for this would be to group all 3 Armour Focus stars in to 1, group Precise Strikes and Elfborn together, group Warlord and Magician together and maybe group Arcanist and Mooncalf together. Passives like Shade are borderline useless due to skill point passives and should be changed to something more useful also.

I can't think of anything to suggest in place of the passives if they ever were grouped or removed but something along the lines of an increase/decrease in damge dealt/recieved by AoE abilities might be a good starting point.

I'm interested to see what other people think about this idea.

yes , we have time man , we have exactely 15 years before have the cap of 1000 cp ^^"