Maelstrom Arena - Ice Level is Poorly Designed (Tanking Perspective)

Schemering

Maelstrom is designed to do with any char but I think when stepping into vet maelstrom you should not think to be tank healer or dd you should adapt to what the dungeon is throwing at you. Theres no need to taunt anything and in heavy armor one does not enough damage to kill mobs with reasonable speed so why anyone would stay in the arena with heavy gear is a mystery to me. I have 4 chars that tank regularly, 2 of them in heavy gear, but they always have dps gear with them also so when i go in the arena with any of them they do damage (dps gear on a tank is also very convenient when doing vet wgt so there are other reasons than maelstrom to have several sets to adapt to circumstances)

Molec

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

I was really excited to play Maelstrom Arena for the first time, today.

The first 4 levels were a ton of fun and I was having a blast - until I got to level 5, the ice map, where this game's ugly obsession with damage racing (a.k.a. do as much damage as possible, as fast as possible, or you lose) spat in the face of my tank build - which had been performing respectably in the first four levels - and turned Maelstrom Arena from a fun challenge into a damage race that my tank just couldn't win.

I have seen this ugly damage racing mechanic before in the City of Ash, dungeon. Either you melt the final boss as fast as possible, or you lose. There is no other way around it. It's an annoying game mechanic that forces you to play a certain way but I kept quiet because my tank could help out in that dungeon by drawing aggro and buffing my teammates - whose quick-dealing damage was the only way to complete the content.

But now, here I am in Maelstrom Arena, alone, on the ice level, and the game appears to be forcing me to play one way. I either respec to make my tank into a damage dealer capable of doing enough damage to kill the boss before the ice platforms disappear, or I don't get to enjoy the rest of the content. Would it be so hard to create a mechanic for that level that allows a tank-type player to reform ice platforms to prolong the fight? In it's current state, the ice level looks like a poorly designed level that forces us all to make similar builds and play the same way.

Taking Maelstrom is an oxymoron!

Ep1kMalware

Molec wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

I was really excited to play Maelstrom Arena for the first time, today.

The first 4 levels were a ton of fun and I was having a blast - until I got to level 5, the ice map, where this game's ugly obsession with damage racing (a.k.a. do as much damage as possible, as fast as possible, or you lose) spat in the face of my tank build - which had been performing respectably in the first four levels - and turned Maelstrom Arena from a fun challenge into a damage race that my tank just couldn't win.

I have seen this ugly damage racing mechanic before in the City of Ash, dungeon. Either you melt the final boss as fast as possible, or you lose. There is no other way around it. It's an annoying game mechanic that forces you to play a certain way but I kept quiet because my tank could help out in that dungeon by drawing aggro and buffing my teammates - whose quick-dealing damage was the only way to complete the content.

But now, here I am in Maelstrom Arena, alone, on the ice level, and the game appears to be forcing me to play one way. I either respec to make my tank into a damage dealer capable of doing enough damage to kill the boss before the ice platforms disappear, or I don't get to enjoy the rest of the content. Would it be so hard to create a mechanic for that level that allows a tank-type player to reform ice platforms to prolong the fight? In it's current state, the ice level looks like a poorly designed level that forces us all to make similar builds and play the same way.

Taking Maelstrom is an oxymoron!

-oxy

Leon119

Truewavesound wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Truewavesound wrote: »

You can't take a "pure" Healer (low dps, low defences) or a "pure" DD/DPS (with no heals or defences) in and expect success either. This is not group content and you need to forget about your group archetypes.

You will need to build to encompass survivability, heals AND DPS if you want to succeed on vMSA.

Although non-vet is faceroll, should be a cakewalk even with a tank spec...

Not strictly true, I did it on a stam DK just using rally on vet... last boss just took 7 attempts. you just need raw power on some form of resource recovery and None of this 14k health and less than 30k stam / magika crap that people roll with.

You say "not strictly true" then explain how you built to encompass survivability, heals AND DPS. LOL!

magicka nb :P

Leon119

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Leon119 wrote: »

Well this is your fault bringing a group role in a solo instance. Tanks are great and useful because they can keep agro of the rest of their group letting the other members do their job. However you are in maelstrom, a solo instance.... who are u tanking for ?.....

Troll post is troll.

Tanks are people too ... they should be allowed to complete the content just like everyone else. Some tanks, do, in fact. But, the disparity between them and damage dealers on the Leaderboards has existed since vMA's debut. I don't even have a tank that is vet and I get what the OP is saying.

yes tanks are people, i play as a healer and tank as primary roles and really dont like being a dd, however im not so stubborn to refuse to adapt to a situation and then call a nerf because what i consider a good build doesnt work in that situation.
this is exactly what this post is. someone who cant deal with something and instead of forcing himself to improve to solve the problem he just runs to the forums asking for a nerf. same as a child going to his mother to cry when he doesnt get his way. so many people have completed this content either because they were already good players or because it forced them to improve. this mentality of " i cant do this so it needs a nerf " is exactly the reason this game is getting so easy to the point of boredom. people who ask for this get no respect from me at all

GreenhaloX

I got stuck as well for a bit with the 5th ice stage of normal maelstrom, until a lot of good people gave me very good tips and recommendations (on the entire Maelstrom, as a whole). One of which is taking out the troll first, for this ice stage. I didn't realize before that the troll was priming the ice to break so the giant momma boss can break the ice platforms faster. At least, this is what I have been perceiving. Before, I kept on dying after the giant momma breaks all three platforms, and I fall into the frozen water and die. Well, taking that que, I took that troll out first every time, and it is normally a one hit kill in normal Maelstrom. The giant momma will normally manage to break 2 of the platforms, but I get her on the third. I also save my ultimate (standard of might) for the final showdown on the 3rd platform and fry herself quickly there. I believe she should be down to 25% by the time we get on the third platform.

I'm currently only at 3200 weapon dam, but pursuing a new armor and gear combo set to boost my weapon dam and dps. I have seen, without Maelstrom weapon, some are able to have weapon dam in the 4k. That is very good. I have since been able to breeze through all the stages of normal Maelstrom without dying once. However, vMA is more of a dps race, more than anything. With my current build, which is low in stam, I am having trouble with the 1st stage final round boss of vMA, which many others are saying he is still the lower and easier of the rest. Haaa! So, soon as I am able to craft the stam build I need, I'm heading back into vMA.

So, for the ice stage, if you're still stuck.. fry the troll first. I think he comes 3 or 4 times. Use the weapon damage sigil or any of the other sigils, if you need to and save your ultimate for the final showdown. Maybe this will help, as it did for me; although, I didn't use any sigil in normal Maelstrom, but it's not a crime or sin to use those, if you need to.

Ariisen

I guy I know got to Vet MA stage 7 using a heavy armor DK build some time ago (Black Rose, Agillity, Malubeth and Leki I think) so you can definitely do it on a "tank", just don't go in there with full tanking spec, you need to be flexible and adjust your build.

Dubhliam

Couple of points:

1. Stage five is NOT a dps race. The boss destroys the ice platforms on a percentage health basis. Once you lower the boss' health under 50%, you will have only 1 platform left to stand on. Make sure that platform is the one that has two buffs, and take both to kill the boss quickly.
2. Tank is a group role, as many have already pointed out. You CAN make a valid build around HA, similar to how players in Cyrodiil build their characters, but for solo PvE content, you are far better off simply going full DPS.
3. Normal?! Seriously?! Even with a tanky build normal Maelstrom is a cakewalk. This most definitely is not something that ZOS should address, you simply have to put some more effort into building your character and learning the math behind damage in ESO.

DocFrost72

Actually, boss 5 isn't a DPS check until execute range, and if you're careful, it is doable on a tank. She breaks each platform at a set health percentage, not a set time. 75% goes the first block, 47ish the next, 17 last bit. By the time she is in the 20% range, you can wait for her to do one of her long wind up attacks and start hammering her with executioner, killer's blade, radiant oppression, whatever execute you got. If you're a dk, just save your magma she'll for when she finally breaks the ice, pop it, and go as fast and as hard as you can.

People forget out DPSING the mechanics does not mean there are not mechanics.

bertenburnyb16_ESO

Leon119 wrote: »

Well this is your fault bringing a group role in a solo instance. Tanks are great and useful because they can keep agro of the rest of their group letting the other members do their job. However you are in maelstrom, a solo instance.... who are u tanking for ?.....

You can also solo play tank,have everyone bashing on you, and just deal with it while u slower(well slower than MAXDPSSUPERLEET@EPEEN) take down the threat, just not in ma because of crap mechanics
Also, this means people who play other roles then dps in group content are [snip], since they will have to totally respec their char, get new gear and all just to be able to do this
Lastly, not everybody likes to play dps

Leon119

bertenburnyb16_ESO wrote: »

Leon119 wrote: »

Well this is your fault bringing a group role in a solo instance. Tanks are great and useful because they can keep agro of the rest of their group letting the other members do their job. However you are in maelstrom, a solo instance.... who are u tanking for ?.....

You can also solo play tank,have everyone bashing on you, and just deal with it while u slower(well slower than MAXDPSSUPERLEET@EPEEN) take down the threat, just not in ma because of crap mechanics
Also, this means people who play other roles then dps in group content are [snip], since they will have to totally respec their char, get new gear and all just to be able to do this
Lastly, not everybody likes to play dps

Oh so you want vMSA to be nerfed so tanky builds can do the slower dps clears. Wont your next complaint be that full dps specs clear it so much faster then ? And since when is getting another armor set to do a different role so hard ? A couple afternoons of 2-3h running around gathering mats you will have enough for a full purple set of dps gear. Only weapons need to be gold. And if u dont like playing dps why are you doing MSA in the first place ? For that op destro staff you need to dps ? The daggers you need to dps ? Or the bow ?
This isnt about mechanics or anything. Its about whinners refusing to adapt and crying for nerfs

Izaki

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Kammakazi wrote: »

Maelstrom Arena has always been a damage race.

Your best defense is your best offense.

Has ZOS ever given a reason why it's a damage race? It doesn't make sense to me why they do that in a game where they themselves promote roles such as tank and healer.

You can tank that stage out until you reach the final platform. The DPS race only starts at the end.
You have to have at least some DPS races in the game, otherwise high DPS would be useless. The quicker you kill stuff the less they'll have the chance to kill you.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Are you talking about normal or vet maelstrom? I'm surprised you even got to that level as a tank. I beat normal maelstrom on a tank spec but normal is a cakewalk.

The rest comes from Eric Wrobel's love of DPS and burst. The best DPS is burst, the best tank is burst, the best heals is also burst.

Nerf tanks, Moar Damage!

Normal. Veteran enemy health bars take up too much resources for my tank build.

Oh, just normal. Normal is definitely beatable on a tank spec. I think I first ran it on a health regen DK. My tankiness was passive due to the regen so I could spend most of my time on DPS.

With the vet version you can see from the very first boss that this is a DPS race. Kill things fast before they get harder to kill or spawn more adds. ZOS finds it really hard to make content challenging without turning to DPS race mechanics.

If you asked Michael Bay to write a poem, there would be a lot of descriptions of explosions and helicopters flying into the sunset. If you ask ZOS to make a PvE experience, expect a DPS race. Its just what they know how to do.

i disagree. They do make good content, or did. Then there was this army of crybabies that took it away from everyone else. Now this is what we get.

We get left with dps race that crybabies cry about because they can't pull the 10k dps required in their heavt armour/resto staff build with skillbars equipped with nothing but shield buffs.

Whatever. At least it seems like zos has reached an equillibrium of content expectations, and are now ignoring invalid crybaby rage posts.

When was this golden age of great content? I must have missed it between ZOS completely switching gears after launch, ignoring PvP and developing 12-man dungeons that nobody expected or asked for. Aetherian Archive was one of the first trials introduced and the third boss is a complete DPS race. It's just that no one realizes that anymore because people burn through it so quickly, due to DPS. But back in the day that boss would wipe raid after raid with low DPS.

Izaki

Next up: ZOS NERF MAELSTROM I CAN'T HEAL THE FIRST BOSS TO DEATH !

Clarkieson

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

I was really excited to play Maelstrom Arena for the first time, today.

The first 4 levels were a ton of fun and I was having a blast - until I got to level 5, the ice map, where this game's ugly obsession with damage racing (a.k.a. do as much damage as possible, as fast as possible, or you lose) spat in the face of my tank build - which had been performing respectably in the first four levels - and turned Maelstrom Arena from a fun challenge into a damage race that my tank just couldn't win.

I have seen this ugly damage racing mechanic before in the City of Ash, dungeon. Either you melt the final boss as fast as possible, or you lose. There is no other way around it. It's an annoying game mechanic that forces you to play a certain way but I kept quiet because my tank could help out in that dungeon by drawing aggro and buffing my teammates - whose quick-dealing damage was the only way to complete the content.

But now, here I am in Maelstrom Arena, alone, on the ice level, and the game appears to be forcing me to play one way. I either respec to make my tank into a damage dealer capable of doing enough damage to kill the boss before the ice platforms disappear, or I don't get to enjoy the rest of the content. Would it be so hard to create a mechanic for that level that allows a tank-type player to reform ice platforms to prolong the fight? In it's current state, the ice level looks like a poorly designed level that forces us all to make similar builds and play the same way.

Maelstrom arena is a Time Trial

You get more points for completing the Time Trial in the fastest possible time with the fewest possible deaths

i applaud you for using a tank, but the nature of time trials is a race against the clock. Round 5 is the epitome of just that.

Tanking is a group role and sadly one that is dying as a necessity, especially when tanking “events” by which i mean content made easier with a tank seem to be few and far between.

Maelstrom is not a tanking event or a healing one although it encourages DPS characters to self heal defeating the point of healer builds for anywhere other than PVP, VMOL, and VSO.

ZOS seem to be loving DPS builds at the moment.

Burning_Talons

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

I was really excited to play Maelstrom Arena for the first time, today.

The first 4 levels were a ton of fun and I was having a blast - until I got to level 5, the ice map, where this game's ugly obsession with damage racing (a.k.a. do as much damage as possible, as fast as possible, or you lose) spat in the face of my tank build - which had been performing respectably in the first four levels - and turned Maelstrom Arena from a fun challenge into a damage race that my tank just couldn't win.

I have seen this ugly damage racing mechanic before in the City of Ash, dungeon. Either you melt the final boss as fast as possible, or you lose. There is no other way around it. It's an annoying game mechanic that forces you to play a certain way but I kept quiet because my tank could help out in that dungeon by drawing aggro and buffing my teammates - whose quick-dealing damage was the only way to complete the content.

But now, here I am in Maelstrom Arena, alone, on the ice level, and the game appears to be forcing me to play one way. I either respec to make my tank into a damage dealer capable of doing enough damage to kill the boss before the ice platforms disappear, or I don't get to enjoy the rest of the content. Would it be so hard to create a mechanic for that level that allows a tank-type player to reform ice platforms to prolong the fight? In it's current state, the ice level looks like a poorly designed level that forces us all to make similar builds and play the same way.

well, that round is NOT, a dps race. secondly, why you taking a non combat build into a solo combat arena and complaining about it?

It is indeed a dps race. If you don't melt the trolls they will break the ice. And the last boss with start shattering ice at low health

DocFrost72

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

I was really excited to play Maelstrom Arena for the first time, today.

The first 4 levels were a ton of fun and I was having a blast - until I got to level 5, the ice map, where this game's ugly obsession with damage racing (a.k.a. do as much damage as possible, as fast as possible, or you lose) spat in the face of my tank build - which had been performing respectably in the first four levels - and turned Maelstrom Arena from a fun challenge into a damage race that my tank just couldn't win.

I have seen this ugly damage racing mechanic before in the City of Ash, dungeon. Either you melt the final boss as fast as possible, or you lose. There is no other way around it. It's an annoying game mechanic that forces you to play a certain way but I kept quiet because my tank could help out in that dungeon by drawing aggro and buffing my teammates - whose quick-dealing damage was the only way to complete the content.

But now, here I am in Maelstrom Arena, alone, on the ice level, and the game appears to be forcing me to play one way. I either respec to make my tank into a damage dealer capable of doing enough damage to kill the boss before the ice platforms disappear, or I don't get to enjoy the rest of the content. Would it be so hard to create a mechanic for that level that allows a tank-type player to reform ice platforms to prolong the fight? In it's current state, the ice level looks like a poorly designed level that forces us all to make similar builds and play the same way.

well, that round is NOT, a dps race. secondly, why you taking a non combat build into a solo combat arena and complaining about it?

It is indeed a dps race. If you don't melt the trolls they will break the ice. And the last boss with start shattering ice at low health

Both magicka and stamina have a ranged interupt option. Crushing shock and venom arrow, respectively. Use that in the trolls, dps not required.

As for the last block, if you have an execute you're dealing 300% (or more) dmg anyway.

GrumpyDuckling

Leon119 wrote: »

bertenburnyb16_ESO wrote: »

Leon119 wrote: »

Well this is your fault bringing a group role in a solo instance. Tanks are great and useful because they can keep agro of the rest of their group letting the other members do their job. However you are in maelstrom, a solo instance.... who are u tanking for ?.....

You can also solo play tank,have everyone bashing on you, and just deal with it while u slower(well slower than MAXDPSSUPERLEET@EPEEN) take down the threat, just not in ma because of crap mechanics
Also, this means people who play other roles then dps in group content are [snip], since they will have to totally respec their char, get new gear and all just to be able to do this
Lastly, not everybody likes to play dps

Oh so you want vMSA to be nerfed so tanky builds can do the slower dps clears. Wont your next complaint be that full dps specs clear it so much faster then ? And since when is getting another armor set to do a different role so hard ? A couple afternoons of 2-3h running around gathering mats you will have enough for a full purple set of dps gear. Only weapons need to be gold. And if u dont like playing dps why are you doing MSA in the first place ? For that op destro staff you need to dps ? The daggers you need to dps ? Or the bow ?
This isnt about mechanics or anything. Its about whinners refusing to adapt and crying for nerfs

Hi there,

I disagree with your statement saying "This isn't about mechanics or anything. It's about whiners refusing to adapt and crying for nerfs."

The reason I disagree is because this discussion is entirely about mechanics. No one is asking for nerfs. Read the original post for this thread and you will see that I introduced a question about having a game mechanic introduced that would allow players the opportunity to reform ice platforms so that tanking-type players wouldn't have to damage race, as much.

Reconstructing ice platforms could be introduced in a way that requires a considerable amount of skill - consider a series of objectives that one must complete, while in combat, to reform an ice platform. If anything, it could be more difficult than simply dropping a boss as fast as possible - and introducing such a mechanic is in no way asking for a nerf.

The reason this whole discussion was started is because of the "one way to win" (fast damage) necessity that ZOS thrusts upon its player base. I get that it's easier to "adapt" and simply make a damage build, but the point is that ZOS is dismissing a defensive type of playstyle - a tank type of build which is designed to take a beating and outlast opponents - by including damage racing as a game mechanic. By making instances a damage race, ZOS is disregarding alternative game mechanics and forcing people to make the same heavy hitting builds.

Look at how many total weapon/armor/jewelry sets that ZOS has put into the game, and tell me it's not ridiculous that probably 90% of players run some form of these 7 sets in Maelstrom Arena - because they have to:

- Molag Kena
- Julianos
- Hunding's Rage
- Nightmother's
- Clever Alchemist
- Willpower
- Agility

It should be a red flag that ZOS includes game mechanics that force players to "adapt" to one playstyle (damage racing), and I'm surprised by how many people are simply rolling over and trying to turn this discussion into a learn-to-play issue.

KisoValley

Some posts on these forums truly amaze me.

Ghost-Shot

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

I was really excited to play Maelstrom Arena for the first time, today.

The first 4 levels were a ton of fun and I was having a blast - until I got to level 5, the ice map, where this game's ugly obsession with damage racing (a.k.a. do as much damage as possible, as fast as possible, or you lose) spat in the face of my tank build - which had been performing respectably in the first four levels - and turned Maelstrom Arena from a fun challenge into a damage race that my tank just couldn't win.

I have seen this ugly damage racing mechanic before in the City of Ash, dungeon. Either you melt the final boss as fast as possible, or you lose. There is no other way around it. It's an annoying game mechanic that forces you to play a certain way but I kept quiet because my tank could help out in that dungeon by drawing aggro and buffing my teammates - whose quick-dealing damage was the only way to complete the content.

But now, here I am in Maelstrom Arena, alone, on the ice level, and the game appears to be forcing me to play one way. I either respec to make my tank into a damage dealer capable of doing enough damage to kill the boss before the ice platforms disappear, or I don't get to enjoy the rest of the content. Would it be so hard to create a mechanic for that level that allows a tank-type player to reform ice platforms to prolong the fight? In it's current state, the ice level looks like a poorly designed level that forces us all to make similar builds and play the same way.

well, that round is NOT, a dps race. secondly, why you taking a non combat build into a solo combat arena and complaining about it?

Actually that round is a pure dps race after 50%, once she breaks the second island she will break the third if you don't kill fast enough. Though I do agree that its an interesting choice to bring a tank into vma, it requires you to fill all 3 roles by yourself so you shouldn't be expecting to go face roll it with your trials build, especially a tank.

bertenburnyb16_ESO

Leon119 wrote: »

bertenburnyb16_ESO wrote: »

Leon119 wrote: »

Well this is your fault bringing a group role in a solo instance. Tanks are great and useful because they can keep agro of the rest of their group letting the other members do their job. However you are in maelstrom, a solo instance.... who are u tanking for ?.....

You can also solo play tank,have everyone bashing on you, and just deal with it while u slower(well slower than MAXDPSSUPERLEET@EPEEN) take down the threat, just not in ma because of crap mechanics
Also, this means people who play other roles then dps in group content are [snip], since they will have to totally respec their char, get new gear and all just to be able to do this
Lastly, not everybody likes to play dps

Oh so you want vMSA to be nerfed so tanky builds can do the slower dps clears. Wont your next complaint be that full dps specs clear it so much faster then ? And since when is getting another armor set to do a different role so hard ? A couple afternoons of 2-3h running around gathering mats you will have enough for a full purple set of dps gear. Only weapons need to be gold. And if u dont like playing dps why are you doing MSA in the first place ? For that op destro staff you need to dps ? The daggers you need to dps ? Or the bow ?
This isnt about mechanics or anything. Its about whinners refusing to adapt and crying for nerfs

Dude read, no i do not want it nerfed, i never said that, the mechanics are just very poorly designed, that's what I'm saying, and oh a new set of gear is so easy to get eh, lol, plus resetting attribute points and perhaps morphs to, sure why the hell not...
And why do it? Why not, its there for people to do, to experience, oh wait no, only for maxDPSEPEEN ... Ma bad,
An no this is not just whining, its about making the content accessible to every play style not just dps

Saucy_Jack

Totalitarian wrote: »

Only the final 25% of the boss is a DPS race.

25% of the time, it's a DPS race EVERY time.

#SexKhajiitCologne

elias.stormneb18_ESO

With enough Champion Points the Rink of Frozen Blood really isn't that hard, at least not the normal version. I quite easily beat it with a tank-like character with about 250 Champion Points.

bebynnag

i completed it yesterday on a level 9 khajit sorc pet build tank 501 CP running morkuldin

Valn

Leon119 wrote: »

Well this is your fault bringing a group role in a solo instance. Tanks are great and useful because they can keep agro of the rest of their group letting the other members do their job. However you are in maelstrom, a solo instance.... who are u tanking for ?.....

For myself. Taking damage, survivability, sacrificing damage for extra defence....But it seems to be about doing damage. There's no challenges which require you to taunt mobs to stop them killing an NPC, or healing challenges. It only requires you to do damage.

Autolycus

As a tank since Early Access, I sympathize with you.

That being said, vMA is not tank-friendly. It's just not. There is no point in asking why, or to what extent, or if hybrids are okay, or if they will change it in the future, etc. It's not for tanks, period.

And no, Wrath does nothing to change that fact. It's not for tanks.

Browiseth

a legitimate complaint about poor combat design that forces the player into a certain playstyle, taking away from the idea of "play how you want to play" that the game likes to boast about otherwise

i see the usual "git gud" comments are already here

Autolycus

Browiseth wrote: »

a legitimate complaint about poor combat design that forces the player into a certain playstyle, taking away from the idea of "play how you want to play" that the game likes to boast about otherwise

i see the usual "git gud" comments are already here

To be fair, not every form of content in the game is going to seamlessly accommodate every feasible playstyle.

GrumpyDuckling

Autolycus wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

a legitimate complaint about poor combat design that forces the player into a certain playstyle, taking away from the idea of "play how you want to play" that the game likes to boast about otherwise

i see the usual "git gud" comments are already here

To be fair, not every form of content in the game is going to seamlessly accommodate every feasible playstyle.

It's not about "accommodat[ing] every feasible playstyle," there could be hundreds. It's about making content that doesn't force players into one playstyle.

Shadesofkin

There's a reason that the best defense is to kill it before it can mount up a defense of it's own.