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Maelstrom Arena - Ice Level is Poorly Designed (Tanking Perspective)
GrumpyDuckling
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I was really excited to play Maelstrom Arena for the first time, today.
The first 4 levels were a ton of fun and I was having a blast - until I got to level 5, the ice map, where this game's ugly obsession with damage racing (a.k.a. do as much damage as possible, as fast as possible, or you lose) spat in the face of my tank build - which had been performing respectably in the first four levels - and turned Maelstrom Arena from a fun challenge into a damage race that my tank just couldn't win.
I have seen this ugly damage racing mechanic before in the City of Ash, dungeon. Either you melt the final boss as fast as possible, or you lose. There is no other way around it. It's an annoying game mechanic that forces you to play a certain way but I kept quiet because my tank could help out in that dungeon by drawing aggro and buffing my teammates - whose quick-dealing damage was the only way to complete the content.
But now, here I am in Maelstrom Arena, alone, on the ice level, and the game appears to be forcing me to play one way. I either respec to make my tank into a damage dealer capable of doing enough damage to kill the boss before the ice platforms disappear, or I don't get to enjoy the rest of the content. Would it be so hard to create a mechanic for that level that allows a tank-type player to reform ice platforms to prolong the fight? In it's current state, the ice level looks like a poorly designed level that forces us all to make similar builds and play the same way.
The first 4 levels were a ton of fun and I was having a blast - until I got to level 5, the ice map, where this game's ugly obsession with damage racing (a.k.a. do as much damage as possible, as fast as possible, or you lose) spat in the face of my tank build - which had been performing respectably in the first four levels - and turned Maelstrom Arena from a fun challenge into a damage race that my tank just couldn't win.
I have seen this ugly damage racing mechanic before in the City of Ash, dungeon. Either you melt the final boss as fast as possible, or you lose. There is no other way around it. It's an annoying game mechanic that forces you to play a certain way but I kept quiet because my tank could help out in that dungeon by drawing aggro and buffing my teammates - whose quick-dealing damage was the only way to complete the content.
But now, here I am in Maelstrom Arena, alone, on the ice level, and the game appears to be forcing me to play one way. I either respec to make my tank into a damage dealer capable of doing enough damage to kill the boss before the ice platforms disappear, or I don't get to enjoy the rest of the content. Would it be so hard to create a mechanic for that level that allows a tank-type player to reform ice platforms to prolong the fight? In it's current state, the ice level looks like a poorly designed level that forces us all to make similar builds and play the same way.
10
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Kammakazi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Maelstrom Arena has always been a damage race.
Your best defense is your best offense.10 -
Leon119✭✭✭✭Well this is your fault bringing a group role in a solo instance. Tanks are great and useful because they can keep agro of the rest of their group letting the other members do their job. However you are in maelstrom, a solo instance.... who are u tanking for ?.....13 -
Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well this is your fault bringing a group role in a solo instance. Tanks are great and useful because they can keep agro of the rest of their group letting the other members do their job. However you are in maelstrom, a solo instance.... who are u tanking for ?.....
Troll post is troll.
Tanks are people too ... they should be allowed to complete the content just like everyone else. Some tanks, do, in fact. But, the disparity between them and damage dealers on the Leaderboards has existed since vMA's debut. I don't even have a tank that is vet and I get what the OP is saying.6 -
Ep1kMalware✭✭✭✭✭
✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »I was really excited to play Maelstrom Arena for the first time, today.
The first 4 levels were a ton of fun and I was having a blast - until I got to level 5, the ice map, where this game's ugly obsession with damage racing (a.k.a. do as much damage as possible, as fast as possible, or you lose) spat in the face of my tank build - which had been performing respectably in the first four levels - and turned Maelstrom Arena from a fun challenge into a damage race that my tank just couldn't win.
I have seen this ugly damage racing mechanic before in the City of Ash, dungeon. Either you melt the final boss as fast as possible, or you lose. There is no other way around it. It's an annoying game mechanic that forces you to play a certain way but I kept quiet because my tank could help out in that dungeon by drawing aggro and buffing my teammates - whose quick-dealing damage was the only way to complete the content.
But now, here I am in Maelstrom Arena, alone, on the ice level, and the game appears to be forcing me to play one way. I either respec to make my tank into a damage dealer capable of doing enough damage to kill the boss before the ice platforms disappear, or I don't get to enjoy the rest of the content. Would it be so hard to create a mechanic for that level that allows a tank-type player to reform ice platforms to prolong the fight? In it's current state, the ice level looks like a poorly designed level that forces us all to make similar builds and play the same way.
well, that round is NOT, a dps race. secondly, why you taking a non combat build into a solo combat arena and complaining about it?3 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'm not sure why you feel you should be entitled to running only one spec and complete all content.You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points5 -
Totalitarian✭✭✭✭✭Only the final 25% of the boss is a DPS race.PC NA CP 531+
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GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I'm not sure why you feel you should be entitled to running only one spec and complete all content.
I think you're missing the point. It's not entitlement - it's the designers of the ice level introducing mechanics that overvalue one spec (damage) and undervalue another (tank).
Think about it in reverse...
If there were a level in Maelstrom Arena where your character had to take a significant amount of damage and survive in a time period that only a tank spec could handle, then that level would be overvaluing tanks at the cost of damage dealers.2 -
Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Are you talking about normal or vet maelstrom? I'm surprised you even got to that level as a tank. I beat normal maelstrom on a tank spec but normal is a cakewalk.
The rest comes from Eric Wrobel's love of DPS and burst. The best DPS is burst, the best tank is burst, the best heals is also burst.
Nerf tanks, Moar Damage!Edited by Yolokin_Swagonborn on August 3, 2016 3:10AM1 -
bebynnag✭✭✭✭✭
✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »I'm not sure why you feel you should be entitled to running only one spec and complete all content.
I think you're missing the point. It's not entitlement - it's the designers of the ice level introducing mechanics that overvalue one spec (damage) and undervalue another (tank).
Think about it in reverse...
If there were a level in Maelstrom Arena where your character had to take a significant amount of damage and survive in a time period that only a tank spec could handle, then that level would be overvaluing tanks at the cost of damage dealers.
in vet you have to deal damage, self sustain & tank the mobs
there are DD builds, there are healing builds, there are tank builds & then there are maelstrom builds!4 -
Vangy✭✭✭✭✭
✭Its not a group role or solo role thing.... Mael dosent require a group role player yes.... It requires not just a SOLO role player but a specific kind of solo player that cranks out so much damage, stuff melts..... Kinda weird its designed that way.... Yeah a pure tank or pure heals cant complete solo content which is perfectly sensible... But do they really have to make us go full QQ Dps?(2)V16 Dk- stam dps/stam tank/mag dps
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GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Well this is your fault bringing a group role in a solo instance. Tanks are great and useful because they can keep agro of the rest of their group letting the other members do their job. However you are in maelstrom, a solo instance.... who are u tanking for ?.....
When I say tank for Maelstrom Arena I mean a character who is designed to take a beating and chip away at an enemy - not burst them down. Obviously I'm not running around in Maelstrom using Taunts - that would be a bold strategy, though.
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GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Are you talking about normal or vet maelstrom? I'm surprised you even got to that level as a tank. I beat normal maelstrom on a tank spec but normal is a cakewalk.
The rest comes from Eric Wrobel's love of DPS and burst. The best DPS is burst, the best tank is burst, the best heals is also burst.
Nerf tanks, Moar Damage!
Normal. Veteran enemy health bars take up too much resources for my tank build.0 -
notimetocare✭✭✭✭✭
✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »Well this is your fault bringing a group role in a solo instance. Tanks are great and useful because they can keep agro of the rest of their group letting the other members do their job. However you are in maelstrom, a solo instance.... who are u tanking for ?.....
Troll post is troll.
Tanks are people too ... they should be allowed to complete the content just like everyone else. Some tanks, do, in fact. But, the disparity between them and damage dealers on the Leaderboards has existed since vMA's debut. I don't even have a tank that is vet and I get what the OP is saying.
Not really a troll post, its basic logic.3 -
Gallifreyy✭✭✭Yeah i think you need to understand the game a bit better if you are trying to do normal maelstrom with a tank build and failing i would expect you to fail on vet like that but normal is questionable. Please take advice and dont be one of those players that struggles with everything.CP1000+Gallifreyy - DragonKnight - Imperial - EPDeath by Tray - Nightblade - Dunmer - EPMoustacheasaurs - Templar - Dunmer - EPZerief - Sorcerer - High Elf - EPAfro Leap - DragonKnight - Redguard - DC+ 4 other Lvl 50sDK IS BACK0 -
Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Are you talking about normal or vet maelstrom? I'm surprised you even got to that level as a tank. I beat normal maelstrom on a tank spec but normal is a cakewalk.
The rest comes from Eric Wrobel's love of DPS and burst. The best DPS is burst, the best tank is burst, the best heals is also burst.
Nerf tanks, Moar Damage!
Normal. Veteran enemy health bars take up too much resources for my tank build.
Oh, just normal. Normal is definitely beatable on a tank spec. I think I first ran it on a health regen DK. My tankiness was passive due to the regen so I could spend most of my time on DPS.
With the vet version you can see from the very first boss that this is a DPS race. Kill things fast before they get harder to kill or spawn more adds. ZOS finds it really hard to make content challenging without turning to DPS race mechanics.
If you asked Michael Bay to write a poem, there would be a lot of descriptions of explosions and helicopters flying into the sunset. If you ask ZOS to make a PvE experience, expect a DPS race. Its just what they know how to do.Edited by Yolokin_Swagonborn on August 3, 2016 3:44AM2 -
magictucktuck✭✭✭✭✭Actually arena 5 is like the only one that is not a dps race. Every mob spawn and broken platform is at a health percentage you can do it at your own pace. Except the last 10 sec u wanna kill him before the final platform.. Take the power sigial then if u need1 -
Sillouete✭✭Why are you taking a role that is exclusively for group play into an arena designed for solo play? Yes tanks are "people" too but the role of a tank is exclusively for group play, same as a healer, so you will have to make some changes in order to get through the arena. I can relate, i was a tank when it first came out. But like I said, you are trying to take a role that is by definition, for group play, and taking it to a solo arena. That is like me trying to go and solo Sanctum Ophidia only to realize that I can't because i need a tank and a healer, as well as other people.0
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Unsent.Soul✭✭✭✭✭
✭Is this a troll post? What's next , asking why healers cant complete MA or VMA?
Your tanking, Solo... why would you gimp yourself to having bad dps but great survivability when you're the only one there?Edited by Unsent.Soul on August 3, 2016 5:22AM0 -
Bobby_V_Rockit✭✭✭✭✭
✭In normal mode, a legendary bow can one shot heavy attack kill the icebreaking trolls. Kill the trolls as priority, I have a pretty crappy build and thought this was the easiest arena. But yeah, go ranged weapon for the trolls0 -
KenaPKK✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »Well this is your fault bringing a group role in a solo instance. Tanks are great and useful because they can keep agro of the rest of their group letting the other members do their job. However you are in maelstrom, a solo instance.... who are u tanking for ?.....
Troll post is troll.
Tanks are people too ... they should be allowed to complete the content just like everyone else. Some tanks, do, in fact. But, the disparity between them and damage dealers on the Leaderboards has existed since vMA's debut. I don't even have a tank that is vet and I get what the OP is saying.
People are people. Tanks are group role specs that people take on FOR THEIR GROUPS. People like you get perfectly good and challenging content nerfed to boredom for the rest of us.2 -
Totalitarian✭✭✭✭✭perfectly good and challenging content nerfed to boredom.
I'm hoping that new dungeons don't get nerfed. I'm glad vMA wasn't nerfed too. Those have already made me a better player.
I did wish nMA was much harder though, because it barely prepares you for vMA.PC NA CP 531+
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DRXHarbinger✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You had no hope in finishing it in a tank build anyway. You'd never do the crystal phase on round 9. No kill the spider boss before enrage timer kicks in. Just craft a medium set, change weapons and jewelery and you're fine. If this is normal maelstrom as you don't actually say then you can kill all adds with a single heavy attack. Bosses about 20 or so.PC Master Race
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Truewavesound✭✭✭You can't take a "pure" Healer (low dps, low defences) or a "pure" DD/DPS (with no heals or defences) in and expect success either. This is not group content and you need to forget about your group archetypes.
You will need to build to encompass survivability, heals AND DPS if you want to succeed on vMSA.
Although non-vet is faceroll, should be a cakewalk even with a tank spec...0 -
DRXHarbinger✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Truewavesound wrote: »You can't take a "pure" Healer (low dps, low defences) or a "pure" DD/DPS (with no heals or defences) in and expect success either. This is not group content and you need to forget about your group archetypes.
You will need to build to encompass survivability, heals AND DPS if you want to succeed on vMSA.
Although non-vet is faceroll, should be a cakewalk even with a tank spec...
Not strictly true, I did it on a stam DK just using rally on vet... last boss just took 7 attempts. you just need raw power on some form of resource recovery and None of this 14k health and less than 30k stam / magika crap that people roll with.PC Master Race
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Tamriel Hero
Grand Overlord
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Truewavesound✭✭✭DRXHarbinger wrote: »Truewavesound wrote: »You can't take a "pure" Healer (low dps, low defences) or a "pure" DD/DPS (with no heals or defences) in and expect success either. This is not group content and you need to forget about your group archetypes.
You will need to build to encompass survivability, heals AND DPS if you want to succeed on vMSA.
Although non-vet is faceroll, should be a cakewalk even with a tank spec...
Not strictly true, I did it on a stam DK just using rally on vet... last boss just took 7 attempts. you just need raw power on some form of resource recovery and None of this 14k health and less than 30k stam / magika crap that people roll with.
You say "not strictly true" then explain how you built to encompass survivability, heals AND DPS. LOL!0 -
Ep1kMalware✭✭✭✭✭
✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »I'm not sure why you feel you should be entitled to running only one spec and complete all content.
I think you're missing the point. It's not entitlement - it's the designers of the ice level introducing mechanics that overvalue one spec (damage) and undervalue another (tank).
Think about it in reverse...
If there were a level in Maelstrom Arena where your character had to take a significant amount of damage and survive in a time period that only a tank spec could handle, then that level would be overvaluing tanks at the cost of damage dealers.
it is entitlement. when was the last timw you killed somethint by spammint block?1 -
Destruent✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭magictucktuck wrote: »Actually arena 5 is like the only one that is not a dps race. Every mob spawn and broken platform is at a health percentage you can do it at your own pace. Except the last 10 sec u wanna kill him before the final platform.. Take the power sigial then if u need
That's wrong. The last platform is HP (5...10%) or time based, whatever comes first. But nontheless it is doable with a tank build. I got to stage 8 with a templar tank doing 5k...7k DPS when i unleash my amazing burst
Edited by Destruent on August 3, 2016 11:38AMNoobplar1 -
Ep1kMalware✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Are you talking about normal or vet maelstrom? I'm surprised you even got to that level as a tank. I beat normal maelstrom on a tank spec but normal is a cakewalk.
The rest comes from Eric Wrobel's love of DPS and burst. The best DPS is burst, the best tank is burst, the best heals is also burst.
Nerf tanks, Moar Damage!
Normal. Veteran enemy health bars take up too much resources for my tank build.
Oh, just normal. Normal is definitely beatable on a tank spec. I think I first ran it on a health regen DK. My tankiness was passive due to the regen so I could spend most of my time on DPS.
With the vet version you can see from the very first boss that this is a DPS race. Kill things fast before they get harder to kill or spawn more adds. ZOS finds it really hard to make content challenging without turning to DPS race mechanics.
If you asked Michael Bay to write a poem, there would be a lot of descriptions of explosions and helicopters flying into the sunset. If you ask ZOS to make a PvE experience, expect a DPS race. Its just what they know how to do.
i disagree. They do make good content, or did. Then there was this army of crybabies that took it away from everyone else. Now this is what we get.
We get left with dps race that crybabies cry about because they can't pull the 10k dps required in their heavt armour/resto staff build with skillbars equipped with nothing but shield buffs.
Whatever. At least it seems like zos has reached an equillibrium of content expectations, and are now ignoring invalid crybaby rage posts.2