Ruins of Mazzatun Vet too hard

Valn

dw, killed it after 4 hours. it was a pug group, next time ill find a decent team

pretzl

Tbh it wasn't that hard. Just finished vet HM. Take your time to learn the mechanics and you're fine.

gamerguy757

Bruh...
I'm sitting here waiting for the dungeons to drop on console. Don't nerf them yet! Us FOREVER SINGLE people need a good challenge.

Mic1007

I find that one to be easier than Vet Cradle, honestly.

C0wrex

Good thing I brought popcorn

Vaoh

Stop it! No nerfs!

The DLC JUST RELEASED!!!! Why does everything need to end with a instant-gratification faceroll scenario with you people?

Learn some mechanics and use a decent build. Coordinate with your group. We don't need to nerf perfectly balanced content because you found out your PUG group couldn't beat it as easy as you could the other nerfed dungeons. If it's too tough, run it on normal.

Decado

Finished vet HM in around about an hour maybe hour and a half, had an absolute great time figuring out the mechanics etc. As far as I can tell there are no DPS checks it's pure mechanics learn the mechanics and it will be easy, it's been out a few hours you can't possibly have spent enough time to think it's too hard

Asmael

No, for once that there is a dungeon that cannot be completed naked, actually requires you to look at the screen and learn the mechanics, on top of communicating with your allies: NO.

This is definitely a dungeon I would never run with randoms, but for once that there is SOMETHING entertaining for 4 people, leave it alone.

Phinix1

This is obviously going to be a flaming troll thread where people just show up to ridicule the OP, but still...

I don't know if "too hard" is the best description as much as "badly implemented mechanics."

The Mighty Chudon (sp?) for example, has a very counter-intuitive telegraph for the player he is charging at that with particle effects going around can be practically invisible.

The group I was in bailed after 3 wipes on that boss out of frustration with not seeing the "red feet" indicator that you need to run behind the lightning lizard. The red circles were just randomly showing up and he would charge in directions where no one was even standing. It seemed... cheesy.

I'm sure some guides will come out for the last boss soon.

Valn

Asmael wrote: »

No, for once that there is a dungeon that cannot be completed naked, actually requires you to look at the screen and learn the mechanics, on top of communicating with your allies: NO.

This is definitely a dungeon I would never run with randoms, but for once that there is SOMETHING entertaining for 4 people, leave it alone.

Maybe that was the problem, running with randoms in group finder.

Valn

Phinix1 wrote: »

This is obviously going to be a flaming troll thread where people just show up to ridicule the OP, but still...

I don't know if "too hard" is the best description as much as "badly implemented mechanics."

The Mighty Chudon (sp?) for example, has a very counter-intuitive telegraph for the player he is charging at that with particle effects going around can be practically invisible.

The group I was in bailed after 3 wipes on that boss out of frustration with not seeing the "red feet" indicator that you need to run behind the lightning lizard. The red circles were just randomly showing up and he would charge in directions where no one was even standing. It seemed... cheesy.

I'm sure some guides will come out for the last boss soon.

Thanks for being respectful

To be fair, we weren't on teamspeak, we found a group through group finder, and we weren't exactly the best CP. I just think it should be removed from random group finder

Vaoh

Phinix1 wrote: »

This is obviously going to be a flaming troll thread where people just show up to ridicule the OP, but still...

I don't know if "too hard" is the best description as much as "badly implemented mechanics."

The Mighty Chudon (sp?) for example, has a very counter-intuitive telegraph for the player he is charging at that with particle effects going around can be practically invisible.

The group I was in bailed after 3 wipes on that boss out of frustration with not seeing the "red feet" indicator that you need to run behind the lightning lizard. The red circles were just randomly showing up and he would charge in directions where no one was even standing. It seemed... cheesy.

I'm sure some guides will come out for the last boss soon.

No. I think the issue lays with the fact that your group bailed on the entire dungeon run after failing only three times to Mighty Chudan.

1) They wanted to beat it asap
2) The mechanic actually required them to pay attention.
3) This got in the way of a faceroll runthrough
4) Disband

Please let me know if I'm wrong. Complaining for nerfs on Day 1 is honestly pathetic though no matter how you look at it.

As a side note, you can always look up Youtube videos of how other groups beat these bosses. Finding basic builds for your role online is also possible. As for CP.... 300CP is the max you need for Vet Maelstrom Arena, so it is definitely not needed here. CP160 is all that is truly required.

Valn

Doncellius wrote: »

Phinix1 wrote: »

This is obviously going to be a flaming troll thread where people just show up to ridicule the OP, but still...

I don't know if "too hard" is the best description as much as "badly implemented mechanics."

The Mighty Chudon (sp?) for example, has a very counter-intuitive telegraph for the player he is charging at that with particle effects going around can be practically invisible.

The group I was in bailed after 3 wipes on that boss out of frustration with not seeing the "red feet" indicator that you need to run behind the lightning lizard. The red circles were just randomly showing up and he would charge in directions where no one was even standing. It seemed... cheesy.

I'm sure some guides will come out for the last boss soon.

No. I think the issue lays with the fact that your group bailed on the entire dungeon run after failing only three times to Mighty Chudan.

1) They wanted to beat it asap
2) The mechanic actually required them to pay attention.
3) This got in the way of a faceroll runthrough
4) Disband

Please let me know if I'm wrong. Complaining for nerfs on Day 1 is honestly pathetic though no matter how you look at it.

Well they definitely need to nerf the rewards as i got a level 1 necklace! I admit I made a mistake saying to nerf, I guess I was frustrated it took me 4 hours to do it.

C0wrex

Hoo boy The new dungeons will be a doozy!

Phinix1

Doncellius wrote: »

Phinix1 wrote: »

This is obviously going to be a flaming troll thread where people just show up to ridicule the OP, but still...

I don't know if "too hard" is the best description as much as "badly implemented mechanics."

The Mighty Chudon (sp?) for example, has a very counter-intuitive telegraph for the player he is charging at that with particle effects going around can be practically invisible.

The group I was in bailed after 3 wipes on that boss out of frustration with not seeing the "red feet" indicator that you need to run behind the lightning lizard. The red circles were just randomly showing up and he would charge in directions where no one was even standing. It seemed... cheesy.

I'm sure some guides will come out for the last boss soon.

No. I think the issue lays with the fact that your group bailed on the entire dungeon run after failing only three times to Mighty Chudan.

1) They wanted to beat it asap
2) The mechanic actually required them to pay attention.
3) This got in the way of a faceroll runthrough
4) Disband

Please let me know if I'm wrong. Complaining for nerfs on Day 1 is honestly pathetic though no matter how you look at it.

I didn't bail, the tank did. Then the rest followed.

But still, I am giving my honest appraisal. I personally found the mechanics to be badly designed. Not bad like too hard, bad like bullet sponge 1-shot mechanic bad. Not specifically that, but that type of bad.

It would be better if the red circle followed the player being targeted. That way you don't need bifocals to see the terrible telegraph. I mean what is the point of the red circles anyway? They only show up once he has already set his charge destination.

Vaoh

Valn wrote: »

Doncellius wrote: »

Phinix1 wrote: »

This is obviously going to be a flaming troll thread where people just show up to ridicule the OP, but still...

I don't know if "too hard" is the best description as much as "badly implemented mechanics."

The Mighty Chudon (sp?) for example, has a very counter-intuitive telegraph for the player he is charging at that with particle effects going around can be practically invisible.

The group I was in bailed after 3 wipes on that boss out of frustration with not seeing the "red feet" indicator that you need to run behind the lightning lizard. The red circles were just randomly showing up and he would charge in directions where no one was even standing. It seemed... cheesy.

I'm sure some guides will come out for the last boss soon.

No. I think the issue lays with the fact that your group bailed on the entire dungeon run after failing only three times to Mighty Chudan.

1) They wanted to beat it asap
2) The mechanic actually required them to pay attention.
3) This got in the way of a faceroll runthrough
4) Disband

Please let me know if I'm wrong. Complaining for nerfs on Day 1 is honestly pathetic though no matter how you look at it.

Well they definitely need to nerf the rewards as i got a level 1 necklace! I admit I made a mistake saying to nerf, I guess I was frustrated it took me 4 hours to do it.

This I can get behind!

And it's okay. Seems like you had a kneejerk reaction to not completing it on your first go. Try again, I'm sure you can do it!

[Deleted User]

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timidobserver

How do you create a too hard thread the same day that it launches. Just wait for @Alcast to post a video showing you how to do it if you can't figure it out.

ScottK1994

Too hard but you used a PuG? Ive had really easy dungeons be hard with those:p

Totalitarian

IMO it wasn't hard at all. I still haven't finished it, mainly because the pillar event on the final boss is a bit hard to correctly coordinate, especially when your group dies within seconds, and you aren't that good with spotting things

But basically, it's 'don't stand in red' still. When I ran it to final boss, the problem the group had was as if they had to stand in red from the amount of times that they got hit to 2% on bosses.

The big turtle boss can get a bit RNG when you're far away from the Argonian shock things, so just keep the fight center, to do the best you can.

The Argonian Behemoth, IMO, is really easy. It's like the Planar Inhibitor. DPS boss until he hits 75%, then have one of the DPS (or tank) grab the poison on the ground. Don't let the healer do it, because they're silenced (unless you have a group that can actually keep their own health up). The healer needs to keep everyone alive while the tank keeps the boss occupied, and the DPS takes on adds. Once the carrier DPS cleanses himself in the geyser, clean up adds and DPS boss to 50%. Repeat until dead. The poison on the ground is like a combination of the Pinion and portals in the Planar Inhibitor fight. Don't leave them out in the open.

Final boss, DPS boss until she spawns totem. Kill totem. When adds spawn, kill them and don't let them reach the pools of stuff. Kill the shades of the bosses when they appear. Difficult part is going to be the totem event, because if your healer gets chosen to kill the totem, like what happened to me 70% of the time, and the group can't keep their own HP up, it's basically a wipe. Find a way to communicate with your team beforehand to find the totem to kill. Kill that thing ASAP to minimize risk of wiping.

ArchMikem

Valn wrote: »

dw, killed it after 4 hours. it was a pug group, next time ill find a decent team

You should update the topic title too so it doesn't lure people in here.

Nebthet78

I am sorry but I have to agree with the OP. This dungeon is far too hard for casuals. Most people are not going to be able to do this on Vet. We made it to the fourth boss before our tank had to go and then after another 10 deaths, the other dps and heals had to go. Everyone kept getting one shot by the By that time, we had gone through at least 20+ deaths.

They need to dial things back about 25% from what they are. The 30 extra CP don't do anything to make up for the severe increase in damage.

The Third Bosses (Mighty Chudan) Mucous Spray his for between 25-35k on players so that was a one hit kill no matter what.

If you do this on Vet, you need to have teamspeak no matter what. It is twice as bad as VICP and VWGT was when it was first released.

The one guild I am in also tried Trials tonight and AA is 10 times harder than it used to be.
The Storm Attronach, in addition to new mechanics has 51.7 million Health
Overcharge is hitting for 84+k.... there is no blocking that.
The Stone Attronach has 41.4 million Health...
Adds have over a million health each as well.

Frankly, dial it back a bit, or make a new third Elitist Tier for people who want that type of competition.

But this type of stuff is not fun to me and to a lot of other people. You complain that we are giving our honest opinions about this now with it just being released, just wait until the rest of the community catches up after the download. This forum is going to be flooded with complaints.

The rewards for doing these, does not come close to making up for the punishment of doing them.

Phinix1

Nebthet78 wrote: »

The one guild I am in also tried Trials tonight and AA is 10 times harder than it used to be.
The Storm Attronach, in addition to new mechanics has 51.7 million Health
Overcharge is hitting for 84+k.... there is no blocking that.
The Stone Attronach has 41.4 million Health...
Adds have over a million health each as well.

Frankly, dial it back a bit, or make a new third Elitist Tier for people who want that type of competition.

But this type of stuff is not fun to me and to a lot of other people. You complain that we are giving our honest opinions about this now with it just being released, just wait until the rest of the community catches up after the download. This forum is going to be flooded with complaints.

The rewards for doing these, does not come close to making up for the punishment of doing them.

Wow, that sounds horrible. Like why "fix" something that isn't broken?

Oh well. One more reason not to bother with trials I guess. For me anyway.

I just don't have the masochist gene.

Too bad.

ArchMikem

Nebthet78 wrote: »

The one guild I am in also tried Trials tonight and AA is 10 times harder than it used to be.
The Storm Attronach, in addition to new mechanics has 51.7 million Health
Overcharge is hitting for 84+k.... there is no blocking that.
The Stone Attronach has 41.4 million Health...
Adds have over a million health each as well.

disintegr8

Saying something is too hard because you cannot complete it on the first day is not quite right. You wait two months for a new dungeon to drop and you want to be finished with it in a few hours and if you can't you are not happy. Maybe it is just not a dungeon for PUG's - like vWGT or vICP - and you need a good well coordinated group for it.

Experienced people are always after more challenges in this game so let them have it as it is. If in a few months the completion rate is extremely low, then they should consider nerfing it but not before giving a lot of people a lot of opportunity to work it out.

Vaoh

@Valn One more thing. I'm positive I can solo the entire dungeon. It's what I love to do (Xal-Nur is scary though..).

If I can do it, I'll post the boss fights solo for you to prove it doesn't need nerfs.

Key word: If

Same goes for Cradle of Shadows.

Phinix1

Doncellius wrote: »

@Valn One more thing. I'm positive I can solo the entire dungeon. It's what I love to do (Xal-Nur is scary though..).

If I can do it, I'll post the boss fights solo for you to prove it doesn't need nerfs.

Key word: If

Same goes for Cradle of Shadows.

That's cool and all, but I hardly think one guy who makes it his life's work to "prove" something doesn't need tuning just because he can do it doesn't really make much sense.

And what would be the motive in pursuing such a proof? To revel in knowing the vast majority of people won't be able to complete something you can? To convince ZOS to keep it that way?

I don't think things should be TOO easy, but I don't think we should balance things to the extreme 1 or 2 guy outliers that play MMO's like Bruce Lee played ping pong either.

Not if ZOS plans to still have a marketable product this time next year.

If they want to make another vMSA for the extremophiles don't put it in the pledge rotation.

Vaoh

Phinix1 wrote: »

Doncellius wrote: »

@Valn One more thing. I'm positive I can solo the entire dungeon. It's what I love to do (Xal-Nur is scary though..).

If I can do it, I'll post the boss fights solo for you to prove it doesn't need nerfs.

Key word: If

Same goes for Cradle of Shadows.

That's cool and all, but I hardly think one guy who makes it his life's work to "prove" something doesn't need tuning just because he can do it doesn't really make much sense.

And what would be the motive in pursuing such a proof? To revel in knowing the vast majority of people won't be able to complete something you can? To convince ZOS to keep it that way?

I don't think things should be TOO easy, but I don't think we should balance things to the extreme 1 or 2 guy outliers that play MMO's like Bruce Lee played ping pong either.

Not if ZOS plans to still have a marketable product this time next year.

If they want to make another vMSA for the extremophiles don't put it in the pledge rotation.

Well it's simple.... I do it because it's fun! LOL

There is no special prize. However, we can all probably agree that if a single player (no matter the skill level) can solo a veteran dungeon, it is not in need of nerfs. Especially when said nerfs are being called for Day 1.

The difficulty is hardly vMSA-esque either. Not even close. That arena is a different beast from all except vMoL.

Calm yourself man! No need to puff up at me like that! You'd expect a "good luck!" or something when you attempt this stuff.

kadar

Nebthet78 wrote: »

I am sorry but I have to agree with the OP. This dungeon is far too hard for casuals. Most people are not going to be able to do this on Vet. We made it to the fourth boss before our tank had to go and then after another 10 deaths, the other dps and heals had to go. Everyone kept getting one shot by the By that time, we had gone through at least 20+ deaths.

They need to dial things back about 25% from what they are. The 30 extra CP don't do anything to make up for the severe increase in damage.

The Third Bosses (Mighty Chudan) Mucous Spray his for between 25-35k on players so that was a one hit kill no matter what.

If you do this on Vet, you need to have teamspeak no matter what. It is twice as bad as VICP and VWGT was when it was first released.

The one guild I am in also tried Trials tonight and AA is 10 times harder than it used to be.
The Storm Attronach, in addition to new mechanics has 51.7 million Health
Overcharge is hitting for 84+k.... there is no blocking that.
The Stone Attronach has 41.4 million Health...
Adds have over a million health each as well.

Frankly, dial it back a bit, or make a new third Elitist Tier for people who want that type of competition.

But this type of stuff is not fun to me and to a lot of other people. You complain that we are giving our honest opinions about this now with it just being released, just wait until the rest of the community catches up after the download. This forum is going to be flooded with complaints.

The rewards for doing these, does not come close to making up for the punishment of doing them.

This one does not understand...

Doing content, aka playing the game = punishment? Or...only slay powerful monsters for trinkets they leave behind? Khajiit is confused. If one thinks doing new content is punishment, one should not do new content. Let other khajiit who enjoy the slaying of hard monsters do new content in peace.

Phinix1

Doncellius wrote: »

There is no special prize. However, we can all probably agree that if a single player (no matter the skill level) can solo a veteran dungeon, it is not in need of nerfs. Especially when said nerfs are being called for Day 1.

I don't think we can say that, no. It would be like saying that just because one guy (Bruce Lee) can play ping pong with Nunchucks, that anyone should be able to. The logic doesn't pan out. Most people can't do that.

There are many factors. Not everyone has a high end computer. Not everyone has perfect high speed internet. Not everyone has hours a day to devote to perfecting muscle memory.

In fact, MOST people are not going to be able to "compete" on that level, nor would they want to.

One of the bigger failings of the gaming industry has been the push towards "e-sports" and the pursuit of elite competition, leaderboards, constant comparison, who has the bigger numbers.

It encourages shallow gameplay and tells the company they can skimp on immersion and actual content for the sake of some spreadsheet grinding mash-off.

Maelstrom Arena had the right idea. If people really NEED that sort of affirmation, then let them get it separate from the normal rotation of dungeon content.

Don't balance the game around a minority.

That said, I am not convinced the dungeon is "too hard," especially since the one group I tried it with didn't make it past the turtle boss.

I do think some of the telegraph mechanics are badly designed, which makes it tedious more than hard.

Vaoh

Phinix1 wrote: »

Doncellius wrote: »

There is no special prize. However, we can all probably agree that if a single player (no matter the skill level) can solo a veteran dungeon, it is not in need of nerfs. Especially when said nerfs are being called for Day 1.

I don't think we can say that, no. It would be like saying that just because one guy (Bruce Lee) can play ping pong with Nunchucks, that anyone should be able to. The logic doesn't pan out. Most people can't do that.

There are many factors. Not everyone has a high end computer. Not everyone has perfect high speed internet. Not everyone has hours a day to devote to perfecting muscle memory.

In fact, MOST people are not going to be able to "compete" on that level, nor would they want to.

One of the bigger failings of the gaming industry has been the push towards "e-sports" and the pursuit of elite competition, leaderboards, constant comparison, who has the bigger numbers.

It encourages shallow gameplay and tells the company they can skimp on immersion and actual content for the sake of some spreadsheet grinding mash-off.

Maelstrom Arena had the right idea. If people really NEED that sort of affirmation, then let them get it separate from the normal rotation of dungeon content.

Don't balance the game around a minority.

That said, I am not convinced the dungeon is "too hard," especially since the one group I tried it with didn't make it past the turtle boss.

I do think some of the telegraph mechanics are badly designed, which makes it tedious more than hard.

But I am not the Bruce Lee of ESO...... I'd have to use Cheat Engine for that comparison to work

I am a PS4 player as well so no 60FPS to help me. It runs badly on console these days (~10-20FPS with stutters in dungeons).

By this logic, that few can even complete moderately-difficult content, shouldn't we further nerf vICP and vWGT because you still need to follow mechanics to succeed? This all seems like an attempt to justify that these new dungeons need nerfs Day One, by saying almost everyone sucks to much so it has to be done -_-

Maybe it's just me...... but I fail to see how if you see a red circle, you can continue to run into it and not understand why you took damage. If you honestly cannot invest the time to follow mechanics and must faceroll it, you can play on Normal.