I wonder why people keep saying DK's can't heal

subtlezeroub17_ESO

Now, I have never played one but as I'm looking through their talents, it looks like to me that they have a lot of mitigation/shields and plus they have a somewhat spammy battle heal like NB with obsidian shard.

Now, of course they aren't templars but, no class is as good as templars with healing.

jeedrzej

Ehmmm.....
Obsidian shard is a crap XD

Our best healing is Igneous Shield > coagulated blood > burining embers.

But we need close range to this 5m

psychotic13

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

Now, I have never played one but as I'm looking through their talents, it looks like to me that they have a lot of mitigation/shields and plus they have a somewhat spammy battle heal like NB with obsidian shard.

Now, of course they aren't templars but, no class is as good as templars with healing.

you can't have an opinion on something you've never tried to play..

subtlezeroub17_ESO

jeedrzej wrote: »

Ehmmm.....
Obsidian shard is a crap XD

Our best healing is Igneous Shield > coagulated blood > burining embers.

But we need close range to this 5m

those are self heals though.

I am talking about group healing. lol

jeedrzej

Well.... there is cauterize.

Dk can heal.

There ale people who heal as Dk. Just for fun

So yes. Dk can heal

BohnT

Dk can heal very well. On PC/eu are some players who outperfom many templars with their DK healer. I think the only problem is that you have to put a lot of effort and work into a DK-healer to be competitive. What most of you don't consider is how well a DK can support its group. The only thing that the DK lacks in is that you don't have any skill tu restore stamina for your group members.

Toc de Malsvi

BohnT wrote: »

Dk can heal very well. On PC/eu are some players who outperfom many templars with their DK healer. I think the only problem is that you have to put a lot of effort and work into a DK-healer to be competitive. What most of you don't consider is how well a DK can support its group. The only thing that the DK lacks in is that you don't have any skill tu restore stamina for your group members.

Not quite.

While a DK can fill in admirably you are selling templars way short.

DK's have no way to remove harmful effects from themselves and the group. While DK's don't have the ability to give themselves Major+Minor fortitude, endurance, and intellect, while also giving allies Major fortitude, endurance and intellect. They do not get increased Resurrection speed, nor the passive mending.

Templar's are not the preferred healer by accident they have the best passives and utility skills for a healer.

That is not to say that DK's cannot be healers, simply their passives and skills are not designed around supporting a healer.

STEVIL

psychotic13 wrote: »

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

Now, I have never played one but as I'm looking through their talents, it looks like to me that they have a lot of mitigation/shields and plus they have a somewhat spammy battle heal like NB with obsidian shard.

Now, of course they aren't templars but, no class is as good as templars with healing.

you can't have an opinion on something you've never tried to play..

yes, you can.

STEVIL

resto staff, vigor etc... Dk can heal.

CasNation

DK is quite good as a healer. In my opinion, they are the second best after templar for the support they can bring to the group with Igneous weapons, minor brutality, crowd control and shields.

Nightblades are also interesting, but they don't come close to the support capabilities of the dk. They just add more damage.

Asmael

CasNation wrote: »

DK is quite good as a healer. In my opinion, they are the second best after templar for the support they can bring to the group with Igneous weapons, minor brutality, crowd control and shields.

Nightblades are also interesting, but they don't come close to the support capabilities of the dk. They just add more damage.

The only point of Igneous weapon besides the minor brutality is "I don't like flower picking". Dungeons are easy to the point where you can't even complete a full rotation, so might as well slot something to avoid burning time and money.

Crowd control is not the healer's job, especially not as a DK. If you're DD, you can have Deep breath for the interrupt, tanks will have talons & chains.

Igneous shield is the only saving grace, as Magma shield doesn't even remotely compares to Barrier.

If someone mentions Cauterize or Obsidian Shard, I'll seriously question him as a healer.

I've already healed through all vet dungeons and normal trials, the only thing you get as a DK healer is Igneous shields, the rest is redundant with buffs already available or just absolute subpar healing abilities. Yes you provide Minor brutality, but only if there's no mag DK or tank DK in the group.

Shaiba

As a templar healer and a DK healer, I need to answer in this topic

DK's are good at healing. In term of pure healing, all classes can do the job honestly (and in term of pure healing templar isn't the "master" class).

Why people prefer to play as a templar for healing purposes ?
Templar are great for giving ressources back (with next update (today ) and master resto staff 160 CP non-templar healer will be competitive again for this purpose), so if someone like to support his group by giving ressources back templar was the master for that (until today's update). Cause it's the easiest route.

Why people don't bother playing non-templar healer ?
Cause someone told them that "only templars can heal lolz", and yeah they won't try other classes but they'll repeat the same *** to new players. Rinse and repeat. Cause they don't want to support their team via the tools provided by these classes (CC, buff, shields, tons of damage, ...), they want to provide other support abilities. Cause it's harder to master than templar (if you want to be competitive in giving stamina back you'll have to farm a lot vDSA 160 CP).

It makes me smile when people says that resurrection speed is an advantage as a healer. As a healer our job is to keep people alive (even on templar), in 4 man dungeon if you don't suck your teammates won't die, in those cases this passives become almost useless, in harder raid you'll be too busy to rez, so again useless passive. The only time when I don't find this passive useless is for PvP purposes.

Major mending is easy to get too on all classes (templar it's activated on active skills too (you have to cast Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage to have it), DK it's an active skills (Igneous Shield), you can have it via heavy attacks from resto staff too for sorc and NB).

The only thing templar are better at is supporting stamina management, and clean harmful effects.

Now DK have great tools for healing too. Major Mending via Igneous Shield, good buffs for the whole team, AoE shields, Cauterize... They have the tools to be good at healing purposes.

I think @Autolycus can explain better cause he's playing a DK healer for long time than me.

OrphanHelgen

DK healing - yes.
But for support, I think they lack some skills. Allthough orbs are available, shards is still one of the top synergies out there.

Sinolai

I am a sorc healer using mainly resto staff, Undaunted and alliance war abilities. Sometimes 1-2 sorc skills slotted for CC and self-survavility. If I can do it like that so can everyone else.

GrumpyDuckling

Shaiba wrote: »

As a templar healer and a DK healer, I need to answer in this topic

DK's are good at healing. In term of pure healing, all classes can do the job honestly (and in term of pure healing templar isn't the "master" class).

Why people prefer to play as a templar for healing purposes ?
Templar are great for giving ressources back (with next update (today ) and master resto staff 160 CP non-templar healer will be competitive again for this purpose), so if someone like to support his group by giving ressources back templar was the master for that (until today's update). Cause it's the easiest route.

Why people don't bother playing non-templar healer ?
Cause someone told them that "only templars can heal lolz", and yeah they won't try other classes but they'll repeat the same *** to new players. Rinse and repeat. Cause they don't want to support their team via the tools provided by these classes (CC, buff, shields, tons of damage, ...), they want to provide other support abilities. Cause it's harder to master than templar (if you want to be competitive in giving stamina back you'll have to farm a lot vDSA 160 CP).

It makes me smile when people says that resurrection speed is an advantage as a healer. As a healer our job is to keep people alive (even on templar), in 4 man dungeon if you don't suck your teammates won't die, in those cases this passives become almost useless, in harder raid you'll be too busy to rez, so again useless passive. The only time when I don't find this passive useless is for PvP purposes.

Major mending is easy to get too on all classes (templar it's activated on active skills too (you have to cast Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage to have it), DK it's an active skills (Igneous Shield), you can have it via heavy attacks from resto staff too for sorc and NB).

The only thing templar are better at is supporting stamina management, and clean harmful effects.

Now DK have great tools for healing too. Major Mending via Igneous Shield, good buffs for the whole team, AoE shields, Cauterize... They have the tools to be good at healing purposes.

I think @Autolycus can explain better cause he's playing a DK healer for long time than me.

What is it about today's update that is changing giving resources to teammates?

Essiaga

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Shaiba wrote: »

As a templar healer and a DK healer, I need to answer in this topic

DK's are good at healing. In term of pure healing, all classes can do the job honestly (and in term of pure healing templar isn't the "master" class).

Why people prefer to play as a templar for healing purposes ?
Templar are great for giving ressources back (with next update (today ) and master resto staff 160 CP non-templar healer will be competitive again for this purpose), so if someone like to support his group by giving ressources back templar was the master for that (until today's update). Cause it's the easiest route.

Why people don't bother playing non-templar healer ?
Cause someone told them that "only templars can heal lolz", and yeah they won't try other classes but they'll repeat the same *** to new players. Rinse and repeat. Cause they don't want to support their team via the tools provided by these classes (CC, buff, shields, tons of damage, ...), they want to provide other support abilities. Cause it's harder to master than templar (if you want to be competitive in giving stamina back you'll have to farm a lot vDSA 160 CP).

It makes me smile when people says that resurrection speed is an advantage as a healer. As a healer our job is to keep people alive (even on templar), in 4 man dungeon if you don't suck your teammates won't die, in those cases this passives become almost useless, in harder raid you'll be too busy to rez, so again useless passive. The only time when I don't find this passive useless is for PvP purposes.

Major mending is easy to get too on all classes (templar it's activated on active skills too (you have to cast Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage to have it), DK it's an active skills (Igneous Shield), you can have it via heavy attacks from resto staff too for sorc and NB).

The only thing templar are better at is supporting stamina management, and clean harmful effects.

Now DK have great tools for healing too. Major Mending via Igneous Shield, good buffs for the whole team, AoE shields, Cauterize... They have the tools to be good at healing purposes.

I think @Autolycus can explain better cause he's playing a DK healer for long time than me.

What is it about today's update that is changing giving resources to teammates?

Masters Resto Staff regens stam with Healing Springs ... EDIT THAT ... grand healing ... the other morph.

GrumpyDuckling

Essiaga wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Shaiba wrote: »

As a templar healer and a DK healer, I need to answer in this topic

DK's are good at healing. In term of pure healing, all classes can do the job honestly (and in term of pure healing templar isn't the "master" class).

Why people prefer to play as a templar for healing purposes ?
Templar are great for giving ressources back (with next update (today ) and master resto staff 160 CP non-templar healer will be competitive again for this purpose), so if someone like to support his group by giving ressources back templar was the master for that (until today's update). Cause it's the easiest route.

Why people don't bother playing non-templar healer ?
Cause someone told them that "only templars can heal lolz", and yeah they won't try other classes but they'll repeat the same *** to new players. Rinse and repeat. Cause they don't want to support their team via the tools provided by these classes (CC, buff, shields, tons of damage, ...), they want to provide other support abilities. Cause it's harder to master than templar (if you want to be competitive in giving stamina back you'll have to farm a lot vDSA 160 CP).

It makes me smile when people says that resurrection speed is an advantage as a healer. As a healer our job is to keep people alive (even on templar), in 4 man dungeon if you don't suck your teammates won't die, in those cases this passives become almost useless, in harder raid you'll be too busy to rez, so again useless passive. The only time when I don't find this passive useless is for PvP purposes.

Major mending is easy to get too on all classes (templar it's activated on active skills too (you have to cast Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage to have it), DK it's an active skills (Igneous Shield), you can have it via heavy attacks from resto staff too for sorc and NB).

The only thing templar are better at is supporting stamina management, and clean harmful effects.

Now DK have great tools for healing too. Major Mending via Igneous Shield, good buffs for the whole team, AoE shields, Cauterize... They have the tools to be good at healing purposes.

I think @Autolycus can explain better cause he's playing a DK healer for long time than me.

What is it about today's update that is changing giving resources to teammates?

Masters Resto Staff regens stam with Healing Springs ... EDIT THAT ... grand healing ... the other morph.

Oh baby!

Moglijuana

I heal on my MagDK sometimes. It's more of a DPS/Support Healer for competent groups. PUGS will NOT do well with a DK healer. DK healers let you go with 3.5/4 dps basically because they can output decent dps as well.

Psyonico

My guess as to why people say that DKs can't break is that Stamina DKs are much more popular than magic, and stamina healing doesn't work

Toc de Malsvi

Shaiba wrote: »

As a templar healer and a DK healer, I need to answer in this topic

DK's are good at healing. In term of pure healing, all classes can do the job honestly (and in term of pure healing templar isn't the "master" class).

Why people prefer to play as a templar for healing purposes ?
Templar are great for giving ressources back (with next update (today ) and master resto staff 160 CP non-templar healer will be competitive again for this purpose), so if someone like to support his group by giving ressources back templar was the master for that (until today's update). Cause it's the easiest route.

Why people don't bother playing non-templar healer ?
Cause someone told them that "only templars can heal lolz", and yeah they won't try other classes but they'll repeat the same *** to new players. Rinse and repeat. Cause they don't want to support their team via the tools provided by these classes (CC, buff, shields, tons of damage, ...), they want to provide other support abilities. Cause it's harder to master than templar (if you want to be competitive in giving stamina back you'll have to farm a lot vDSA 160 CP).

It makes me smile when people says that resurrection speed is an advantage as a healer. As a healer our job is to keep people alive (even on templar), in 4 man dungeon if you don't suck your teammates won't die, in those cases this passives become almost useless, in harder raid you'll be too busy to rez, so again useless passive. The only time when I don't find this passive useless is for PvP purposes.

Major mending is easy to get too on all classes (templar it's activated on active skills too (you have to cast Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage to have it), DK it's an active skills (Igneous Shield), you can have it via heavy attacks from resto staff too for sorc and NB).

The only thing templar are better at is supporting stamina management, and clean harmful effects.

Now DK have great tools for healing too. Major Mending via Igneous Shield, good buffs for the whole team, AoE shields, Cauterize... They have the tools to be good at healing purposes.

I think @Autolycus can explain better cause he's playing a DK healer for long time than me.

This is definitively an oversimplification.

Shaiba wrote: »

As a templar healer and a DK healer, I need to answer in this topic

DK's are good at healing. In term of pure healing, all classes can do the job honestly (and in term of pure healing templar isn't the "master" class).
/i]

Might not want to get ahead of yourself there, many people play healers on both. All classes can heal, not all classes can give ultimate+resources to group.

Shaiba wrote: »

Why people prefer to play as a templar for healing purposes ?
Templar are great for giving ressources back (with next update (today ) and master resto staff 160 CP non-templar healer will be competitive again for this purpose), so if someone like to support his group by giving ressources back templar was the master for that (until today's update). Cause it's the easiest route.

Competitive? Shards gives 25% of the users stamina pool back instantly. That's not even considering Major Endurance or the extra stamina over time given by using shards. That dwarfs the master resto staff and really you don't need to compare the two because Templars can use that master resto staff as well to make their resource return higher than anyone else.

Please remind me of the other class that has a healing passive that does 10% more healing from their class healing spells? What other class has an entire class tree dedicated to healing? What other class offers an aoe cleanse that also grants ultimate to allies under 60% health?

Shaiba wrote: »

Why people don't bother playing non-templar healer ?
Cause someone told them that "only templars can heal lolz", and yeah they won't try other classes but they'll repeat the same *** to new players. Rinse and repeat. Cause they don't want to support their team via the tools provided by these classes (CC, buff, shields, tons of damage, ...), they want to provide other support abilities. Cause it's harder to master than templar (if you want to be competitive in giving stamina back you'll have to farm a lot vDSA 160 CP).

This has nothing to do with "only templars can heal lolz", with any kind of comparative analysis it becomes obvious that Templars have advantages towards healing. That doesn't mean no one else can heal. NB's have advantages towards stealth, that doesn't mean they are the only ones that can gank. It does mean if you want to focus on being a ganker or healer, that NB's and Templar's fill those respective roles more easily than other classes.

Shaiba wrote: »

It makes me smile when people says that resurrection speed is an advantage as a healer. As a healer our job is to keep people alive (even on templar), in 4 man dungeon if you don't suck your teammates won't die, in those cases this passives become almost useless, in harder raid you'll be too busy to rez, so again useless passive. The only time when I don't find this passive useless is for PvP purposes.

It makes me smile when players fail to see obvious advantages, just because you aren't the dedicated "resser" does not mean this is not an advantage. Provided the healer needs to rez, which class healer will spend less time ressurecting and more time healing? Templar.

Shaiba wrote: »

Major mending is easy to get too on all classes (templar it's activated on active skills too (you have to cast Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage to have it), DK it's an active skills (Igneous Shield), you can have it via heavy attacks from resto staff too for sorc and NB).

The only mention of Mending prior to your post is mine, where I mention Mending not Major Mending. Perhaps you are not as familiar with the class as you pretend to be?

Every class does have access to Major Mending, however DK's and Templars have the easiest access. Beyond that Templars have the passive Mending which increases their restoring light healing effects by up to 10% based on the severity of the targets wounds.

Shaiba wrote: »

The only thing templar are better at is supporting stamina management, and clean harmful effects.

And Mending passive, and restoring ultimate, and better magicka return for self, and more all around healing options. Only those few things though right, just a couple advantages.

Shaiba wrote: »

Now DK have great tools for healing too. Major Mending via Igneous Shield, good buffs for the whole team, AoE shields, Cauterize... They have the tools to be good at healing purposes.

Cauterize is unreliable and only works for throughput when stacked, Major Mending as already stated by you is available to every class so not a significant advantage.

"good buffs for the whole team"? WTF.....you mean Minor Brutality? Cause all the Magicka users gain a bunch from that... Templars offer Minor Sorcery so that isn't an advantage for DK's. As far as Major Brutality/Sorcery to use your logic from ressurection, classes will already be using potions for these buffs so they are not that useful.

DK's have ZERO class passives that help healing output, they have easier access to Major Mending than Sorc's or NB's but not easier than Templars. Every Dk heal is outperformed by Templar healing.

DK's offer unique healing tools:
Spammable AOE absorb, you need to be roughly stacked and the absorb is not very big, but it is useful and unique.
40% buff to resto heavy attack heal, through fully charged heavy attacks, at least it purportedly works now.
Spell Crit buff with random heal to close ally every 5 seconds.
Knockdown with random heal to nearby ally.

Of those tools, the spammable AOE is the only one that is significantly comparable to Templar healing.

The game is balanced such that the major advantages offered by Templars are not really needed. That does not mean that Templars do not have the best advantages for healing. Other classes have unique healing tools that offer different play styles that can perform fine.

Francescolg

If s.o. takes into account some specific item sets, which work best with the DK-healer, namely Trinimac's Valor.. The DK healer can even outperform a templar healer if and only if the group stays close, as the DK, practically, can spam his group shield (+ultimate,+bubbles [healing ward] while blocking (../etc..). This works also very good in combination with the IC-healer set, I just don't remember the name...

I am not going to describe again, how this works. Every competent DK-healer, who has tested Trinimac's Valor, will know what I am talking about and it's good, if people think templar are the best healers, as I prefer to have lots of templar healers in PvP (easier to kill^^), else than lots of DK-healers!

Please do not quote me! If anybody is interested in how a DK-healer (+ the proper sets) works, just look for my threads. Thanks!

Xvorg

Francescolg wrote: »

If s.o. takes into account some specific item sets, which work best with the DK-healer, namely Trinimac's Valor.. The DK healer can even outperform a templar healer if and only if the group stays close, as the DK, practically, can spam his group shield (+ultimate,+bubbles [healing ward] while blocking (../etc..). This works also very good in combination with the IC-healer set, I just don't remember the name...

I am not going to describe again, how this works. Every competent DK-healer, who has tested Trinimac's Valor, will know what I am talking about and it's good, if people think templar are the best healers, as I prefer to have lots of templar healers in PvP (easier to kill^^), else than lots of DK-healers!

Please do not quote me! If anybody is interested in how a DK-healer (+ the proper sets) works, just look for my threads. Thanks!

The problem with Trinimac's is that the heal and the shield in PvP are cut in halves. But in PvE seem to be pretty strong

Toc de Malsvi

Xvorg wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

If s.o. takes into account some specific item sets, which work best with the DK-healer, namely Trinimac's Valor.. The DK healer can even outperform a templar healer if and only if the group stays close, as the DK, practically, can spam his group shield (+ultimate,+bubbles [healing ward] while blocking (../etc..). This works also very good in combination with the IC-healer set, I just don't remember the name...

I am not going to describe again, how this works. Every competent DK-healer, who has tested Trinimac's Valor, will know what I am talking about and it's good, if people think templar are the best healers, as I prefer to have lots of templar healers in PvP (easier to kill^^), else than lots of DK-healers!

Please do not quote me! If anybody is interested in how a DK-healer (+ the proper sets) works, just look for my threads. Thanks!

The problem with Trinimac's is that the heal and the shield in PvP are cut in halves. But in PvE seem to be pretty strong

There's further issues than that and it's not as great as the above poster thinks it is. They started a thread back in February about the same thing trying to get traction on some OP build they thought up. Conveniently forgetting that both Trinimac's and Combat physician have cool downs.

Toc de Malsvi

Here is the best response on that thread mind its several months old:

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Trimac and combat phys both offer small bonus towards healing, there are far better sets for healers.

That is not true, the very strong armor proc of Trinimac's Valor procs as good as every time you cast a group absorb (+the synergy with the other armor), that are Igneous Shield or the Ultimate (after patch).

For spot-healing, the main and imo only, culprit of zerging in PvP, this combination (thread title) has become TOO strong, together with Mutagen + "Healing Field", you obtain very high spot-healing, which (thanks to all the procs, from combat physician + igneous shield + ultimate and Trinimac's) is TOO strong.
And this combinations work best on a DK-healer (2 group bubbles after patch). Combine it with some templars, and imagine where you go... (surely not anti-zerg)

Trinimac - 20% chance when you cast a Damage Shield on an ally to call down a fragment of Trinimac that heals allies and damages enemies in the area for 3667. Can only occur once every 3 seconds.

Even if it procs 100% of the time you cast a dmg shield you will only heal 3667 x 50% = 1834 healing once every 3 seconds. This is 611 healing per second for the allies in the heal area, how can this be considered OP?

Combat Physcian - Critically Healing an ally grants them a 8195 Damage Shield for 8 seconds. This effect has a cooldown of 6 seconds.

Even if you always crit heal an ally you only give them a 8195 x 50% = 4098 dmg shield, once every 6 seconds. One single 4k dmg shield isnt going to save your entire group. Again, how can this be considered to be OP?

I agree that Magma Shell will be strong but you have to remember that Barrier is limited to only 6 guys now, so in practice this wont change that much because groups will run less Barriers and replace them with Magma Shells.

Robe of Transmutation could be interesting for pvp healers though, you can basically give players crit resist worth of 6 pieces gold impenetrable gear with HOTs.

Here is the link: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/246471/healing-in-eso-too-easy-combat-physician-trinimacs-valor-dk-igneous-shield-magma-shell#latest

Shaiba

@Toc de Malsvi, calm down, don't need to be rude... Why are you so mad ?

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Might not want to get ahead of yourself there, many people play healers on both.

And ? I just said that cause we're comparing both templar and non-templar healing and I have played both (so I'm able to compare both classes). I'm not saying i'm the only one here nor the best. Sorry I don't understand your point here.

All classes can heal, not all classes can give ultimate+resources stamina to group.

(I fixed your post, you misspelled stamina, cause every classes can give magicka back.) If you read entirely my post, I talked about ressources later. And I said that templar have an advantage over the other classes here. And with today's patch, other classes will have the possibility to give stamina back too (without using a "low lvl" weapon).

This has nothing to do with "only templars can heal lolz", with any kind of comparative analysis it becomes obvious that Templars have advantages towards healing.

By giving stamina back (for ulti back see this post, i'll explain later why it's so laughable) ? This is not pure healing purposes, these are support purposes. These are the kind of support templars give to his group. Just like (as exemple) DK provides Minor Brutality to his group. It's an other form of support. An other option. Read the rest of my paragraph, I talked about people who don't play non-templar healer cause "they don't want to support their team via the tools provided by these classes (CC, buff, shields, tons of damage, ...), they want to provide other support abilities" (was talking about templar's one here).

What other class offers an aoe cleanse that also grants ultimate to allies under 60% health?

Were you talking about the use of the skill "Healing Ritual" (in combination of "Light Weaver" passive) ? The healing skill that have cast time ? That one ? And a radius of 10 metters (you talked about DK's shield low radius, but you know that Igneous Shield has a better radius than this one ? 12 > 10). And you're casting it when your allies are below 60% HP to give them ulti back ? And if they're not dead during the cast of the skill, they'll get 2 ulti back eventually. Yeah uber advantage over there ! And I understand better why you found that quick resurrect is a huge advantage... And I really hope you didn't think that cleansing ritual (and its morphs) was the same as healing ritual skill. Perhaps you are not as familiar with the class as you pretend to be ? Well, to answer your exact question, no class has an AoE cleanse that grants ulti back, even templar.

Description of the passive Light Weaver 2/2 (in english from my boyfriend's computer) :
"Provides bonuses for restoring light abilities :
Increases the duration of restoring aura by 20%.
Healing Ritual grants 2 Ultimates to allies under 60% health.
Channeling Rite of Passage grants a 16500 bonus to your armor."

That NB's and Templar's fill those respective roles more easily than other classes.

That's what I said, read me again, I said "easiest route".

It makes me smile when players fail to see obvious advantages, just because you aren't the dedicated "resser" does not mean this is not an advantage. Provided the healer needs to rez, which class healer will spend less time ressurecting and more time healing? Templar.

It's not just as important for a healer. I don't think that resurrect speed is such a huge advantage that it is determining for the choice of your class. It's a bonus for sure, but let's be honnest it's not much (or your teammates are dying often enough for you to feel it is a huge advantage, i feel sorry for you and your teammates in this case).

The only mention of Mending prior to your post is mine, where I mention Mending not Major Mending. Perhaps you are not as familiar with the class as you pretend to be?

Thx for being condescending. For your info, i'm sorry about this, my game isn't in english, i didnn't know that passive name in english, that's why I though you talked about major mending. Mea culpa on this, not sure you had to be so condescending about it. (again : why so mad ?) Certainly not after confusing Healing Ritual (which gives back ulti) and Cleansing Ritual and its morph.

WTF.....you mean Minor Brutality? Cause all the Magicka users gain a bunch from that... .

Yeah sure and for repentance all the magicka users gains a bunch on that too . But hell yeah, I won't deny that Repentance is a great support tool that templars has just cause of that kind of argument. And you shouldn't either.

Templars offer Minor Sorcery so that isn't an advantage for DK's.

Dude i'm not trying to prove that DK is superior to templar or vice versa. I'm just saying you have other options as a healer, you can provide something else with other classes. And that any option is as good as any other.

You won't provide the same "support" as a DK than with a templar, nor a sorc nor a NB, and it's normal. Why would you play one over the other if that would be the case ?

Every Dk heal is outperformed by Templar healing.

We're already overhealing nowadays, so what's the huge advantage of having way "more" powerful heals (10% via the passives) if we're already overhealing ? Sorry I don't understand your point. +you admitted it in your last paragraph :"the major advantages offered by Templars are not really needed".

DK's have ZERO class passives that help healing output

On your previous post, you didn't talked only about passives, you said "simply their passives and skills are not designed around supporting a healer" that's why I talked about healing tools (active one) + you added in your last post DK's healing tools, I can't understand you if you are just contradicting yourself from one post to the other.

DK's offer unique healing tools:
Spammable AOE absorb, you need to be roughly stacked and the absorb is not very big, but it is useful and unique.
40% buff to resto heavy attack heal, through fully charged heavy attacks, at least it purportedly works now.
Spell Crit buff with random heal to close ally every 5 seconds.
Knockdown with random heal to nearby ally.

Well, you know that DK have healing tools, so sorry, but I don't understand why you said :

simply [...] skills are not designed around supporting a healer.

You just prove the contrary.

The game is balanced such that the major advantages offered by Templars are not really needed.Other classes have unique healing tools that offer different play styles that can perform fine.

Lol can't say better, that's what I said previously. That's what I'm saying from the beginning. K Thx Bye.

CreepyPahuska

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Shaiba wrote: »

As a templar healer and a DK healer, I need to answer in this topic

DK's are good at healing. In term of pure healing, all classes can do the job honestly (and in term of pure healing templar isn't the "master" class).

Why people prefer to play as a templar for healing purposes ?
Templar are great for giving ressources back (with next update (today ) and master resto staff 160 CP non-templar healer will be competitive again for this purpose), so if someone like to support his group by giving ressources back templar was the master for that (until today's update). Cause it's the easiest route.

Why people don't bother playing non-templar healer ?
Cause someone told them that "only templars can heal lolz", and yeah they won't try other classes but they'll repeat the same *** to new players. Rinse and repeat. Cause they don't want to support their team via the tools provided by these classes (CC, buff, shields, tons of damage, ...), they want to provide other support abilities. Cause it's harder to master than templar (if you want to be competitive in giving stamina back you'll have to farm a lot vDSA 160 CP).

It makes me smile when people says that resurrection speed is an advantage as a healer. As a healer our job is to keep people alive (even on templar), in 4 man dungeon if you don't suck your teammates won't die, in those cases this passives become almost useless, in harder raid you'll be too busy to rez, so again useless passive. The only time when I don't find this passive useless is for PvP purposes.

Major mending is easy to get too on all classes (templar it's activated on active skills too (you have to cast Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage to have it), DK it's an active skills (Igneous Shield), you can have it via heavy attacks from resto staff too for sorc and NB).

The only thing templar are better at is supporting stamina management, and clean harmful effects.

Now DK have great tools for healing too. Major Mending via Igneous Shield, good buffs for the whole team, AoE shields, Cauterize... They have the tools to be good at healing purposes.

I think @Autolycus can explain better cause he's playing a DK healer for long time than me.

This is definitively an oversimplification.

Shaiba wrote: »

As a templar healer and a DK healer, I need to answer in this topic

DK's are good at healing. In term of pure healing, all classes can do the job honestly (and in term of pure healing templar isn't the "master" class).
/i]

Might not want to get ahead of yourself there, many people play healers on both. All classes can heal, not all classes can give ultimate+resources to group.

Shaiba wrote: »

Why people prefer to play as a templar for healing purposes ?
Templar are great for giving ressources back (with next update (today ) and master resto staff 160 CP non-templar healer will be competitive again for this purpose), so if someone like to support his group by giving ressources back templar was the master for that (until today's update). Cause it's the easiest route.

Competitive? Shards gives 25% of the users stamina pool back instantly. That's not even considering Major Endurance or the extra stamina over time given by using shards. That dwarfs the master resto staff and really you don't need to compare the two because Templars can use that master resto staff as well to make their resource return higher than anyone else.

Please remind me of the other class that has a healing passive that does 10% more healing from their class healing spells? What other class has an entire class tree dedicated to healing? What other class offers an aoe cleanse that also grants ultimate to allies under 60% health?

Shaiba wrote: »

Why people don't bother playing non-templar healer ?
Cause someone told them that "only templars can heal lolz", and yeah they won't try other classes but they'll repeat the same *** to new players. Rinse and repeat. Cause they don't want to support their team via the tools provided by these classes (CC, buff, shields, tons of damage, ...), they want to provide other support abilities. Cause it's harder to master than templar (if you want to be competitive in giving stamina back you'll have to farm a lot vDSA 160 CP).

This has nothing to do with "only templars can heal lolz", with any kind of comparative analysis it becomes obvious that Templars have advantages towards healing. That doesn't mean no one else can heal. NB's have advantages towards stealth, that doesn't mean they are the only ones that can gank. It does mean if you want to focus on being a ganker or healer, that NB's and Templar's fill those respective roles more easily than other classes.

Shaiba wrote: »

It makes me smile when people says that resurrection speed is an advantage as a healer. As a healer our job is to keep people alive (even on templar), in 4 man dungeon if you don't suck your teammates won't die, in those cases this passives become almost useless, in harder raid you'll be too busy to rez, so again useless passive. The only time when I don't find this passive useless is for PvP purposes.

It makes me smile when players fail to see obvious advantages, just because you aren't the dedicated "resser" does not mean this is not an advantage. Provided the healer needs to rez, which class healer will spend less time ressurecting and more time healing? Templar.

Shaiba wrote: »

Major mending is easy to get too on all classes (templar it's activated on active skills too (you have to cast Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage to have it), DK it's an active skills (Igneous Shield), you can have it via heavy attacks from resto staff too for sorc and NB).

The only mention of Mending prior to your post is mine, where I mention Mending not Major Mending. Perhaps you are not as familiar with the class as you pretend to be?

Every class does have access to Major Mending, however DK's and Templars have the easiest access. Beyond that Templars have the passive Mending which increases their restoring light healing effects by up to 10% based on the severity of the targets wounds.

Shaiba wrote: »

The only thing templar are better at is supporting stamina management, and clean harmful effects.

And Mending passive, and restoring ultimate, and better magicka return for self, and more all around healing options. Only those few things though right, just a couple advantages.

Shaiba wrote: »

Now DK have great tools for healing too. Major Mending via Igneous Shield, good buffs for the whole team, AoE shields, Cauterize... They have the tools to be good at healing purposes.

Cauterize is unreliable and only works for throughput when stacked, Major Mending as already stated by you is available to every class so not a significant advantage.

"good buffs for the whole team"? WTF.....you mean Minor Brutality? Cause all the Magicka users gain a bunch from that... Templars offer Minor Sorcery so that isn't an advantage for DK's. As far as Major Brutality/Sorcery to use your logic from ressurection, classes will already be using potions for these buffs so they are not that useful.

DK's have ZERO class passives that help healing output, they have easier access to Major Mending than Sorc's or NB's but not easier than Templars. Every Dk heal is outperformed by Templar healing.

DK's offer unique healing tools:
Spammable AOE absorb, you need to be roughly stacked and the absorb is not very big, but it is useful and unique.
40% buff to resto heavy attack heal, through fully charged heavy attacks, at least it purportedly works now.
Spell Crit buff with random heal to close ally every 5 seconds.
Knockdown with random heal to nearby ally.

Of those tools, the spammable AOE is the only one that is significantly comparable to Templar healing.

The game is balanced such that the major advantages offered by Templars are not really needed. That does not mean that Templars do not have the best advantages for healing. Other classes have unique healing tools that offer different play styles that can perform fine.

What I read here is just a list of the advantages of playing as a templar healer, yet you seem to say that those advantages are somehow superior to those of the other classes, but I don't see any arguments going toward that...

First, can someone please explain what's up with the hype of stamina management ? Seriously, everywhere on this forum I see people bringing shards and repentance as if it where the holy grail of healing. Yourself seem to think it's a big advantage, yet, i'll just quote yourself when you were speaking about Minor Brutality :

Cause all the Magicka users gain a bunch from that...

Second, resurrect speed ? To be honnest, It's so insignificant that I'd hardly call that an advantage. My main is a tank, and if you ask me what I would prefer in my group between someone that can resurrect me or the DDs faster, or someone that will bring a bit more DPS, CC or Buffs, I would certainly not choose option n°1.

Third, you mentioned that templar can restore ultimate... I think we need to clarify things here. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you made a mistake. The skill that gives ultimate to allies under 60% is the healing ritual, not the cleansing ritual. So basically, you have to wait till your ally goes under 60% HP, then use a skill with a cast time (1.5 seconds if I'm correct) to grant him 2 Ultimate. Here again I wouldn't call that an advantage. The first reason is because, I don't know about you, but my healer(s) usually avoid letting me go below 60% of HP. The second reason is that I have yet to see a good healer slotting healing ritual.
Perhaps you are not as familiar with the class as you pretend to be?

Fourth, templars may have a whole tree dedicated to healing, that doesn't means all the skills in this tree are usefull. I talked about Healing Ritual already. The only thing I would add about it is that beside not being an advantage, I'd even call it a DISadvantage. Slotting this skill and the Rite of passage are exactly what makes a bad healer. I would even call it misleading. If say cauterize is unreliable, I don't think there is a word that would tell how much those skills sucks. 2 bad skills on a 6 skills tree is painful...

So yeah... feel free to enlighten me about the superiority of the templar's healing advantages over the DK's. Obviously, there's some hidden superpower I do not see...

On another note, maybe you should try to relax. It's a discussion, there's no need to be that mad.
Oh, and when you question other people's knowledge, make sure yours has no major flaws (if you see what I'm talking about)

SolarCat02

Dragonknights are good healers, but you need a different approach than templars.

A Dragonknight healer must be proactive (most of your heals are heal over time) and predict damage. This is much easier to do if you know your group and/or the dungeon, but with practice you can also heal PUGs very successfully. The heals over time do make some of ESO's "healer sets" like Bogdan a bit less gimmicky than they would be for a templar since they will proc more often, but you are still better off raising your spell power and max magicka instead.

A Dragonknight healer can also contribute to prevention. You will be Spamming igneous shield anyway for the major mending, so that's one shield. The Magma ultimate is also nice, although in my case the shield for Barrier is usually a bigger shield for the group (since the group version of Magma scales off each player's health, so awesome for the tank but usually less than Barrier for the damage dealers).

A Dragonknight healer is more durable (at least in my experience!) and can contribute dps (with many options geared towards stealing health). My healer has a nice AoE setup on her back bar for helping with burning mobs, with a focus on more healing and group buffs on boss fights. This also means she survives fairly well if surrounded. Also increases the odds of success in a PUG.

Dragonknights have a lot of strengths. If you thoroughly understand them, you can outshine any healer who can't say the same, and hold your own with any who can make the same claim. Dragonknights can't give stamina the same way a Templar can, it's true. I feel their strengths certainly make up for that weakness. (Still want a CP160 Master Restoration Staff once the DLC hits console!)

For the record, I am not a fan of Cauterize (I tried to fit it into my build but now use the damage morph instead on my AoE bar), and while Obsidian Shard can be awesome at lower levels, in my opinion it's more a soloing ability for low-level Dragonknights until you level enough to unlock better survivability options.

Trinimac's Valor is a fun, solid set, but I wouldn't say it's Best in Slot. I currently use it paired with Julianos and one piece Molag Kena, but once I get a full set of Spell Power Cure I will probably drop Trinimac in favor of a more traditional setup.

My thoughts, for what they are worth!

Toc de Malsvi

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Competitive? Shards gives 25% of the users stamina pool back instantly. That's not even considering Major Endurance or the extra stamina over time given by using shards. That dwarfs the master resto staff and really you don't need to compare the two because Templars can use that master resto staff as well to make their resource return higher than anyone else.

Please remind me of the other class that has a healing passive that does 10% more healing from their class healing spells? What other class has an entire class tree dedicated to healing? What other class offers an aoe cleanse that also grants ultimate to allies under 60% health?

Well albeit that looks bad, I can tell you it is a result of trying to type too much and read what I typed too fast. I mentioned one and then the other then thought it was too unclear and cut it down to one sentence. Which then created of course an ability that does not exist.

I've found Healing Ritual to be very effect from the healers I've encountered using it, it has to be used almost predicatively though and does require stacking akin to the DK shield. The ultimate return is simply something that Templar healers can offer to the group that other healers cannot offer. It does require a more advanced skill requirement to use effectively.

@Shaiba

cause every classes can give magicka back

I don't think this is true, while passives through CP can give Magicka back, and Undaunted can give Magicka back I'm pretty sure other class skill lines do not offer Magicka return.

Templar's offer magicka return from luminous shards as well as Major Intellect.

Well, you know that DK have healing tools, so sorry, but I don't understand why you said :
simply [...] skills are not designed around supporting a healer.
You just prove the contrary.

No, I listed DK healing abilities, they are not designed around supporting a healer but have ways of healing. There is no obvious synergy between Cauterize, Obsidian Shard, Molten Armaments, and Igneous Shield. There are no class tree passives that support those abilities as a healer.

Healing on a DK is possible because of the healing options they have but it is not designed around supporting a healer.

Toc de Malsvi

CreepyPahuska wrote: »

Fourth, templars may have a whole tree dedicated to healing, that doesn't means all the skills in this tree are usefull. I talked about Healing Ritual already. The only thing I would add about it is that beside not being an advantage, I'd even call it a DISadvantage. Slotting this skill and the Rite of passage are exactly what makes a bad healer. I would even call it misleading. If say cauterize is unreliable, I don't think there is a word that would tell how much those skills sucks. 2 bad skills on a 6 skills tree is painful...

Healing Ritual is not a bad skill, it simply requires more attentiveness and predictive healing. For instance for boss mechanics that pulse every second and hit everyone, stacking on a healing ritual spam not only will keep everyone alive, it will give 2 ultimate a second to virtually everyone in the group.

Healing Ritual is under utilized because players default to more responsive healing styles, mostly because they run with players who have no interest in working as a team, or they run with pugs.

Toc de Malsvi

First, can someone please explain what's up with the hype of stamina management ?

25% of any resource pool returned instantly is huge. This allows tanks to run lower stamina pools and less recovery. This allows stamina DPS to run less recovery. Which means more defenses or utility for tanks, and more damage from stamina. DK's cannot offer that, sure DK's can lessen the potion cost by offering Major Brutality/Sorcery. But DK Healers cannot qualitatively offer the ability to go more offensive by offering a form of resource return from another player.

Templars were designed to be healers which is why uninformed players say things like "dk's cant heal", that does not diminish the fact that DK's were not designed to heal, and Templars were.

subtlezeroub17_ESO

Personally, I think they should tailor the DK support tree towards shield stacking. Instead of a heal, the rock projectile should be aimable at allies as a high HP shield that stacks.