Macroing: Acceptable or not?

Cazic

Is using macros for combos / skill rotations acceptsble or considered cheating?

I would assume it's considered cheating because it is technically using a third party program to enhance your game play. But in most cases that third party program is included with your mouse or keyboard and is already running in the background and serving other purposes. So how could it be identified as bring used in an unfsir way?

I guess I'm wondering how many people out here currently use macros to gain an advantage in PvP. Or if no one does because it is detectable and consodeed an offense.

UltimaJoe777

A macro is something that aids you unfairly compared to normal gameplay so yes this would be classified as one of those no-nos, especially since multiboxing isn't allowed.

incite

My opinion? Ban em all

Cazic

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

A macro is something that aids you unfairly compared to normal gameplay so yes this would be classified as one of those no-nos, especially since multiboxing isn't allowed.

incite wrote: »

My opinion? Ban em all

Fully agree. But... Is it actually detectable and if so, is action taken against people who do it?

I don't want to use macros and don't support it. But sometimes in game people get combos off so damn quickly that it seems as though they are using macros.

jkolb2030

Is this a joke....or are you serious?

The last I checked, this "macro" was from getting stuck in a skills animation (crit rush was the most common) to the point where you could continue to hit your other skills but they would not actually come out.. Once your toon finally left the stuck animation all of the skills you pressed would come out at once.

Your skill rotation is more or less acting like a queue and the queue pops when your animation glitch ends..

Bottom line - I don't think there is an actual "macro program" I'm 95% positive its a bug on ZoS server side.

Cazic

jkolb2030 wrote: »

Is this a joke....or are you serious?

The last I checked, this "macro" was from getting stuck in a skills animation (crit rush was the most common) to the point where you could continue to hit your other skills but they would not actually come out.. Once your toon finally left the stuck animation all of the skills you pressed would come out at once.

Your skill rotation is more or less acting like a queue and the queue pops when your animation glitch ends..

Bottom line - I don't think there is an actual "macro program" I'm 95% positive its a bug on ZoS server side.

I'm talking about the ability to program macros with a gaming keyboard. So it would activate your skills in a set order and timing with only having to press one button.

jkolb2030

Cazic wrote: »

jkolb2030 wrote: »

Is this a joke....or are you serious?

The last I checked, this "macro" was from getting stuck in a skills animation (crit rush was the most common) to the point where you could continue to hit your other skills but they would not actually come out.. Once your toon finally left the stuck animation all of the skills you pressed would come out at once.

Your skill rotation is more or less acting like a queue and the queue pops when your animation glitch ends..

Bottom line - I don't think there is an actual "macro program" I'm 95% positive its a bug on ZoS server side.

I'm talking about the ability to program macros with a gaming keyboard. So it would activate your skills in a set order and timing with only having to press one button.

Okay, I am aware of what a macro is lol - so then you are not referring to the actual clips of people whos skills pop all at once after getting stuck in crit rush?

Then yes, macros are exploits by altering the games mechanics. I'm not aware if its actually possible to set up a macro for ESO tho? Do you have anything concrete to lead you to believing you are not just getting hit with a combination of animation canceling/lag when PvPing?

Cazic

jkolb2030 wrote: »

Cazic wrote: »

jkolb2030 wrote: »

Is this a joke....or are you serious?

The last I checked, this "macro" was from getting stuck in a skills animation (crit rush was the most common) to the point where you could continue to hit your other skills but they would not actually come out.. Once your toon finally left the stuck animation all of the skills you pressed would come out at once.

Your skill rotation is more or less acting like a queue and the queue pops when your animation glitch ends..

Bottom line - I don't think there is an actual "macro program" I'm 95% positive its a bug on ZoS server side.

I'm talking about the ability to program macros with a gaming keyboard. So it would activate your skills in a set order and timing with only having to press one button.

Okay - so then you are not referring to the actual clips of people whos skills pop all at once after getting stuck in crit rush?

Then yes, macros are exploits by altering the games mechanics. I'm not aware if its actually possible to set up a macro for ESO tho? Do you have anything concrete to lead you to believing you are not just getting hit with a combination of animation canceling/lag when PvPing?

No I don't have anything concrete. And I understand the "bug" related issues you're referring to.

I've never tried setting up a macro for ESO, but software for gaming kwyboads generally doesn't care what game you're playing. Its simply connecting a series of keystrokes for you. Maybe ESO does have something built in to prevent this ... This is what I'm trying to figure out.

Oakmontowls_ESO

jkolb2030 wrote: »

Cazic wrote: »

jkolb2030 wrote: »

Is this a joke....or are you serious?

The last I checked, this "macro" was from getting stuck in a skills animation (crit rush was the most common) to the point where you could continue to hit your other skills but they would not actually come out.. Once your toon finally left the stuck animation all of the skills you pressed would come out at once.

Your skill rotation is more or less acting like a queue and the queue pops when your animation glitch ends..

Bottom line - I don't think there is an actual "macro program" I'm 95% positive its a bug on ZoS server side.

I'm talking about the ability to program macros with a gaming keyboard. So it would activate your skills in a set order and timing with only having to press one button.

Okay, I am aware of what a macro is lol - so then you are not referring to the actual clips of people whos skills pop all at once after getting stuck in crit rush?

Then yes, macros are exploits by altering the games mechanics. I'm not aware if its actually possible to set up a macro for ESO tho? Do you have anything concrete to lead you to believing you are not just getting hit with a combination of animation canceling/lag when PvPing?

He is talking about programs that do exist since most gaming mice have the a way to record macros. The question, however, is if these macros are even giving them any sort of advantage since you rarely are able to perfectly stick with a rotation and are usually forced to make adjustments.

SleepyTroll

Is permanent stunning people cheating/exploiting?

Rohamad_Ali

It's a banable offence .

Graydon

Cazic wrote: »

jkolb2030 wrote: »

Is this a joke....or are you serious?

The last I checked, this "macro" was from getting stuck in a skills animation (crit rush was the most common) to the point where you could continue to hit your other skills but they would not actually come out.. Once your toon finally left the stuck animation all of the skills you pressed would come out at once.

Your skill rotation is more or less acting like a queue and the queue pops when your animation glitch ends..

Bottom line - I don't think there is an actual "macro program" I'm 95% positive its a bug on ZoS server side.

I'm talking about the ability to program macros with a gaming keyboard. So it would activate your skills in a set order and timing with only having to press one button.

I don't pvp. I'm also too busy to take the time to program my keyboard. So I'm no expert, but how can anyone report or ZOS restrict keyboard or mouse programming?

Cazic

Graydon wrote: »

Cazic wrote: »

jkolb2030 wrote: »

Is this a joke....or are you serious?

The last I checked, this "macro" was from getting stuck in a skills animation (crit rush was the most common) to the point where you could continue to hit your other skills but they would not actually come out.. Once your toon finally left the stuck animation all of the skills you pressed would come out at once.

Your skill rotation is more or less acting like a queue and the queue pops when your animation glitch ends..

Bottom line - I don't think there is an actual "macro program" I'm 95% positive its a bug on ZoS server side.

I'm talking about the ability to program macros with a gaming keyboard. So it would activate your skills in a set order and timing with only having to press one button.

I don't pvp. I'm also too busy to take the time to program my keyboard. So I'm no expert, but how can anyone report or ZOS restrict keyboard or mouse programming?

Yeah, this is exactly what I'm getting at. Most people will say that using macros is exploiting or cheating or a bannable offense. But, how would zos go about actually detecting the use of macros?

I use Razer software included with my keyboard and mouse to program them in several different ways. The software is always running on my comp and is affecting the way my keyboard and mouse work. If I wanted to program a macro, how does that look any different on the server side?

SleepyTroll

Cazic wrote: »

Graydon wrote: »

Cazic wrote: »

jkolb2030 wrote: »

Is this a joke....or are you serious?

The last I checked, this "macro" was from getting stuck in a skills animation (crit rush was the most common) to the point where you could continue to hit your other skills but they would not actually come out.. Once your toon finally left the stuck animation all of the skills you pressed would come out at once.

Your skill rotation is more or less acting like a queue and the queue pops when your animation glitch ends..

Bottom line - I don't think there is an actual "macro program" I'm 95% positive its a bug on ZoS server side.

I'm talking about the ability to program macros with a gaming keyboard. So it would activate your skills in a set order and timing with only having to press one button.

I don't pvp. I'm also too busy to take the time to program my keyboard. So I'm no expert, but how can anyone report or ZOS restrict keyboard or mouse programming?

Yeah, this is exactly what I'm getting at. Most people will say that using macros is exploiting or cheating or a bannable offense. But, how would zos go about actually detecting the use of macros?

I use Razer software included with my keyboard and mouse to program them in several different ways. The software is always running on my comp and is affecting the way my keyboard and mouse work. If I wanted to program a macro, how does that look any different on the server side?

Probably would have to go through combat logs and see that every time you say went to use reverse slice .5 sec after you hit bash. But with server lag it probably would show different unless there was a client side combat log.

Personofsecrets

People use macros all of the time, the same people have been doing so for ages, and nothing will change.

jkolb2030

Well there are really 2 types of macros then...

If you set up a macro to execute your rotation at a normal speed one after the other after the other after the other , i dont see how that could really an harmful exploit.. It's just going through a sequence of moves in which you still have to aim and keep targets in range.

If you have a macro that is animation canceling and tying multiple skills together to come out faster than intended, I would say that is the negative macro that should not be allowed.

It has to be hard to set up a macro like that tho because of all of the animation cancelling that you would have to account for. It would be damn impressive if someone did manage to set one up like that with all the perfect timings tho..

rhapsodious

In a perfect world where latency isn't a thing, the client and server should be able to realize that no human would be able to press 4-5 key combinations in a fraction of a second.

Unfortunately, latency is a thing, and trying to limit the amount of keystrokes via a cooldown would cause far more problems than it would solve. And you get legitimate behavior that looks sketchy as hell, like the whole queuing-attacks-after-Crit-Rush thing.

(Good lord, "queuing" looks like an odd word.)

Other than that, there's probably an anti-cheat algorithm out there, but algorithms aren't my forte. But in layman's terms, it would be like "okay, this is what a human does, now looking at these logs, does this look like a human?" An example would be if someone used a macro to chain together 4 attacks, but the first requires catching a victim unaware. If I, the victim, block or do something else that would invalidate the rest of the combo, and the other parts of the combo go through anyway without regard to the fact that I effectively ruined the combo, it looks suspicious. For an easier to visualize example, you know how farming bots go in precise loops? And if you interrupt that loop, they don't change routine at all? Basically that kind of thing.

Runs

Cazic wrote: »

Yeah, this is exactly what I'm getting at. Most people will say that using macros is exploiting or cheating or a bannable offense. But, how would zos go about actually detecting the use of macros?

At this point you have now turned the discussion into "How do I get away with cheating"

ZOS_MollyH wrote: »

Hi @Casdha !

The use of gaming keyboards and mice are not prohibited, but the use of third-party software or other means of creating macros to automate in-game functions is a violation. I apologize for the confusion!

Just to clarify further, part of the Terms of Service document includes an agreement to follow other Supplemental Terms pertaining to Your Service and/or Game, such as a Code of Conduct, provide guidance on behavior that ZeniMax deems to be inappropriate and specify restrictions on Your Account, Your use of the Game, or Your participation in the Services.

There is a paragraph in the Terms of Service agreement that is as follows:

You agree not to use any hardware or software or any other method of support that is not authorized by ZeniMax or that may in any way influence or advantage Your playing abilities, or influence or advantage Your use of the Services. Third party tools, the use of ‘bots’, “speed hacks”, “deep-link”, “page-scrape”, “robot”, “spider”, algorithm or other programs that copy or monitor any part of the Services (including, but not limited to, the Game(s) and/or forums), software that transmits, manipulates, or distributes (including, but are limited to, “mirroring”) the data stream or any aspect of the Services to another computer, server websites or other publication or distribution media, or software that permits You to use Services without human input are examples of methods not authorized by ZeniMax

Whether it provides an advantage or not, utilizing macros do fall under this category and are prohibited. Please be sure to let us know if you still have any further questions or concerns!

-Edit to add link to comment

Cazic

jkolb2030 wrote: »

Well there are really 2 types of macros then...

If you set up a macro to execute your rotation at a normal speed one after the other after the other after the other , i dont see how that could really an harmful exploit.. It's just going through a sequence of moves in which you still have to aim and keep targets in range.

If you have an exploit that is animation canceling and tying multiple skills together to come out faster than intended, I would say that is the negative macro that should not be allowed.

It has to be hard to set up a macro like that tho because of all of the animation cancelling that you would have to account for. It would be damn impressive if someone did manage to set one up like that with all the perfect timings tho..

I am speaking more to the animation canceling example, aa that would clearly be more advantageous. However even just stringing a series of abilities together without animation canceling would still give an advantage. Only pressing one key and not having to stretch your fingers and hand to press several keys in order would make things easier.

This coidl be done in PvE situations as well. For example stringing a series of aoe healing spells and buffs together as a templar.

Daemons_Bane

Personofsecrets wrote: »

People use macros all of the time, the same people have been doing so for ages, and nothing will change.

Pretty useless answers.. That idiots/cheaters have been doing it for long, will never make it okay.. Macros are not allowed

Cazic

Runs wrote: »

Cazic wrote: »

Yeah, this is exactly what I'm getting at. Most people will say that using macros is exploiting or cheating or a bannable offense. But, how would zos go about actually detecting the use of macros?

At this point you have now turned the discussion into "How do I get away with cheating"

ZOS_MollyH wrote: »

Hi @Casdha !

The use of gaming keyboards and mice are not prohibited, but the use of third-party software or other means of creating macros to automate in-game functions is a violation. I apologize for the confusion!

Just to clarify further, part of the Terms of Service document includes an agreement to follow other Supplemental Terms pertaining to Your Service and/or Game, such as a Code of Conduct, provide guidance on behavior that ZeniMax deems to be inappropriate and specify restrictions on Your Account, Your use of the Game, or Your participation in the Services.

There is a paragraph in the Terms of Service agreement that is as follows:

You agree not to use any hardware or software or any other method of support that is not authorized by ZeniMax or that may in any way influence or advantage Your playing abilities, or influence or advantage Your use of the Services. Third party tools, the use of ‘bots’, “speed hacks”, “deep-link”, “page-scrape”, “robot”, “spider”, algorithm or other programs that copy or monitor any part of the Services (including, but not limited to, the Game(s) and/or forums), software that transmits, manipulates, or distributes (including, but are limited to, “mirroring”) the data stream or any aspect of the Services to another computer, server websites or other publication or distribution media, or software that permits You to use Services without human input are examples of methods not authorized by ZeniMax

Whether it provides an advantage or not, utilizing macros do fall under this category and are prohibited. Please be sure to let us know if you still have any further questions or concerns!

-Edit to add link to comment

I'm really not trying to figure out how to get away with cheating. I'm genuinely interested in understanding the likelihood of whether other players may be using macros or not.

Thank for the quote from zos, that is helpful.

khele23eb17_ESO

Yes, but no, but yes.

HatchetHaro

I might as well just put it out here that macros don't necessarily have to be a sequence of keys; it can just be one key.

All those special keyboards and mice with tons of extra keys and buttons? They come with their own macro programs which you can configure.

What you can do is use the macro program to bind one single action to each key/button. Technically it's still a macro, but other than the placement of that key/button, it offers no advantage. It's basically a keybinding for a key.

Macros that does simple functions that has no real gameplay impact, such as keys for switching chats or typing in emotes, or those that give the user a little bit of rest while adventuring, such as a sprint toggle (hold down shift when pressed once, stop when pressed again), or an auto run toggle (so you can stretch and rest your fingers while your horse gallops forward to the other side of the map), is all technically not allowed. ZOS ToS and all that.

That should all be fine in my opinion, since they offer no real gameplay impact other than streamlining the user experience so it's less clunky.

Macros that presses several keys for you in a way that actually changes gameplay, such as rotating and using several abilities in a set pattern. This can be considered cheating, especially if those keystrokes are humanly impossible to time perfectly and does the whole animation cancelling jazz. Just don't. Man up and cancel your own animations.

Cronopoly

I think the most accepted "Macro" that has to be in play by ALL competitive PVPer's is CC break. Bam! ,hit one button and on with your CC immunity for 8 seconds. I suck at cc in the middle of battle admittedly and don't have a programmable keyboard so get stuck all the time in CC far too long lol.

Rohamad_Ali

Personofsecrets wrote: »

People use macros all of the time, the same people have been doing so for ages, and nothing will change.

Thanks just to my personal video reports I've been lucky enough to see 2 YouTubers and one Twitter rant about their suspensions after reporting macro abuse . I'll be happy to continue for those that don't get the message . They will suspend and eventually permaban macro users .

Erock25

I don't care how well you set up a macro, you can't do anything faster than the animation system allows. Even with animation canceling, you can not fit a large amount of abilities into a small time frame. You can use a basic weapon attack, an ability, a roll dodge, a bash and an ultimate all into one "animation window". No macro can overcome that without some sort of cheat program. Macroing is pointless and detrimental (it doesn't work well, especially with any lag) to your game play. If you think someone is pulling off four of a single ability (Surprise Attack) within one second, it has nothing to do with macros. They're hacking.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Why doesn't ZoS just add a 1 second cooldown to every attack? most people wont even notice and the ones that do notice would be the cheaters.

Valrien

Macros are fine, use them or don't...I really don't care.

lohworm

I think :
macro for "type / d a n c e d u n m e r " => ok
macro for "type 1 left click type 2 left click type 1 left click type R" => not OK

Tonnopesce

Tons of heavy armored s&b dk's use macros for " light attack => puncture => bash => reverberating bash => block " tipe of combo and is funny how all this people pass the anti cheat without issues even if is a 1 second combo.

Erock25 wrote: »

I don't care how well you set up a macro, you can't do anything faster than the animation system allows. Even with animation canceling, you can not fit a large amount of abilities into a small time frame. You can use a basic weapon attack, an ability, a roll dodge, a bash and an ultimate all into one "animation window". No macro can overcome that without some sort of cheat program. Macroing is pointless and detrimental (it doesn't work well, especially with any lag) to your game play. If you think someone is pulling off four of a single ability (Surprise Attack) within one second, it has nothing to do with macros. They're hacking.

Really ?
Because the last time i've checked with a macro you can push AC to the limit, at the point that reapply your buffs result in a couple of weapon switch without see any ability cast.

Cazic

Tonnopesce wrote: »

Tons of heavy armored s&b dk's use macros for " light attack => puncture => bash => reverberating bash => block " tipe of combo and is funny how all this people pass the anti cheat without issues even if is a 1 second combo.

Yeah.. this is the kind of thing I'm suspicious of. There are so many little combos in the game that you could easily setup in a one-key macro. I'm sure there are players out there doing it.