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Kalifas

daemonios wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

I refuse to play a game that not only requires a full price purchase to own a copy, but also a monthly payment to play.

I'm playing because thankfully they made the subscription optional.

This game requires servers, maintenance and ongoing development. The original price doesn't cover these. So basically you're a freeloader... Which is one of the issues I have against F2P/B2P models.

The original sales can cover the server cost, an emphasis on can. If you make an awesome game or expansion and it sells 7-30 million those cost are covered. WoW had the biggest population and their server cost were only 200 million over 4 years. People over estimate how much server cost are. Now if the quality and depth of the game is shallow and you struggle selling DLC then it becomes more difficult.

A sub only game can flourish too without WoW numbers. FFXI is over 10 years old with an avg of 500k subscribers and it has more content than WoW did, FFXIV has been releasing more content than WoW with way less subscribers which they finally took notice, enter the Legion expansion.

Buy to Play and micro-transactions can also make more than a subscription based game.

The power of box sales when you bring the A game with free online and make the experience amazing?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2014/05/13/grand-theft-auto-5-has-sold-nearly-2-billion-at-retail/#71f443143384

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/gta-5s-online-mode-has-generated-half-a-billion-do/1100-6438765/

If I was a developer. I would make sure the experience is fantastic for all players not certain players. And for the players who subscribe long term I would offer subscription rewards for subbing over longer durations.

I would think ZoS would care more about how long you subscribed versus if you subscribed one month per year. This big disparity between dlc buyers and subscribers does not serve them nor the players in the best way possible.

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/playguide/option_service/veteran_rewards/

CherryCake

@Kalifas thank you soooo much for all that info...realized I am subscribed to the wrong game...

ArchMikem

daemonios wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

I refuse to play a game that not only requires a full price purchase to own a copy, but also a monthly payment to play.

I'm playing because thankfully they made the subscription optional.

This game requires servers, maintenance and ongoing development. The original price doesn't cover these. So basically you're a freeloader... Which is one of the issues I have against F2P/B2P models.

Base Game = $59.99
Senche Mount = $18.00
Senche Panther Pet = $7.00
Imperial City DLC = $25.00
Orsinium DLC = $30.00
Thieve's Guild DLC = $20.00
Dark Brotherhood DLC = $20.00

I have paid ZOS to date a total of $180.00, plus whatever taxes for the game and crowns. Not to mention the $120.00 I've spent so far on my Xbox Live Gold time because I'm on console.

Go ahead. Call me freeloader one more time, @daemonios

Kalifas

EstelioVeleth wrote: »

@Kalifas thank you soooo much for all that info...realized I am subscribed to the wrong game...

This game is good when performance is nice. I just think they are edging too close to the are we a sub game or are we this kind of game. Swtor is a solid game which has been confused at it's model started P2P, went F2P with huge restrictions without subbing, and now it seems they are trying to become P2P again with seasonal content. If I wanted to be locked solely into single player content in seasons I would rather have that in a Massive Single Player Offline RPG DLC only.

Here the foundations are pretty solid, just the monetization is kind of wonky at times, you shouldn't make your users jump through hoops or tedious navigations to punish them for not subbing.

Experience is everything. If you build it, they will come, if it is amazing, they will stay, if they stay, everyone wins.

Garldeen

The poll is a bit biassed (which cannot help). By subbing, a user is more likely to have a higher level of engagement with the game and community than a casual player and more likely to visit the forum.

hops

I used to be a Subscriber like you, but then I took a Loading Screen in the knee.

tat2mano

Atm i am sub but i wont be long if they keep maintenance during daytime in europe.

Zenzuki

hops wrote: »

I used to be a Subscriber like you, but then I took a Loading Screen in the knee.

daemonios

ArchMikem wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

I refuse to play a game that not only requires a full price purchase to own a copy, but also a monthly payment to play.

I'm playing because thankfully they made the subscription optional.

This game requires servers, maintenance and ongoing development. The original price doesn't cover these. So basically you're a freeloader... Which is one of the issues I have against F2P/B2P models.

Base Game = $59.99
Senche Mount = $18.00
Senche Panther Pet = $7.00
Imperial City DLC = $25.00
Orsinium DLC = $30.00
Thieve's Guild DLC = $20.00
Dark Brotherhood DLC = $20.00

I have paid ZOS to date a total of $180.00, plus whatever taxes for the game and crowns. Not to mention the $120.00 I've spent so far on my Xbox Live Gold time because I'm on console.

Go ahead. Call me freeloader one more time, @daemonios

In your post I originally replied to you essentially implied you played for free. You said you'd never play a game that requires an original purchase plus a subscription, which I understood to mean you'd only be willing to pay once. I'm curious then - why are you so against subs but still throw money at a monopolistic (by design), cash-grabbing, fluff-peddling, game-ruining crown store?

Anyway I take it back about you being a freeloader.

CherryCake

No no dont stop it @hops keep them coming please that made me laugh xDDDDDDDDDD

snakester320

i started playing well over a year ago dungeons where utter bs to get into so i left!!! came back about 3 weeks ago and at the time performance was decent so i desided to sub BUT of late its getting worse and worse and my months sub is due soon im really desiding if its worth the effort and cost for a degrading game!! WHY is it so hard for ZOS to offer a decent game not full of bugs they cant seem to fix... To make it worse announce NEW DLC ... FFS fix the problems first before causing more!!

Ruthven

I'd be considered a casual player as I have stints of a few weeks here and there with weeks (and sometimes months) in between where I don't play.

It's just not worth it for me.

ArchMikem

daemonios wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

I refuse to play a game that not only requires a full price purchase to own a copy, but also a monthly payment to play.

I'm playing because thankfully they made the subscription optional.

This game requires servers, maintenance and ongoing development. The original price doesn't cover these. So basically you're a freeloader... Which is one of the issues I have against F2P/B2P models.

Base Game = $59.99
Senche Mount = $18.00
Senche Panther Pet = $7.00
Imperial City DLC = $25.00
Orsinium DLC = $30.00
Thieve's Guild DLC = $20.00
Dark Brotherhood DLC = $20.00

I have paid ZOS to date a total of $180.00, plus whatever taxes for the game and crowns. Not to mention the $120.00 I've spent so far on my Xbox Live Gold time because I'm on console.

Go ahead. Call me freeloader one more time, @daemonios

In your post I originally replied to you essentially implied you played for free. You said you'd never play a game that requires an original purchase plus a subscription, which I understood to mean you'd only be willing to pay once. I'm curious then - why are you so against subs but still throw money at a monopolistic (by design), cash-grabbing, fluff-peddling, game-ruining crown store?

Anyway I take it back about you being a freeloader.

I pay for content offered. Its basic commerce. You see something new you want to experience, you pay a price to experience it. Each dlc content is something new for me to experience, thus i pay the listing price for it.

I beleive in one time payments. My few exceptions are leasing an apartment, car, ect. I dont view a video game requires such exception.

moiraleafcull

I have cancelled subs on two of my three accounts...and given cheating, bugs, random load screens, PvP that is completely unbalanced, uninspiring DLCs...its becoming rather difficult to justify subbing on the remaining.

SerDinadan

I sub if I'm playing and unsub if I'm on a break from the game. I don't buy the DLCs since if I'm not playing then I don't need the DLCs unlocked.

GrumpStump

I'm subscribed until Oct 2018. Needless to say, I love this game.


GrumpStump

Lucius_Aelius

Nope, and short of winning the lottery or a comparable pay raise I never will be. I've already bought everything I want except DLC's, so I'll eventually be saving money after playing this game for a year (and I expect to be playing it for several if it keeps going that long and they eventually fix the lag and rampant glitches).

I know lots of people resubbed for the Craft Bags, but honestly, as much as I thought I wanted the craft bag when it was announced and was pissed that it was exclusive to ESO+, now I wouldn't ever buy ESO+ without the ability to not have the craft bag, I honestly don't want it and having it permanently enabled as a subscriber guarantees on its own that I'll never sub, quite apart from funding issues.

It almost feels like cheating to me, we already carry around a preposterous amount of stuff, but making it infinite (or near enough) is just silly. As much as I've needed inventory space to be increased for a while now, the crafting bag is not how I want that to be achieved, and we should still actually have to work at least a little to manage our inventories.

For my part, in response to the craft bag being released and no corresponding increase in standard inventory space, I was desperate for more space and ended up following the advice of many people by creating my own Guild for the sole purpose of having my own personal Guild Bank. Now with an extra 500 inventory slots I've got all the space I need to keep everything that really matters, plus a whole bunch of random *** that doesn't matter but I keep it anyway just because I can. So now I'm all set with inventory space for the foreseeable future, and then some.

I understand how people feel about the crafting bags because of it, I used to be so selective about what I picked up and what I kept, putting anything I couldn't (or didn't feel like bothering to) sell or keep into one of my actual Guilds' Banks. Now I pick up and keep EVERYTHING, no exaggeration. I don't use light or medium armor on any of my characters and likely never will, but I still can't stop myself from picking up every piece of flax and rawhide I come across. Especially hide scraps because of dead enemies dropping it, I've literally now got 12 stacks of Rawhide, 8 Stacks of Leather, and the list goes on.

I still don't think it's right for Subscribers to get crafting bags and everyone else gets absolutely no increase whatsoever, especially with every DLC including new things you need to keep, but I changed my mind and don't think the infinite crafting bag was a good idea at all anymore, so by all means let it stay exclusive for all I care.

But unless every person in the game is to be expected to make their own Guild just to have their own Bank (which is beyond stupid), then non-subs need some kind of inventory space increase greater than zero. I'm thinking everyone needs at least an increase to as much as 350-500 bank inventory slots, normal inventory could use an increase to 300 but I wouldn't want it going much higher than that at the most or else that would feel like cheating too.

Also I think Guild Banks could use an increase in space to 1000, quite apart from any benefit to me it's just strange that they only have 500 slots when the Guild can have 500 people, and one person per slot available in the Guild Bank seems messed up to me. Let subs have more, but give everyone at least some extra space, and I really think they should change the crafting bag to a more reasonable storage size, like 1000 slots at the most (still way more than most people could ever practically make use of themselves).

Elfbait

Yes I am a subscriber. Reasons: for @ 15 bucks a month (the cost of one meal at that teriyaki joint down the street) I can preview DLC to find out whether I want to actually own it or not, gain a little extra gold and XP, have a Crowns allowance that I can save up to buy the DLC I decided I liked, and a bottomless craft bag. Works for me.

Plus, I genuinely enjoy the game and want to support it.

if the powers that be are listening: please add barbershops to Tamriel. Not this collectible hairstyles nonsense. It's boring, therefore wrong.

Silverado

I sub for the crafting bag, the experience and the crowns. I usually end up buying the dlc I want, so I can't really say I sub for dlc. However the 4 man dungeon dlc that's coming doesn't interest me so ill just sub for that one.

daemonios

ArchMikem wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

I refuse to play a game that not only requires a full price purchase to own a copy, but also a monthly payment to play.

I'm playing because thankfully they made the subscription optional.

This game requires servers, maintenance and ongoing development. The original price doesn't cover these. So basically you're a freeloader... Which is one of the issues I have against F2P/B2P models.

Base Game = $59.99
Senche Mount = $18.00
Senche Panther Pet = $7.00
Imperial City DLC = $25.00
Orsinium DLC = $30.00
Thieve's Guild DLC = $20.00
Dark Brotherhood DLC = $20.00

I have paid ZOS to date a total of $180.00, plus whatever taxes for the game and crowns. Not to mention the $120.00 I've spent so far on my Xbox Live Gold time because I'm on console.

Go ahead. Call me freeloader one more time, @daemonios

In your post I originally replied to you essentially implied you played for free. You said you'd never play a game that requires an original purchase plus a subscription, which I understood to mean you'd only be willing to pay once. I'm curious then - why are you so against subs but still throw money at a monopolistic (by design), cash-grabbing, fluff-peddling, game-ruining crown store?

Anyway I take it back about you being a freeloader.

I pay for content offered. Its basic commerce. You see something new you want to experience, you pay a price to experience it. Each dlc content is something new for me to experience, thus i pay the listing price for it.

I beleive in one time payments. My few exceptions are leasing an apartment, car, ect. I dont view a video game requires such exception.

Is it really content, though? DLC undoubtedly are, but consumables? Mounts and costumes that could, and in the past have been, progress/loyalty rewards? I'm sorry, I wouldn't qualify most things in the crown store as "content".

You can of course argue that you get whatever value you paid for crown store stuff, but if you actually pay attention ZOS does its best to inflate this value. First and foremost because they're the only ones who can offer anything for sale in the store (monopoly by design). Secondly because they put stuff in the store that can't be obtained otherwise. Thirdly because they routinely come up with "limited time exclusive" scams - and I'm not calling them scams lightheartedly, in traditional commerce limited time promotions/sales are regulated in many countries.

If after all this you still think whatever you're buying is worth the asking price, I suggest you think about the consequences for the game. Each new motif seems harder to grind than ever before, but we know they're putting them up for sale in the store shortly after they're introduced. Costumes/mounts and now name/cosmetic changes cost more than actual DLC. Said DLC is getting smaller and smaller, to the point that next week they're releasing 2 dungeons and calling it a DLC (I'm not even considering the revamped trials because the bulk of the work was already done).

Even before ESO went B2P I was convinced a sub model is the only honest model for an MMO. ZOS have done nothing but reinforce this.

Lightninvash

I play in spurts when I play I sub for crafting bag(used to be the DLC but I have them all now so its for crafting bag). I only get 30mins-1hr game time and id rather not spend that time looking at loading screens or crashing out. So I only play now and then due to this. This is why I no longer sub as well

Zaldan

not paying for the way this game currently runs