Magicka sorc damage

Methariorn

Since tha last two patch my sorc got serius problem landing decent damage in pvp: many time my instant proc fragment hit for 3000, 3500 dmg (on no blocking players...). I run with 5 elegance, 3 willpower, 3 willow; got 41000k magicka and 2580 spellpower buffed with surge, sharpened destro staff and 100 points in spell erosion. Beside adding Elemental Susceptibility to the target (and hoping the *** targeting system don't mess up) I've no idea how to improve damage.
Btw dear Zenimax: any hope to have a budfixing and belance patch or you'll just develop DLC? I got the feeling that going in this direction will start to see only stamina build and magicka templars and goodbye diversity...and I feel stupid having a ton of sets to pick up and only few are really good (or op if you prefear).
Sorry for my poor English.

leepalmer95

Put 80~ in elemental expert, throw a bit in erosion and spell crit dmg.

Methariorn

My CP are capped and I already put in elemental expert: still damage output is quite low. The only options I've never try are Elemental Susceptibility to boost spell penetration and 2 molag kena to boost spell power.

thankyourat

I got hit with a 12k frag and a 7k mage wrath yesterday while I was on my ballista lol

Methariorn

Well I can put some good damage with frag and overload on player who don't build too well for pvp...but on lot of stam build the damage are too low. Critical build is a waste since most decent players are in full inpenetrable for pvp; I still love my sorc and it's quite good the few time I run in warband (winterborn build), still most of my time in PvP is with a couple of friends: Enkidu and Reycha and after some inc...ok I login my templar so I can keep you up, you don't miss my dps anyway xD

psychotic13

Why 3 willows? Not a set I normally see magsorcs using.

Methariorn

A stack of spell regen and a stack of stam regen can be nice...I hate begin unable to BF from cc or unable to dodge most time I run solo or in a 3 man party so I can't count on support. I got a lot of different sets if I need to make a change: in warband I run winterborn. Anyway every combination I've try so far don't give me decent damage output since the last two patch.

MadNeedHelp

5pc elegant wont do much for your Cfrags, try Julianos or Kagrenacs 5pc. Change the willow with Magnus,Seducer or Kena 2pc. Use Entrophy to proc frags and have the Might of the guild passive. 3k is extremely low...Mundus stone thief or Shadow dont use Spell Damage. Also on cps..Dont put more than 54 in Erosion thats 3k pen, you get 4k+ from 5 pc LA passives and 5k+ from a Gold staff. Dump 78 in Elemetal Expert and the last bit in Elfborn. my 2 cents..good luck in pvp

psychotic13

Methariorn wrote: »

A stack of spell regen and a stack of stam regen can be nice...I hate begin unable to BF from cc or unable to dodge most time I run solo or in a 3 man party so I can't count on support. I got a lot of different sets if I need to make a change: in warband I run winterborn. Anyway every combination I've try so far don't give me decent damage output since the last two patch.

I still wouldn't recommend willows personally.

This is my set up:

x5 Kagrenacs
x5 Alchemist
x3 Willpower

Fully buffed I can get up to 4.5k spell damage, as a sorc your biggest weakness will always be the break free cost, you could put some CP into reducing that if its that much of a problem. But you should try to dodge roll as little as possible and manage your stamina for when you need to break free.

Waffennacht

Juliannos, alchemist, kena, tbs, willpower....

Those are your PvP sets for mag sorc. If you wanna CC break more often, purple food is the answer. You should kill your opponent before 3 CC breaks.

Burst burst and more burst. Curse, Streak, Frag, Wrath, Curse Frag = gg

My frag tooltip says 18k so should hit at minimum 4.5k in PvP (well could be less but we are ignoring things outside full armor cap)

Minalan

Drop the three willows for 2xtorugs pact and 1xmolag kena - that will add 250+ spell damage.

Also, replace your main staff with a sharpened weapon, that will reduce enemy armor by 5000. So heavy becomes medium, medium becomes light, and light...lol

DjSolJAH

Methariorn wrote: »

My CP are capped and I already put in elemental expert: still damage output is quite low. The only options I've never try are Elemental Susceptibility to boost spell penetration and 2 molag kena to boost spell power.

You can redistribute CP

Methariorn

Alchemist, Julianos and Kagrenacs are all good sets; I've try the last two but I miss spell recovery then.

Waffennacht

Methariorn wrote: »

Alchemist, Julianos and Kagrenacs are all good sets; I've try the last two but I miss spell recovery then.

Then go with atronach mundus. I go all out offense with armor sets and jewelry and then run Mundus for regen. Heavy staff attacks go a long way too

bardx86

Waffennacht wrote: »

Methariorn wrote: »

Alchemist, Julianos and Kagrenacs are all good sets; I've try the last two but I miss spell recovery then.

Then go with atronach mundus. I go all out offense with armor sets and jewelry and then run Mundus for regen. Heavy staff attacks go a long way too

Agreed.

But I think the op has a point about low damage on a sorc. To get decent damage you have to wait for a frag proc then cast entropy for might of the guild all of which take waaaay to much time in pvp. Dizzy swing can hit just as hard as that without all the fuss. Hell surprise attack hits pretty hard as well.

ToRelax

What's all this complaining about his gear choice?

Or to be more precise, max stam doesn't help you to break free / dodge more often, just more often consecutively; and the Elegance set boosts Overload damage by a lot.

Probably OP should teach the rest of you how to play Sorc. ._.

Father_X_Zombie

Try 5 julianos, 5 lich, 3 willpower, with the shadow mundus

My record frag hit for a 501 player was 20k

Derra

You won´t kill any opponent that knows what you´re doing with a DW build.
DW is for scrubkilling (a species of which you´re finding less and less these days - and you actually don´t need a self limiting build to kill those).

I would not run elegance personally (apart from very specific situations). It´s too situational. Julianos or Kag are both more all around useful. Even seducer in my opinion outperforms it (not in terms of dmg).

loki547

Derra wrote: »

You won´t kill any opponent that knows what you´re doing with a DW build.
DW is for scrubkilling (a species of which you´re finding less and less these days - and you actually don´t need a self limiting build to kill those).

I would not run elegance personally however. It´s too situational. Julianos or Kag are both more all around useful.

Sounds like an L2P issue for you then. Been dual wield since 1.6 and haven't had a problem killing good players at all this patch (aside maybe from permablocking tanks that do no damage)

Also been running the same armor setup since IC. 5 Kag's, 4 Magnus Gift, 3 Willpower. Thought about trying the Lich/Julianos setup but I don't want to farm for it and it's still too expensive. Running the numbers my setup has more max magicka and spell dmg but less regen, which suits my play style just fine. Next patch I'll be able to change from Breton to High Elf so that should help with regen as well.

loki547

delete

Derra

loki547 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

You won´t kill any opponent that knows what you´re doing with a DW build.
DW is for scrubkilling (a species of which you´re finding less and less these days - and you actually don´t need a self limiting build to kill those).

I would not run elegance personally however. It´s too situational. Julianos or Kag are both more all around useful.

Sounds like an L2P issue for you then. Been dual wield since 1.6 and haven't had a problem killing good players at all this patch (aside maybe from permablocking tanks that do no damage)

Also been running the same armor setup since IC. 5 Kag's, 4 Magnus Gift, 3 Willpower. Thought about trying the Lich/Julianos setup but I don't want to farm for it and it's still too expensive. Running the numbers my setup has more max magicka and spell dmg but less regen, which suits my play style just fine. Next patch I'll be able to change from Breton to High Elf so that should help with regen as well.

Gotta love l2p comments. Automatically jumping to the conclusion i don´t kill opponents with it (which happens to be correct - because i don´t play it as it offers nothing compared to a staff build apart from doing something different and sadly less effective). My point was i never died to such a setup since 1.6 and even back then it was in duels where i was stupid enough to show up as vampire during dbos meta.
I can count the times i´ve died to a DW sorc on one hand (and that is not an exaggeration to prove my point - i mean it as i say it).
Even with tbs, elegance and dw full overload pve dmg - you don´t kill an opponent who knows how to handle the situation.

Any competent player that knows how a dw sorc is functioning keeps you from ever getting him into dangerous HP territory.

Minalan

I'm not going to trash a DW build except that they lack sustain damage. Put one against a full Impen blocking heavy armor Stam DK or Templar and they just don't have the juice to outdamage those heals. That's why I put it down, I couldn't make it work without a spammable like crushing shock.

Waffennacht

Derra wrote: »

loki547 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

You won´t kill any opponent that knows what you´re doing with a DW build.
DW is for scrubkilling (a species of which you´re finding less and less these days - and you actually don´t need a self limiting build to kill those).

I would not run elegance personally however. It´s too situational. Julianos or Kag are both more all around useful.

Sounds like an L2P issue for you then. Been dual wield since 1.6 and haven't had a problem killing good players at all this patch (aside maybe from permablocking tanks that do no damage)

Also been running the same armor setup since IC. 5 Kag's, 4 Magnus Gift, 3 Willpower. Thought about trying the Lich/Julianos setup but I don't want to farm for it and it's still too expensive. Running the numbers my setup has more max magicka and spell dmg but less regen, which suits my play style just fine. Next patch I'll be able to change from Breton to High Elf so that should help with regen as well.

Gotta love l2p comments. Automatically jumping to the conclusion i don´t kill opponents with it (which happens to be correct - because i don´t play it as it offers nothing compared to a staff build apart from doing something different and sadly less effective). My point was i never died to such a setup since 1.6 and even back then it was in duels where i was stupid enough to show up as vampire during dbos meta.
I can count the times i´ve died to a DW sorc on one hand (and that is not an exaggeration to prove my point - i mean it as i say it).
Even with tbs, elegance and dw full overload pve dmg - you don´t kill an opponent who knows how to handle the situation.

Any competent player that knows how a dw sorc is functioning keeps you from ever getting him into dangerous HP territory.

If you are assuming all DW builds are the old shield stackers then that's why you haven't lost.

You don't need sustain when you burst over 30k (after PvP reduction) without crit in 1 sec.

How can you say l2p sorcs? It's pretty freakin straight forward for magicka. Curse, weave, frag, weave, flex, ward, wrath frag etc etc etc.

Minalan

Waffennacht wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

loki547 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

You won´t kill any opponent that knows what you´re doing with a DW build.
DW is for scrubkilling (a species of which you´re finding less and less these days - and you actually don´t need a self limiting build to kill those).

I would not run elegance personally however. It´s too situational. Julianos or Kag are both more all around useful.

Sounds like an L2P issue for you then. Been dual wield since 1.6 and haven't had a problem killing good players at all this patch (aside maybe from permablocking tanks that do no damage)

Also been running the same armor setup since IC. 5 Kag's, 4 Magnus Gift, 3 Willpower. Thought about trying the Lich/Julianos setup but I don't want to farm for it and it's still too expensive. Running the numbers my setup has more max magicka and spell dmg but less regen, which suits my play style just fine. Next patch I'll be able to change from Breton to High Elf so that should help with regen as well.

Gotta love l2p comments. Automatically jumping to the conclusion i don´t kill opponents with it (which happens to be correct - because i don´t play it as it offers nothing compared to a staff build apart from doing something different and sadly less effective). My point was i never died to such a setup since 1.6 and even back then it was in duels where i was stupid enough to show up as vampire during dbos meta.
I can count the times i´ve died to a DW sorc on one hand (and that is not an exaggeration to prove my point - i mean it as i say it).
Even with tbs, elegance and dw full overload pve dmg - you don´t kill an opponent who knows how to handle the situation.

Any competent player that knows how a dw sorc is functioning keeps you from ever getting him into dangerous HP territory.

If you are assuming all DW builds are the old shield stackers then that's why you haven't lost.

You don't need sustain when you burst over 30k (after PvP reduction) without crit in 1 sec.

How can you say l2p sorcs? It's pretty freakin straight forward for magicka. Curse, weave, frag, weave, flex, ward, wrath frag etc etc etc.

Question for the dual wield masters: what enchant are you running on the dual wield? Sharpened trait is obvious.", the enchant not so much. I mean... Light and heavy attacks are out, so spell damage enchants won't work.

It used to be that dual wield would give higher (5%) spell damage, but with a spell damage enchanted fire destruction staff and all of the vampire smiting goodness I don't think that's the case anymore.

Edit: I'm thinking lightning damage for that odd Nightblade you whack for staying in your face?

The-Baconator

Waffennacht wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

loki547 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

You won´t kill any opponent that knows what you´re doing with a DW build.
DW is for scrubkilling (a species of which you´re finding less and less these days - and you actually don´t need a self limiting build to kill those).

I would not run elegance personally however. It´s too situational. Julianos or Kag are both more all around useful.

Sounds like an L2P issue for you then. Been dual wield since 1.6 and haven't had a problem killing good players at all this patch (aside maybe from permablocking tanks that do no damage)

Also been running the same armor setup since IC. 5 Kag's, 4 Magnus Gift, 3 Willpower. Thought about trying the Lich/Julianos setup but I don't want to farm for it and it's still too expensive. Running the numbers my setup has more max magicka and spell dmg but less regen, which suits my play style just fine. Next patch I'll be able to change from Breton to High Elf so that should help with regen as well.

Gotta love l2p comments. Automatically jumping to the conclusion i don´t kill opponents with it (which happens to be correct - because i don´t play it as it offers nothing compared to a staff build apart from doing something different and sadly less effective). My point was i never died to such a setup since 1.6 and even back then it was in duels where i was stupid enough to show up as vampire during dbos meta.
I can count the times i´ve died to a DW sorc on one hand (and that is not an exaggeration to prove my point - i mean it as i say it).
Even with tbs, elegance and dw full overload pve dmg - you don´t kill an opponent who knows how to handle the situation.

Any competent player that knows how a dw sorc is functioning keeps you from ever getting him into dangerous HP territory.

If you are assuming all DW builds are the old shield stackers then that's why you haven't lost.

You don't need sustain when you burst over 30k (after PvP reduction) without crit in 1 sec.

How can you say l2p sorcs? It's pretty freakin straight forward for magicka. Curse, weave, frag, weave, flex, ward, wrath frag etc etc etc.

The point is a truly good player will not expose themselves to the possibility of being bursted by something so predictable. If you die to a dw sorc you either made a mistake or have too squishy of a setup.

Minalan

The-Baconator wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

loki547 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

You won´t kill any opponent that knows what you´re doing with a DW build.
DW is for scrubkilling (a species of which you´re finding less and less these days - and you actually don´t need a self limiting build to kill those).

I would not run elegance personally however. It´s too situational. Julianos or Kag are both more all around useful.

Sounds like an L2P issue for you then. Been dual wield since 1.6 and haven't had a problem killing good players at all this patch (aside maybe from permablocking tanks that do no damage)

Also been running the same armor setup since IC. 5 Kag's, 4 Magnus Gift, 3 Willpower. Thought about trying the Lich/Julianos setup but I don't want to farm for it and it's still too expensive. Running the numbers my setup has more max magicka and spell dmg but less regen, which suits my play style just fine. Next patch I'll be able to change from Breton to High Elf so that should help with regen as well.

Gotta love l2p comments. Automatically jumping to the conclusion i don´t kill opponents with it (which happens to be correct - because i don´t play it as it offers nothing compared to a staff build apart from doing something different and sadly less effective). My point was i never died to such a setup since 1.6 and even back then it was in duels where i was stupid enough to show up as vampire during dbos meta.
I can count the times i´ve died to a DW sorc on one hand (and that is not an exaggeration to prove my point - i mean it as i say it).
Even with tbs, elegance and dw full overload pve dmg - you don´t kill an opponent who knows how to handle the situation.

Any competent player that knows how a dw sorc is functioning keeps you from ever getting him into dangerous HP territory.

If you are assuming all DW builds are the old shield stackers then that's why you haven't lost.

You don't need sustain when you burst over 30k (after PvP reduction) without crit in 1 sec.

How can you say l2p sorcs? It's pretty freakin straight forward for magicka. Curse, weave, frag, weave, flex, ward, wrath frag etc etc etc.

The point is a truly good player will not expose themselves to the possibility of being bursted by something so predictable. If you die to a dw sorc you either made a mistake or have too squishy of a setup.

How is that different from a non-DW sorc?

How does running a destro staff and spamming force pulse make us unpredictable?

bardx86

bardx86 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Methariorn wrote: »

Alchemist, Julianos and Kagrenacs are all good sets; I've try the last two but I miss spell recovery then.

Then go with atronach mundus. I go all out offense with armor sets and jewelry and then run Mundus for regen. Heavy staff attacks go a long way too

Agreed.

But I think the op has a point about low damage on a sorc. To get decent damage you have to wait for a frag proc then cast entropy for might of the guild all of which take waaaay to much time in pvp. Dizzy swing can hit just as hard as that without all the fuss. Hell surprise attack hits pretty hard as well. This is one o

Derra wrote: »

loki547 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

You won´t kill any opponent that knows what you´re doing with a DW build.
DW is for scrubkilling (a species of which you´re finding less and less these days - and you actually don´t need a self limiting build to kill those).

I would not run elegance personally however. It´s too situational. Julianos or Kag are both more all around useful.

Sounds like an L2P issue for you then. Been dual wield since 1.6 and haven't had a problem killing good players at all this patch (aside maybe from permablocking tanks that do no damage)

Also been running the same armor setup since IC. 5 Kag's, 4 Magnus Gift, 3 Willpower. Thought about trying the Lich/Julianos setup but I don't want to farm for it and it's still too expensive. Running the numbers my setup has more max magicka and spell dmg but less regen, which suits my play style just fine. Next patch I'll be able to change from Breton to High Elf so that should help with regen as well.

Gotta love l2p comments. Automatically jumping to the conclusion i don´t kill opponents with it (which happens to be correct - because i don´t play it as it offers nothing compared to a staff build apart from doing something different and sadly less effective). My point was i never died to such a setup since 1.6 and even back then it was in duels where i was stupid enough to show up as vampire during dbos meta.
I can count the times i´ve died to a DW sorc on one hand (and that is not an exaggeration to prove my point - i mean it as i say it).
Even with tbs, elegance and dw full overload pve dmg - you don´t kill an opponent who knows how to handle the situation.

Any competent player that knows how a dw sorc is functioning keeps you from ever getting him into dangerous HP territory.

Gonna have to go with Derra on this one. I DW'ed up until the last patch. Only reason i switch was staff using sorcs would mow me over, DW sorcs can't kill me. One you learn the play style its more effective than DW.

Methariorn

I've give a try to Alchemist and Kagrenack...simply is not working for the way I play my sorc: I need high magicka recovery to keep moving and doing dps. Oh and I'm a very bad sorc belive me...but full dps without any sustain in not working for me: I play most solo or with a couple of friends. Well I'll try to learn to play my sorc and pick my target better

Methariorn

BTW Elo'dryel: long time I don't see you around Cyro, man: it's all running fine?

Minalan

Methariorn wrote: »

I've give a try to Alchemist and Kagrenack...simply is not working for the way I play my sorc: I need high magicka recovery to keep moving and doing dps. Oh and I'm a very bad sorc belive me...but full dps without any sustain in not working for me: I play most solo or with a couple of friends. Well I'll try to learn to play my sorc and pick my target better

With the shields lasting so little, and the increased costs in dark brotherhood - I've gone seducer and Magnus. It gives me most of what I'm looking for sustain wise.

The DPS sets just can't keep up unless you're running full lich on the back bar and get the proc every minute. That's probably next for me because lich/DPS can kill an all sustain build - sustain can't keep up with the damage.

LegendaryMage

Minalan wrote: »

Methariorn wrote: »

I've give a try to Alchemist and Kagrenack...simply is not working for the way I play my sorc: I need high magicka recovery to keep moving and doing dps. Oh and I'm a very bad sorc belive me...but full dps without any sustain in not working for me: I play most solo or with a couple of friends. Well I'll try to learn to play my sorc and pick my target better

With the shields lasting so little, and the increased costs in dark brotherhood - I've gone seducer and Magnus. It gives me most of what I'm looking for sustain wise.

The DPS sets just can't keep up unless you're running full lich on the back bar and get the proc every minute. That's probably next for me because lich/DPS can kill an all sustain build - sustain can't keep up with the damage.

You only gotta survive a dps sorc for a minute or so, then they run out of mag and can't keep up anymore. Their damage is not that higher either, maybe 5-10% max, nothing you can't deal with if your backbar has at least 40k magicka and decent CPs.