One Tamriel - Immersion

Lysette

josefcifkaeb17_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

josefcifkaeb17_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

josefcifkaeb17_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Honestly, in a time of war there were legitimate reasons not to allow traders into your nation, for fear that they might be enemy spies. Granted, it's a kind of realism we're not used to seeing with the franchise, but, there you go.

Where do you think less developed countries get their weapons when they have no weapon manufacturers? Do you think they appear out of thin air?

You understand the difference between an arms dealer and a wandering merchant, right?

Yes, and what's your point?

That there are legitimate reasons not to allow traders to cross your borders, unmolested, in a time of war.

Just as there are legitimate reasons to let them in. My point is that from a lore point of view traders of different races can be justified, and as I mentioned especially if they have a union. Nobody ever said they are there without having to pay a fee, their freedom of movement would also probably be limited. But civilians wandering in evemy territory are a no go, they would probably be quickly dealt with.

But just because they are of a different race does not mean that they could not be citizen and loyal to their new home country.

josefcifkaeb17_ESO

Wolfshead wrote: »

josefcifkaeb17_ESO wrote: »

Wolfshead wrote: »

josefcifkaeb17_ESO wrote: »

Hello there,

a quick question, anyone knows how One Tamriel or to be more specific dropping alliance restrictions in pve is going to be explained?
I think it would be nice if before one could venture into other alliance zones one would have to get a permission from the mages or fighters guild, as they act in all alliances and are impartial to the alliance war. It might be done via a short quest where one would have to acquire ambassador status or something similar (possibly obtain a title).

So, does anyone know? If not would you like to see this kind of immersion quest added to the game?

Thanks & have a nice day...

Well to be honest i think best answer is how do we come and go to other country today?

Even if some government dont like each other the normal people can come and go and i think same well apply to One Tamriel even if factions dont like each the cant stop there people come and go heck the are mostlike even trader with each just like we do today.

Just think as world today in real life work but you apply that think to One Tamriel then i think we mess up the Immersion and also if you have done Cadwell quest line i guess it will work same way and that did not mess up Immersion

But you're talking about countries which formed an alliance like the European Union, that would represent the same alliance as is between the friendly races. Khajit Bosmer and Altmer can cross their borders without trouble.
The relationship between the warring alliances is more like north and south korea, try crossing the border there...

And even friendly countries have rules you have to follow... I mean just yesterday two Canadian girls got arrested for unknowingly crossing the border to America while playing pokemon go

Ok take middle ages people could come and go as want even if the motherland did like the neighbor countries and i think that could apply to ESO as well again most countries in ESO do trader with each other you have use imagination and RP think here

You're comparing european middle ages where everyone looked the same with a fictional world where people look different at first sight. It's hard not to notice a cat person amongst humans...
Also if they discovered your native language is that of an enemy country you'd have a short life.

starkerealm

josefcifkaeb17_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

josefcifkaeb17_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

josefcifkaeb17_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Honestly, in a time of war there were legitimate reasons not to allow traders into your nation, for fear that they might be enemy spies. Granted, it's a kind of realism we're not used to seeing with the franchise, but, there you go.

Where do you think less developed countries get their weapons when they have no weapon manufacturers? Do you think they appear out of thin air?

You understand the difference between an arms dealer and a wandering merchant, right?

Yes, and what's your point?

That there are legitimate reasons not to allow traders to cross your borders, unmolested, in a time of war.

Just as there are legitimate reasons to let them in. My point is that from a lore point of view traders of different races can be justified, and as I mentioned especially if they have a union. Nobody ever said they are there without having to pay a fee, their freedom of movement would also probably be limited. But civilians wandering in evemy territory are a no go, they would probably be quickly dealt with.

It's actually interesting, in retrospect, while there are a trade guilds in The Elder Scrolls, East Empire Company and Gold Coast Trading Company both come to mind immediately, they've almost never been ones you could sign on with. (EEC could be joined in Bloodmoon. But, that's the only time I can think of.)

In isolation from Elder Scrolls, and simply as a world building perspective, the point about closing your borders to trade in wartime stands. It actually reflects a kind of ruthlessness that TES has mostly shied away from, but there is historical precedent.

Also, when you get into politics, strong trade ties tend to make warfare less appealing, which can be a strong deterrent to military action.

starkerealm

josefcifkaeb17_ESO wrote: »

And even friendly countries have rules you have to follow... I mean just yesterday two Canadian girls got arrested for unknowingly crossing the border to America while playing pokemon go

*Pounds head against his desk.*

Lysette

Wolfshead wrote: »

josefcifkaeb17_ESO wrote: »

Wolfshead wrote: »

josefcifkaeb17_ESO wrote: »

Hello there,

a quick question, anyone knows how One Tamriel or to be more specific dropping alliance restrictions in pve is going to be explained?
I think it would be nice if before one could venture into other alliance zones one would have to get a permission from the mages or fighters guild, as they act in all alliances and are impartial to the alliance war. It might be done via a short quest where one would have to acquire ambassador status or something similar (possibly obtain a title).

So, does anyone know? If not would you like to see this kind of immersion quest added to the game?

Thanks & have a nice day...

Well to be honest i think best answer is how do we come and go to other country today?

Even if some government dont like each other the normal people can come and go and i think same well apply to One Tamriel even if factions dont like each the cant stop there people come and go heck the are mostlike even trader with each just like we do today.

Just think as world today in real life work but you apply that think to One Tamriel then i think we mess up the Immersion and also if you have done Cadwell quest line i guess it will work same way and that did not mess up Immersion

But you're talking about countries which formed an alliance like the European Union, that would represent the same alliance as is between the friendly races. Khajit Bosmer and Altmer can cross their borders without trouble.
The relationship between the warring alliances is more like north and south korea, try crossing the border there...

And even friendly countries have rules you have to follow... I mean just yesterday two Canadian girls got arrested for unknowingly crossing the border to America while playing pokemon go

Ok take middle ages people could come and go as want even if the motherland did like the neighbor countries and i think that could apply to ESO as well again most countries in ESO do trader with each other you have use imagination and RP think here

No, they actually couldn't - peasants were bound to the place where they were born and not allowed to leave it - there was no freedom until cities arose - and the first laws came to be, which gave cities special rights - first in the holy roman Reich of german nations - and the saying was "Stadtluft macht frei" - a city's atmosphere liberates. This led to more and more people trying to reach the city and stay there - because if they could make it, they were free to stay and did not have to return to where they were born. There was no freedom to roam around for everyone in the medievals - most could not do that at all.

josefcifkaeb17_ESO

@starkerealm You yourself wrote that the conflict between each alliances outside of Cyrodiil is scarce

starkerealm

josefcifkaeb17_ESO wrote: »

Wolfshead wrote: »

josefcifkaeb17_ESO wrote: »

Wolfshead wrote: »

josefcifkaeb17_ESO wrote: »

Hello there,

a quick question, anyone knows how One Tamriel or to be more specific dropping alliance restrictions in pve is going to be explained?
I think it would be nice if before one could venture into other alliance zones one would have to get a permission from the mages or fighters guild, as they act in all alliances and are impartial to the alliance war. It might be done via a short quest where one would have to acquire ambassador status or something similar (possibly obtain a title).

So, does anyone know? If not would you like to see this kind of immersion quest added to the game?

Thanks & have a nice day...

Well to be honest i think best answer is how do we come and go to other country today?

Even if some government dont like each other the normal people can come and go and i think same well apply to One Tamriel even if factions dont like each the cant stop there people come and go heck the are mostlike even trader with each just like we do today.

Just think as world today in real life work but you apply that think to One Tamriel then i think we mess up the Immersion and also if you have done Cadwell quest line i guess it will work same way and that did not mess up Immersion

But you're talking about countries which formed an alliance like the European Union, that would represent the same alliance as is between the friendly races. Khajit Bosmer and Altmer can cross their borders without trouble.
The relationship between the warring alliances is more like north and south korea, try crossing the border there...

And even friendly countries have rules you have to follow... I mean just yesterday two Canadian girls got arrested for unknowingly crossing the border to America while playing pokemon go

Ok take middle ages people could come and go as want even if the motherland did like the neighbor countries and i think that could apply to ESO as well again most countries in ESO do trader with each other you have use imagination and RP think here

You're comparing european middle ages where everyone looked the same with a fictional world where people look different at first sight. It's hard not to notice a cat person amongst humans...
Also if they discovered your native language is that of an enemy country you'd have a short life.

Yeah, medieval Europe was actually really touchy about foreign "civilians" wandering into their territory. Their treatment would depend heavily on the respective current relations, but it could go horribly very fast.

starkerealm

josefcifkaeb17_ESO wrote: »

@starkerealm You yourself wrote that the conflict between each alliances outside of Cyrodiil is scarce

Complicated.

Under Imperial rule, it's quashed. Outside of Imperial rule, there's a lot of specific squabbling, like between the Nords and Bretons over The Reach, between the Bretons and Redguards over Bangkorai, between the Nords and the Dunmer, the Bosmer and the Khajiit, ect. When the Empire rolled through (both before the second era, and with the founding of the Septim Empire) those regional conflicts were suppressed. Everyone was expected to be part of the same unified political entity. But, that didn't do anything to quell the existing conflicts, it just forced them underground. Which fuels a lot of the xenophobia and resentment we see in the single player games and in ESO. Hell, it's a major plot point for Skyrim, and a strong theme with Morrowind.

What we see is the results of an Empire that imposed agnostic (not in the religious sense) laws, that applied equally to citizens of the Empire. The causes of the old conflicts weren't addressed, but the ability to act on them was. So, the resentments festered.

ESO actually shows that boiling over. There is no Empire to hold everyone together, so all of the old grievances are back on the table. Those grievances are the core force tearing the Alliances apart, which the player is working around as they play through each quest line.

Lysette

Well, Tamriel has no humans at all - they are all just humanoid at most - it is an alien planet where several races evolved into about equally valid and capable societies, which interact with each other in many ways. And to go for one of Sun Tzu's rules again, if you cannot beat the enemy, join them - basically that is what happens in the 3rd era - the era after ESO - all those alliances form an empire. But this is not the first time where all those races interact peacefully with each other, that was already the case before the conflict, otherwise there would not be an option like "any race, any alliance" - because it would not make sense at all. I conclude from this, that either ZOS made a ridiculous and greedy mistake to introduce this feature or ... the races interacted peacefully with each other before and formed multi-racial and multi-cultural societies before already.

josefcifkaeb17_ESO

@starkerealm I have a feeling you just like to write for the sake of arguing and don't mind contradicting yourself.
You'd make a good politician... I'm going to take my leave from this conversation for now as it leads nowhere ^^

Lysette

Josef there would be so many good examples for this - even recently - but it is not allowed to talk about real life politics on the forum so it is hard to support arguments.

Wolfshead

@josefcifkaeb17_ESO and @Lysette

Try to think outside box here i do know all that but fact you are playing a hero that move around in world which basically say that you can come and go as trader or what eveery from RP point view this will not be any problem for you can get invite from factions leader in all 3 factions ask for your help them with very import mission or what every fact is we can move free about in world or you can have get letter from factions leader which basically free access to there province and no one can touch you for your like hand of factions leader. This is after fantasy MMO/MMORPG with little imagination can work.

If you have play any other RP, pen and paper RP or even read fantasy novel you would understand this think

starkerealm

Lysette wrote: »

Well, Tamriel has no humans at all...

Intermittently, the various races of men are referred to as human. Not, human in the sense of you or me, but, eh, close enough. It's a convenient way to distinguish them from the elven and beast races.

Lysette wrote: »

I conclude from this, that either ZOS made a ridiculous and greedy mistake to introduce this feature or ... the races interacted peacefully with each other before and formed multi-racial and multi-cultural societies before already.

It's more reasonable to assume that prejudice doesn't operate as a binary state, and there are many potential levels, ranging from violence, to casual, pejorative stereotyping.

The setting uses racism as a persistent theme. It's not endorsing racism, but it is talking about it.

Lysette

I am fine with it, Wolfshead, I would want One Tamriel now, because it will finally offer me freedom to actually do what I want and not be forced to do quests to progress. I will do some, and leave most alone, because I am not willing to run errands for NPCs, which they could do by themselves, if they would not be too lazy to do them.

starkerealm

@josefcifkaeb17_ESO if you can identify a contradiction, and not just go, "oh, hey, you said a different thing some other time," then that might be helpful for clarifying a position.

But, you know, if you're honestly not going to bother...

Wolfshead

Lysette wrote: »

I am fine with it, Wolfshead, I would want One Tamriel now, because it will finally offer me freedom to actually do what I want and not be force to do quests to progress.

So true and honest to me it feel like ESO well become true MMORPG more MMO out there need take after this typ of think and as old Pen and Paper RP player i really feel you get alot more free from you can basically play how you want

starkerealm

@Wolfshead Honestly, the Alliance War always struck me as a bit of a mistake. It works for the context of PvP in Cyrodiil, but the implementation has always created problems where there didn't need to be any to begin with.

And, no, I've got no idea what they're going to offer as justification for this from an RP sense. I doubt it'll be, "Meridia has decided to drop you over here now." So, I just don't know. I honestly suspect there won't be any explanation, and we'll just be left to define our place, role, and how we justify all of this to our own devices. But, ZOS could prove me wrong. I'd be happy if they did.

Lysette

starkerealm wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Well, Tamriel has no humans at all...

Intermittently, the various races of men are referred to as human. Not, human in the sense of you or me, but, eh, close enough. It's a convenient way to distinguish them from the elven and beast races.

Lysette wrote: »

I conclude from this, that either ZOS made a ridiculous and greedy mistake to introduce this feature or ... the races interacted peacefully with each other before and formed multi-racial and multi-cultural societies before already.

It's more reasonable to assume that prejudice doesn't operate as a binary state, and there are many potential levels, ranging from violence, to casual, pejorative stereotyping.

The setting uses racism as a persistent theme. It's not endorsing racism, but it is talking about it.

Yeah, just like people talk about racism in south africa as well, even there is pretty much none and it is a peaceful rainbow society to the most part. It is all a matter of perspective - I see Tamriel as similar to south africa - to me it is peaceful to the most part and I do not see a lot of NPCs being worried about the war at all - some are mourning, because they have children, which are soldiers, but so be it - it is not different to when the USA was at war - most continued to live like before, didn't they?- I hope this reference to real politics is granted, because there is no way to otherwise show what I mean and support it with some evidence.

Wolfshead

starkerealm wrote: »

@Wolfshead Honestly, the Alliance War always struck me as a bit of a mistake. It works for the context of PvP in Cyrodiil, but the implementation has always created problems where there didn't need to be any to begin with.

And, no, I've got no idea what they're going to offer as justification for this from an RP sense. I doubt it'll be, "Meridia has decided to drop you over here now." So, I just don't know. I honestly suspect there won't be any explanation, and we'll just be left to define our place, role, and how we justify all of this to our own devices. But, ZOS could prove me wrong. I'd be happy if they did.

Well "country" have always fight about have the most power and ESO case the power are reside in "cyrodiil" or should i say Imperial City the one who control throne in Imperial City control Tamriel and as we the player fight for our factions mean if you sit on throne your delegate for your factions and you see to that your factions get best deal.

That is how in short version take example how factions wars work and yes i know i should like damn RP nerd now

josefcifkaeb17_ESO

Wolfshead wrote: »

@josefcifkaeb17_ESO and @Lysette

Try to think outside box here i do know all that but fact you are playing a hero that move around in world which basically say that you can come and go as trader or what eveery from RP point view this will not be any problem for you can get invite from factions leader in all 3 factions ask for your help them with very import mission or what every fact is we can move free about in world or you can have get letter from factions leader which basically free access to there province and no one can touch you for your like hand of factions leader. This is after fantasy MMO/MMORPG with little imagination can work.

If you have play any other RP, pen and paper RP or even read fantasy novel you would understand this think

Yea, but that's how it works now... You'll get access to other alliance maps once you establish yourself as a hero in Tamriel.

Once One Tamriel is out, you can go there at lvl 1 if you wish to do so, at lvl 1 you're no hero, you're just a civilian without a soul ^^
That's why I'd like to see a quest there to help with the immersion, if you had to get a clearance before visiting other alliance zones , there would be no problem. And actually joining the mages and/or fighters guild alone +/- qualifies you to do so, but it would be nice to to have it officially stated in the game.

Lysette

I do not want a quest for this - I want freedom for free - not to have to earn it - I am not the kind of person who likes quests, I am doing them, because I have to, but I am not fond of them - all I need is some nice open world and I find my own purpose, I do not need nor want a story which forces me into a role, I find my own.

starkerealm

josefcifkaeb17_ESO wrote: »

Wolfshead wrote: »

@josefcifkaeb17_ESO and @Lysette

Try to think outside box here i do know all that but fact you are playing a hero that move around in world which basically say that you can come and go as trader or what eveery from RP point view this will not be any problem for you can get invite from factions leader in all 3 factions ask for your help them with very import mission or what every fact is we can move free about in world or you can have get letter from factions leader which basically free access to there province and no one can touch you for your like hand of factions leader. This is after fantasy MMO/MMORPG with little imagination can work.

If you have play any other RP, pen and paper RP or even read fantasy novel you would understand this think

Yea, but that's how it works now... You'll get access to other alliance maps once you establish yourself as a hero in Tamriel.

Once One Tamriel is out, you can go there at lvl 1 if you wish to do so, at lvl 1 you're no hero, you're just a civilian without a soul ^^
That's why I'd like to see a quest there to help with the immersion, if you had to get a clearance before visiting other alliance zones , there would be no problem. And actually joining the mages and/or fighters guild alone +/- qualifies you to do so, but it would be nice to to have it officially stated in the game.

Ohhh. Yeah, no, that's not how it works right now.

What happens is, after you've finished the main storyline, Meridia sends you back to Tamriel while masking your identity from the world. There's a sort of mini-dragon-break... Meridia-break? Where you're being sent back to experience an alternate version of events as if you'd been deposited into that Alliance originally, instead of wherever you landed.

So, no one knows who you are. You're still perceived as soulless, even though you're not anymore. You're experiencing an alternate version of events.

When you stagger out the other side, people in those alliances still perceive you as having been their friend/ally/helper monkey, but you were actually in three different places at once (by the time you've finished Gold.)

Wolfshead

josefcifkaeb17_ESO wrote: »

Wolfshead wrote: »

@josefcifkaeb17_ESO and @Lysette

Try to think outside box here i do know all that but fact you are playing a hero that move around in world which basically say that you can come and go as trader or what eveery from RP point view this will not be any problem for you can get invite from factions leader in all 3 factions ask for your help them with very import mission or what every fact is we can move free about in world or you can have get letter from factions leader which basically free access to there province and no one can touch you for your like hand of factions leader. This is after fantasy MMO/MMORPG with little imagination can work.

If you have play any other RP, pen and paper RP or even read fantasy novel you would understand this think

Yea, but that's how it works now... You'll get access to other alliance maps once you establish yourself as a hero in Tamriel.

Once One Tamriel is out, you can go there at lvl 1 if you wish to do so, at lvl 1 you're no hero, you're just a civilian without a soul ^^
That's why I'd like to see a quest there to help with the immersion, if you had to get a clearance before visiting other alliance zones , there would be no problem. And actually joining the mages and/or fighters guild alone +/- qualifies you to do so, but it would be nice to to have it officially stated in the game.

Again you have think about side box you can very well get letter from one factions leader at lvl 1 or you could have work on secret mission which got from all 3 factions to infiltrate worm cult but you get capture and was send to coldharbour as offering to molag bal at one of Dolmen and you wake up in your cell when no soul and there is where you start.

josefcifkaeb17_ESO

@Lysette You realize this is a story driven game based on an incredibly rich lore right?
What you want is a description of a korean open world grind game without any quests whatsoever.

starkerealm

@josefcifkaeb17_ESO, what @Lysette is describing is more akin to a normal single player TES title. Which isn't, you know, outside the range of expectations for a multiplayer TES title.

josefcifkaeb17_ESO

Wolfshead wrote: »

josefcifkaeb17_ESO wrote: »

Wolfshead wrote: »

@josefcifkaeb17_ESO and @Lysette

Try to think outside box here i do know all that but fact you are playing a hero that move around in world which basically say that you can come and go as trader or what eveery from RP point view this will not be any problem for you can get invite from factions leader in all 3 factions ask for your help them with very import mission or what every fact is we can move free about in world or you can have get letter from factions leader which basically free access to there province and no one can touch you for your like hand of factions leader. This is after fantasy MMO/MMORPG with little imagination can work.

If you have play any other RP, pen and paper RP or even read fantasy novel you would understand this think

Yea, but that's how it works now... You'll get access to other alliance maps once you establish yourself as a hero in Tamriel.

Once One Tamriel is out, you can go there at lvl 1 if you wish to do so, at lvl 1 you're no hero, you're just a civilian without a soul ^^
That's why I'd like to see a quest there to help with the immersion, if you had to get a clearance before visiting other alliance zones , there would be no problem. And actually joining the mages and/or fighters guild alone +/- qualifies you to do so, but it would be nice to to have it officially stated in the game.

Again you have think about side box you can very well get letter from one factions leader at lvl 1 or you could have work on secret mission which got from all 3 factions to infiltrate worm cult but you get capture and was send to coldharbour as offering to molag bal at one of Dolmen and you wake up in your cell when no soul and there is where you start.

Uh, yea, it's normal that kings look for lonely civilians that never did anything worthwhile nor have any special powers to recruit them to be a hero. Coming up with RP stories is good, but if you ask me they should also make sense.

If your lvl 1 RP character is immediately a hero and a master of the universe, you won't be liked much in the role playing community.

Lysette

josefcifkaeb17_ESO wrote: »

@Lysette You realize this is a story driven game based on an incredibly rich lore right?
What you want is a description of a korean open world grind game without any quests whatsoever.

Well it is "play as you want" - and I do not want to do one quest after the other - I never did that in any of the TES games and enjoyed them nevertheless - I rather stumble into situations then to follow quests. I might or might not get the story, so be it, I am not here to read a book or play out a given story, but to experience my own story in a game world. For those, who like the story-driven content fine - they can enjoy it - I do not, I enjoy free roaming and finding my own destiny and stories.

starkerealm

@Lysette, Reaper's March is still going to be, "hey, Player Character, you missed a stage, go back one step," on repeat, though, right?

josefcifkaeb17_ESO

starkerealm wrote: »

@josefcifkaeb17_ESO, what @Lysette is describing is more akin to a normal single player TES title. Which isn't, you know, outside the range of expectations for a multiplayer TES title.

You can roam the world in other TES games doing only sidequests, but that doesn't change the fact that the objective of the game is to finish the main story line. It all comes down to personal preferences, there might be a few people who never finish the game, but it doesn't change the fact the story line is there to be followed and finished.

Lysette

starkerealm wrote: »

@Lysette, Reaper's March is still going to be, "hey, Player Character, you missed a stage, go back one step," on repeat, though, right?

why would I even want to do the main quest with One Tamriel - I can completely ignore what I do not want to do - there is nothing to gain there beside a few skill points, which I do not need, if I do not intend to be a heroine. I rather have a nice enjoyable adventurer-life than a stressful and dangerous heroine-life with a lot of unwanted deaths - I do not like to die in a game, so I do what gives me pleasure - dying is none of those things, and being a heroine even less - I am a free roaming person, who is selfishly doing what she likes, sometimes helping others but most of the time when I hear "help us, we cannot resist any longer" I just think "then don't" and move on. I am looking for things, which are fun to do, which entertain and relax me, running errands for NPCs is none of those things - I am not looking for stressful gameplay - so One Tamriel will be very good for what I want - finally I do not have to follow given paths, but can do my own thing after my leisure.