Suggestion: Change Wrath to this...

UltimaJoe777 · July 2016

Rank 1: Nullifies 10% of an attacker's Penetration.
Rank 2: Nullifies 20% of an attacker's Penetration.

Don't really care what it's called but this would make Heavy Armor WAY more viable in PvP without going overboard.

Forestd16b14_ESO · July 2016

Make it 30 then 40 and it's a "[tohawt]ING YES" from me....

Just be ready for the "meta tanks" to flood in saying "get gud" and "L2P" and "malubeth" cause you know.... "Tanking is the meta cause we have damage now" .........................

susmitds · July 2016

As if PvP tanks were not OP enough.

DUTCH_REAPER · July 2016

I like what wraith gives my mDK in pvp. And no he is not a tank. That extra 200 goes towards his limited dps as it is topping him off at about 3150. With two swords, both with sharpened and 67 CP into spell pen it's good. Would actually like wraith slightly increased. Just my opinion. Remember not just tanks are wearing heavy armor in pvp now.

Forestd16b14_ESO · July 2016

susmitds wrote: »

As if PvP tanks were not OP enough.

Those players are not tanks they are cheese players using a clearly OP monster set. Seriously ZoS nerf Malubeth already cause I do not wanna see tanks nerfed for another 2 years cause of the wanna be immortal cheese players.

Also as for perma-blocking well as a certain dev said (he who shall not be named) even said wanna block you have to invest into it now and the result is perma-blocking so want some one to blame for that well you know who blame.

GreenSoup2HoT · July 2016

I'd rather see heavy armours Wrath get more critical resistance. Penetration is needed imo to kill tanks or else Mauls are useless.

With more critical resistance you wont be bursted down easily compared to less penetration. With less penetration your criticals will still hit hard. Its those bursty spikes of damage which need to be reduced.

Forestd16b14_ESO · July 2016

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

I'd rather see heavy armours Wrath get more critical resistance. Penetration is needed imo to kill tanks or else Mauls are useless.

With more critical resistance you wont be bursted down easily compared to less penetration. With less penetration your criticals will still hit hard. Its those bursty spikes of damage which need to be reduced.

Yes crit res is something that should be a passive in HA but penetration is what literally kills tanks in PvP as you said but the amount of penetration players can do is overkill and I strongly disapprove of such a thing as overkill. (worth doing worth over doing).

The amount of penetration a player can do turns heavy armor in a bath robe literally that 33K res goes all the way down to light armor level of resistance if not less. Heavy armor needs a passive that reduces penetration effects other wise Ha will still be horribly under powered.

Also again those "tanks" in pvp are cheese players using malubeth in combo with black rose. They are not tanks they are cowards hiding behind stupidly OP sets that should not force a play style to use that set or not play that style at all. Like DPS players have 10s to 30s of sets to choose from to PvP in but for tanks it's either Malubeth X blackrose or don't tank at all which is stupid.

UltimaJoe777 · July 2016

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

I'd rather see heavy armours Wrath get more critical resistance. Penetration is needed imo to kill tanks or else Mauls are useless.

With more critical resistance you wont be bursted down easily compared to less penetration. With less penetration your criticals will still hit hard. Its those bursty spikes of damage which need to be reduced.

Problem is Penetration matches Resistance far too equally. Heavy Armor needs something to take the load off so people actually consider truly Tanking in PvP. Malubeth is just bugged so can't really use that as an argument lol

Forestd16b14_ESO · July 2016

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

show previous quotes

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

I'd rather see heavy armours Wrath get more critical resistance. Penetration is needed imo to kill tanks or else Mauls are useless.

With more critical resistance you wont be bursted down easily compared to less penetration. With less penetration your criticals will still hit hard. Its those bursty spikes of damage which need to be reduced.

Problem is Penetration matches Resistance far too equally. Heavy Armor needs something to take the load off so people actually consider truly Tanking in PvP. Malubeth is just bugged so that can't really use that as an argument lol

^

dday3six · July 2016

You get that even at 20% it's not enough of a difference to give most builds even an extra hit...

Try to do the math and run the numbers, don't just throw out ideas and expect others to iron out the details for you.

Forestd16b14_ESO · July 2016

dday3six wrote: »

You get that even at 20% it's not enough of a difference to give most builds even an extra hit...

Try to do the math and run the numbers, don't just throw out ideas and expect others to iron out the details for you.

Which is why I suggest 50% or 60% resistance to penetration.

Qbiken · July 2016

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

show previous quotes

susmitds wrote: »

As if PvP tanks were not OP enough.

Those players are not tanks they are cheese players using a clearly OP monster set. Seriously ZoS nerf Malubeth already cause I do not wanna see tanks nerfed for another 2 years cause of the wanna be immortal cheese players.

Also as for perma-blocking well as a certain dev said (he who shall not be named) even said wanna block you have to invest into it now and the result is perma-blocking so want some one to blame for that well you know who blame.

Once and for all: Malubeth needs "Fixing" not nerfing.

UltimaJoe777 · July 2016

dday3six wrote: »

You get that even at 20% it's not enough of a difference to give most builds even an extra hit...

Try to do the math and run the numbers, don't just throw out ideas and expect others to iron out the details for you.

The reason I gave the figures I did is because I did not want to make Heavy Armor seem too OP. It also corresponds with Mace passive's Penetration. Perhaps you should think about multiple angles of suggestions. Also wouldn't kill ya to try making a constructive comment without acting like a jerk.

Forestd16b14_ESO · July 2016

Qbiken wrote: »

show previous quotes

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

As if PvP tanks were not OP enough.

Those players are not tanks they are cheese players using a clearly OP monster set. Seriously ZoS nerf Malubeth already cause I do not wanna see tanks nerfed for another 2 years cause of the wanna be immortal cheese players.

Also as for perma-blocking well as a certain dev said (he who shall not be named) even said wanna block you have to invest into it now and the result is perma-blocking so want some one to blame for that well you know who blame.

Once and for all: Malubeth needs "Fixing" not nerfing.

Malubeth was fixed from its bug of double dipping healing from its crit value what it is now is just straight up over powered and I know no one wants to here it but Malubeth needs nerfed ok their is no sugar coating it. Malubeth is over powered and it needs nerfed or as magicka users been screaming lately towards stamina users "balanced".

dday3six · July 2016

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

show previous quotes

dday3six wrote: »

You get that even at 20% it's not enough of a difference to give most builds even an extra hit...

Try to do the math and run the numbers, don't just throw out ideas and expect others to iron out the details for you.

The reason I gave the figures I did is because I did not want to make Heavy Armor seem too OP. It also corresponds with Mace passive's Penetration. Perhaps you should think about multiple angles of suggestions. Also wouldn't kill ya to try making a constructive comment without acting like a jerk.

If you want it to match up with the Mace passive then you need to actually put the number. As you've worded it will be 10% and 20% of that number. The problem with doing is the number actually grows with the stats of targets.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but people are not obligated to overly positive to you at ever juncture. You not likely my delivery doesn't somehow nullify the facts of the statement.

UltimaJoe777 · July 2016

dday3six wrote: »

show previous quotes

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

You get that even at 20% it's not enough of a difference to give most builds even an extra hit...

Try to do the math and run the numbers, don't just throw out ideas and expect others to iron out the details for you.

The reason I gave the figures I did is because I did not want to make Heavy Armor seem too OP. It also corresponds with Mace passive's Penetration. Perhaps you should think about multiple angles of suggestions. Also wouldn't kill ya to try making a constructive comment without acting like a jerk.

If you want it to match up with the Mace passive then you need to actually put the number. As you've worded it will be 10% and 20% of that number. The problem with doing is the number actually grows with the stats of targets.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but people are not obligated to overly positive to you at ever juncture. You not likely my delivery doesn't somehow nullify the facts of the statement.

I have no beef with anyone disagreeing with me. I do, however, have beef with every disagreement being either passive aggressive or flat out trying to insult me. Negative constructive criticism is one thing, but negativity flat out is another. As for your point I really only gave the figures I did for 3 reasons:

1. An example
2. Hinting at a way to counter the natural Penetration of Maces
3. A means of Heavy Armor not becoming OP to the point people just won't die in Cyrodiil

I don't deal in actual algorithms in a game so I leave that to those more savvy in that field. My intention here was pure suggestion, that's all. After all, Penetration is the reason no one finds Resistance any good in PvP, and while Wrath isn't the worst passive there is it doesn't exactly fit in too well with Heavy Armor, unless you wanna be a heavily armored warrior lol

dday3six · July 2016

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

show previous quotes

dday3six wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

You get that even at 20% it's not enough of a difference to give most builds even an extra hit...

Try to do the math and run the numbers, don't just throw out ideas and expect others to iron out the details for you.

The reason I gave the figures I did is because I did not want to make Heavy Armor seem too OP. It also corresponds with Mace passive's Penetration. Perhaps you should think about multiple angles of suggestions. Also wouldn't kill ya to try making a constructive comment without acting like a jerk.

If you want it to match up with the Mace passive then you need to actually put the number. As you've worded it will be 10% and 20% of that number. The problem with doing is the number actually grows with the stats of targets.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but people are not obligated to overly positive to you at ever juncture. You not likely my delivery doesn't somehow nullify the facts of the statement.

I have no beef with anyone disagreeing with me. I do, however, have beef with every disagreement being either passive aggressive or flat out trying to insult me. Negative constructive criticism is one thing, but negativity flat out is another. As for your point I really only gave the figures I did for 3 reasons:

1. An example
2. Hinting at a way to counter the natural Penetration of Maces
3. A means of Heavy Armor not becoming OP to the point people just won't die in Cyrodiil

I don't deal in actual algorithms in a game so I leave that to those more savvy in that field. My intention here was pure suggestion, that's all. After all, Penetration is the reason no one finds Resistance any good in PvP, and while Wrath isn't the worst passive there is it doesn't exactly fit in too well with Heavy Armor, unless you wanna be a heavily armored warrior lol

It clearly seems as if you assoicate negativity with disagreement. I called you out on something, you admit to doing just that and say I'm being negative to you.

Here's the deal, you are not Steve Jobs...

You want people to approach your ideas with more gravitas and respond to them in a more positive fashion. Be willing to actually do the legwork surrounding the more intricate details of those ideas rather than expecting to be rewarded with affirmation for just for having them.

Tormy · July 2016

I like wrath how it is now tho

UltimaJoe777 · July 2016

dday3six wrote: »

show previous quotes

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

You get that even at 20% it's not enough of a difference to give most builds even an extra hit...

Try to do the math and run the numbers, don't just throw out ideas and expect others to iron out the details for you.

The reason I gave the figures I did is because I did not want to make Heavy Armor seem too OP. It also corresponds with Mace passive's Penetration. Perhaps you should think about multiple angles of suggestions. Also wouldn't kill ya to try making a constructive comment without acting like a jerk.

If you want it to match up with the Mace passive then you need to actually put the number. As you've worded it will be 10% and 20% of that number. The problem with doing is the number actually grows with the stats of targets.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but people are not obligated to overly positive to you at ever juncture. You not likely my delivery doesn't somehow nullify the facts of the statement.

I have no beef with anyone disagreeing with me. I do, however, have beef with every disagreement being either passive aggressive or flat out trying to insult me. Negative constructive criticism is one thing, but negativity flat out is another. As for your point I really only gave the figures I did for 3 reasons:

1. An example
2. Hinting at a way to counter the natural Penetration of Maces
3. A means of Heavy Armor not becoming OP to the point people just won't die in Cyrodiil

I don't deal in actual algorithms in a game so I leave that to those more savvy in that field. My intention here was pure suggestion, that's all. After all, Penetration is the reason no one finds Resistance any good in PvP, and while Wrath isn't the worst passive there is it doesn't exactly fit in too well with Heavy Armor, unless you wanna be a heavily armored warrior lol

It clearly seems as if you assoicate negativity with disagreement. I called you out on something, you admit to doing just that and say I'm being negative to you.

Here's the deal, you are not Steve Jobs...

You want people to approach your ideas with more gravitas and respond to them in a more positive fashion. Be willing to actually do the legwork surrounding the more intricate details of those ideas rather than expecting to be rewarded with affirmation for just for having them.

Apparently you either fail to see the hostility you bring to your posts or you simply do not acknowledge it. Until you can realize your attitude is hostile every time you disagree with me we are done here. I am ignoring you now.

dday3six · July 2016

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

show previous quotes

dday3six wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

You get that even at 20% it's not enough of a difference to give most builds even an extra hit...

Try to do the math and run the numbers, don't just throw out ideas and expect others to iron out the details for you.

The reason I gave the figures I did is because I did not want to make Heavy Armor seem too OP. It also corresponds with Mace passive's Penetration. Perhaps you should think about multiple angles of suggestions. Also wouldn't kill ya to try making a constructive comment without acting like a jerk.

If you want it to match up with the Mace passive then you need to actually put the number. As you've worded it will be 10% and 20% of that number. The problem with doing is the number actually grows with the stats of targets.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but people are not obligated to overly positive to you at ever juncture. You not likely my delivery doesn't somehow nullify the facts of the statement.

I have no beef with anyone disagreeing with me. I do, however, have beef with every disagreement being either passive aggressive or flat out trying to insult me. Negative constructive criticism is one thing, but negativity flat out is another. As for your point I really only gave the figures I did for 3 reasons:

1. An example
2. Hinting at a way to counter the natural Penetration of Maces
3. A means of Heavy Armor not becoming OP to the point people just won't die in Cyrodiil

I don't deal in actual algorithms in a game so I leave that to those more savvy in that field. My intention here was pure suggestion, that's all. After all, Penetration is the reason no one finds Resistance any good in PvP, and while Wrath isn't the worst passive there is it doesn't exactly fit in too well with Heavy Armor, unless you wanna be a heavily armored warrior lol

It clearly seems as if you assoicate negativity with disagreement. I called you out on something, you admit to doing just that and say I'm being negative to you.

Here's the deal, you are not Steve Jobs...

You want people to approach your ideas with more gravitas and respond to them in a more positive fashion. Be willing to actually do the legwork surrounding the more intricate details of those ideas rather than expecting to be rewarded with affirmation for just for having them.

Apparently you either fail to see the hostility you bring to your posts or you simply do not acknowledge it. Until you can realize your attitude is hostile every time you disagree with me we are done here. I am ignoring you now.

I truly pity any individual who sees hostility from disagreement. That's a cruel lot.

Vangy · July 2016

dday3six wrote: »

show previous quotes

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

You get that even at 20% it's not enough of a difference to give most builds even an extra hit...

Try to do the math and run the numbers, don't just throw out ideas and expect others to iron out the details for you.

The reason I gave the figures I did is because I did not want to make Heavy Armor seem too OP. It also corresponds with Mace passive's Penetration. Perhaps you should think about multiple angles of suggestions. Also wouldn't kill ya to try making a constructive comment without acting like a jerk.

If you want it to match up with the Mace passive then you need to actually put the number. As you've worded it will be 10% and 20% of that number. The problem with doing is the number actually grows with the stats of targets.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but people are not obligated to overly positive to you at ever juncture. You not likely my delivery doesn't somehow nullify the facts of the statement.

I have no beef with anyone disagreeing with me. I do, however, have beef with every disagreement being either passive aggressive or flat out trying to insult me. Negative constructive criticism is one thing, but negativity flat out is another. As for your point I really only gave the figures I did for 3 reasons:

1. An example
2. Hinting at a way to counter the natural Penetration of Maces
3. A means of Heavy Armor not becoming OP to the point people just won't die in Cyrodiil

I don't deal in actual algorithms in a game so I leave that to those more savvy in that field. My intention here was pure suggestion, that's all. After all, Penetration is the reason no one finds Resistance any good in PvP, and while Wrath isn't the worst passive there is it doesn't exactly fit in too well with Heavy Armor, unless you wanna be a heavily armored warrior lol

It clearly seems as if you assoicate negativity with disagreement. I called you out on something, you admit to doing just that and say I'm being negative to you.

Here's the deal, you are not Steve Jobs...

You want people to approach your ideas with more gravitas and respond to them in a more positive fashion. Be willing to actually do the legwork surrounding the more intricate details of those ideas rather than expecting to be rewarded with affirmation for just for having them.

Apparently you either fail to see the hostility you bring to your posts or you simply do not acknowledge it. Until you can realize your attitude is hostile every time you disagree with me we are done here. I am ignoring you now.

I truly pity any individual who sees hostility from disagreement. That's a cruel lot.

You know... you can disagree without being abrasive. You can be frank without being harsh..... A little thought before key-board warrioring goes a long way. Its okay to disagree. Its not okay to be snarky tho. And you may not have meant it, but the way your comments read makes it so. (imo). You'll find a lot more people willing to have a conversation with you if you try to be constructive in a positive manner.

This;

dday3six wrote: »

You get that even at 20% it's not enough of a difference to give most builds even an extra hit...Try to do the math and run the numbers, don't just throw out ideas and expect others to iron out the details for you. You need to suggest more worthwhile numbers with a little math involved.

means the same thing but comes across as a lot less abrasive. Peace out.

Mac10murda · July 2016

Maybe buff nirn on armor to give a higher resist

CasNation · July 2016

I kinda like the spell damage wrath gives me...if you are suggesting adding additionAL penetration resist, fine. If you are suggesting replacing the damage, no thanks.

Ashamray · July 2016

Do you suggest a counter of counter? makes no sense )

Forestd16b14_ESO · July 2016

CasNation wrote: »

I kinda like the spell damage wrath gives me...if you are suggesting adding additionAL penetration resist, fine. If you are suggesting replacing the damage, no thanks.

Sorry but heavy armor never needed a damage buff to begin with. Like sorry but its stupid that people think you can be a heavy armor DPS that what got heavy armor nerfed for 2 years to begin with was cause people want damage and to immortal. It's you area glass cannon, meat shield, or some where in between that not to immortal and not to cannon.

Wearing full robes you should be able to deal easily 20K damage but die in 1 or 2 hits, wearing full metal armor should take a entire raid to kill you and you should not be able to kill said raid.

Like really what are players not understanding about the purpose of heavy armor ? It's meant to take damage not deal it period there is no ifs ands or buts about it want damage wear LA or MA want defense wear HA want some where in between use some of your enchantments and attribute points into health.

UltimaJoe777 · July 2016

CasNation wrote: »

I kinda like the spell damage wrath gives me...if you are suggesting adding additionAL penetration resist, fine. If you are suggesting replacing the damage, no thanks.

I would honestly see no problem in adding it to Wrath but Wrath alone... You never reach its max buff. Not unless you get nipped at by a dozen weak enemies all at once lol

Mac10murda wrote: »

Maybe buff nirn on armor to give a higher resist

Nah wouldn't work as a trait.

DUTCH_REAPER · July 2016

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

show previous quotes

CasNation wrote: »

I kinda like the spell damage wrath gives me...if you are suggesting adding additionAL penetration resist, fine. If you are suggesting replacing the damage, no thanks.

Sorry but heavy armor never needed a damage buff to begin with. Like sorry but its stupid that people think you can be a heavy armor DPS that what got heavy armor nerfed for 2 years to begin with was cause people want damage and to immortal. It's you area glass cannon, meat shield, or some where in between that not to immortal and not to cannon.

Wearing full robes you should be able to deal easily 20K damage but die in 1 or 2 hits, wearing full metal armor should take a entire raid to kill you and you should not be able to kill said raid.

Like really what are players not understanding about the purpose of heavy armor ? It's meant to take damage not deal it period there is no ifs ands or buts about it want damage wear LA or MA want defense wear HA want some where in between use some of your enchantments and attribute points into health.

You must not play a mag DK in guessing? Whoever said we want to be a pure dps? No one after rereading through the above posts. But with wraith HA can now be used in pvp for some classes to be more effective. My fire Mage trials DK in LA has 33k dps. My pvp HA mag DK has 11k dps. No one is trying to be a dps boss in HA hahaha.

Before this armor update I would never wear a 5 piece HA in pvp. With these changes new builds are possible. Mind you CPs need to distributed accordingly now since LA gives so much more with regard to damage.

Armitas · July 2016

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Rank 1: Nullifies 10% of an attacker's Penetration.
Rank 2: Nullifies 20% of an attacker's Penetration.

Don't really care what it's called but this would make Heavy Armor WAY more viable in PvP without going overboard.

Both Wrath and this need to exist because the penetration is ridiculous in pvp. Penetration is why shields and perma dodges are so prevalent. Maybe put it under resolve.

Forestd16b14_ESO · July 2016

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

show previous quotes

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

CasNation wrote: »

I kinda like the spell damage wrath gives me...if you are suggesting adding additionAL penetration resist, fine. If you are suggesting replacing the damage, no thanks.

Sorry but heavy armor never needed a damage buff to begin with. Like sorry but its stupid that people think you can be a heavy armor DPS that what got heavy armor nerfed for 2 years to begin with was cause people want damage and to immortal. It's you area glass cannon, meat shield, or some where in between that not to immortal and not to cannon.

Wearing full robes you should be able to deal easily 20K damage but die in 1 or 2 hits, wearing full metal armor should take a entire raid to kill you and you should not be able to kill said raid.

Like really what are players not understanding about the purpose of heavy armor ? It's meant to take damage not deal it period there is no ifs ands or buts about it want damage wear LA or MA want defense wear HA want some where in between use some of your enchantments and attribute points into health.

You must not play a mag DK in guessing? Whoever said we want to be a pure dps? No one after rereading through the above posts. But with wraith HA can now be used in pvp for some classes to be more effective. My fire Mage trials DK in LA has 33k dps. My pvp HA mag DK has 11k dps. No one is trying to be a dps boss in HA hahaha.

Before this armor update I would never wear a 5 piece HA in pvp. With these changes new builds are possible. Mind you CPs need to distributed accordingly now since LA gives so much more with regard to damage.

And you must not be keeping up with the "meta" that heavy armor dps is appearntly they way to go.... Short version wraith needs to go period.

Frawr · July 2016

Every player has 7920 innate penetration.

Mace reduces enemy armour by 20%. If they have 25k physical mit then mace removes 5k.

Therefore a player with a mace ignores 13k of mitigation before debuffs/cp.

Think about that. Half of all resistance is gone before the attacker even has to engage brain.

Heavy was not supposed to passively mitigate massively because block was supposed to be the damage reducer.

The problem is that they have massively increased player damage output without increasing mitigation. In addition, they have also nerfed block by stopping stam regen and also by allowing some cc to ignore it. With the massive burst meta, unblockable cc causes real problems.

Ironically, zenimax solution to heavy armour was to remove block cost reduction and replace with 200 weapon damage.

Don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Real Solution:

Remove player innate penetration from the game (it is irrelevant for pve and stupid in pvp).

CasNation · July 2016

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

show previous quotes

CasNation wrote: »

I kinda like the spell damage wrath gives me...if you are suggesting adding additionAL penetration resist, fine. If you are suggesting replacing the damage, no thanks.

Sorry but heavy armor never needed a damage buff to begin with. Like sorry but its stupid that people think you can be a heavy armor DPS that what got heavy armor nerfed for 2 years to begin with was cause people want damage and to immortal. It's you area glass cannon, meat shield, or some where in between that not to immortal and not to cannon.

Wearing full robes you should be able to deal easily 20K damage but die in 1 or 2 hits, wearing full metal armor should take a entire raid to kill you and you should not be able to kill said raid.

Like really what are players not understanding about the purpose of heavy armor ? It's meant to take damage not deal it period there is no ifs ands or buts about it want damage wear LA or MA want defense wear HA want some where in between use some of your enchantments and attribute points into health.

Who the hell said I was using heavy in a DPS build? I heal/tank on my templar, and the extra spell damage is very useful to me since it is pretty much a free 200 SD to heal with as a tank.

Just because the passive doesn't fit with your narrow perception of how everything "should" work, doesn't mean that the passive isn't useful at all.