Is small scale still common

cambergang

Im talking about solo play to 6 man group that don't Zerg surf. Every time i get a group invite from a random its almost always a 20 man group I've done this on all factions its just annoy try to get a good open world 1v1 or 1vx without a 24 man just destroying my day.

Mako1132

no, it doesn't exist

I'll be calling in my zerg to zerg this poll as well.

Ffastyl

Where's the intermediate "maybe, small scale is uncommon" option?

HoloYoitsu

no, it doesn't exist

Let me explain for you Wrobel & Wheeler's vision for how PvP works:

CatchMeTrolling

When was it ever common ?

Hyssia

Yes, small scale is common

Smallscale isn't dead.

But it sure as hell is demotivating once there's 2-4 zergs of the same faction attacking one keep.

*cough* kerbtrain *cough*

thankyourat

no, it doesn't exist

Small scale has never really been common. I'm having a harder time finding it right now, but it's still around. It's gotten harder to be a solo player because of all these snares, roots and CCs thought. They get worse every update

HoloYoitsu

no, it doesn't exist

Hardly, smallscale was very very common for the first 6 months of the game. The original removal of FCs is what first began destroying it and pushing everyone to the zerg meta.

Lucky28

Yes, small scale is common

yeah. fighting in a small group 4 -7 is the best PvP in the game. i mean fighting outnumbered is actually really fun.

Sandman929

Small scale can always exist. Get a little group and go take resources...all the resources.

HoloYoitsu

no, it doesn't exist

Sandman929 wrote: »

Small scale can always exist. Get a little group and go take resources...all the resources.

Small scaling vs NPCs, always the most exciting way to small scale.

Papa_Hunt

Yes, small scale is common

Yes, but only because I have 1 or 2 people I group with. Now finding like groups to fight is the hard part.

Xsorus

Go to imperial city

Derra

Yes, small scale is common

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Hardly, smallscale was very very common for the first 6 months of the game. The original removal of FCs is what first began destroying it and pushing everyone to the zerg meta.

My grp and i had the best smallscale after the removal of forward camps because people actually used their horse to travel somewhere then...
With forward camps they mostly bloodgated (who still knows that expression) in a resource to spawn somewhere at a camp where we´d never see them again (that might have been an US EU difference though).

Ghost-Shot

no, it doesn't exist

Derra wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Hardly, smallscale was very very common for the first 6 months of the game. The original removal of FCs is what first began destroying it and pushing everyone to the zerg meta.

My grp and i had the best smallscale after the removal of forward camps because people actually used their horse to travel somewhere then...
With forward camps they mostly bloodgated (who still knows that expression) in a resource to spawn somewhere at a camp where we´d never see them again (that might have been an US EU difference though).

Oh god the blood porting, got that scroll almost home and boom, AD camp drops, out comes Emperor Fireshot and everyone dies before they even know what happened lol.

Sandman929

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Small scale can always exist. Get a little group and go take resources...all the resources.

Small scaling vs NPCs, always the most exciting way to small scale.

At first yes, but eventually they will come after you, and it probably won't be the whole horde.

Derra

Yes, small scale is common

Sandman929 wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Small scale can always exist. Get a little group and go take resources...all the resources.

Small scaling vs NPCs, always the most exciting way to small scale.

At first yes, but eventually they will come after you, and it probably won't be the whole horde.

Just play EP. Camp arrius mine enjoy endless stream of DC and AD coming to you.

Sandman929

Derra wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Small scale can always exist. Get a little group and go take resources...all the resources.

Small scaling vs NPCs, always the most exciting way to small scale.

At first yes, but eventually they will come after you, and it probably won't be the whole horde.

Just play EP. Camp arrius mine enjoy endless stream of DC and AD coming to you.

Well that's not really small scale. I'm just saying you have to coax small scale engagements with resources. You can't expect that there's going to be an arranged 6v6 keep battle. Taking resources usually results in 5-6 coming to take it back...good for you, and good for those fighting the keep battles when you're cutting transit lines.

Derra

Yes, small scale is common

Sandman929 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Small scale can always exist. Get a little group and go take resources...all the resources.

Small scaling vs NPCs, always the most exciting way to small scale.

At first yes, but eventually they will come after you, and it probably won't be the whole horde.

Just play EP. Camp arrius mine enjoy endless stream of DC and AD coming to you.

Well that's not really small scale. I'm just saying you have to coax small scale engagements with resources. You can't expect that there's going to be an arranged 6v6 keep battle. Taking resources usually results in 5-6 coming to take it back...good for you, and good for those fighting the keep battles when you're cutting transit lines.

Well you just stay infront of the mob ofc.

When the risk of getting overwhelmed becomes an immediate threat to your characters live this smallscale technique offers the possibility of a strategic fallback into friendly territory avoiding death and possible long walking distances.

Best of both worlds

Jules

Yes, small scale is common

Mako1132 wrote: »

I'll be calling in my zerg to zerg this poll as well.

manozerg

Satiar

Derra wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Hardly, smallscale was very very common for the first 6 months of the game. The original removal of FCs is what first began destroying it and pushing everyone to the zerg meta.

My grp and i had the best smallscale after the removal of forward camps because people actually used their horse to travel somewhere then...
With forward camps they mostly bloodgated (who still knows that expression) in a resource to spawn somewhere at a camp where we´d never see them again (that might have been an US EU difference though).

Our small man thrived during the forward camp era. We either took out forward camps or stood in the supply lines between keeps. The fact was that while the majority of guild groups could use Forward Camps, most pugs would end up having to ride back. A good 2-5 man like ours could completely separate a guild from pug reinforcements, isolating them from back up. You could also cause a lot of disruption to guild groups by picking off the healers in the back lines on their way to objectives. Eventually there ended up being a whole lil PvP ecosystem there, where various small man groups would compete for the AP between Sej/BRK/Alessia, Nickel/Roe/Ash, Bleakers/Chal/Aleswell. It's how VE ended up running into the Murdo group, the Quietus group, Mostly Harmless, etc.

After camps were removed people feared death a lot more. On PC NA we began to see groups that had traveled in 3s, 5s or 10s start moving in 20+ to get from point A to point B. They also knew you couldn't just camp up if you died, so it would not be unusual for Teargrants and I to be chased for miles by 30 people. The rest of our group was DKs and Templars and you know how that story goes for mobility.

TLDR: the first removal of forward camps made it difficult to small man the way we used to, and almost all the groups based around it on PC NA died soon afterwards. It's not a coincidence that almost all the remaining small man groups afterwards were eithe Permastealth NBs or Sorcs. The game simply became unfriendly to that kind of play, finding fun fights was nearly impossible.

HoloYoitsu

no, it doesn't exist

Satiar wrote: »

After camps were removed people feared death a lot more. On PC NA we began to see groups that had traveled in 3s, 5s or 10s start moving in 20+ to get from point A to point B. They also knew you couldn't just camp up if you died, so it would not be unusual for Teargrants and I to be chased for miles by 30 people. The rest of our group was DKs and Templars and you know how that story goes for mobility.

This is what happened to steve once he got chased down.

I'm the one in the cool sunglasses.

zyk

Satiar wrote: »

After camps were removed people feared death a lot more. On PC NA we began to see groups that had traveled in 3s, 5s or 10s start moving in 20+ to get from point A to point B. They also knew you couldn't just camp up if you died, so it would not be unusual for Teargrants and I to be chased for miles by 30 people. The rest of our group was DKs and Templars and you know how that story goes for mobility.

I don't think the removal of FCs made players feel less safe when travelling between keeps. It's not like players traveling between camps were constantly dropping FCs.

My recollection as a random player who traveled between keeps a lot before and after the removal of FCs (because I didn't like to blood port) is that travel groups became larger because more players were traveling by horse.

I think the kind of player you encountered changed drastically as most grouped players had to blood port to keep up with their teammates.

I loved that change at the time. From my POV, combat between lanes became much more interesting as they were much more active with PVP players -- not just players who were new, had an aversion to blood porting or in Cyrodiil for PVE.

Satiar

zyk wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

After camps were removed people feared death a lot more. On PC NA we began to see groups that had traveled in 3s, 5s or 10s start moving in 20+ to get from point A to point B. They also knew you couldn't just camp up if you died, so it would not be unusual for Teargrants and I to be chased for miles by 30 people. The rest of our group was DKs and Templars and you know how that story goes for mobility.

I don't think the removal of FCs made players feel less safe when travelling between keeps. It's not like players traveling between camps were constantly dropping FCs.

My recollection as a random player who traveled between keeps a lot before and after the removal of FCs (because I didn't like to blood port) is that travel groups became larger because more players were traveling by horse.

I think the kind of player you encountered changed drastically as most grouped players had to blood port to keep up with their teammates.

I loved that change at the time. From my POV, combat between lanes became much more interesting as they were much more active with PVP players -- not just players who were new, had an aversion to blood porting or in Cyrodiil for PVE.

Eh. It became a lot more zergy. Which made it much, much harder to find good fights. There's a big fetish for outnumbered fighting in ESO but my fondest memories were the fights with other small mans that arose organically in the lanes.

It got so hard to find those after a while that Bulbasir and I seriously considered making our own version of Legacy, but for dedicated 3v3/4v4/etc. We made the guild, and briefly tried finding interested parties but nothing really came of it. It was after that that we turned in the direction of raiding.

Lokey0024

Yes, small scale is common

If by smallscale you meant 5 templars, 4 bol, jab spammers and a 60k hp blazing shield tank. Or the 3 NB stealthing and insta nuking 1 player.l, then yes, alive and well.

zyk

Satiar wrote: »

Eh. It became a lot more zergy. Which made it much, much harder to find good fights. There's a big fetish for outnumbered fighting in ESO but my fondest memories were the fights with other small mans that arose organically in the lanes.

It got so hard to find those after a while that Bulbasir and I seriously considered making our own version of Legacy, but for dedicated 3v3/4v4/etc. We made the guild, and briefly tried finding interested parties but nothing really came of it. It was after that that we turned in the direction of raiding.

I can see how the removal of FCs would have adversely effected the kind of gameplay I think you are describing.

For me, it was completely different. I don't really enjoy PVP without objectives, so it was nice to see an influx of objective-minded players and combat in the lanes. I saw it as highly dynamic which I also enjoyed.

I prefer games with consequences to dying. They make encounters with opponents much more interesting. I liked that the removal of FCs provided that.

I've been super casual since 2.3 because I despise how gameplay changed with the return of FCs: boring lanes, tick quagmires, endless fights, death without consequence, massively consolidated playerbases that only travel in herds, etc..

Rylana

no, it doesn't exist

Smallscale died over a year ago.

What smallscale is today are 4-6 people Xv1 against singles, patting themselves on the back for their 1337 rock humping, and bitching to high heaven on the forums when they bite off a bigger group than they can chew.

It is a rare day indeed when 3-5 people encounter 3-5 people and fight. Usually it just turns into some kinda sick perversion of the benny hill theme song where they all run around ledges and rocks and dont even actually hit each other because they are all rolly stam builds that cant.

Derra

Yes, small scale is common

Rylana wrote: »

It is a rare day indeed when 3-5 people encounter 3-5 people and fight. Usually it just...

Usually when we find even numbers or ppl only outnumber us 1.5 : 1 they run. Peoples unwillingness to actually fight is unbelieveable at times.

Satiar wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Hardly, smallscale was very very common for the first 6 months of the game. The original removal of FCs is what first began destroying it and pushing everyone to the zerg meta.

My grp and i had the best smallscale after the removal of forward camps because people actually used their horse to travel somewhere then...
With forward camps they mostly bloodgated (who still knows that expression) in a resource to spawn somewhere at a camp where we´d never see them again (that might have been an US EU difference though).

Our small man thrived during the forward camp era. We either took out forward camps or stood in the supply lines between keeps. The fact was that while the majority of guild groups could use Forward Camps, most pugs would end up having to ride back. A good 2-5 man like ours could completely separate a guild from pug reinforcements, isolating them from back up. You could also cause a lot of disruption to guild groups by picking off the healers in the back lines on their way to objectives. Eventually there ended up being a whole lil PvP ecosystem there, where various small man groups would compete for the AP between Sej/BRK/Alessia, Nickel/Roe/Ash, Bleakers/Chal/Aleswell. It's how VE ended up running into the Murdo group, the Quietus group, Mostly Harmless, etc.

After camps were removed people feared death a lot more. On PC NA we began to see groups that had traveled in 3s, 5s or 10s start moving in 20+ to get from point A to point B. They also knew you couldn't just camp up if you died, so it would not be unusual for Teargrants and I to be chased for miles by 30 people. The rest of our group was DKs and Templars and you know how that story goes for mobility.

TLDR: the first removal of forward camps made it difficult to small man the way we used to, and almost all the groups based around it on PC NA died soon afterwards. It's not a coincidence that almost all the remaining small man groups afterwards were eithe Permastealth NBs or Sorcs. The game simply became unfriendly to that kind of play, finding fun fights was nearly impossible.

Interesting. I still remember smallscale/solo (mostly solo admittedly) to be only permablockers i could not kill before reinforcements arrived.

For EU it was supercommon for camps to be placed for pugtravel. Placing a backup camp for your grp on the other hand was near impossible because as soon as you´d pop the camp 20 ppl would spawn there defeating the entire purpose of your attempt to smallscale.

susmitds

Yes, small scale is common

Well as a ganker, I often counter gank other gankers. Counts as small scale enough.

KenaPKK

Yes, small scale is common

Some of us try to keep small scale alive. With balance changes favoring greater numbers for so many patches, though, group sizes seem to be growing over time, and pugs and new players seem to cling onto each other more than ever.

@Derra makes a good point. Larger groups turn and run or try to kite surprisingly often. Shameful, but it's hard to blame them if they are new players lacking PvP confidence.

@Rylana y u so cynical? Wouldn't those be pugs behaving like that, not respectable small scalers?

@susmitds mmmmm memories. I spent a lot of 1.6 running around counterganking on my mageblade. It was my way of practicing what I learned in duels and group in an uncontrolled environment. In fact, that is where the PKK in my name comes from. RIP old Radiant Magelight.. That skill turned a mageblade into a straight hunter!

Erynyes

always small scale, never run with more than 6, fighting outnumbered is what i like the most, although it's getting harder to find other small scale group to have a good fight with these day

Dying breed...