Costume Dying Should Be Free! (RANT)

MrAppleman

They have every right to charge for cosmetics.
Who the hell will leave the game because costume dyes cost crowns?
I think some of you are overreacting.
This has nothing to do with actual gameplay.

Why are you opposed to subscribers getting perks?? Up until recently the dlc and extra exp was all we got. Now they are throwing in some cool perks and everyone loses their minds.
Would you rather those who sub not get anything?
Or let me guess everything free for all and no subs?
How the hell could a game like this function without a consistent flow of income?

Why don't you just pay $15 for one month and dye your crap and then unsubscribe and keep your crowns?

People pay stupid amounts of money on these extras who barely play the game. If this is how they make their money that's fine by me.

Transairion

People that makes these arguments are the reason I wish it was a sub only game. Don't want to support the game? Don;t play it.

Any ESO player is/has supported the game, because ESO isn't free so they paid for it. Which a lot of ESO+ elitists seem to forget somehow, ESO isn't free to play.

Uh nit really cause the stamps use all the dyes including ones you the player have not unlocked. So like so and so color but dont have it? Use stamp.

Correct me if I'm wrong but from all PTS reports the Dye Stamps are only picked from the base Dyes (the bottom "tier 1" dyes) which I thought were most, if not ALL unlocked in the Dye System to begin with? So even a fresh level 1 has access to all of them.

You can't get a Dye Stamp with Akatosh Scales Gold, for example, which is part of an achievement.

If it was not such a good perk for ESO+ then threads like this one would not be created.

Zenimax already made up their mind about it, but given the backlash (I've yet to see ANYTHING positive about Dye Stamps, they're that bad) it's more a matter of telling them "they dun goofed" and lost themselves money. I'm sure not paying for Stamps or ESO+ anytime soon, so the feature may as well not exist.

Since I don't use anything but costumes, for me ESO doesn't even have a Dye system lol

idk

If your buying the DLCs and purchasing items from the crown store you should be a sub anyhow.

Either way restricting costume dye to ESO+ seems like a great perk for that. If it was not such a good perk for ESO+ then threads like this one would not be created.

notimetocare

Transairion wrote: »

People that makes these arguments are the reason I wish it was a sub only game. Don't want to support the game? Don;t play it.

Any ESO player is/has supported the game, because ESO isn't free so they paid for it. Which a lot of ESO+ elitists seem to forget somehow, ESO isn't free to play.

Uh nit really cause the stamps use all the dyes including ones you the player have not unlocked. So like so and so color but dont have it? Use stamp.

Correct me if I'm wrong but from all PTS reports the Dye Stamps are only picked from the base Dyes (the bottom "tier 1" dyes) which I thought were most, if not ALL unlocked in the Dye System to begin with? So even a fresh level 1 has access to all of them.

You can't get a Dye Stamp with Akatosh Scales Gold, for example, which is part of an achievement.

If it was not such a good perk for ESO+ then threads like this one would not be created.

Zenimax already made up their mind about it, but given the backlash (I've yet to see ANYTHING positive about Dye Stamps, they're that bad) it's more a matter of telling them "they dun goofed" and lost themselves money. I'm sure not paying for Stamps or ESO+ anytime soon, so the feature may as well not exist.

Since I don't use anything but costumes, for me ESO doesn't even have a Dye system lol

I know you have to buy the game, but that 20$ you paid for the game aint keeping the servers running.

Transairion

I know you have to buy the game, but that 20$ you paid for the game aint keeping the servers running.

Er, no, we didn't all buy the game for bargin basement prices on during a Steam sale after it had been out for literally years.

The $200 AUD I spent on ESO just after launch (PC obviously) can attest to that, and that was only Imperial Edition and some sub (because it was sub only). It wasn't at all cheap and literally did keep the game running... paid for Craglorn didn't it?


But yeah we all know the real money comes from the Crown Store, not ESO+. Otherwise ESO would've never dropped the sub model. Games don't going from sub only to Buy to Play (or Free to Play) out of choice, they do so because subs can't keep the lights on anymore. That should be obvious since after they introduce the Cash Shop they always rave about "how successful the game is" and their crazy profits.

People love cosmetics.

BalticBlues

notimetocare wrote: »

that 20$ you paid for the game aint keeping the servers running.

This is why ZOS should release great DLC at a fair prize,
as Orisinium, for keeping the game and the servers alive,
instead of releasing crippled colors for a crippled dye functionality,
ripping players off, giving the game a bad reputation.

IMHO ZOS could sell far more costumes
if people would be able to dye these for free.
Most non-subscribers won't probably buy
costumes with limited, crippled colors anymore at all...

Moonscythe

Duiwel wrote: »

It is free... for me

(cause I sub)

p.s. your tears are delicious & salty

But, it's not free for you. It comes as part of a bundle that you pay $180 a year for. That's not free and not all of us can justify that expense.

I know my costumes (of which I have but 2 sets) can't be dyed without paying additional real world money on top of the real world money I already paid and I am completely within my rights to be disappointed in the way the new dye system was done. That doesn't make me a crybaby. I might be willing to pay an additional amount to unlock the dyes to which I already have access to include costumes already owned. In future then costumes would have a higher price to include them in the dye system.

As things stand now, I won't buy any costumes again. Between the bad fit, bad style and truly awful starting colors of most of them they hold no attraction at all.

Korah_Eaglecry

If you cant pay for anything. You have no legs to stand on to make demands. Good day SIR!

AlexWars

I am a ESO+ subscriber...however, I can see where you are coming from on this. Surely adjustments can be made so that these new systems can be used with gold. In addition to the crowns purchase and bundled with subscription anyway. Not hating on what the developers are doing..just looking at this from both sides. On one hand, it is something that is NOT crucial. On the other hand, not everyone wants to spend money on crowns or membership for dyes.

Abeille

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Corret me if I am wrong but werent players asking for more to ESO+ ? Like crafting bags and costume dye sure seems like more reasoning for eso+

Yes, okay, all good, no problem here.

But Dye Stamps are still the worst possible way to implement an alternative. It is barely an alternative, really, because it sucks so much.

Uh nit really cause the stamps use all the dyes including ones you the player have not unlocked. So like so and so color but dont have it? Use stamp.

First, no, the stamps do not use all the dyes. They use only the common ones.

Second, if you want to use them for a color you don't have, that's fine, but you won't be picking the slot where that color is going into. No, you can't then go to the Dye Station if you are ESO+ and use its tools to change the slot the colors occupy. I tested this on PTS, it isn't possible.

These are the reasons why Dye Stamps are so awful. Only common dyes and no way to change the order of them.

You opened my eyes to another problem, however. People picking them up completely unaware of how they actually work, and then coming to the forums to complain about how they didn't know they were so awful. Like what happened to the Merchant and Banker assistants.

I would be completely fine if ZOS sold "Costume Dye Station Access" in the Crown Store instead. A consumable that lets you use the Dye Station once for one costume, and it is consumed when you agree to make the changes.

willymchilybily

Moonscythe wrote: »

The arguments are exhausting sometimes. Each side has a point but it all comes down to money and whether you have it to spare.

@moonscythe I disagree. people make out like they have no money it should be free. it should be base game, the topic is costume dyes, most of the costumes in game you buy, the game itself you buy, the dlc you buy.

You cant argue oh i cant afford it if you can afford to make the initial purchase. What they really mean is they dont want to sub or even pay for this privilege. the problem is as i said before

willymchilybily wrote: »

try not to think of it as punishing those that don't subscribe but rewarding those that do.
try not to think of it as paying to get all the features, but gaining extra features for supporting the game

@MrAppleman nailed it

MrAppleman wrote: »

Why don't you just pay $15 for one month and dye your crap and then unsubscribe and keep your crowns?

one month sub for £9.99 ($15) is rewarded 1,500 crowns
buying 1,500 crowns alone costs you £8.99 on PS4 store.

If you want to buy anything, anything at all you could subscribe for 1 month (or more) get the crowns at virtually the same cost and then the extra £1 you pay for that 1 month gets access to craft bags, All DLC, the new costume dye system, 10% increased XP/gold/inspiration gains and 10% reduced research time for traits.

That means a sunk cost of £1 a month, less than 4p a day. The money you would have spent buying the crowns still buys you the crowns. so what ever you were going to buy you still can.

@theher0not i mean no offence but your grasp of money and business seems juvenile

theher0not wrote: »

Do like me. Don't spend a single dime on ANYTHING in this game. Since ZoS obviously doesn't care about the players why should we support them?

Running a server costs both in terms of power consumption, and man hours for maintenance and updates. If the game run costs exceed the income they'll pull the plug. You don't have to pay for anything, but some one does, else the game stops. your post and attitude is the exact reason ZOS has to push for subs, and the reason these dyes should be eso + only. another string to the eso+ bow.

theher0not wrote: »

Also to the players saying "get ESO+" you are part of the problem. People like you are the reason companies like EA and now ZoS makes everything about milking the players on all their money.

This is the worst part of your statement. ZOS gives you free crowns when you sub. if anything subscribers can buy what ever they like with those free crowns. Those getting milked are the ones that don't sub but will still pay 5,000 crowns for a mount.

rhapsodious

Abeille wrote: »

You opened my eyes to another problem, however. People picking them up completely unaware of how they actually work, and then coming to the forums to complain about how they didn't know they were so awful. Like what happened to the Merchant and Banker assistants.

That's my issue with them. I feel like they'll be selling to people who don't know any better. They do give you a utility that's otherwise impossible to obtain as a non-sub, but they're so gimped that if you really want to dye your costume, you're much better off just buying a month of ESO+ and getting all your dyeing out of the way. I just... really don't see these selling to anyone except those who frigging hate questing but want a dyed costume (since most of the common/uncommon dyes come from questing) or ignorant people. Speaking as a sub.

I guess to Zeni's benefit it probably cost nearly nothing to come up with the dye stamps and they're at least cheap. Make the base image with translucency over the dye swatches, slap the color layer under the base image, give the bundle a name, fill in the description template with the dyes included. But if you want to dye your costume the only way to do it right is with a sub. I think it would be less upsetting to people if dye stamps didn't exist.

Cinnamon_Spider

If you don't want to pay for dying a costume, then don't. It does not affect your game one bit either way.

Ep1kMalware

theher0not wrote: »

Do like me. Don't spend a single dime on ANYTHING in this game. Since ZoS obviously doesn't care about the players why should we support them?

Also to the players saying "get ESO+" you are part of the problem. People like you are the reason companies like EA and now ZoS makes everything about milking the players on all their money.

did you recently suffere sever head trauma or are you functionally oblivious to how society in general works?

if people don't buy costumes and eso+, there wilk be NO ESO. Is that too complicated for you? Do you know how zos gets us vvardenfel and playerhousing? people buy costumes, that gives zos money to afford labor/utilities. seriously wtf?

the way games lijr this are susposrd to work is you pay EVERY month or NO ESO. I honestly fail to understand how anyone could possibly be this intellectually malnurished. Go read something educational tfs. I suggest something business related.

NewBlacksmurf

It's rediculous but so is the crown store entirely where there are no in-game options for many crown store features.....

notimetocare

BalticBlues wrote: »

notimetocare wrote: »

that 20$ you paid for the game aint keeping the servers running.

This is why ZOS should release great DLC at a fair prize,
as Orisinium, for keeping the game and the servers alive,
instead of releasing crippled colors for a crippled dye functionality,
ripping players off, giving the game a bad reputation.

IMHO ZOS could sell far more costumes
if people would be able to dye these for free.
Most non-subscribers won't probably buy
costumes with limited, crippled colors anymore at all...

Except they have already been buying costumes...

idk

BalticBlues wrote: »

notimetocare wrote: »

that 20$ you paid for the game aint keeping the servers running.

This is why ZOS should release great DLC at a fair prize,
as Orisinium, for keeping the game and the servers alive,
instead of releasing crippled colors for a crippled dye functionality,
ripping players off, giving the game a bad reputation.

IMHO ZOS could sell far more costumes
if people would be able to dye these for free.
Most non-subscribers won't probably buy
costumes with limited, crippled colors anymore at all...

Because someone cannot dye their costume it is ripping off players? IMHO this is a little melodramatic especially since it is so small compared to the crafting bag we get.

One thing that non subscribers need/should understand, is that Zos has every right to encourage subscriptions, especially since it brings in more revenue than just buying DLCs and at that, not every non-sub buys all the DLCs. Costume dyeing is a perfect addition to the ESO+ perks.

Transairion

One thing that non subscribers need/should understand, is that Zos has every right to encourage subscriptions, especially since it brings in more revenue than just buying DLCs and at that, not every non-sub buys all the DLCs. Costume dyeing is a perfect addition to the ESO+ perks.

Oh sure, encouraging subbing is fine.

Making small QoL life changes and putting them behind a paywall and offering a terrible, terrible Crown Store "alternative" is just making a quick buck and nothing to be praised for. And again, the chance that majority of ESO's profits come from ESO+ subs is basically zero... Crown Store is where it all comes from since any player can use it.

I don't see how having it be free for the handful of free costumes, and having to buy paid costumes anyway for anything new to Dye somehow would've lost them huge profits, since it'd be far more accessible a feature.

f people don't buy costumes and eso+, there wilk be NO ESO. Is that too complicated for you? Do you know how zos gets us vvardenfel and playerhousing? people buy costumes, that gives zos money to afford labor/utilities. seriously wtf?

This is hilariously bad "logic" given ESO isn't Free to Play, ergo, every single player pays Zenimax at least once in their lives. It's perfectly within someone's right to NOT dump MORE money into the game after the initial purchase. You can buy Overwatch without the expectation to buy several hundred Lootcrates attached, so why expect someone to buy ESO and then have to buy cosmetics or DLC if they don't want to?

But yeah, if you wanna kid yourself into thinking say 5 million ESO players are all ESO+ members (when it'd be more like 1 million subs VS 4 million non subs) go ahead. Whatever helps you sleep at night. If "ESO+" was such a success, the sub requirement for playing would've never been dropped to begin with and there would be no cash shop. There there is a cash shop implies significantly more of the game's costs are covered by that instead, as is the case for every game with a cash shop.

AmberLaTerra

Transairion wrote: »

People that makes these arguments are the reason I wish it was a sub only game. Don't want to support the game? Don;t play it.

Any ESO player is/has supported the game, because ESO isn't free so they paid for it. Which a lot of ESO+ elitists seem to forget somehow, ESO isn't free to play.

If it was not such a good perk for ESO+ then threads like this one would not be created.

Zenimax already made up their mind about it, but given the backlash (I've yet to see ANYTHING positive about Dye Stamps, they're that bad) it's more a matter of telling them "they dun goofed" and lost themselves money. I'm sure not paying for Stamps or ESO+ anytime soon, so the feature may as well not exist.

Since I don't use anything but costumes, for me ESO doesn't even have a Dye system lol

1. Yes the bought the game ESO is Buy to play and they are able to play it all they want without crafting bags or dyes, or other ESO+ perks. Those perks in no way make it so they cannot play the game. However a B2P only system would not cover server costs and would leave us all with no game to play in short time without ESO+ so there buying the game entitles them to Absolutely nothing other then being able to play. No free bags, no free upgrades, no free DLCs (or future free future DLCs for those who get the upcoming bundle).

2. Once again you get only what you pay for. The so called "Backlash" about this is only from players who want everything in the game to be free and do not have the vision to see that would mean there would be no game.

It is ESO+ subs that primarily keep the servers up and running. They are the reliable income month after month and not random and at a whim if someone feels like buying crowns for a DLC, Mount, Pet, Costume or anything else. Without that stable income there would be no way to be sure employee salaries and server costs could be paid. What happens if they go no ESO+ next month and crown store sales fall short of covering those costs? they can't not pay employees, so they would chose to not pay for the servers and shut down.

That is what all you B2P non-subs forget. You are getting just what you bought you can play, and your ability to keep playing is subsidized by those of us who have ESO+. Be happy with what you paid for do not constantly rant wanting what we get for enabling you to continue to enjoy what you bought as it is an insult to us and to yourselves.

Ep1kMalware

Transairion wrote: »

One thing that non subscribers need/should understand, is that Zos has every right to encourage subscriptions, especially since it brings in more revenue than just buying DLCs and at that, not every non-sub buys all the DLCs. Costume dyeing is a perfect addition to the ESO+ perks.

Oh sure, encouraging subbing is fine.

Making small QoL life changes and putting them behind a paywall and offering a terrible, terrible Crown Store "alternative" is just making a quick buck and nothing to be praised for. And again, the chance that majority of ESO's profits come from ESO+ subs is basically zero... Crown Store is where it all comes from since any player can use it.

I don't see how having it be free for the handful of free costumes, and having to buy paid costumes anyway for anything new to Dye somehow would've lost them huge profits, since it'd be far more accessible a feature.

f people don't buy costumes and eso+, there wilk be NO ESO. Is that too complicated for you? Do you know how zos gets us vvardenfel and playerhousing? people buy costumes, that gives zos money to afford labor/utilities. seriously wtf?

This is hilariously bad "logic" given ESO isn't Free to Play, ergo, every single player pays Zenimax at least once in their lives. It's perfectly within someone's right to NOT dump MORE money into the game after the initial purchase. You can buy Overwatch without the expectation to buy several hundred Lootcrates attached, so why expect someone to buy ESO and then have to buy cosmetics or DLC if they don't want to?

But yeah, if you wanna kid yourself into thinking say 5 million ESO players are all ESO+ members (when it'd be more like 1 million subs VS 4 million non subs) go ahead. Whatever helps you sleep at night. If "ESO+" was such a success, the sub requirement for playing would've never been dropped to begin with and there would be no cash shop. There there is a cash shop implies significantly more of the game's costs are covered by that instead, as is the case for every game with a cash shop.

so it's hilariously bad logic that in order for a company to not only initially release a worldwide multinational mmo on 3 different platfor,s it needs to keep selling some form of product in order to pay for itself? ok...

Also, your logic of 'this item is superior behind a higher paywall, than this lesser item also behinf a lesser paywall is a clear scam and rip off' is NOT hilariouslt bad logic?

Are you being stupid on purpose? I don't gst it.. perhaps you need to have your chromasomes counted.

AmberLaTerra

Transairion wrote: »

One thing that non subscribers need/should understand, is that Zos has every right to encourage subscriptions, especially since it brings in more revenue than just buying DLCs and at that, not every non-sub buys all the DLCs. Costume dyeing is a perfect addition to the ESO+ perks.

Oh sure, encouraging subbing is fine.

Making small QoL life changes and putting them behind a paywall and offering a terrible, terrible Crown Store "alternative" is just making a quick buck and nothing to be praised for. And again, the chance that majority of ESO's profits come from ESO+ subs is basically zero... Crown Store is where it all comes from since any player can use it.

I don't see how having it be free for the handful of free costumes, and having to buy paid costumes anyway for anything new to Dye somehow would've lost them huge profits, since it'd be far more accessible a feature.

f people don't buy costumes and eso+, there wilk be NO ESO. Is that too complicated for you? Do you know how zos gets us vvardenfel and playerhousing? people buy costumes, that gives zos money to afford labor/utilities. seriously wtf?

This is hilariously bad "logic" given ESO isn't Free to Play, ergo, every single player pays Zenimax at least once in their lives. It's perfectly within someone's right to NOT dump MORE money into the game after the initial purchase. You can buy Overwatch without the expectation to buy several hundred Lootcrates attached, so why expect someone to buy ESO and then have to buy cosmetics or DLC if they don't want to?

But yeah, if you wanna kid yourself into thinking say 5 million ESO players are all ESO+ members (when it'd be more like 1 million subs VS 4 million non subs) go ahead. Whatever helps you sleep at night. If "ESO+" was such a success, the sub requirement for playing would've never been dropped to begin with and there would be no cash shop. There there is a cash shop implies significantly more of the game's costs are covered by that instead, as is the case for every game with a cash shop.

Actually it is very simple to know that they make more annual revenue from Subs then from crown sales and game sales. It is a little thing called a Fiscal Report, all publicly traded companies have to file by federal law so investors can do proper research into their finances to see if they wish to invest into that company or not.

While it takes some digging to find a site that will allow you to see this fact for free and not charge you to see the reports they are indeed out there and numbers do not lie.

BalticBlues

AmberLaTerra wrote: »

That is what all you B2P non-subs forget. You are getting just what you bought you can play, and your ability to keep playing is subsidized by those of us who have ESO+.

Those of you few who have ESO+ were never enough to support the game.
Because of this, ESO had to go B2P to attract the masses.

More important than ESO+ is that poeple buy DLC and Crown stuff.
Therefore, charging for costume dying is bad.
Because it reduces the fun to buy costumes.
Non-subscribers will learn quickly, they have to pay twice:
Pay first for the costume, then pay for limited dying. This won't work.

I already see my daugther who was looking forward
to buy some costumes where she did not like the colors before.
Having to pay again for costume dying, she now says "not interested anymore".
Sorry, but ZOS sometimes seems to have no clue about the customers.

Ep1kMalware

BalticBlues wrote: »

AmberLaTerra wrote: »

That is what all you B2P non-subs forget. You are getting just what you bought you can play, and your ability to keep playing is subsidized by those of us who have ESO+.

Those of you few who have ESO+ were never enough to support the game.
Because of this, ESO had to go B2P to attract the masses.

More important than ESO+ is that poeple buy DLC and Crown stuff.
Therefore, charging for costume dying is bad.
Because it reduces the fun to buy costumes.
Non-subscribers will learn quickly, they have to pay twice:
Pay first for the costume, then pay for limited dying. This won't work.

I already see my daugther who was looking forward
to buy some costumes where she did not like the colors before.
Having to pay again for costume dying, she now says "not interested anymore".
Sorry, but ZOS sometimes seems to have no clue about the customers.

my playstation shouldve been free, that would bw a fun way to entice ,e to buy games!

BalticBlues

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Are you being stupid on purpose?
perhaps you need to have your chromasomes counted.[...]
my playstation shouldve been free, that would bw a fun way to entice ,e to buy games!

Besides of being rude and offensive, you prove one more time
that you have no clue about what we are trying to tell ZOS:

Selling more costumes is more important
than trying to sell crippled colors for a crippled dying system.

Holycannoli

notimetocare wrote: »

I know you have to buy the game, but that 20$ you paid for the game aint keeping the servers running.

I paid a lot more than that, for imperial preorder plus a year's subscription. I have a right to complain about things like this.

Costumes should cost money, dyeing them should not. It's as simple as that. Same with the barbershop. It should not cost real life money to access the character editor screen we used when we first created our characters.

Ep1kMalware

BalticBlues wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Are you being stupid on purpose?
perhaps you need to have your chromasomes counted.[...]
my playstation shouldve been free, that would bw a fun way to entice ,e to buy games!

Besides of being rude and offensive, you prove one more time
that you have no clue about what we are trying to tell ZOS:

Selling more costumes is more important
than trying to sell crippled colors for a crippled dying system.

wrong again, you can just change tour point. maybe other people are trying to tell zos that. But you, however are just demanding free *** and flaming others who provide a constructive couter arguement from a business standpoint.

I'm done and over listening to your flamebaiter babble, but I'm not abov4 saying there's something not quite connecting for you upstairs.

..as demonstrated by your own speach, which you defend with commentw of others made AGAINST you. I've already commented on better altwrnatives to their meta foe dying costumes in this thread, ages ago. you s=chose to ignore that and instead argued with mindless nonsense.

get some sleep lol, your thinker needs a break.

Francis_Toliver

petraeus1 wrote: »

Edit:
I thought about your movietheater analogy, and I propose an adjustment.

I bought tickets to a movie. Not the best seating tickets, those are reserved for club members, but hey, tickets for a movie. During the break I go out to buy some popcorn. Turns out they don't have any salt or sugar, but they'll get some later. I should come back during the second break.

So I do. I already bought the popcorn 'as is', but when I return the employees at the counter say I have to pay extra for the sugar or salt. I also have to pay extra if I want ice cubes with my drink. I can't return my ticket cause I've already seen half of the movie, in fact I'd have to return multiple tickets because I also purchased access to its sequals.

Other customers berate me: the popcorn didn't come with salt at first, did it? The drink said nothing about ice cubes. It's only a matter of flavour anyway. The ticket doesn't mean anything, be glad they even let you have a seat and decided to sell food during the breaks! They got to make money. Don't be cheap. You should become a club member, they say: you get all the benefits then!

The problem with your analogy is that ZOS never suggested you would be able to dye your costumes. It was never an "expectation" that later we would get to dye our costumes for free or otherwise. YOU may have had that expectation, but ZOS never stated this. I certainly never expected it. You may have hoped for it, but to expect it? And be upset that it didn't happen as you assumed it would? What do they say about assumptions?

So, no you are not being denied salt and butter on your popcorn. You are being told caramel corn is now available and you may purchase some if you like. Or you may join the cool club members and it will be offered as a perk for that membership. Or you may continue to eat your normal popcorn with salt and butter.

Or you may continue to complain about the fact that the cool club members are getting free caramel corn and how unjust that is. I doubt that will get you free caramel corn. Or anyone's sympathy.

AmberLaTerra

Since so few in this thread supporting the OP seem to lack a real understanding of how economics work in the real world let me try to explain it this way.

B2P is a cover charge, it gets you into the club. You want your drinks you still have to buy them. Not expect those of us who sub to buy them for you.

Edit: Typo fixed.

bedlom

There's always these same ol rant threads everytime subscribers get anything!
Seriously are you surprised? Subscribers deserve all the perks they get and then some.

Transairion

1. Yes the bought the game ESO is Buy to play and they are able to play it all they want without crafting bags or dyes, or other ESO+ perks. Those perks in no way make it so they cannot play the game. However a B2P only system would not cover server costs and would leave us all with no game to play in short time without ESO+ so there buying the game entitles them to Absolutely nothing other then being able to play. No free bags, no free upgrades, no free DLCs (or future free future DLCs for those who get the upcoming bundle).

I guess the other hundreds, thousands if not MILLIONS of buy to play games out there in the world must all be doing it wrong if they can't make money without a subscription, LOL

Last I heard Guild Wars 2, another actual B2P MMO, is still going strong with nothing to support it but cash shop and DLC. Almost all of SWTOR's income is based off their cash shop/RNG Boxes, much to the neglect of the rest of the game.

2. Once again you get only what you pay for. The so called "Backlash" about this is only from players who want everything in the game to be free and do not have the vision to see that would mean there would be no game.

Hardly, even ESO+ members who'll get Costume Dyeing have said on the PTS how bad the Dye Stamps are and they're basically a waste of resources even being implemented. Nobody in their right mind will be buying the Stamps, they'll just sub then unsub OR not use the feature at all.

It is ESO+ subs that primarily keep the servers up and running.

Source? It was "pre-ESO+ subs" that couldn't keep the servers up and running so ESO went Buy to Play (technically "free" if you already owned it and Cash Shop ) after a hilariously short year, not even lasting as long as SWTOR did. SWTOR at launch also had no content after about a month, but survived another year and a half or so before going Free to Play and Cash Shop.

They are the reliable income month after month and not random and at a whim if someone feels like buying crowns for a DLC, Mount, Pet, Costume or anything else. Without that stable income there would be no way to be sure employee salaries and server costs could be paid. What happens if they go no ESO+ next month and crown store sales fall short of covering those costs? they can't not pay employees, so they would chose to not pay for the servers and shut down.

And how do all other games afford to keep their servers running? Mass Effect 3's multiplayer is still going after several years(?) of no new content, it's still online, can still jump in and play. Look at basically any game out there, they don't just suddenly up and shut down because sales aren't as high.

Even so, you severely underestimate how many people use the Cash Shop and the actual prices inside. Isn't 1 months sub = 1500 Crowns? One person buying that Dro'Matha mount is already paying two subs worth of cash directly to Zenimax. That's a mere 3000 Crowns. Zenimax isn't going broke anytime soon my friend, even if the game went 100% Free to Play they'd survive for years on the Cash Shop alone. SWTOR is "surviving" that way right now, given the kind of content it's released in the last year.

And you're basically ignoring the fact most new content is not added to the game for free, it's put into DLC Packs which again cost Crowns. Maybe if we were getting free content ala Craglorn, you might have a point, but that's not the case. New content = Paid DLC, the only truly "free for all" stuff is the expected bug fixes and occasional Quality of Life changes.

IMO Costume Dyeing is just a part of the initial Dye system and shouldn't be separated from it; I was really happy with ZOS for such a good QoL change until I found out I'd be expected to fork over cash for it.

That is what all you B2P non-subs forget. You are getting just what you bought you can play, and your ability to keep playing is subsidized by those of us who have ESO+. Be happy with what you paid for do not constantly rant wanting what we get for enabling you to continue to enjoy what you bought as it is an insult to us and to yourselves.

Hardly, I'd wager there's B2P players who spend so much in the Crown Store it makes ESO+ look like a joke in comparison. Crown Store prices aren't exactly what I'd call cheap, yet I know people who've bought most everything... the $15 sub per ESO+ pales compared to one guy spending hundreds of dollars.

Again, if ESO+ was so good, and really did keep the lights on, ESO wouldn't have dropped the sub requirement (since by your logic, that makes the most money) and would've never introduced a Cash Shop. Consoles was just a convenient excuse, especially since you can still be an ESO+ member on consoles anyway!

Actually it is very simple to know that they make more annual revenue from Subs then from crown sales and game sales. It is a little thing called a Fiscal Report, all publicly traded companies have to file by federal law so investors can do proper research into their finances to see if they wish to invest into that company or not.

While it takes some digging to find a site that will allow you to see this fact for free and not charge you to see the reports they are indeed out there and numbers do not lie.

If it's so simple, then please don't keep us all on edge and provide some links for us no? Or even quotes?

Though if it's just a flat "We made 100 million profit this year" it doesn't say much about what came from subs and what came from Crown Store either, I'm not sure ZOS is at liberty to share. Seems like an obvious question for a Q&A right?

so it's hilariously bad logic that in order for a company to not only initially release a worldwide multinational mmo on 3 different platfor,s it needs to keep selling some form of product in order to pay for itself? ok...

Also, your logic of 'this item is superior behind a higher paywall, than this lesser item also behinf a lesser paywall is a clear scam and rip off' is NOT hilariouslt bad logic?

Are you being stupid on purpose? I don't gst it.. perhaps you need to have your chromasomes counted.

It's kind of sad you feel you have to insult everyone who disagrees with you, especially since you spend more time thinking up the insults than having discussion. And spellchecking.



But yeah, um, all three platforms have to pay something: Base Game Price + Optional Sub + Optional Cosmetics. You take away Optional Sub, the game doesn't suddenly die. You know like every other game out there, MMO's included. The only reason WoW hasn't gone B2P/F2P is it has a colossal amount of (addicted) subs, so even losing half like they have leaves them with literally millions left.

ESO+ Dyeing VS Non-ESO+ Dyeing isn't even comparable, since you can't use your own dyes and it's just terrible Zenimax-designed preset combinations. Unless you're half blind (no offense to anyone who is), actually paying money for such a shoddy product (Stamps) is a terrible terrible idea. The amount of people I've seen that liked the Stamps or had anything positive to say about them is a big fat 0.

It's like paying $5 for a brand new shirt VS paying $2.50 for a 10 year old falling-apart cloth. Only the most desperate will use the latter, as is the case with Stamps. Unless ZOS changes their minds and allow Stamps to be a one-off "freely dye this" token, instead of "This Dye turns something green/yellow" anyone who buys a Stamp will frankly be a fool. It'll be smarter to just sub, Dye, then unsub immediately.