Making "The Master's" Weapons Great Again

Vaoh

@OdinForge Well we are in a Stamina Meta now. That sword heals for far more than it states.

Hope you're ready for some ridiculously powerful sword/shield stamina builds when Update 11 comes

hedna123b14_ESO

code65536 wrote: »

Well, keep in mind that they are still better than crafted weapons.

The passive component is better than any 1p set bonus. And the active component, if you use the skill that is buffed, is better than any crafted enchantment. And if you don't use the active component, you can override it with a poison and still retain the passive component that is superior to any set bonus.

The overall design goal is that the Master weapons buff the first skill of the weapon line, and Maelstrom weapons buff the second skill. So you won't see any changes in which skill gets buffed. If you want the third skill to be buffed, you'll have to wait for the next type of special weapon.

As for Master-vs-Maelstrom, some Master weapons are very underwhelming compared to Maelstrom (e.g., 2H), and some Maelstrom weapons are very underwhelming compared to Master (e.g., resto and 1HS). And some are situational: Master bow and destros are better in PvP, and Maelstrom bows and restos are better in PvE.

For the most part, the status quo is just fine.

I want a buff to the bow to make my bow/bow blade even stronger:)

OdinForge

@Doncellius Well fortunately there aren't any "threatening" 1H stamina builds left after DB, 2H and DW have much higher damage potential. 1H + medium armor had its height in popularity between 1.7 & 1.9, not to say it's not possible this patch just haven't seen it. The only 1H stamina builds I see anymore use heavy armor and hit like noodles, of course depending on the heal after 50% battle spirit they may get more annoying, malubeth isn't getting fixed any time soon.

Vaoh

@OdinForge They can be very powerful. Just takes the right build. I have a feeling that a few really annoying Stamina builds will be created thanks to that sword tbh.

Not "OP", but very strong. Who knows.... we'll find out within a week or two of that patch going live for sure

IcyDeadPeople

Are the stats on those images correct? Additional 688 damage on Cleave is not even remotely useful unless you are grinding mobs. Maelstrom 2H boosts critical strike / stampede by around 11k+, doesn't it?

Either cleave needs some interesting effect like snare/root, or dmg boost large enough to serve an alternative to spin-to-win. Otherwise perhaps buff some other 2H ability like Reverse Slash or Momentum. Whatever you do please do not buff Uppercut/Dizzying Swing.

Bowser

I'd like a Master Shield that buffs Defensive Posture. Maybe reduce block cost by 20% for 15 seconds after its activated, or restore stamina when it blocks a spell.

GreenSoup2HoT

The Master Dagger needs a huge buff.

Ep1kMalware

zuto40 wrote: »

i think the cleave damage increase isnt good at all really, cleave is a skill no one uses, perhaps a buff to uppercut or momentum of some sort, maybe like an extra 200 each tic for momentum or an extra 2k damage to uppercut

cleave? no. but carve is frackin awesome.

ManDraKE

change the 2h greatsword to sharpened, otherwise is useless.

OrphanHelgen

yea, pretty much agree with all your points.
I still think maelstrom resto are useless.
The master dagger might be better on a burst build or on a stampina templar maybe. Not sure there, how much exactly is the bonus dmg on the twin slash?

For example, maelstrom flurry bonus, can give up to 10k more dps. How much is master dagger increasing dps?

hedna123b14_ESO

ManDraKE wrote: »

change the 2h greatsword to sharpened, otherwise is useless.

As far as I'm aware they all come in every trait.

hedna123b14_ESO

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

yea, pretty much agree with all your points.
I still think maelstrom resto are useless.
The master dagger might be better on a burst build or on a stampina templar maybe. Not sure there, how much exactly is the bonus dmg on the twin slash?

For example, maelstrom flurry bonus, can give up to 10k more dps. How much is master dagger increasing dps?

I haven't tested it, but from a quick assessment it's about a 10% damage buff to rending Slashes from each dagger, so 20% damage buff if using 2. Your contribution to overall damage on a stamplar varies from between 6 and 10%. So the dps buff from them is between 1.8 to 2%. They also offer weapon damage passively, so that is something.

The only class that could benefit from them is indeed a stamplar. The BiS setup with them would be 2 VDSA sharpened daggers, 5 TBS 2 Velidreth and 3 Agility, the only issue with it is that 5 VO>2VDSA daggers+Agility, but it is very hard to procure VO sharpened daggers.

DRXHarbinger

With Maelstrom daggers you should be using Cripple when flurry procs over rending slashes, it becomes a much better DOT when used with rending slashes, a Flurry, Cripple only with this proc then rending slashes is far better than just using the two.

Just a thought.

Ep1kMalware

ManDraKE wrote: »

change the 2h greatsword to sharpened, otherwise is useless.

infused. if I'm using 2h it's not dps I'm after, it's survivability.

hedna123b14_ESO

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

With Maelstrom daggers you should be using Cripple when flurry procs over rending slashes, it becomes a much better DOT when used with rending slashes, a Flurry, Cripple only with this proc then rending slashes is far better than just using the two.

Just a thought.

Cripple on a Stam build hits hard? What?

potirondb16_ESO

Or Actually Master weapon could receive a 1pc bonus and then have an enchant put on it. That way Master weapon stick as relevant even if the ability it boost isn't !

Also, please Zenimax look at the bonus it gives to ressource ! that will be a real pain ! Please make all the bonus about Something else then ressource because if we keep desync our ressource pool at the end it will be the user who will loose.

EDIT || Also ! and I'm talkng as someone with over 100 run of vMA

1. I don't want to feel like some weapon can't be dropped from chest because the RNG doesn't want me to ! I want to be able to receive the weapon I want (if it's after 10 or 20 runs... I don't mind ! if I don't get the traits I want on the weapon ... at the end of all this not yet the biggest issue, if I keep receiving thrash traits (that one will be !), but please create a system that can help us make sure to receive the weapon we want, even buy the gear we wants.

It's so cheap that atm, my friend has over 5 bow with perfect traits, while I only have 2 and none are offensive, also it's not cool that I never got to receive DW weapon that are really offensive while I got over 10 shield and 8 Resto Staff (which I couldn't care less about). You want me to trade-in Maestrom Weapon in order to convert them into points... I don't mind, you want me to run the instance a lot of time in order to be able to buy a bag that will give me a shot at a specific weapon with a random traits.. don't mind either but please try Something.

Maestrom is a solo pain, now if DSA start being a group pain it will be 10 time worst. You guys need to find way to help player gather there weapon quicker and also help them to get the one they want. I am also down for the first completion gift bag where you pick the kind of weapon you want and receive a random traits... Would also help people and encourage them to run it with multiple characther which is nice.

2. Remove the charged traits ! (that traits isn't going to apply to those weapon anyway)

DRXHarbinger

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

With Maelstrom daggers you should be using Cripple when flurry procs over rending slashes, it becomes a much better DOT when used with rending slashes, a Flurry, Cripple only with this proc then rending slashes is far better than just using the two.

Just a thought.

Cripple on a Stam build hits hard? What?

You know flurry grants a massive boost to any single target dot right? The difference it makes to cripple on a stam build is far better than the boost to rending.

Try it. You'll love it. Sounds stupid right but give it a go. Max magic isn't everything.

DRXHarbinger

Also to add. If you're mag build slot DW daggers or axes to proc an even stupidly harder hitting cripple. People in pvp will stand there wondering what you're doing and the dot I kid you not will hit for 9k+ a pop.

hedna123b14_ESO

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

With Maelstrom daggers you should be using Cripple when flurry procs over rending slashes, it becomes a much better DOT when used with rending slashes, a Flurry, Cripple only with this proc then rending slashes is far better than just using the two.

Just a thought.

Cripple on a Stam build hits hard? What?

You know flurry grants a massive boost to any single target dot right? The difference it makes to cripple on a stam build is far better than the boost to rending.

Try it. You'll love it. Sounds stupid right but give it a go. Max magic isn't everything.

Is this for PvE or PvP

DRXHarbinger

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

With Maelstrom daggers you should be using Cripple when flurry procs over rending slashes, it becomes a much better DOT when used with rending slashes, a Flurry, Cripple only with this proc then rending slashes is far better than just using the two.

Just a thought.

Cripple on a Stam build hits hard? What?

You know flurry grants a massive boost to any single target dot right? The difference it makes to cripple on a stam build is far better than the boost to rending.

Try it. You'll love it. Sounds stupid right but give it a go. Max magic isn't everything.

Is this for PvE or PvP

Both. It's just fun in pvp to cloak up behind someone flurry and then cripple them and cloak away and weave them down and watch them not out heal the dot.

hedna123b14_ESO

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

With Maelstrom daggers you should be using Cripple when flurry procs over rending slashes, it becomes a much better DOT when used with rending slashes, a Flurry, Cripple only with this proc then rending slashes is far better than just using the two.

Just a thought.

Cripple on a Stam build hits hard? What?

You know flurry grants a massive boost to any single target dot right? The difference it makes to cripple on a stam build is far better than the boost to rending.

Try it. You'll love it. Sounds stupid right but give it a go. Max magic isn't everything.

Is this for PvE or PvP

Both. It's just fun in pvp to cloak up behind someone flurry and then cripple them and cloak away and weave them down and watch them not out heal the dot.

Hey ran the tests last night, Cripple definitely hits for half of what rending hits....

DRXHarbinger

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

With Maelstrom daggers you should be using Cripple when flurry procs over rending slashes, it becomes a much better DOT when used with rending slashes, a Flurry, Cripple only with this proc then rending slashes is far better than just using the two.

Just a thought.

Cripple on a Stam build hits hard? What?

You know flurry grants a massive boost to any single target dot right? The difference it makes to cripple on a stam build is far better than the boost to rending.

Try it. You'll love it. Sounds stupid right but give it a go. Max magic isn't everything.

Is this for PvE or PvP

Both. It's just fun in pvp to cloak up behind someone flurry and then cripple them and cloak away and weave them down and watch them not out heal the dot.

Hey ran the tests last night, Cripple definitely hits for half of what rending hits....

What have you tested this on?

Dracane

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

With Maelstrom daggers you should be using Cripple when flurry procs over rending slashes, it becomes a much better DOT when used with rending slashes, a Flurry, Cripple only with this proc then rending slashes is far better than just using the two.

Just a thought.

Cripple on a Stam build hits hard? What?

You know flurry grants a massive boost to any single target dot right? The difference it makes to cripple on a stam build is far better than the boost to rending.

Try it. You'll love it. Sounds stupid right but give it a go. Max magic isn't everything.

Is this for PvE or PvP

Both. It's just fun in pvp to cloak up behind someone flurry and then cripple them and cloak away and weave them down and watch them not out heal the dot.

Hey ran the tests last night, Cripple definitely hits for half of what rending hits....

What have you tested this on?

And now imagine a magicka nightblade using the daggers with cripple. THAT'S something

Iggybot

I used the master 2h back in the day. It can be extremely powerful in certain situations with brawler. A spammable Dps skill that refreshes the damage shield and does decent damage is quite powerful. I would use it when we had those ridiculous cyrodiil lag bombs where 50+ people would stack on the flags and spam aoe. Master 2h made you invulnerable even when outnumbered 5to1.

hedna123b14_ESO

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

With Maelstrom daggers you should be using Cripple when flurry procs over rending slashes, it becomes a much better DOT when used with rending slashes, a Flurry, Cripple only with this proc then rending slashes is far better than just using the two.

Just a thought.

Cripple on a Stam build hits hard? What?

You know flurry grants a massive boost to any single target dot right? The difference it makes to cripple on a stam build is far better than the boost to rending.

Try it. You'll love it. Sounds stupid right but give it a go. Max magic isn't everything.

Is this for PvE or PvP

Both. It's just fun in pvp to cloak up behind someone flurry and then cripple them and cloak away and weave them down and watch them not out heal the dot.

Hey ran the tests last night, Cripple definitely hits for half of what rending hits....

What have you tested this on?

? I'm not sure what you mean. If you're implying whether the target had more magical resistance then it's a no. Cripple on a Stam build hits for half as hard as rending...

zerosingularity

Ending the discussion on Cripple Maelstrom Flurry. Cripple gets buffed ALOT, but is still worthless to use as a stam user in PvE. With Rending Slashes (way more dps than buffed Cripple), Poison Injection, and Rearming Trap, there is no room to run Cripple for DPS.

Now, the 2-hander skill Cleave can be used as a single target DoT or a spammable AoE. Kinda both skills wrapped into one. The 2-hander needs to provide a little more love though, not as much as some other weapons though.

Leon119

TotallyNotVos wrote: »

Doncellius wrote: »

@TotallyNotVos
And how exactly would the Master Staff contribute? Why would that be BiS?

Well for sorcerers, their pve build is extremely strict. You need to run force pulse, elemental blockade, frags, liquid lightning, mages wrath and both of your toggles. That leaves one flex slot, currently in that flex slot dw/staff sorcs run boundless storm and staff/staff sorcs run curse. With the new master staff flame clench beats out both of those skills in terms of dps though i guess i would still run boundless for trash pulls. I would like to test it a bit more, but i believe this will be the highest dps magicka sorc setup

Pretty sure bis setup is 5tbs 5/4moondancer 1/2kena depending if u can sustain it well enough and maelstrom

Foxic

Leon119 wrote: »

TotallyNotVos wrote: »

Doncellius wrote: »

@TotallyNotVos
And how exactly would the Master Staff contribute? Why would that be BiS?

Well for sorcerers, their pve build is extremely strict. You need to run force pulse, elemental blockade, frags, liquid lightning, mages wrath and both of your toggles. That leaves one flex slot, currently in that flex slot dw/staff sorcs run boundless storm and staff/staff sorcs run curse. With the new master staff flame clench beats out both of those skills in terms of dps though i guess i would still run boundless for trash pulls. I would like to test it a bit more, but i believe this will be the highest dps magicka sorc setup

Pretty sure bis setup is 5tbs 5/4moondancer 1/2kena depending if u can sustain it well enough and maelstrom

I've seen a lot of people theory craft with moon dancer but I have yet to see any of the top sorcs actually run it or anyone make it work for that matter. It's a set based entirely on rng that depends on you using buggy synergies

ManDraKE

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

change the 2h greatsword to sharpened, otherwise is useless.

infused. if I'm using 2h it's not dps I'm after, it's survivability.

wut? if you are using 2h is because you want to use dizing swings, executioner, rally, crit rush, etc. Do you even pvp bruh? 2h sharpened is a must for most of the DD stamina builds on pvp.

Autolycus

I'm disappointed in the scaling of Master's Weapons tbh. What's the point in bringing back some of the former best weapons in the game if they are still leagues behind Maelstrom weapons?

The only master weapon which will be of any real use is the Master's Resto.

Master's Bow - if you get an infused trait on it, the damage potential is notably higher. However, vMA bow is still far stronger.

Master's Daggers - Very weak increase to the DoT damage of Twin Slashes (regardless of morph; the healing increase for the extra bleed is extremely small) relative to the vMA dual wield weapons. It's a dps loss of 5k+ to use these over vMA dual wield.

Master's Inferno - Destructive Touch is one of the weakest single-target abilities available to casters. This weapon does not make it viable in a single-target rotation. It's uses are limited to pvp, and I am inclined to believe most would agree that there are better options. It is fun to use, so there's that.

Master's Greatword - This one is more complicated, because 2H is currently the least effective pve dps setup. Neither cleave nor crit rush provide any real benefit (or substantial increase to dps either) in a pve setting. Certain bosses allow for the application of crit rush seamlessly in an encounter, such as the Planar Inhibitor, however the upkeep (both in time and stamina) to run crit rush in a dps rotation is a severe loss relative to alternatives, such as Trap Beast. The bleed on cleave is better now than it used to be, but it's not significant enough to pull comparable numbers to other weapon setups. In the end, 2H is still a pvp weapon choice, and as such, vMA weapon takes the cake (because gap closers... need I say more?)

Sword - It takes very little effort to provide a benefit that is more valuable than that of a vMA sword/shield - plain and simple, the vMA 1h&s is useless. As a long-time, endgame tank, who knows many other endgame tanks, I do not know a single one who actively uses heavy attacks in any form of content. The self-heal from puncture is okay... it's not really that beneficial, it's not needed at all, but at least it's practical. I can't imagine these weapons will make a comeback. Not when the Dragon set is being brought back, which is arguably BiS for tanks and can be run with full Tava's and Blood Spawn too.

Master's Resto - This is really the one they've done right. For some time now, healing in ESO has been over-simplified. This is so true that the healer's role has become little more than that of a Bard in traditional rpgs (nothing but buffs). Healing is no longer the real purpose of the role, but that's a different discussion entirely. This is relevant because BiS for healers is extremely lax - the only stipulation is SPC. Beyond that, a healer can run whatever he/she feels best supports their group (not makes them a stronger healer). In a trial setting, if both healers are running this resto, it's comparable to having an additional 1200 stamina recovery for the entire group. There is little, if anything at all, that compares to this level of support right now. Pair SPC and Gossamer with this bad boy, and you're looking at the BiS pve healer setup for the next 3 months.