Can i haz ma execute pleez!

Lokey0024

https://youtu.be/j9OPKN5cQQs

Cherry on top! Ill even buy a race change if you hook it up @Wrobel

tinythinker

I kept waiting for Flame Lash. Not saying it's the best option I just love that free extra hit.

Speaking of...

Lash an enemy with flame, dealing [x] Flame Damage.

If you strike an enemy that is immobilized or stunned, you also set them off balance. You can only set an enemy off balance once every 5 seconds.

Targeting an off balance enemy changes this ability into Power Lash, allowing you to lash an enemy with more intense flame to deal [y] Flame Damage and stun them for 2 seconds. Low health targets take extra damage. You also heal for [z] over 2 seconds.

Lokey0024

Would still use flame lash but heavy attacks hit for 1.5k-4k a tick, dependant on midigation. Would be amazing to have a multiplier on it like molten armernments.

juhasman

Well You dont need execute You need to do something else then just heavy attack spam. You'll not burst most of the decent players with this. Deep breath + meteor+fosilize+lashes spam that's burst. Spamming heavy attack from lightning staff is easy counterable if You dont have any additional dmg on target. You could atleast use burning embers to get DoT supporting dmg and nice heal.
Btw You was also few times on low hp and ward saved You and this dude did not have execute also.

Lokey0024

@juhasman

I had burning embers, burning talons, volitile armor dot, cinder storm, and batswhile heavy attacking.

He could slot an execute. I dont have the option.

And you do know the heavy attack was hitting harder then flamelash, right?

juhasman

@Lokey0024 And You know You can hit 2 flame lashes same time You'll channel half of heavy attack right? And You can make the burst not just chanell 1 thing. You look too much on numbers but true is that's the time is also what matters and fully charged heavy attack from lightning staff takes too much time and dont have any burst combos on mag dk. It's not PvE if You dont have short time burst You'll not kill most of decent players. He could slot execute but he didnt. Burning talons cinder storm and volatile armor doing so small dmg You cant even count them as dmg abbilities. Not mentioning that nb was not tough nb player and he still outplayed You. I dont want to insult You but build You're runing is pretty easy to counter and weak imo. Having execute will not change that. If You would play against decent player he propably would not go under 50% of hp.

Lokey0024

Group build. Needs an execute still. You sound like a nb ganker imo, so yea all the burst single target skills will trump this build no doubt. But

So what other dot could i use on on my dot class? so your saying mdks need a buff, i agree. Only one i didnt use a was burning breath.

And saying its about when you hit, not the actual numbers...... I had all the dots going while lightning torching his a$$ and ward spam to victory.

Ill run meteor when i get it.

Zheg

Most of the times you could have had him if you waited until your bats were up. You'd get him low, CC, heavy attack, and once he'd recover then you'd hit your ult. Sometimes (as you should) you used bats to keep yourself alive and that's fine, but when you had the advantage, you didn't time your ult well. And I'm far from the best 1v1'er.

Waylander

If you ran shooting star you would have had the burst to kill him.

Unfortunately for magica DK they need a burst ultimate as an execute. I think this is a design flaw, as the DK design relies on ultimate for sustain also (so sustain may dictate when you need to pup an ultimate rather than timed burst).

To solve this I would suggest two changes to mDK (that probably wouldn't help your current build):

(1) Flame lash should have an execute built into the power lash on targets below 25% health (increase power lash damage 300%).
(2) Remove the heal over time from flame lash and add that H.O.T. to Green Dragon Blood/Coagulating Blood (h.o.t. scaled on spell power/max magica). Keep the initial 16.5% (after battle spirit) heal to missing health, add the H.O.T. on top. I think they could time the HOT to the heart beat animation and give 3 ticks of 2-3k heals. This would also allow mDK to still have an effective heal outside of execution range.

mDK largely fixed without changing PvE effectiveness too much or buffing stamDK at all.

Lokey0024

@Zheg check mid fight. I hit him with every dot and then bats/heavy attack. Looks like i just need meteor cuz there isnt any finishing power in dk arsenal.

If you hit someone from half health the passives that help at low health ( undeath, templar healing boost etc) dont trigger. With dk they have to use meteor because DBoS isnt an option.

KenaPKK

Waylander wrote: »

If you ran shooting star you would have had the burst to kill him.

Unfortunately for magica DK they need a burst ultimate as an execute. I think this is a design flaw, as the DK design relies on ultimate for sustain also (so sustain may dictate when you need to pup an ultimate rather than timed burst).

To solve this I would suggest two changes to mDK (that probably wouldn't help your current build):

(1) Flame lash should have an execute built into the power lash on targets below 25% health (increase power lash damage 300%).
(2) Remove the heal over time from flame lash and add that H.O.T. to Green Dragon Blood/Coagulating Blood (h.o.t. scaled on spell power/max magica). Keep the initial 16.5% (after battle spirit) heal to missing health, add the H.O.T. on top. I think they could time the HOT to the heart beat animation and give 3 ticks of 2-3k heals. This would also allow mDK to still have an effective heal outside of execution range.

mDK largely fixed without changing PvE effectiveness too much or buffing stamDK at all.

Waiting for these ideas to catch on. Make a post presenting them for discussion.

DisgracefulMind

This was pretty infuriating to watch.

Mostly because of lightning staff heavy attacks.

_Chaos

pro tip: DoT's don't work well in PVP. Thank the 50% battle spirit for that one.
You really need to use meteor+fossilize+power lash(or fire med. attack) if you want a quick heavy burst on an mDK.

Lokey0024

@_Chaos

I think they work fine. Could use a little tweeking to the higher end but all in all they work good if stacked. Been messing with this build and i think im on to something. It isnt a "spam uppercut/suprise attack and smash" set up, its a bit more skillfull and requires timing. Took it to the arena district to try in duels and did real well with it. Just doesnt have finishing power without execute/meteor.

And if you think im kidding, add up the heavy attack dmg.

leepalmer95

Lokey0024 wrote: »

https://youtu.be/j9OPKN5cQQs

Cherry on top! Ill even buy a race change if you hook it up @Wrobel

Why don't you use whip...

Also watch two newbs fight proper triggers me.

Lokey0024

@leepalmer95

Wish you where NA so i could show you.

_Chaos

Lokey0024 wrote: »

@_Chaos

I think they work fine. Could use a little tweeking to the higher end but all in all they work good if stacked. Been messing with this build and i think im on to something. It isnt a "spam uppercut/suprise attack and smash" set up, its a bit more skillfull and requires timing. Took it to the arena district to try in duels and did real well with it. Just doesnt have finishing power without execute/meteor.

And if you think im kidding, add up the heavy attack dmg.

You won't kill any competent player with DoTs.
The video you posted is a shining example of how DoT's don't work in PVP. You don't need an execute, you need to ditch some DoT's for higher burst skills.

Rylana

_Chaos wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

@_Chaos

I think they work fine. Could use a little tweeking to the higher end but all in all they work good if stacked. Been messing with this build and i think im on to something. It isnt a "spam uppercut/suprise attack and smash" set up, its a bit more skillfull and requires timing. Took it to the arena district to try in duels and did real well with it. Just doesnt have finishing power without execute/meteor.

And if you think im kidding, add up the heavy attack dmg.

You won't kill any competent player with DoTs.
The video you posted is a shining example of how DoT's don't work in PVP. You don't need an execute, you need to ditch some DoT's for higher burst skills.

There unfortunately arent any such options in the DK class lines


However, had OP been using an inferno staff, this fight would have changed dramatically. Channeled lightning is mega weak, burst flame + passives = lololol. Whole different ballgame.

_Chaos

Rylana wrote: »

_Chaos wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

@_Chaos

I think they work fine. Could use a little tweeking to the higher end but all in all they work good if stacked. Been messing with this build and i think im on to something. It isnt a "spam uppercut/suprise attack and smash" set up, its a bit more skillfull and requires timing. Took it to the arena district to try in duels and did real well with it. Just doesnt have finishing power without execute/meteor.

And if you think im kidding, add up the heavy attack dmg.

You won't kill any competent player with DoTs.
The video you posted is a shining example of how DoT's don't work in PVP. You don't need an execute, you need to ditch some DoT's for higher burst skills.

There unfortunately arent any such options in the DK class lines


However, had OP been using an inferno staff, this fight would have changed dramatically. Channeled lightning is mega weak, burst flame + passives = lololol. Whole different ballgame.

Agreed re:fire staff.
Inhale and prox are great tools to make up what we lack. Especially used properly in a rotation.
Prox -> Inhale -> Entropy (da *** does he have molten for when running solo) -> Meteor -> Fossilize -> Power Lash. Just after your prox and inhale expire, he's on his ass in a meteor dot and you're mid animation with the power lash proc.

People would have to be ignorant to think that DoT's will kill anyone with ward, let alone make a thread complaining about it.

Yes, DK's need an execute. Absolutely agree with that. But until then people just need to use the proper burst skills required for the meta. Don't try to Engulfing Flame/Lightning HA them to death.

edit: your vs you're. grammar OP

Ghostbane

Dear Zos,

Make Ferocious Leap damage magicka, thus solves the execute. Kthxbai.

Luigi_Vampa

That ward saved your life too. If that guy had slotted an execute and or was better with his burst you would have been dead at the 30 second mark.

Rylana

_Chaos wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

_Chaos wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

@_Chaos

I think they work fine. Could use a little tweeking to the higher end but all in all they work good if stacked. Been messing with this build and i think im on to something. It isnt a "spam uppercut/suprise attack and smash" set up, its a bit more skillfull and requires timing. Took it to the arena district to try in duels and did real well with it. Just doesnt have finishing power without execute/meteor.

And if you think im kidding, add up the heavy attack dmg.

You won't kill any competent player with DoTs.
The video you posted is a shining example of how DoT's don't work in PVP. You don't need an execute, you need to ditch some DoT's for higher burst skills.

There unfortunately arent any such options in the DK class lines


However, had OP been using an inferno staff, this fight would have changed dramatically. Channeled lightning is mega weak, burst flame + passives = lololol. Whole different ballgame.

Agreed re:fire staff.
Inhale and prox are great tools to make up what we lack. Especially used properly in a rotation.
Prox -> Inhale -> Entropy (da *** does he have molten for when running solo) -> Meteor -> Fossilize -> Power Lash. Just after your prox and inhale expire, he's on his ass in a meteor dot and you're mid animation with the power lash proc.

People would have to be ignorant to think that DoT's will kill anyone with ward, let alone make a thread complaining about it.

Yes, DK's need an execute. Absolutely agree with that. But until then people just need to use the proper burst skills required for the meta. Don't try to Engulfing Flame/Lightning HA them to death.

edit: your vs you're. grammar OP

Right we are mostly on the same page here, but like I said RE: class lines, you listed an ability (prox) outside of the class skills lines themselves.

DKS have dots, more dots, and a lackluster single target (lash) to build burst. Its the crappiest setup for a class really, everything else has something built in. Making leap magicka morphable would go a long way sure, but what DK really "needs" in this department isnt so much a straight execute as a single target high damage ability that is not DoT based.

The struggle is real for mDK, at least stam has leap burst, but again we are back to the "needing an ultimate for burst" which has been a DK achilles heel for a long time. Sorcs (curse frag mines), Templars (darkflare topple jabs), Nightblades (ambush SA/conceal) all have class based bursters unrelated to ults. Note this doesnt even include the class executes (fury/radiant/impale respectively) Its fair time to give DK one. Either that or make some of the DoT unpurgeable or shield bypass, because realistically a harness or other ward = mDK has no built in tools.

Embers + Inhale + Lash should do about 15k instant damage out of the box, just like the other classes are capable of. Achieve that, and a lot of the problem goes away. Currently those three skills struggle to break 10k on a good setup with proper penetration, and half of the damage can just be purged off anyway. This then railroads the class into mages guild and destro staff skill lines, which any other class can do equally well if not better.

Making an mDK that is virtually unkillable 1v1, thats easy. Making one that can survive and kill something, thats actually really difficult if not impossible with current class setup.

Lokey0024

Would like molten armernments back. My lightning staff would be radiant destruction. Just take away the AoE component and make it slow the enemy.

leepalmer95

Ghostbane wrote: »

Dear Zos,

Make Ferocious Leap damage magicka, thus solves the execute. Kthxbai.

Ultimates aren't executes.

KenaPKK

Ghostbane wrote: »

Dear Zos,

Make Ferocious Leap damage magicka, thus solves the execute. Kthxbai.

Hey I remember asking for this when physical Dawnbreakers were announced and getting dismissed by a bunch of DKs. ZOS pls.

Ghostbane

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Ghostbane wrote: »

Dear Zos,

Make Ferocious Leap damage magicka, thus solves the execute. Kthxbai.

Ultimates aren't executes.

Worked well as a DK execute from beta to 1.6, but hey, you know the laws right?

KenaPKK wrote: »

Ghostbane wrote: »

Dear Zos,

Make Ferocious Leap damage magicka, thus solves the execute. Kthxbai.

Hey I remember asking for this when physical Dawnbreakers were announced and getting dismissed by a bunch of DKs. ZOS pls.

Stamina users in sheep's clothing.

KenaPKK

Ghostbane wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Ghostbane wrote: »

Dear Zos,

Make Ferocious Leap damage magicka, thus solves the execute. Kthxbai.

Hey I remember asking for this when physical Dawnbreakers were announced and getting dismissed by a bunch of DKs. ZOS pls.

Stamina users in sheep's clothing.

I have been deceived. Magicka DKs are not allowed to have nice things.

Hashtag_

Why you electric staff? You're a DK, use flame staff for more damage.

leepalmer95

Hashtag_ wrote: »

Why you electric staff? You're a DK, use flame staff for more damage.

He's a mag dk in pvp, why is he using a staff in the first place.

Hashtag_

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Hashtag_ wrote: »

Why you electric staff? You're a DK, use flame staff for more damage.

He's a mag dk in pvp, why is he using a staff in the first place.

It's not bad choice honestly except for the electric staff. Flame staff > but I guess you can't get that de-sync with it.

Ishammael

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Ghostbane wrote: »

Dear Zos,

Make Ferocious Leap damage magicka, thus solves the execute. Kthxbai.

Ultimates aren't executes.

Have you seen the Dawnbreaker of Smiting tooltip on a properly geared stam character? Its 30k+, no joke. Damn execute w/o being an execute.