What is the point of writing "688 critical" instead of "3.14% critical" ?

clocksstoppe

I'd like to hear from the developer who thought changing this was good choice.

Tryxus

Bigger numbers are cooler

Reapor

Whats the issue really? lots of games do that.

Molag_Crow

Hmmm good point...

Panth141

It's because it scales with your level

Having CP10 gear that gives '3.14%' would give the same bonus to a CP160 player as it would an appropriately leveled CP10 player. The flat value scales with your level - at higher levels you need a higher flat value to provide the same crit percentage. At least that's my understanding.

clocksstoppe

Reapor wrote: »

Whats the issue really? lots of games do that.

The issue is that 688 is confusing and means nothing when you first glance at it.

Without using the information from this thread's title or knowing the ratio beforehand, I challenge anyone to tell me how much spell critical chance increases when you equip a piece of gear with "7823" critical rating. Pro tip: you can't.

Vercingetorix

I agree that it doesn't make much sense given that effects like "precise" add a flat precentage that a player can easily see. Frankly, I think they should convert those other "spell/weapon critical" values into precentages - it would be easier for the eye to calculate. If I recall, you have to put those numbers over some big number that scales to your level, maxing out at 21,912.

I_killed_Vivec

Tryxus wrote: »

Bigger numbers are cooler

Yes, they explained this when they effectively multiplied everything by 7 (almost two years ago).

Apparently people are happier if they see a big number and also perceive a greater increase if you go from 650 to 800 rather than from 6.5 to 8.

It's all about making what you've got look bigger

Vercingetorix

Tryxus wrote: »

Bigger numbers are cooler

Nah, I'm pretty sure they cause headaches for most people...

xblackroxe

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Reapor wrote: »

Whats the issue really? lots of games do that.

The issue is that 688 is confusing and means nothing when you first glance at it.

Without using the information from this thread's title or knowing the ratio beforehand, I challenge anyone to tell me how much spell critical chance increases when you equip a piece of gear with "7823" critical rating. Pro tip: you can't.

Read the comment above yours. Explains exactly why flat values exist.

Here again if you are lazy:

Panth141 wrote: »

It's because it scales with your level

Having CP10 gear that gives '3.14%' would give the same bonus to a CP160 player as it would an appropriately leveled CP10 player. The flat value scales with your level - at higher levels you need a higher flat value to provide the same crit percentage. At least that's my understanding.

Sunburnt_Penguin

I did think of this a while back along with a reasonable explanation...

Of which I've now forgotten.

Rohamad_Ali

688<

clocksstoppe

Panth141 wrote: »

It's because it scales with your level

Having CP10 gear that gives '3.14%' would give the same bonus to a CP160 player as it would an appropriately leveled CP10 player. The flat value scales with your level - at higher levels you need a higher flat value to provide the same crit percentage. At least that's my understanding.

xblackroxe wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Reapor wrote: »

Whats the issue really? lots of games do that.

The issue is that 688 is confusing and means nothing when you first glance at it.

Without using the information from this thread's title or knowing the ratio beforehand, I challenge anyone to tell me how much spell critical chance increases when you equip a piece of gear with "7823" critical rating. Pro tip: you can't.

Read the comment above yours. Explains exactly why flat values exist.

Here again if you are lazy:

Panth141 wrote: »

It's because it scales with your level

Having CP10 gear that gives '3.14%' would give the same bonus to a CP160 player as it would an appropriately leveled CP10 player. The flat value scales with your level - at higher levels you need a higher flat value to provide the same crit percentage. At least that's my understanding.

And how is this more clear than just having the game calculate whatever the crit % the gear gives and showing it directly?

Zerok

clocksstoppe wrote: »

I'd like to hear from the developer who thought changing this was good choice.

3.1% seems way too low.

When I did my tests, I had 688 critical = 8.1% critical (for a maxed character).

Vercingetorix

Panth141 wrote: »

It's because it scales with your level

Having CP10 gear that gives '3.14%' would give the same bonus to a CP160 player as it would an appropriately leveled CP10 player. The flat value scales with your level - at higher levels you need a higher flat value to provide the same crit percentage. At least that's my understanding.

But if identically traited gear at different levels are providing a scaled, but essentially equal crit value, that only justifies to make critical values "percentages". There's no current tool tip to calculate for the player the resulting precentage - that would help immensely for players that "just want to know" what their crit will be on each piece of gear.

TheDarkShadow

Because if they make it %, then under level gear will be stronger than intended. If you have a CP 10 hunding for example, with flat value, it will increase 3.14% crit, but when you level to CP 160 for example, it only 1% which mean you need to make new gear. And if these gear are in dungeon or pvp then you need to do dungeon, trial, pvp... ect... to farm it, which mean you will have to spend more time and the game last longer.

clocksstoppe

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

Because if they make it %, then under level gear will be stronger than intended. If you have a CP 10 hunding for example, with flat value, it will increase 3.14% crit, but when you level to CP 160 for example, it only 1% which mean you need to make new gear. And if these gear are in dungeon or pvp then you need to do dungeon, trial, pvp... ect... to farm it, which mean you will have to spend more time and the game last longer.

I don't think you understand, nobody cares how it works under the hood, but everyone cares about actually being able to see the crit chance and not some random number that doesn't make sense. I am not suggesting them to change the way it works, but what it shows to you.

kojou

It used to be 4% back in the day when green VR10 Soulshine jewelry was BiS for most magicka builds. Ah, those were the days...

STEVIL

Imo

Expressing things as a percentage gain is unclear. Is it a flat raising of the chance so that +5% to 50% results in 55% or is it applied as a percentage of the current percentage so the above ends in 52.5%?

In ESO that answer varies by element being discussed.

It would be nice if for instance all additives were ecpressed as numbers like crit is now and all multipliers were expressed as percentages. They might be close to that now. Not certain.

Lucius_Aelius

As said by someone else, it's pretty clear that the value changes with level and that's just an easier way for those changes to be represented, and you can still see the percentage on the character screen so I fail to see the issue. Just look at the percentage before and after changing something and you'll know everything you need to know.

Tryxus

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

Nevermind

Yeah

Cuz *** math

clocksstoppe

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

Nevermind.

And I'm totally going to believe you were able to mentally, instantly calculate the result 39.115 of that division with your epic elementary math skills.

Also approximations are garbage, and nowhere does the game even tell you what you to do to get the percentage from that number.

Lucius_Aelius

Tryxus wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

Nevermind

Yeah

Cuz *** math

I didn't realize the guy said you can't figure out the percentage without the ratio already, I knew the ratio and answered before realizing he specifically excluded it (that's what I get for skimming). Doesn't change anything except a slight modification to my response.

kylewwefan

688 Crit is only %3.14? I learn something new every day. Yes, they should change them all to percent. When you look at character sheet it tells you your Crit % in a flat number. It is confusing to know how much % your getting added by gear and set bonuses with some random numbers.

kylewwefan

Zerok wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

I'd like to hear from the developer who thought changing this was good choice.

3.1% seems way too low.

When I did my tests, I had 688 critical = 8.1% critical (for a maxed character).

I like the way your numbers look better so I'll stick with those

Now I can't be sure until @Asayre chimes in.

Lucius_Aelius

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

Nevermind.

And I'm totally going to believe you were able to mentally, instantly calculate the result 39.115 of that division with your epic elementary math skills.

Also approximations are garbage, and nowhere does the game even tell you what you to do to get the percentage from that number.

Try looking at the character sheet maybe? And yeah I skimmed your post and missed the bit about doing the math without the ratio already being known, which obviously makes me using it to answer that question a moot point.

But yes, I used my mad math skills to calculate that in my head, I'm just that good I guess. /Sarcasm

Reorx_Holybeard

I'm unsure why they went with a custom crit rating like this instead of a simply flat percent but it was probably a decision early in the design process and its too late to change it. However, they could easily change the display of all flat crit values into percent. They even have an API function to do that already.

If you were wondering what the exact conversion from flat to percent crit is:

Crit % = FlatCrit * 100  / (EffectiveLevel * (100 + EffectiveLevel) * 2)

where 'EffectiveLevel' is 1-66. This has the effect that a lower level piece of gear will drop in crit rating as you level up which is counter-intuitive. For example, if you make a level 40 Purple piece of Julianos it has 400 Spell Crit. At level 40 this gives you 3.6% crit. At level 50 this gives you 2.7% crit. At CP160 it gives you only 1.8% crit.

If you're on PC you can use the CritPercent addon to display flat crit values as %.

dodgehopper_ESO

Panth141 wrote: »

It's because it scales with your level

Having CP10 gear that gives '3.14%' would give the same bonus to a CP160 player as it would an appropriately leveled CP10 player. The flat value scales with your level - at higher levels you need a higher flat value to provide the same crit percentage. At least that's my understanding.

I wish they would use flat numbers for racial passives, particularly so that the Health/Stamina bonus for instance were the same regardless of whether you were an Imperial Mage, Tank, or Warrior build. This one simple change would make balancing the races a hell of a lot easier for ZoS.

code65536

The reason is probably because the number means different things at different levels. 500 crit rating is a lot more crit for a low-level character than for a high-level one.

So they have two options:

1. Display the actual percent in the item tooltip, but have that tooltip percentage change depending on who is looking at the item and as you level up. A level 30 would see a much higher crit percent than a level 40 when looking at the exact same item.
2. Display an opaque number that is always the same no matter who is looking at it, but obscure the fact that the actual crit percent that corresponds to changes with level by having it reflect only in your final crit chance figures.

Frankly, neither option is good, and there are problems with either way of doing it. I'd personally prefer the first method, but I can understand why they'd want to pick the second.

ZOS_DaryaK

We've removed an inflammatory post and the comments that quoted it.

Rosveen

I have an addon to show crit percentages because I have absolutely no clue what the official numbers mean and I don't play video games to learn formulas and constantly do math in my head.