New DSA Master Weapons

Shadesofkin

Master Destro Staves will never really win out, they're interesting and I could come up with a build or two that utilize that knockback, but at the end of the day the spell damage is more important from the Maelstrom Weapon. I was really hoping they'd adjust the enchantments, but it seems that was a pipe dream.

timidobserver

Flaminir wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »

the Resto staff allows non-Templars to be effective healers as they can give stamina back without the need for shards

250 stamina is nothing. Pointless even. Much more effective way of gaining stamina back in trials for instance is to have one stamplar running repentance only for massive boosts over small single ones. That way the healer stays back and doesn't have to do it and no scrapping over a single shard.

I think the point is perhaps not for trials... there will always be a Templar or two by the law of averages in there to able to gift stamina to the raid in various ways...

I think its particularly good for the classes that have no way of giving stamina to people... EG Sorc healers... this makes them (Somewhat) viable in general 4 man content.

Healing springs can be spammed for days...... and it'll help keep them topped up... something which at the moment they can't do.

You'd give them a couple of k stamina in just a few seconds very easily... that's not pointless at all. & better than whats available now where its Templar or bust for stam return to others.

That doesn't really work. It is the job of the healer to deal with resource management tools. A group shouldn't ask their dps Templar to run repentance. The master restoration staff isn't a new item. When it was first introduced it didn't make non-Templar a viable source of resource recovery for the group and it won't this time either unless they buff it significantly from the figures that are shown in the OP.

Shadesofkin

timidobserver wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »

the Resto staff allows non-Templars to be effective healers as they can give stamina back without the need for shards

250 stamina is nothing. Pointless even. Much more effective way of gaining stamina back in trials for instance is to have one stamplar running repentance only for massive boosts over small single ones. That way the healer stays back and doesn't have to do it and no scrapping over a single shard.

I think the point is perhaps not for trials... there will always be a Templar or two by the law of averages in there to able to gift stamina to the raid in various ways...

I think its particularly good for the classes that have no way of giving stamina to people... EG Sorc healers... this makes them (Somewhat) viable in general 4 man content.

Healing springs can be spammed for days...... and it'll help keep them topped up... something which at the moment they can't do.

You'd give them a couple of k stamina in just a few seconds very easily... that's not pointless at all. & better than whats available now where its Templar or bust for stam return to others.

That doesn't really work. It is the job of the healer to deal with resource management tools. A group shouldn't ask their dps Templar to run repentance. The master restoration staff isn't a new item. When it was first introduced it didn't make non-Templar a viable source of resource recovery for the group and it won't this time either unless they buff it significantly from the figures that are shown in the OP.

Really though, if your tank is running out of stamina, he's not doing a very good job of managing himself and the dps is sort of crappy. He ought to be pressing R the second it's available like a good tank, and getting his stuff back.

timidobserver

Shadesofkin wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »

the Resto staff allows non-Templars to be effective healers as they can give stamina back without the need for shards

250 stamina is nothing. Pointless even. Much more effective way of gaining stamina back in trials for instance is to have one stamplar running repentance only for massive boosts over small single ones. That way the healer stays back and doesn't have to do it and no scrapping over a single shard.

I think the point is perhaps not for trials... there will always be a Templar or two by the law of averages in there to able to gift stamina to the raid in various ways...

I think its particularly good for the classes that have no way of giving stamina to people... EG Sorc healers... this makes them (Somewhat) viable in general 4 man content.

Healing springs can be spammed for days...... and it'll help keep them topped up... something which at the moment they can't do.

You'd give them a couple of k stamina in just a few seconds very easily... that's not pointless at all. & better than whats available now where its Templar or bust for stam return to others.

That doesn't really work. It is the job of the healer to deal with resource management tools. A group shouldn't ask their dps Templar to run repentance. The master restoration staff isn't a new item. When it was first introduced it didn't make non-Templar a viable source of resource recovery for the group and it won't this time either unless they buff it significantly from the figures that are shown in the OP.

Really though, if your tank is running out of stamina, he's not doing a very good job of managing himself and the dps is sort of crappy. He ought to be pressing R the second it's available like a good tank, and getting his stuff back.

Yeh if he has to, but in an ideal setting that kind of thing falls to the healer.

The difficulty of the game has decreased to the point that being able to put out enough heals to keep your group up is a no-brainer. The point of a healer in most endgame content is to buff the group so that they can sustain their resources and do more damage. Actual healing is secondary to that. The best class at buffing the group is the Templar and the minor stamina recovery from the master restoration staff, which Templar can also use, isn't going to change that.

Averya_Teira

Flaminir wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »

the Resto staff allows non-Templars to be effective healers as they can give stamina back without the need for shards

250 stamina is nothing. Pointless even. Much more effective way of gaining stamina back in trials for instance is to have one stamplar running repentance only for massive boosts over small single ones. That way the healer stays back and doesn't have to do it and no scrapping over a single shard.

I think the point is perhaps not for trials... there will always be a Templar or two by the law of averages in there to able to gift stamina to the raid in various ways...

I think its particularly good for the classes that have no way of giving stamina to people... EG Sorc healers... this makes them (Somewhat) viable in general 4 man content.

Healing springs can be spammed for days...... and it'll help keep them topped up... something which at the moment they can't do.

You'd give them a couple of k stamina in just a few seconds very easily... that's not pointless at all. & better than whats available now where its Templar or bust for stam return to others.

Don't forget it's instant stamina for everyone inside the heal.

You have to manually activate the shard and doesn't it only give stamina to one player ?

Deceptive_Yoshi

Assuming that these enchants aren't properly scaled up yet I think that at least the dsa bow, staffs, and the tank sword are pretty good for pvp.

MerkzM8

The bow is godly

SirDopey

Personally I think the balance is about right, vMA weapons should still be slightly superior given that it is content you have to do yourself and can't be carried through.

clocksstoppe

Smasherx74 wrote: »

The resto staff looks really good. That means spamming healing springs would give stamina to group members right?

lmao 250 stamina.

peniku8

The new Master's Bow looks badass, but I don't know if it's actually that good compared to the msa Bow, so lets do some theorycrafting here (PvE):

Given that hail does about 6k dps singletarget with the msa bow, the buff has to be pretty strong, I didn't test it but I'm guessing that it doubles hail's dmg output. 3k dps is roughly 7% more dps overall for decent players, even more with an infused bow.
Now comes the interesting part, the new bow:
Poison injection should be up most of the time so that we can talk about a constant +300WD with that thing equipped.
Thats less than 10% of your usual weapondmg, meaning that it's less than 10% dps gain too, probably dropping it to the same level as the maelstrom bow. Problem is, that you spend most of your time on the DW bar, meaning that you won't even get the buff from the new bow most of the time, whereas the msa buff is applied with the skill itself (I'm just assuming here, didn't test this but I'm quite sure that it works like that, if not call me out please).

In the end, this entire list looks quite disappointing to me, from a PvE point of view. I installed PTS today and might get to play on it tomorrow, got my hopes high for the new scaled trial sets (I don't know them yet, don't spoiler me :P )

Flaminir

timidobserver wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »

the Resto staff allows non-Templars to be effective healers as they can give stamina back without the need for shards

250 stamina is nothing. Pointless even. Much more effective way of gaining stamina back in trials for instance is to have one stamplar running repentance only for massive boosts over small single ones. That way the healer stays back and doesn't have to do it and no scrapping over a single shard.

I think the point is perhaps not for trials... there will always be a Templar or two by the law of averages in there to able to gift stamina to the raid in various ways...

I think its particularly good for the classes that have no way of giving stamina to people... EG Sorc healers... this makes them (Somewhat) viable in general 4 man content.

Healing springs can be spammed for days...... and it'll help keep them topped up... something which at the moment they can't do.

You'd give them a couple of k stamina in just a few seconds very easily... that's not pointless at all. & better than whats available now where its Templar or bust for stam return to others.

That doesn't really work. It is the job of the healer to deal with resource management tools. A group shouldn't ask their dps Templar to run repentance. The master restoration staff isn't a new item. When it was first introduced it didn't make non-Templar a viable source of resource recovery for the group and it won't this time either unless they buff it significantly from the figures that are shown in the OP.

I'm not suggesting a dps templar run repentance... that was the poster above me...

I was just making the point that at the minute its only templars who can give other people stamina... and agreeing with you that its the support/healer role to give resources back... and the master staff is the only way any non-templar can do that.

On that basis I think its a useful item... albeit the stam return (& all the enchants shown at the start of this thread) need a buff from their cp140 values.

Birdovic

SirDopey wrote: »

Personally I think the balance is about right, vMA weapons should still be slightly superior given that it is content you have to do yourself and can't be carried through.

Disagreeing. The master weapons allow for some unique Builds if used correctly, therefore they should be good at what they are intended to do. Which(Good) they arent.

Lets look at the 2h Weapon for comparison:
Master Weapon: Cleave Dmg increased by 688 Dmg. 1000 Stamina while equipped. This Ability is almost never used.

MSA Weapon: Critical Charge deals a heavy hitting dot additional to the guaranteed crit which at the same time is a gap closer, while increasing Weapon Dmg by 196. Just for being a gap closer this ability is usually slotted.


The reason why MSA weapons seem to be better is because they
A ) support already good/often used abilities
B ) are not outdated
C ) The Enchants simply have stronger Effects


The Master Weapon enchants seem to be just as weak/strong as when they were introduced.
Some suggestions for buffs:

Master...

Restoration Staff:
The Stamina return needs to be increased from 250 at first tick to 200 Stam every second. This makes the "Illustrious Healing" Morph more interesting at the same time. The Max Magicka should be increased to about 1500, so its on par with MSA Weapon Spelldmg/Weapondmg increases.

Destruction Staff:
The extra Damage needs to be increased A LOT. I'd go with 2500 additional Damage instead of 500. This big buff is simply because back then we had less Battle Spirit Damage debuff than we have now and its still way more appealing to spam Force Pulse. Additionally the DoT could be increased aswell. The Cost Reduction should stay the same, the Max Magicka again should be increased to about 1500.

Dual Wield:
The Bleed Extra Damage again needs to be increased. Instead of ~250 extra Bleed Damage/tick, this should atleast be at ~500/tick. The Weapon Damage Increase while equipped should stay the same.

Sword/Board:
This one is fine, especially if it keeps CP in mind. Maybe the Health Bonus should also be increased to 1500.

2h Weapons:
The 688 Extra Damage is beyond "useless". This ability is barely in use and a Master Weapon providing this abyssmal Extra Damage wont help with making it interesting again. This should be increased to atleast ~2500. Maybe add (similar to Destro Master Staff) a 10% Cost Reduction? The Weapon Damage Increase while equipped should stay the same.

Bow:
The Bow is absolutely great and doesnt need any Changes, except maybe the Stamina bonus to be increased to 1500 just like with Magicka on the rest of the Master Weapons.

SirDopey

Birdovic wrote: »

SirDopey wrote: »

Personally I think the balance is about right, vMA weapons should still be slightly superior given that it is content you have to do yourself and can't be carried through.

Disagreeing. The master weapons allow for some unique Builds if used correctly, therefore they should be good at what they are intended to do. Which(Good) they arent.

Lets look at the 2h Weapon for comparison:
Master Weapon: Cleave Dmg increased by 688 Dmg. 1000 Stamina while equipped. This Ability is almost never used.

MSA Weapon: Critical Charge deals a heavy hitting dot additional to the guaranteed crit which at the same time is a gap closer, while increasing Weapon Dmg by 196. Just for being a gap closer this ability is usually slotted.


The reason why MSA weapons seem to be better is because they
A ) support already good/often used abilities
B ) are not outdated
C ) The Enchants simply have stronger Effects


The Master Weapon enchants seem to be just as weak/strong as when they were introduced.
Some suggestions for buffs:

Master...

Restoration Staff:
The Stamina return needs to be increased from 250 at first tick to 200 Stam every second. This makes the "Illustrious Healing" Morph more interesting at the same time. The Max Magicka should be increased to about 1500, so its on par with MSA Weapon Spelldmg/Weapondmg increases.

Destruction Staff:
The extra Damage needs to be increased A LOT. I'd go with 2500 additional Damage instead of 500. This big buff is simply because back then we had less Battle Spirit Damage debuff than we have now and its still way more appealing to spam Force Pulse. Additionally the DoT could be increased aswell. The Cost Reduction should stay the same, the Max Magicka again should be increased to about 1500.

Dual Wield:
The Bleed Extra Damage again needs to be increased. Instead of ~250 extra Bleed Damage/tick, this should atleast be at ~500/tick. The Weapon Damage Increase while equipped should stay the same.

Sword/Board:
This one is fine, especially if it keeps CP in mind. Maybe the Health Bonus should also be increased to 1500.

2h Weapons:
The 688 Extra Damage is beyond "useless". This ability is barely in use and a Master Weapon providing this abyssmal Extra Damage wont help with making it interesting again. This should be increased to atleast ~2500. Maybe add (similar to Destro Master Staff) a 10% Cost Reduction? The Weapon Damage Increase while equipped should stay the same.

Bow:
The Bow is absolutely great and doesnt need any Changes, except maybe the Stamina bonus to be increased to 1500 just like with Magicka on the rest of the Master Weapons.

I think you're being a little bit greedy with all the increases. Also, cleave isn't as bad as you make out, its excellent on a morkuldin build as it procs the sword

Punn

Poison injection is already stupid good. so lets just give stam builds another huge buff with this bow. this game is honestly a joke when it comes to balancing anything.

me_ming

I really wish my Master's Bow is cp160 now. lol.

Birdovic

I think you're being a little bit greedy with all the increases. Also, cleave isn't as bad as you make out, its excellent on a morkuldin build as it procs the sword

Not greedy, but disappointed if these weapons go live with like half of them not being worth to use
So who cares, im trying to point out the problems with these weapons. Whatever happens, a few buffs need to happen, they need to be desirable.

And for Morkuldin:
It only proc from Light and Heavy attacks
(You most likely got Morkuldin with the 2h Passive, allowing multiple enemies hit per light/heavy attack).
Sadly Morkuldin isnt that great anyway.

@me_ming

Its even great on CP140, because the Enchantment is useful in many different ways

Draxys

Sword and bow are the only useful ones. In a game where even magicka builds average 14k ish stamina, a return of less than 300 from the resto staff is just insulting. Asinine set design.

K4RMA

Master 1h Sword = S&B DK bae

me_ming

@Birdovic Oh yeah? I might try it out. lol. I've never really gotten to use my Master's Weapons then. When I got them, I only have one maxed out toon, and she was a healer templar, the only thing I wanted to get was the Master's Resto, but never have gotten it (such is the story of my life, I want things that's not meant for me. lol). When my bow user was maxed out not so long ago this year, I felt that there were better sets to use, so never really tried or bothered with my Master's Bow (or any of the Master's Weapons I have had).

Birdovic

@me_ming

For the Resto Staff, im still using it on my Mag Sorc even if its just V14, the main benefit being the extra Magicka (dmg too low, Enchant underwhelming).

The Bow is great, imagine you have 300 extra Weapon Damage on a target, just from using Poison Injection ONCE.

me_ming

Birdovic wrote: »

@me_ming

For the Resto Staff, im still using it on my Mag Sorc even if its just V14, the main benefit being the extra Magicka (dmg too low, Enchant underwhelming).

The Bow is great, imagine you have 300 extra Weapon Damage on a target, just from using Poison Injection ONCE.

The resto I wanted to use that for my Templar, tbh. I know the enchant doesn't seem optimal. Back then though, I was running trials more, and I had my Shards on my back bar, and I'm sometimes lazy swappping bars. lol. So I wanted to use that to at least have some form of stam return, the only stamina regen I had on my main bar was repentance and I needed dead bodies for that. lol. But yeah, the Master's Resto I wanted mainly for a petty stam and resource management here and there.

And I see what you mean, with the Master's Bow. tbh, I've never even really looked into the tooltip of the bow until now. lol. I could see that quite good in PvP for sure.

Burning_Talons

No sheild?
*Kills self*

Refuse2GrowUp

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Daggers, two-handed sword and destro staff definitely need a buff.
Resto and one-handed sword are better than ones from vMA tho.

Agree completely; tho you forgot the Bow...which I think is sitting in a pretty good spot atm.

To make the daggers, great sword, and destro viable they really need to add a larger dmg tick similar to MSA weapons, a resource return, a life return, or a combination of these. While I do not know if comparing them to MSA weapons is fair, comparing Master weapons to normal enchants certainly is, and in their current state these three weapons do not measure up.

idk

OP, it depends.

Master sword is much better than MA. I know good tanks that still use the v14 versions.
Master bow will complement any stam build, and will increase the damage of the MA bow, or any stam weapon.
Master resto is great for some fights, especially fights where everyone is stacked. Gives tank and dps stam. I still use my v14 one for some fights.
Master destro staff will be heavily used in PvP as it was before.
Master 2H is certainly better than the odd choice they made for the MA 2H.

At first look it may seem apprentice, but in the hands of someone who sees how they are useful these are welcomed in the CP 160 versions we are about to get.

Ch4mpTW

Besides the Master's: Bow, sword, and restoration staff — I honestly don't see the Master Weapons outperforming or being on the same league as Maelatrom Weapons. Sure they will fit niche builds here and there, and provide some solid support to builds... But, what exactly does that mean compared to weapons that are giving you increased: Spell crit, spell damage, weapon damage, etc.?

Spliffo

Birdovic wrote: »

@me_ming

For the Resto Staff, im still using it on my Mag Sorc even if its just V14, the main benefit being the extra Magicka (dmg too low, Enchant underwhelming).

The Bow is great, imagine you have 300 extra Weapon Damage on a target, just from using Poison Injection ONCE.

Imagine having a weapon damage enchant on a vMA bow and getting 350 weapon damage on every target and still keeping the 180 damage from the maelstrom enchant. It works, vMA bow 4 life.

frownsyndromes

masters bow looks perfect man

Troneon

I hate the styles for both Master and Maelstrom weapons....

Gargath

I use Master Sword V13 with infused trait I found from my first normal DSA, with my stamina dps dragonknight, 1hand and shield and dual wield. This sword for self healing if things gets ugly when using dual wield - my main weapons.

Also my DK tank based on health/health regen uses this sword, since it makes punctures almost all the time .
I love this weapon .

Stardark

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »

the Resto staff allows non-Templars to be effective healers as they can give stamina back without the need for shards

250 stamina is nothing. Pointless even. Much more effective way of gaining stamina back in trials for instance is to have one stamplar running repentance only for massive boosts over small single ones. That way the healer stays back and doesn't have to do it and no scrapping over a single shard.

The actual heal on Healing Springs is nothing to write home about either but the way healers have to spam it that 250 will add up very quickly.