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Concept: Werewolf Ultimate Count as the Timer

UltimaJoe777
UltimaJoe777
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Ok so here's what I think: Why not remove the existing timer when transformed and instead replace it with your Ultimate count? Basically when you transform your Ultimate starts depleting while transformed and the usual means of keeping your WW timer filled go towards Ultimate instead. Naturally Light and Heavy Attacks would still not grant Ultimate while transformed but forcing your transformation to end would serve to preserve your Ultimate for later use (like with Overload).

Thoughts?
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  • ZakuBeta
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    I like the ide of using the ultimate as a timer. It is not uncommon for me to have far more ultimate available than what is required, and I lose all of it when I go WW. I have always felt the timer for WW was to short, and the having to feed being a bit of a handicap. Especially when compared to a vampire who gets all the class skills, plus vampire bonuses, and has to do absolutely nothing to maintain it's abilities.

    Yes, the WW has more power than the vamp, but the WW has to work to keep it going and the vamp does not.
  • UltimaJoe777
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    ZakuBeta wrote: »
    I like the ide of using the ultimate as a timer. It is not uncommon for me to have far more ultimate available than what is required, and I lose all of it when I go WW. I have always felt the timer for WW was to short, and the having to feed being a bit of a handicap. Especially when compared to a vampire who gets all the class skills, plus vampire bonuses, and has to do absolutely nothing to maintain it's abilities.

    Yes, the WW has more power than the vamp, but the WW has to work to keep it going and the vamp does not.

    Yeah and those who stock up 1000 Ultimate would be able to remain a WW longer. All they have to do is make the timer count down by 3 Ultimate per second. Call of the Pack would reduce that by a % from there. Overall it makes the fact we transform via Ultimate less penalizing.
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  • susmitds
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    What you are basically saying is making werewolf a toggled ultimate.
  • UltimaJoe777
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    susmitds wrote: »
    What you are basically saying is making werewolf a toggled ultimate.

    For the most part, yes. Provided of course you have at least the Ultimate cost. Unlike Overload though the Ultimate depletes constantly while transformed regardless of using it or not.
    Edited by UltimaJoe777 on June 30, 2016 11:59PM
    Guildmaster of Power With Numbers in PS4 NA Server's Aldmeri Dominion.
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  • Glaiceana
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    I like this idea. And having it deplete while in use is great, and will prevent it from being seen as over powered. However, if I stock up on loads of ultimate AND have werewolves in my group and transform as pack leader, I think it really would be permanent werewolf. Personally I'd love that, but I know many people would complain :D
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  • UltimaJoe777
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    Glaiceana wrote: »
    I like this idea. And having it deplete while in use is great, and will prevent it from being seen as over powered. However, if I stock up on loads of ultimate AND have werewolves in my group and transform as pack leader, I think it really would be permanent werewolf. Personally I'd love that, but I know many people would complain :D

    It already is permanent werewolf with the current timer lol timer drains up to 80% slower (20% per Werewolf) and there are many ways to maintain the timer. In comparison the toggle idea would let us preserve our transformation so we don't have to rebuild the 300 Ultimate thus making Werewolves much more desirable.
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  • ZakuBeta
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    Glaiceana wrote: »
    I like this idea. And having it deplete while in use is great, and will prevent it from being seen as over powered. However, if I stock up on loads of ultimate AND have werewolves in my group and transform as pack leader, I think it really would be permanent werewolf. Personally I'd love that, but I know many people would complain :D

    You would be able to stay transformed longer, and not get kicked from a group for slowing them down. You would have less time stuck gorging on dead things. The WW still has several designed weaknesses as well.
  • LBxFinalDeath
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    I'd rather they just made it so everything you do/kill in WW form gives you ultimate for when you transform back into normal form.

    For example: Use the 300 cost WW ultimate, kill 3 or 4 guys if they aren't poison spammers...then end up with like 250 ultimate depending on what you did when you transform back into your normal form.

    Make it so like after you transform your Ult goes back down to 0 instantly that rises as you do things in WW form.

    It'd reward good WW players, right now going WW usually ends up with most people instantly dying so...yeah that spurns people from wanting go WW again due to the large amount of hard counters WW has facing it...and of course the large Ultimate cost.
    Edited by LBxFinalDeath on July 1, 2016 12:43AM
  • TX12001rwb17_ESO
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    ZakuBeta wrote: »
    I like the ide of using the ultimate as a timer. It is not uncommon for me to have far more ultimate available than what is required, and I lose all of it when I go WW. I have always felt the timer for WW was to short, and the having to feed being a bit of a handicap. Especially when compared to a vampire who gets all the class skills, plus vampire bonuses, and has to do absolutely nothing to maintain it's abilities.

    Yes, the WW has more power than the vamp, but the WW has to work to keep it going and the vamp does not.
    "Yes, the WW has more power than the vamp "

    Hahahahahah that joke was funny.

  • ZakuBeta
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    ZakuBeta wrote: »
    I like the ide of using the ultimate as a timer. It is not uncommon for me to have far more ultimate available than what is required, and I lose all of it when I go WW. I have always felt the timer for WW was to short, and the having to feed being a bit of a handicap. Especially when compared to a vampire who gets all the class skills, plus vampire bonuses, and has to do absolutely nothing to maintain it's abilities.

    Yes, the WW has more power than the vamp, but the WW has to work to keep it going and the vamp does not.
    "Yes, the WW has more power than the vamp "

    Hahahahahah that joke was funny.


    You don't think so?
  • Ghettokid
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    I'd rather they just made it so everything you do/kill in WW form gives you ultimate for when you transform back into normal form.

    For example: Use the 300 cost WW ultimate, kill 3 or 4 guys if they aren't poison spammers...then end up with like 250 ultimate depending on what you did when you transform back into your normal form.

    Make it so like after you transform your Ult goes back down to 0 instantly that rises as you do things in WW form.

    It'd reward good WW players, right now going WW usually ends up with most people instantly dying so...yeah that spurns people from wanting go WW again due to the large amount of hard counters WW has facing it...and of course the large Ultimate cost.

    Isn't it 400 ultimate?

  • LBxFinalDeath
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    @Ghettokid Ah yeah, the default morph and I think berserker is 400..the Pack Leader is 300, my bad.
  • UltimaJoe777
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    Ghettokid wrote: »
    I'd rather they just made it so everything you do/kill in WW form gives you ultimate for when you transform back into normal form.

    For example: Use the 300 cost WW ultimate, kill 3 or 4 guys if they aren't poison spammers...then end up with like 250 ultimate depending on what you did when you transform back into your normal form.

    Make it so like after you transform your Ult goes back down to 0 instantly that rises as you do things in WW form.

    It'd reward good WW players, right now going WW usually ends up with most people instantly dying so...yeah that spurns people from wanting go WW again due to the large amount of hard counters WW has facing it...and of course the large Ultimate cost.

    Isn't it 400 ultimate?

    It drops as it ranks up.
    Guildmaster of Power With Numbers in PS4 NA Server's Aldmeri Dominion.
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  • UltimaJoe777
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    Oh yeah, another reason this would be more beneficial is loading screens. When you change zones your transformation automatically ends. This concept would help werewolves maintain their transformation when changing zones, especially when simply entering or exiting a delve or dungeon.
    Guildmaster of Power With Numbers in PS4 NA Server's Aldmeri Dominion.
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  • Ghettokid
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    Ghettokid wrote: »
    I'd rather they just made it so everything you do/kill in WW form gives you ultimate for when you transform back into normal form.

    For example: Use the 300 cost WW ultimate, kill 3 or 4 guys if they aren't poison spammers...then end up with like 250 ultimate depending on what you did when you transform back into your normal form.

    Make it so like after you transform your Ult goes back down to 0 instantly that rises as you do things in WW form.

    It'd reward good WW players, right now going WW usually ends up with most people instantly dying so...yeah that spurns people from wanting go WW again due to the large amount of hard counters WW has facing it...and of course the large Ultimate cost.

    Isn't it 400 ultimate?

    It drops as it ranks up.

    So when my WW berserker reach final rank it will drop from 400 to 300? Im berserker rank III now.
  • UltimaJoe777
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    Ghettokid wrote: »
    Ghettokid wrote: »
    I'd rather they just made it so everything you do/kill in WW form gives you ultimate for when you transform back into normal form.

    For example: Use the 300 cost WW ultimate, kill 3 or 4 guys if they aren't poison spammers...then end up with like 250 ultimate depending on what you did when you transform back into your normal form.

    Make it so like after you transform your Ult goes back down to 0 instantly that rises as you do things in WW form.

    It'd reward good WW players, right now going WW usually ends up with most people instantly dying so...yeah that spurns people from wanting go WW again due to the large amount of hard counters WW has facing it...and of course the large Ultimate cost.

    Isn't it 400 ultimate?

    It drops as it ranks up.

    So when my WW berserker reach final rank it will drop from 400 to 300? Im berserker rank III now.

    It should be 300 already. My WW Berserker is Rank 2 and costs 300 Ultimate.
    Guildmaster of Power With Numbers in PS4 NA Server's Aldmeri Dominion.
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  • Ghettokid
    Ghettokid
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    Ghettokid wrote: »
    Ghettokid wrote: »
    I'd rather they just made it so everything you do/kill in WW form gives you ultimate for when you transform back into normal form.

    For example: Use the 300 cost WW ultimate, kill 3 or 4 guys if they aren't poison spammers...then end up with like 250 ultimate depending on what you did when you transform back into your normal form.

    Make it so like after you transform your Ult goes back down to 0 instantly that rises as you do things in WW form.

    It'd reward good WW players, right now going WW usually ends up with most people instantly dying so...yeah that spurns people from wanting go WW again due to the large amount of hard counters WW has facing it...and of course the large Ultimate cost.

    Isn't it 400 ultimate?

    It drops as it ranks up.

    So when my WW berserker reach final rank it will drop from 400 to 300? Im berserker rank III now.

    It should be 300 already. My WW Berserker is Rank 2 and costs 300 Ultimate.
    Really? Mine is still at full cost (384 cause templars reduce ulti cost)

    Maybe I should send ticket to zos
  • UltimaJoe777
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    Ghettokid wrote: »
    Ghettokid wrote: »
    Ghettokid wrote: »
    I'd rather they just made it so everything you do/kill in WW form gives you ultimate for when you transform back into normal form.

    For example: Use the 300 cost WW ultimate, kill 3 or 4 guys if they aren't poison spammers...then end up with like 250 ultimate depending on what you did when you transform back into your normal form.

    Make it so like after you transform your Ult goes back down to 0 instantly that rises as you do things in WW form.

    It'd reward good WW players, right now going WW usually ends up with most people instantly dying so...yeah that spurns people from wanting go WW again due to the large amount of hard counters WW has facing it...and of course the large Ultimate cost.

    Isn't it 400 ultimate?

    It drops as it ranks up.

    So when my WW berserker reach final rank it will drop from 400 to 300? Im berserker rank III now.

    It should be 300 already. My WW Berserker is Rank 2 and costs 300 Ultimate.
    Really? Mine is still at full cost (384 cause templars reduce ulti cost)

    Maybe I should send ticket to zos

    Probably just another Rank 3 bug.
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  • ZakuBeta
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    Isn't the cost drop from a passive?

    Check your passives and see if you can find it, I'm away from home so can't check right now.
  • starkerealm
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    susmitds wrote: »
    What you are basically saying is making werewolf a toggled ultimate.

    Except, if you're in combat, it's already a toggled ultimate, effectively. Between devour, cost discounts, and time back from damage.
  • snorlockb16_ESO
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    Effectively you are suggesting that WW work like Overload, so it's not a bad idea in the sense that the mechanic is already there in the game, and it could be balanced against the known Overload ability.

    I think the main reason for the timer is that they don't want Werewolves walking around permanently in cities not killing anything because it wouldn't make a lick of sense. (The guards should immediately become hostile if you transform in front of them.)
  • starkerealm
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    Effectively you are suggesting that WW work like Overload, so it's not a bad idea in the sense that the mechanic is already there in the game, and it could be balanced against the known Overload ability.

    I think the main reason for the timer is that they don't want Werewolves walking around permanently in cities not killing anything because it wouldn't make a lick of sense. (The guards should immediately become hostile if you transform in front of them.)

    Also, it's a little weird that you can carry on a conversation while wolfed out, but you cannot intimidate people as one...
  • ZakuBeta
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    Effectively you are suggesting that WW work like Overload, so it's not a bad idea in the sense that the mechanic is already there in the game, and it could be balanced against the known Overload ability.

    I think the main reason for the timer is that they don't want Werewolves walking around permanently in cities not killing anything because it wouldn't make a lick of sense. (The guards should immediately become hostile if you transform in front of them.)

    Why would you waste your ultimate in a city? Much less keep randomly using skills. If guards were to start attacking people who use attacks/skills in a civilians area, maybe there wouldn't be so much lag from the people who are constantly casting crap for no real reason. Put away those pets too, as they should also agro guards. Unless a city is combat zone, you should get into trouble for using combat skills in a city.
  • IcyDeadPeople
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    Ok so here's what I think: Why not remove the existing timer when transformed and instead replace it with your Ultimate count? Basically when you transform your Ultimate starts depleting while transformed and the usual means of keeping your WW timer filled go towards Ultimate instead. Naturally Light and Heavy Attacks would still not grant Ultimate while transformed but forcing your transformation to end would serve to preserve your Ultimate for later use (like with Overload).

    Thoughts?

    I don't get it - do you feel something is not working well with werewolf as it currently is?

    Just recently started playing werewolf form for the first time since ESO launch and it's a lot of fun, feels quite powerful in PVE as well as PVP.

    It wasn't hard to stay in werewolf form.
    Edited by IcyDeadPeople on July 9, 2016 6:47PM
  • UltimaJoe777
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    Effectively you are suggesting that WW work like Overload, so it's not a bad idea in the sense that the mechanic is already there in the game, and it could be balanced against the known Overload ability.

    I think the main reason for the timer is that they don't want Werewolves walking around permanently in cities not killing anything because it wouldn't make a lick of sense. (The guards should immediately become hostile if you transform in front of them.)

    Also, it's a little weird that you can carry on a conversation while wolfed out, but you cannot intimidate people as one...

    You also cannot cook because "your paws are clumsy" :p

    Silver Chef is silver.

    Ok so here's what I think: Why not remove the existing timer when transformed and instead replace it with your Ultimate count? Basically when you transform your Ultimate starts depleting while transformed and the usual means of keeping your WW timer filled go towards Ultimate instead. Naturally Light and Heavy Attacks would still not grant Ultimate while transformed but forcing your transformation to end would serve to preserve your Ultimate for later use (like with Overload).

    Thoughts?

    I don't get it - do you feel something is not working well with werewolf as it currently is?

    Just recently started playing werewolf form for the first time since ESO launch and it's a lot of fun, feels quite powerful in PVE as well as PVP.

    It wasn't hard to stay in werewolf form.

    Werewolf is fine beyond one tiny problem: How much you have to do to have it ready, only to barely use it in a Delve unless you stay there for hours. If the transformation were truly a toggle then you could revert to normal to preserve ultimate THEN change maps and have your Werewolf form ready immediately instead of having to go regain 300 Ultimate (or less depending on class and gear, but still...) to be able to transform again. Compared to Vampires, Werewolf capability is used far less than half the time for reasons like this. Furthermore, World Boss fights practically REQUIRE you throw yourself in harms way and go out of your way to devour ads just to maintain the form. This actually got my Werewolf killed for his very first time in Werewolf form because I didn't want to lose the transformation. Furthermore you must stay in combat CONSTANTLY to maintain the form. Only by being in a group with 3+ other Werewolves can you minimize some of the problem, but not all of them.

    In short Werewolf has 2 sustainability problems:
    1. Has nothing to maintain the form when not in combat too much, thus wasting the transformation and/or forcing you to constantly seek combat, which isn't always doable and depending on how long it takes to find more may not help anyway.
    2. World Bosses without ads are NOT Werewolf friendly, and neither are Dolmens where corpses do not linger beyond the Worm Cultists and final Daedra.
    Edited by UltimaJoe777 on July 9, 2016 8:12PM
    Guildmaster of Power With Numbers in PS4 NA Server's Aldmeri Dominion.
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  • starkerealm
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    In short Werewolf has 2 sustainability problems:
    1. Has nothing to maintain the form when not in combat too much, thus wasting the transformation and/or forcing you to constantly seek combat, which isn't always doable and depending on how long it takes to find more may not help anyway.
    2. World Bosses without ads are NOT Werewolf friendly, and neither are Dolmens where corpses do not linger beyond the Worm Cultists and final Daedra.

    2 isn't true anymore. So long as you're taking damage every 3 seconds, your timer will effectively stop.
  • UltimaJoe777
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    In short Werewolf has 2 sustainability problems:
    1. Has nothing to maintain the form when not in combat too much, thus wasting the transformation and/or forcing you to constantly seek combat, which isn't always doable and depending on how long it takes to find more may not help anyway.
    2. World Bosses without ads are NOT Werewolf friendly, and neither are Dolmens where corpses do not linger beyond the Worm Cultists and final Daedra.

    2 isn't true anymore. So long as you're taking damage every 3 seconds, your timer will effectively stop.

    Against a World Boss that can be rather troublesome depending on the crowd present. Hard to take damage if the enemies ignore you and the ads are slaughtered...
    Edited by UltimaJoe777 on July 9, 2016 8:41PM
    Guildmaster of Power With Numbers in PS4 NA Server's Aldmeri Dominion.
    Proud Founder of the Yaysay cult! DOWN WITH THE NAYSAY CULT!! #ToxicRemedy
  • starkerealm
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    In short Werewolf has 2 sustainability problems:
    1. Has nothing to maintain the form when not in combat too much, thus wasting the transformation and/or forcing you to constantly seek combat, which isn't always doable and depending on how long it takes to find more may not help anyway.
    2. World Bosses without ads are NOT Werewolf friendly, and neither are Dolmens where corpses do not linger beyond the Worm Cultists and final Daedra.

    2 isn't true anymore. So long as you're taking damage every 3 seconds, your timer will effectively stop.

    Against a World Boss that can be rather troublesome depending on the crowd present. Hard to take damage if the enemies ignore you and the ads are slaughtered...

    If you're getting ignored because there are so many people there... you're not getting that much out of the transform. Also, you've got a gap closer on your bar, there's no excuse for not using it.
  • UltimaJoe777
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    In short Werewolf has 2 sustainability problems:
    1. Has nothing to maintain the form when not in combat too much, thus wasting the transformation and/or forcing you to constantly seek combat, which isn't always doable and depending on how long it takes to find more may not help anyway.
    2. World Bosses without ads are NOT Werewolf friendly, and neither are Dolmens where corpses do not linger beyond the Worm Cultists and final Daedra.

    2 isn't true anymore. So long as you're taking damage every 3 seconds, your timer will effectively stop.

    Against a World Boss that can be rather troublesome depending on the crowd present. Hard to take damage if the enemies ignore you and the ads are slaughtered...

    If you're getting ignored because there are so many people there... you're not getting that much out of the transform. Also, you've got a gap closer on your bar, there's no excuse for not using it.

    Or maybe someone there has stronger DPS or is using a taunt, or the enemy is enraged at a healer. Plenty of reasons to get ignored by enemies you know. Gap closers won't change aggro by themselves either.
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