Re: Can we talk about how good and possibly OP dawnbreaker of Smiting is now.

KundaliniHero

Its just brutal -

1. You cant break out of it.
2. They can damage you while your helpless on the ground for the duration
3. There is no shield or protection that outlasts the duration.

The only thing I can see that might help you survive is if you have a healer with you that can spam heals on you while your getting f*cked in the ***. To be clear Im not asking for nerfs unlike most of the whiners on here I relish the challenge. But is their something I'm missing, like say atleast one counter to this?

Sandman929

You can still block it, no? I seriously haven't encountered it yet.

KundaliniHero

I know for a fact you cant block flawless dawnbreaker, not a 100% on smiting though.

Lokey0024

Yes. We can. It's.....so nice. Borderline good.

Sandman929

KundaliniHero wrote: »

I know for a fact you cant block flawless dawnbreaker, not a 100% on smiting though.

Then I'm happy I haven't had it used on me yet.

KundaliniHero

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Yes. We can. It's.....so nice. Borderline good.

yes we can...what exactly?

DDuke

It's not a Nightblade specific ulti, so it can't be OP.

Kappa.

Solariken

You can break free and it can be blocked. You should do some actual testing. You will see that it functions pretty much exactly the same for stamina builds now that it did for magicka builds prior (minus the vampire one-shots). It's fast, so it's difficult to block reactively. In heavy lag, break free is unreliable regardless. I'm not sure why you think it's so OP now.

KundaliniHero

DDuke wrote: »

It's not a Nightblade specific ulti, so it can't be OP.

Kappa.

Never said it was. Ok so I may have been too confident to rely on rudimentary reading comprehension skills to carry this question to the promised land. So let's try this again and as simple as possible:

WHAT IS THE COUNTER TO DAWNBREAKER OF SMITING?

I believe this ability is on the fast track to being stamina builds "meteor", but meteor is easy to block, I rarely die to it unless I have no stamina. I'll try just blocking it, but I feel like I probably did that already because it's sort of an ingrained reflex to block cast while im in PVP.

KundaliniHero

Solariken wrote: »

You can break free and it can be blocked. You should do some actual testing. You will see that it functions pretty much exactly the same for stamina builds now that it did for magicka builds prior (minus the vampire one-shots). It's fast, so it's difficult to block reactively. In heavy lag, break free is unreliable regardless. I'm not sure why you think it's so OP now.

THANK YOU! That was all I needed to know, I just need to work on timing with block on priority - you are absolutely correct about break free. I would only say its OP if it didn't have a counter but it is clear it does and will just take practice to get the timing right.

OdinForge

You can block and build better to deal with the damage, nothing about the damage of the skill has really changed except that now it belongs properly (scales with) to stamina classes instead of magicka. Magicka classes were pulling insane damage with the skill prior to DB, it just didn't knock down non-vampires etc.

Not being able to CC break properly is an issue that isn't unique to dawnbreaker, there seems to be a general CC break issue across the board with Dark Brotherhood patch.

KundaliniHero

OdinForge wrote: »

You can block and build better to deal with the damage, nothing about the damage of the skill has really changed except that now it belongs properly (scales with) to stamina classes instead of magicka. Magicka classes were pulling insane damage with the skill prior to DB, it just didn't knock down non-vampires etc.

Not being able to CC break properly is an issue that isn't unique to dawnbreaker, there seems to be a general CC break issue across the board with Dark Brotherhood patch.

OdinForge wrote: »

You can block and build better to deal with the damage, nothing about the damage of the skill has really changed except that now it belongs properly (scales with) to stamina classes instead of magicka. Magicka classes were pulling insane damage with the skill prior to DB, it just didn't knock down non-vampires etc.

Not being able to CC break properly is an issue that isn't unique to dawnbreaker, there seems to be a general CC break issue across the board with Dark Brotherhood patch.

yeah the damage from the ultimate isn't a big deal, its the 4 guys wailing on you while you're helpless on the ground. So it makes sense nailing the block is the best way to mitigate the secondary effects rather than relying on the break free. Thank you all for your assistance.

Lokey0024

I just cant wait to land it empowered on a vamp. The nerf cry will echo in the taverns of tamriel henceforth!

JLAMAR22

It made me replace my Take Flight it's DoT is just to good not to take

leepalmer95

Incap : Single target, easily dodged, cc, 20% extra dmg, 30% heal debuff for 6s.

Dawnbreaker of smiting : AOE, hits through dodge, 3% wpn dmg on equip, 20% extra dmg to vamps, very hard hitting dot, actually does more dmg than incap because of the dot tick being instant and very high.

Buy hey people will complain about incap.

Takes-No-Prisoner

The stun on Incap Strike saved my life Having a 50 cost Ult really does come in handy when you're down to the wire on resources and so is your opponent

But what do I know I can only play Stamina NightBlade

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Dawnbreaker of smiting : hits through dodge,

The best part of them dodging or running away, is when they are running away in front of you and you DBOS and they die anyway from DBOS sheer range

ShalidorsHeir

I see soooo many not hitting any target in front so incap is OP and DB is not !

ShalidorsHeir

but really:! DB is fine as it is as long as there are no usefull ultimates for ALL CLASSES ... for both stamina AND magicka PvP is not meant to sustain and resist everything and live forever these days but to hit hard and fukk all healing nubs to kill even more players and also faster or to be a zerg of healers. Follow new meta after a patch and enjoy --> the game was already lost after patch 2.1 (1.7) when ZOS started *** like shield breaker (things that did not fix a problem but created a new one) leading to fasalas guile, overscaled malubeth, rerolling templar etc.

and btw. the best counter to dawnbreaker is .... dawnbreaker

vamp_emily

One thing you could try is test different armor sets that will reduce AOE damage.

Example Leki amor will reduce the damage by 25 percent. If you stack that with something like dark cloak it will reduce the damage by 45 percent.

Toc de Malsvi

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Incap : Single target, easily dodged, cc, 20% extra dmg, 30% heal debuff for 6s.

Dawnbreaker of smiting : AOE, hits through dodge, 3% wpn dmg on equip, 20% extra dmg to vamps, very hard hitting dot, actually does more dmg than incap because of the dot tick being instant and very high.

Buy hey people will complain about incap.

Incap is a 50 cost ult....You can get off 2 Incap's for every Dawnbreaker.

susmitds

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Incap : Single target, easily dodged, cc, 20% extra dmg, 30% heal debuff for 6s.

Dawnbreaker of smiting : AOE, hits through dodge, 3% wpn dmg on equip, 20% extra dmg to vamps, very hard hitting dot, actually does more dmg than incap because of the dot tick being instant and very high.

Buy hey people will complain about incap.

Incap is a 50 cost ult....You can get off 2 Incap's for every Dawnbreaker.

I wiped a stacking group of five with a single Dawnbreaker of Smiting. But hey, Incap can only hit one guy.

Toc de Malsvi

susmitds wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Incap : Single target, easily dodged, cc, 20% extra dmg, 30% heal debuff for 6s.

Dawnbreaker of smiting : AOE, hits through dodge, 3% wpn dmg on equip, 20% extra dmg to vamps, very hard hitting dot, actually does more dmg than incap because of the dot tick being instant and very high.

Buy hey people will complain about incap.

Incap is a 50 cost ult....You can get off 2 Incap's for every Dawnbreaker.

I wiped a stacking group of five with a single Dawnbreaker of Smiting. But hey, Incap can only hit one guy.

Your telling me you used dawnbreaker and then just stood there and 5 players went from 100% to 0? SURE....

In other news some things are better for 1vX, others are better for 1v1. Like how Poison Injection is so strong 1v1 but suddenly loses its luster in 1vX scenario's. So sad that NB obscenely powerful cheap single target ultimate is single target and not a more expensive AOE.....

leepalmer95

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Incap : Single target, easily dodged, cc, 20% extra dmg, 30% heal debuff for 6s.

Dawnbreaker of smiting : AOE, hits through dodge, 3% wpn dmg on equip, 20% extra dmg to vamps, very hard hitting dot, actually does more dmg than incap because of the dot tick being instant and very high.

Buy hey people will complain about incap.

Incap is a 50 cost ult....You can get off 2 Incap's for every Dawnbreaker.

I wiped a stacking group of five with a single Dawnbreaker of Smiting. But hey, Incap can only hit one guy.

Your telling me you used dawnbreaker and then just stood there and 5 players went from 100% to 0? SURE....

In other news some things are better for 1vX, others are better for 1v1. Like how Poison Injection is so strong 1v1 but suddenly loses its luster in 1vX scenario's. So sad that NB obscenely powerful cheap single target ultimate is single target and not a more expensive AOE.....

It's actually possible, if you use a really high dmg build a db will actually pretty much 1 hit someone.

Btw injection is still good 1vX , simply hitting a few people with it and then using a strong aoe, e.g. DB will kill people very quicky, DB for a cool 12k, they take a 3k tick, injection then ticks for 2k-6.5k depending on the hp

KundaliniHero

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Incap : Single target, easily dodged, cc, 20% extra dmg, 30% heal debuff for 6s.

Dawnbreaker of smiting : AOE, hits through dodge, 3% wpn dmg on equip, 20% extra dmg to vamps, very hard hitting dot, actually does more dmg than incap because of the dot tick being instant and very high.

Buy hey people will complain about incap.

Incap is a 50 cost ult....You can get off 2 Incap's for every Dawnbreaker.

I wiped a stacking group of five with a single Dawnbreaker of Smiting. But hey, Incap can only hit one guy.

Your telling me you used dawnbreaker and then just stood there and 5 players went from 100% to 0? SURE....

In other news some things are better for 1vX, others are better for 1v1. Like how Poison Injection is so strong 1v1 but suddenly loses its luster in 1vX scenario's. So sad that NB obscenely powerful cheap single target ultimate is single target and not a more expensive AOE.....

Actually I have seen 4 players all get knocked to the ground and wiped by two enemy players so I can absolutely attest to his account - once you're on the ground you're pretty much helpless - essentially its party time to your face. This is part of the reason I started this thread. Speaking of which I was able to successfully block DOS last night but out of 4 attempts was only able to muster one successful block, its super fast. This all comes down to reactive blocking - you have to hit block before the enemies hand reaches the highpoint of the air or you're going downtown. Good luck timing that with lag though.

As far as the break free goes even with adequate stamina my success rate was zero. I am not sure if this is because I just died too fast once on the ground or whether the break free does not register properly (I am on PS4). I suspect within a few weeks you will not be able to go anywhere in PVP without having to deal with this - I think atm its potential has not been fully realized by the majority of players, but as I said before this will undoubtedly be the stamina go to ultimate replacing everything from Take Flight, Devouring Swarm etc. Even with what we would assume as hard counters such as devouring swarm can be easily avoided with ranged attacks. Some other counters that come to mind would be well timed streak or even shadow image teleport. One thing I have not tried however which I think might work would be utilizing the 'ol wrecking blow avoidance strat of rolling or moving through the target, your going to get the dot no matter what because I believe it is in fact undodgeable but this could avoid the knockdown, maybe, probably not.

I must admit though I am relishing that moment of witnessing two stamina builds cast this on each other simultaneously for some hot snow angel action, lolz.

DDuke

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Incap : Single target, easily dodged, cc, 20% extra dmg, 30% heal debuff for 6s.

Dawnbreaker of smiting : AOE, hits through dodge, 3% wpn dmg on equip, 20% extra dmg to vamps, very hard hitting dot, actually does more dmg than incap because of the dot tick being instant and very high.

Buy hey people will complain about incap.

Incap is a 50 cost ult....You can get off 2 Incap's for every Dawnbreaker.

I wiped a stacking group of five with a single Dawnbreaker of Smiting. But hey, Incap can only hit one guy.

Your telling me you used dawnbreaker and then just stood there and 5 players went from 100% to 0? SURE....

In other news some things are better for 1vX, others are better for 1v1. Like how Poison Injection is so strong 1v1 but suddenly loses its luster in 1vX scenario's. So sad that NB obscenely powerful cheap single target ultimate is single target and not a more expensive AOE.....

Heheh...

I have an... interesting stamplar build coming up with 6k weapon damage

Jabs->DBOS->Reverse Slice = RIP enemies (plural)

Vaoh

Dawnbreaker is a very strong Ultimate. VERY strong.

As for the discussion on Incap Strike..... I think any Stam NB with a strong build knows exactly what that thing is capable of. It's pretty crazy.

Vangy

DBOS is the go-to stamina ultimate for PvP not because its OP..... Its cos... well... we have....

1. Take flight (for dks) , Corrosive amour (lol-armour of fail)
2. Incap for NBs.....

and .... and.... Hmmm.... And.....mmm.....

Wait.... That's it...... I think... (sorry if i missed any ult)

As for its strength.. If anything DBOS got slightly weaker imo since it lost most of its bonus damage to deadra and undead. Its nowhere near as strong as it was now on my stam DK or nb compared to how broken it was on my mag sorc and magplar before.... Litreally 1 proxy>curse>shard>dbos is instagib even for tanks who were vamps lol.

leepalmer95

Vangy wrote: »

DBOS is the go-to stamina ultimate for PvP not because its OP..... Its cos... well... we have....

1. Take flight (for dks) , Corrosive amour (lol-armour of fail)
2. Incap for NBs.....

and .... and.... Hmmm.... And.....mmm.....

Wait.... That's it...... I think... (sorry if i missed any ult)

As for its strength.. If anything DBOS got slightly weaker imo since it lost most of its bonus damage to deadra and undead. Its nowhere near as strong as it was now on my stam DK or nb compared to how broken it was on my mag sorc and magplar before.... Litreally 1 proxy>curse>shard>dbos is instagib even for tanks who were vamps lol.

It got 25% dmg buff via cp.
It gets 3% wpn dmg
It always cc's.
Still does 20% dmg to vamps/ww.

Weaker huh?

Brrrofski

You can cc break it. Well, most people can. If seem can't react and cc break quickly, or fail to manage stamina in order to cc break, it's on them.

If it's so IP, why do the 2 classes with stamina scaling ults still use those two ults?

Brrrofski

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

DBOS is the go-to stamina ultimate for PvP not because its OP..... Its cos... well... we have....

1. Take flight (for dks) , Corrosive amour (lol-armour of fail)
2. Incap for NBs.....

and .... and.... Hmmm.... And.....mmm.....

Wait.... That's it...... I think... (sorry if i missed any ult)

As for its strength.. If anything DBOS got slightly weaker imo since it lost most of its bonus damage to deadra and undead. Its nowhere near as strong as it was now on my stam DK or nb compared to how broken it was on my mag sorc and magplar before.... Litreally 1 proxy>curse>shard>dbos is instagib even for tanks who were vamps lol.

It got 25% dmg buff via cp.
It gets 3% wpn dmg
It always cc's.
Still does 20% dmg to vamps/ww.

Weaker huh?

It didn't get buffed from cp. Elemental was buffing it that much on magica builds.

olsborg

vamp_emily wrote: »

One thing you could try is test different armor sets that will reduce AOE damage.

Example Leki amor will reduce the damage by 25 percent. If you stack that with something like dark cloak it will reduce the damage by 45 percent.

See, this is a smart comment, most things ingame has some kinda counter.