ESO - One Tamriel (what are your thoughts?)

TerraDewBerry

SantieClaws wrote: »

Khajiit will make everything alright again.

Anyone who is unhappy with this decision may get one free puddles worth of fishing company from this one - also possibly a fishy stick.

Travel is at your own expense. Puddle time must be taken during the Fishmas Festival - between 24 and 30 of Evening Star.

This offer is not limited to any alliance but is limited to European Tamriel.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

Have you ever considered immigrating to the NA/PC server?

MasterSpatula

nimander99 wrote: »

As far as people arguing that this breaks continuity I'll say this: All the Elder Scrolls Games had a Main Quest Line and Side Quest Stories, Dark Brotherhood, Fighter's Guild etc. Plus local city quest lines and the like. Allowing us to just head in any direction we want and start any of the quest lines we want actually makes this game (finally!) extremely similar to the original games.

Sure, but you couldn't skip ahead in the individual questlines of any of those factions or locations. (At least, not without Console commands.)

And the best RPGs of the franchise had areas where you would be completely slaughtered if you went there too early. This is good. In later games, they decided to cast a wider net, getting more money from people who had no interest in a real sense of progression. It made them more money, but it was all telling their core audience that they could f*** right off.

As I've mentioned before, there's a reason the #1 category of Oblivion mods was mods to remove scaling. Mods to make the whole game brutal at level 1. Mods to make remote areas more dangerous than local areas. Mods that turned dungeons filled with nothing but Goblin warlords into groups of multiple goblins and occasional warlord. Mods to fix an element of the game that was just appallingly, awfully, infuriatingly BAD. And now, hey, here comes that same bad element to ESO.

In One Tamriel, you'll have no opportunity to go test yourself with enemies way above your level. The game will always upscale you to be able to beat them. You'll never have the chance to go into that Public Dungeon that was hard when you were first starting out and see how much more powerful you've become. The game will always downscale you.

So we end up with an Arcade Game with an RPG skin over it, but the gameplay won't be RPG. And core fans can, once again, f*** right off. Arcade Game fans are the people who actually matter.

TES games always gave us freedom, but the better TES games gave us consequences for doing stupid things with that freedom. Comparing ESO to the TES franchise can be a bit problematic, since there franchise evolves and, to some, devolves with every chapter.

Enodoc

Robbmrp wrote: »

For me, this raises some really big questions.

Current system performance is based off 1/3 of the player base. Meaning we only see those within our faction. What's that going to do to server performance when we can now see everyone in the entire zone? What is Zenimax doing to ensure that this will still be a "playable" game? Some Campaigns in Cyrodil are already over encumbered with server lag, is the entire game going to be this same way now? If they can pull it off with the performance we need to enjoy the game as it should be, then this should be a great change.

@Robbmrp The game already dynamically creates new instances (or "shards") based on population, so the setup won't really be any different. Consider the case where there are 150 DC players in one instance of Glenumbra, and another 150 DC players in a second instance of Glenumbra. Then 200 AD players in a third Glenumbra, and 100 EP players in a fourth.

After this change, that would adjust to, for example, 75 DC, 50 AD and 25 EP in one instance of Glenumbra, 75/50/25 again in a second, 100 DC, 67 AD and 33 EP in a third, and 50 DC, 33 AD and 17 EP in a fourth. The distribution of players is different, but the number of players in each server shard, and thus the total server resources required, is the same.

Morimizo

Enodoc wrote: »

Robbmrp wrote: »

For me, this raises some really big questions.

Current system performance is based off 1/3 of the player base. Meaning we only see those within our faction. What's that going to do to server performance when we can now see everyone in the entire zone? What is Zenimax doing to ensure that this will still be a "playable" game? Some Campaigns in Cyrodil are already over encumbered with server lag, is the entire game going to be this same way now? If they can pull it off with the performance we need to enjoy the game as it should be, then this should be a great change.

@Robbmrp The game already dynamically creates new instances (or "shards") based on population, so the setup won't really be any different. Consider the case where there are 150 DC players in one instance of Glenumbra, and another 150 DC players in a second instance of Glenumbra. Then 200 AD players in a third Glenumbra, and 100 EP players in a fourth.

After this change, that would adjust to, for example, 75 DC, 50 AD and 25 EP in one instance of Glenumbra, 75/50/25 again in a second, 100 DC, 67 AD and 33 EP in a third, and 50 DC, 33 AD and 17 EP in a fourth. The distribution of players is different, but the number of players in each server shard, and thus the total server resources required, is the same.

It is worth noting, however, that a starting area from a Gold Zone, like Stros M'kai, will definitely have more players in the shard, because now it is practically empty. I think every shard is more likely to be full; which is fine, but will it mean trading zone type lag for every area?

Muizer

@OP sounds like something I would have appreciated 2 years ago. Having done most of the content multiple times over, however, it holds no added value for me anymore.

Enodoc

Morimizo wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Robbmrp wrote: »

For me, this raises some really big questions.

Current system performance is based off 1/3 of the player base. Meaning we only see those within our faction. What's that going to do to server performance when we can now see everyone in the entire zone? What is Zenimax doing to ensure that this will still be a "playable" game? Some Campaigns in Cyrodil are already over encumbered with server lag, is the entire game going to be this same way now? If they can pull it off with the performance we need to enjoy the game as it should be, then this should be a great change.

The game already dynamically creates new instances (or "shards") based on population, so the setup won't really be any different. Consider the case where there are 150 DC players in one instance of Glenumbra, and another 150 DC players in a second instance of Glenumbra. Then 200 AD players in a third Glenumbra, and 100 EP players in a fourth.

After this change, that would adjust to, for example, 75 DC, 50 AD and 25 EP in one instance of Glenumbra, 75/50/25 again in a second, 100 DC, 67 AD and 33 EP in a third, and 50 DC, 33 AD and 17 EP in a fourth. The distribution of players is different, but the number of players in each server shard, and thus the total server resources required, is the same.

It is worth noting, however, that a starting area from a Gold Zone, like Stros M'kai, will definitely have more players in the shard, because now it is practically empty. I think every shard is more likely to be full; which is fine, but will it mean trading zone type lag for every area?

I guess that depends on how often the server decides to create a new shard. A few more shards with a few less people probably wouldn't be a bad thing.

Runefang

If implemented correctly I think it'll be a great change. I only just started playing (level 10 stamplar) and its frustrating to be so over-leveled. I don't want to skip content but it won't help me gain XP.

MasterSpatula wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

As far as people arguing that this breaks continuity I'll say this: All the Elder Scrolls Games had a Main Quest Line and Side Quest Stories, Dark Brotherhood, Fighter's Guild etc. Plus local city quest lines and the like. Allowing us to just head in any direction we want and start any of the quest lines we want actually makes this game (finally!) extremely similar to the original games.

Sure, but you couldn't skip ahead in the individual questlines of any of those factions or locations. (At least, not without Console commands.)

And the best RPGs of the franchise had areas where you would be completely slaughtered if you went there too early. This is good. In later games, they decided to cast a wider net, getting more money from people who had no interest in a real sense of progression. It made them more money, but it was all telling their core audience that they could f*** right off.

As I've mentioned before, there's a reason the #1 category of Oblivion mods was mods to remove scaling. Mods to make the whole game brutal at level 1. Mods to make remote areas more dangerous than local areas. Mods that turned dungeons filled with nothing but Goblin warlords into groups of multiple goblins and occasional warlord. Mods to fix an element of the game that was just appallingly, awfully, infuriatingly BAD. And now, hey, here comes that same bad element to ESO.

In One Tamriel, you'll have no opportunity to go test yourself with enemies way above your level. The game will always upscale you to be able to beat them. You'll never have the chance to go into that Public Dungeon that was hard when you were first starting out and see how much more powerful you've become. The game will always downscale you.

So we end up with an Arcade Game with an RPG skin over it, but the gameplay won't be RPG. And core fans can, once again, f*** right off. Arcade Game fans are the people who actually matter.

TES games always gave us freedom, but the better TES games gave us consequences for doing stupid things with that freedom. Comparing ESO to the TES franchise can be a bit problematic, since there franchise evolves and, to some, devolves with every chapter.

This is the number one issue with the battle-leveled approach in ESO and any other game. Sure there are benefits but a massive downside is the entire game feels the same, there is no easy and hard any more. It's why I abandoned Fallout 4, its why I never finished Skyrim.

If done right you can achieve the best of both worlds though but it's a lot more development work so I can't see it being done here.

Tomg999

It's probably the idea of the same clown who stood up in the meeting and said "We need to make them Group! They're not Grouping! Let's make Craglorn!!!"

Rev Rielle

Tomg999 wrote: »

It's probably the idea of the same clown who stood up in the meeting and said "We need to make them Group! They're not Grouping! Let's make Craglorn!!!"

Which has been the best zone by far in the game to date.

BenLocoDete

Preyfar wrote: »

I imagine they'll have to tweak some of the quests a bit to make them flow better with the concept of no alliances -- or perhaps we'll have Daggerfall specific quests in Aldmeri territory? Or more? I dunno.

Maybe it simply won't matter until you decide to join the war in Cyrodiil... in Morrowind, for example, the main source of wealth for adventurers comes from helping the Ebonheart Pact... once you travel to Stros M-kai, their concerns are others and they are looking for people to solve their problems within the Covenant. To my recollection, I can't mention any dialogue that would imply the character being in one of the three races forming said alliance.

I've already met people roleplaying Ebonheart Pact agents in Stros M-kai so how they are going to fit into that alliance campaign depends entirely on their imagination but overall, the idea of the character being simply a mercenary with no real commitment is somewhat clear... look how argonians and dunmer pact together, or the altmer and bosmer alliance, those are pretty circumstantial.

I wonder if they are adding more starting points and quests though, these really enhance replayability and general roleplay but what I'm really interested is if they'll offer supporting elements to completely surpass the "Vestige" role.

crazybluegrrlub17_ESO

I"m just worried that the quests and monsters that I have to level up in order to beat. If they level up with me, how will I be able to beat them (being a preferred solo player). It would force me to find more groups, which is hard to begin with. I will deal, of course, but this is my opinion.

wolfydog

crazybluegrrlub17_ESO wrote: »

I"m just worried that the quests and monsters that I have to level up in order to beat. If they level up with me, how will I be able to beat them (being a preferred solo player). It would force me to find more groups, which is hard to begin with. I will deal, of course, but this is my opinion.

Even right now if your a completionist and do everything youll outlevel the monsters by quite a few levels.

Plus, I'm sure a level 5 golblin being upscaled to champion 160 is going to be weaker then a natural champ 160 bad guy out in Orsinium.

Just like a level 5 player upscaled to champ 160 is still much weaker then a true high level player with all their champ points and skill points and good gear.

There should also be more people around to help out, even high level players who will help you kill a boss and stuff.

WeerW3ir

I have an idea. Only "veteran" zones should scale on you. Zones between lvl 1-50 should not

Lysette

MasterSpatula wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

As far as people arguing that this breaks continuity I'll say this: All the Elder Scrolls Games had a Main Quest Line and Side Quest Stories, Dark Brotherhood, Fighter's Guild etc. Plus local city quest lines and the like. Allowing us to just head in any direction we want and start any of the quest lines we want actually makes this game (finally!) extremely similar to the original games.

Sure, but you couldn't skip ahead in the individual questlines of any of those factions or locations. (At least, not without Console commands.)

And the best RPGs of the franchise had areas where you would be completely slaughtered if you went there too early. This is good. In later games, they decided to cast a wider net, getting more money from people who had no interest in a real sense of progression. It made them more money, but it was all telling their core audience that they could f*** right off.

As I've mentioned before, there's a reason the #1 category of Oblivion mods was mods to remove scaling. Mods to make the whole game brutal at level 1. Mods to make remote areas more dangerous than local areas. Mods that turned dungeons filled with nothing but Goblin warlords into groups of multiple goblins and occasional warlord. Mods to fix an element of the game that was just appallingly, awfully, infuriatingly BAD. And now, hey, here comes that same bad element to ESO.

In One Tamriel, you'll have no opportunity to go test yourself with enemies way above your level. The game will always upscale you to be able to beat them. You'll never have the chance to go into that Public Dungeon that was hard when you were first starting out and see how much more powerful you've become. The game will always downscale you.

So we end up with an Arcade Game with an RPG skin over it, but the gameplay won't be RPG. And core fans can, once again, f*** right off. Arcade Game fans are the people who actually matter.

TES games always gave us freedom, but the better TES games gave us consequences for doing stupid things with that freedom. Comparing ESO to the TES franchise can be a bit problematic, since there franchise evolves and, to some, devolves with every chapter.

The annoying part with Oblivion leveling was less that the enemies scale with you, but that you would see any common bandit at one point in time in full glass or full daedric armor, which killed the fun of having these sets yourself, because everyone else and their grandmother had these sets now as well.

NewBlacksmurf

Lysette wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

As far as people arguing that this breaks continuity I'll say this: All the Elder Scrolls Games had a Main Quest Line and Side Quest Stories, Dark Brotherhood, Fighter's Guild etc. Plus local city quest lines and the like. Allowing us to just head in any direction we want and start any of the quest lines we want actually makes this game (finally!) extremely similar to the original games.

Sure, but you couldn't skip ahead in the individual questlines of any of those factions or locations. (At least, not without Console commands.)

And the best RPGs of the franchise had areas where you would be completely slaughtered if you went there too early. This is good. In later games, they decided to cast a wider net, getting more money from people who had no interest in a real sense of progression. It made them more money, but it was all telling their core audience that they could f*** right off.

As I've mentioned before, there's a reason the #1 category of Oblivion mods was mods to remove scaling. Mods to make the whole game brutal at level 1. Mods to make remote areas more dangerous than local areas. Mods that turned dungeons filled with nothing but Goblin warlords into groups of multiple goblins and occasional warlord. Mods to fix an element of the game that was just appallingly, awfully, infuriatingly BAD. And now, hey, here comes that same bad element to ESO.

In One Tamriel, you'll have no opportunity to go test yourself with enemies way above your level. The game will always upscale you to be able to beat them. You'll never have the chance to go into that Public Dungeon that was hard when you were first starting out and see how much more powerful you've become. The game will always downscale you.

So we end up with an Arcade Game with an RPG skin over it, but the gameplay won't be RPG. And core fans can, once again, f*** right off. Arcade Game fans are the people who actually matter.

TES games always gave us freedom, but the better TES games gave us consequences for doing stupid things with that freedom. Comparing ESO to the TES franchise can be a bit problematic, since there franchise evolves and, to some, devolves with every chapter.

The annoying part with Oblivion leveling was less that the enemies scale with you, but that you would see any common bandit at one point in time in full glass or full daedric armor, which killed the fun of having these sets yourself, because everyone else and their grandmother had these sets now as well.

I actually felt it was better that randoms had OP gear because if killed, I got it.
I believe that's what many of us have to come to expect in an elder scrolls game especially if ZOS is going to make all NPCs cap level.

petraeus1

As others have said, going through Cadwell's now and doing sidequests I'm once again reminded that a lot of quests in ESO tie in to each other (which is great), which means there is a certain chronological order to them. This goes for a lot of sidequests as well as the faction stories. Skipping ahead from Khenarthi's Roost to Malabar Tor and back again will mess everything up - some of the sidequests only make sense when they're seen as the result of the preceding story in Khenarthi's, Auridon and Grahtwood.

I really wonder how ZOS will adress this, looks like complete spaghetti to me to untangle but not untangling it would be equally bad: if sense of the story orders you to do the zones in a certain order, it kinda defeats the purpose of One Tamriel.

Lysette

petraeus1 wrote: »

As others have said, going through Cadwell's now and doing sidequests I'm once again reminded that a lot of quests in ESO tie in to each other (which is great), which means there is a certain chronological order to them. This goes for a lot of sidequests as well as the faction stories. Skipping ahead from Khenarthi's Roost to Malabar Tor and back again will mess everything up - some of the sidequests only make sense when they're seen as the result of the preceding story in Khenarthi's, Auridon and Grahtwood.

I really wonder how ZOS will adress this, looks like complete spaghetti to me to untangle but not untangling it would be equally bad: if sense of the story orders you to do the zones in a certain order, it kinda defeats the purpose of One Tamriel.

Nothing hinders people, who want to follow the story line to keep doing that. To do things out of order is just an option, not mandatory. Not everyone is deeply into the lore and for some a quest might just be go to the quest giver, get the quest, see where the next quest marker is and what you have to do there, they might not even read or listen to the quest giver, because the journal tells them in short, what to do at the next quest marker and the map shows them where it is. And for those who play like this, it is not a problem at all, if things are out of order, because they basically give a damn about the story itself, they want the quest reward, the XP and eventually a skill point - and that's it for them. With One Tamriel they have the option to ignore what they do not want to do and pick up something else somewhere, where they like the area and the quest. Some might even not quest at all, but just level up by fighting mobs - and this will as well be more fun with a more open world.

NewBlacksmurf

petraeus1 wrote: »

As others have said, going through Cadwell's now and doing sidequests I'm once again reminded that a lot of quests in ESO tie in to each other (which is great), which means there is a certain chronological order to them. This goes for a lot of sidequests as well as the faction stories. Skipping ahead from Khenarthi's Roost to Malabar Tor and back again will mess everything up - some of the sidequests only make sense when they're seen as the result of the preceding story in Khenarthi's, Auridon and Grahtwood.

I really wonder how ZOS will adress this, looks like complete spaghetti to me to untangle but not untangling it would be equally bad: if sense of the story orders you to do the zones in a certain order, it kinda defeats the purpose of One Tamriel.

My hope is they do nothing other than giving us a on screen indicator of skill quests (think of Cadwell but for everywhere)

If the game isn't open, it will not succeed. The main point of One Tamriel is to not phase out to limit the PvE experiences that are typically done in 1-3 ppl encounters.

Maybe even @ZOS_GinaBruno can share with the devs that we'd like a way to always know what skills quests remain just like the man quest line and the Cadwell series but instead, just listing all Cadwell quests in one spot called "Stories & Lore"

petraeus1

Lysette wrote: »

petraeus1 wrote: »

As others have said, going through Cadwell's now and doing sidequests I'm once again reminded that a lot of quests in ESO tie in to each other (which is great), which means there is a certain chronological order to them. This goes for a lot of sidequests as well as the faction stories. Skipping ahead from Khenarthi's Roost to Malabar Tor and back again will mess everything up - some of the sidequests only make sense when they're seen as the result of the preceding story in Khenarthi's, Auridon and Grahtwood.

I really wonder how ZOS will adress this, looks like complete spaghetti to me to untangle but not untangling it would be equally bad: if sense of the story orders you to do the zones in a certain order, it kinda defeats the purpose of One Tamriel.

Nothing hinders people, who want to follow the story line to keep doing that. To do things out of order is just an option, not mandatory. Not everyone is deeply into the lore and for some a quest might just be go to the quest giver, get the quest, see where the next quest marker is and what you have to do there, they might not even read or listen to the quest giver, because the journal tells them in short, what to do at the next quest marker and the map shows them where it is. And for those who play like this, it is not a problem at all, if things are out of order, because they basically give a damn about the story itself, they want the quest reward, the XP and eventually a skill point - and that's it for them. With One Tamriel they have the option to ignore what they do not want to do and pick up something else somewhere, where they like the area and the quest. Some might even not quest at all, but just level up by fighting mobs - and this will as well be more fun with a more open world.

Sure, people can do whatever they want, that does not make it good design.

You'll always have this in MMOs to an extent, where the world stands still but the story progresses. I defeated Molag Bal but Dolmens still fall out of the sky. Emeric is still standing outside of Bangkorai Garrisson talking about a threat that I ended months ago. Levels were the only thing that enforced chronology. In other games, you need to do story steps in order, but in ESO that is only the case in limited scenarios - it does not, as far as I know, carry over across zone borders and it does not apply to sidequests.

New players who will come in with One Tamriel might not know the chronology and unwittingly skip story steps. Players may find themselves in the situation of two living Silvenars. In fact, if this is not adressed, I daresay players will find themselves in the situation of two living Silvenars. That just shouldn't be able to happen, being able to skip ahead unwittingly is lore and gamebreaking imo.

Battle leveling does not need to go hand in hand with One Tamriel. Guild Wars 2 has a better system with downscaling, where the zone order by level is maintained but high level players can come back to low level zones and play with their friends and earn rewards.

The game was not made with One Tamriel in mind, and implementing it now will shake the lore and stories of ESO to their foundation. Saying it's the players' responsibility to experience the story in the right order, defeats the purpose of 'go wherever you want': why would I go off the beaten track if that would lead to plot holes, lore inconsistencies and story spoilers?

Of course One Tamriel has upsides, but leaving this issue as is would make Tamriel look really lame. It surprises me to hear from your keyboard that it's good for people who don't care for the story or setting, since in another thread about instant level 50 buttons I've seen you profess you wouldn't want such people in this game.

seebra

i am disappointed

TalonKnight

1. BOOOOOOOOOO

2. guild wars 2 all over again.

3. guess its back to wow again.