Coupling Species - Lore breaking?

Ethromelb14_ESO

Every so often I come across a character that claims they've made a union with a very unlikely species type. Couples like a Dark Elf woman married to an Argonian Male. I then start to wonder ... what would their kids look like? I figure if ZoS is going to include such character types in the game, then they should allow us the player to make these types of characters. Make it so we can make a khajiit/Dark Elf mixed character, imagining that our parents were exactly that. Otherwise it would be better to not include in the world these fantastical couple combinations ... Just my opinion.

Xundiin

In lore for TES the child takes the racial traits of the mother. So if a Bosmer and a Khajiit mate, the child will be what ever the mother is.

As for Argonians and x species. I don't think it's possible for them to have children since Argonians lay eggs.

Ethromelb14_ESO

Xundiin wrote: »

In lore for TES the child takes the racial traits of the mother. So if a Bosmer and a Khajiit mate, the child will be what ever the mother is.

As for Argonians and x species. I don't think it's possible for them to have children since Argonians lay eggs.

So the child never gains mixed features of both parents? That's interesting ...

Xundiin

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

Xundiin wrote: »

In lore for TES the child takes the racial traits of the mother. So if a Bosmer and a Khajiit mate, the child will be what ever the mother is.

As for Argonians and x species. I don't think it's possible for them to have children since Argonians lay eggs.

So the child never gains mixed features of both parents? That's interesting ...

Nope, the exceptions to this rule is Bretons and Khajiit (that I know of). Bretons can either be human or have more elf like features. Like a more angular face or pointed ears (not as much as an actual elf but more than a human). This is caused by them having magical blood that is from Aldmer or Alyeids, I can't remember which but it's from elves that slept with Breton slaves iirc. But they are still not half-elves, they are Breton. A lot of people will try and put half-something is lore and they don't really exist.

The other exception to this rule is Khajiit. There are so many sub-species of the Khajiit I can't even remember them all, but they extend to looking more elf like to being a very large cat (think Senche here). What sub-species they are is dependent on what cycle of the moon they where born on and during what month... I think month not sure I'd have to go double check, but it is based on the cycle of the moon.

phaneub17_ESO

Why are Bretons so short when their elf heritage are so tall.

SantieClaws

Khajiit loves Bumnog yes it is true.

Love it knows not the boundaries of big teeth or green skin.

Khajiit will not let him wear the nose ring in the house though.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

Ethromelb14_ESO

Xundiin wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

Xundiin wrote: »

In lore for TES the child takes the racial traits of the mother. So if a Bosmer and a Khajiit mate, the child will be what ever the mother is.

As for Argonians and x species. I don't think it's possible for them to have children since Argonians lay eggs.

So the child never gains mixed features of both parents? That's interesting ...

Nope, the only exception to this rule is Bretons. Bretons can either be human or have more elf like features. Like a more angular face or pointed ears (not as much as an actual elf but more than a human). This is caused by them having magical blood that is from Aldmer or Alyeids, I can't remember which but it's from elves that slept with Breton slaves iirc. But they are still not half-elves, they are Breton. A lot of people will try and put half-something is lore and they don't really exist.

The other exception to this rule is Khajiit. There are so many sub-species of the Khajiit I can't even remember them all, but they extend to looking more elf like to being a very large cat (think Senche here). What sub-species they are is dependent on what cycle of the moon they where born on and during what month... I think month not sure I'd have to go double check, but it is based on the cycle of the moon.

Thanks for the information. I still think it sucks, but apparently it was intentionally meant to be this way.

Xundiin

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Why are Bretons so short when their elf heritage are so tall.

Because they aren't really elves. it's the magical blood that can give them elf like features. But they are human, and the chances of them looking more elfish is rare from what I remember.

JKorr

Yes, although the offspring might inherit some of the traits of the father, they look like the mother. If you are curious, look for the Grey Prince from Obvlivion on Youtube.Mother was orc, the father wasn't.

The Khajiiti are a whole other kind of cat. Some of them look like housecats, from normal sized cat cat to savannah sized, others get tattoos to make sure no one think they are bosmer, to Jobasha in Morrowind, to the kind we see in the game.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO

Some might get together, but not having sex.
In most cases of inter-species relations, sex would be... odd... to say the least.
And even if there is a form of sex, i cannot believe there would be an offspring.

Elebeth

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

Some might get together, but not having sex.
In most cases of inter-species relations, sex would be... odd... to say the least.
And even if there is a form of sex, i cannot believe there would be an offspring.

This.

Just because someone is "coupled" doesn't necessary mean that they can have children.
I remember reading in a book about Cyrod and Dunmer trying and having a hard time to conceive a child due to being of a different race.
So I believe that you can cross out any Man-Betmer hybrids.

Now lets see if I can find and link the book...

EDIT:

Ok, here we go; The book I was thinking about is "The Real Barenziah" (part 6) and it's not about inter-species difficulties, it's about age required to be fertile.

Next, "Notes on Racial Phylogeny" states that it is highly unlikely to have a inter-species offspring "on spot", meaning (as @bloodenragedb14_ESO mentioned) that it's usually a long term thing just as Bretons were.

However, the case of Agronak gro-Malog shows us that cross-breeding indeed can happen, due to him being half Orc - half Cyrod, but I think this should be viewed as an exception that confirms the "rules".

All things said, I still firmly believe that no Betmer can have an offspring with any race except with its own, while Man and (most) Mer can have, but in rare cases.

Sources:
The Real Barenziah
Notes on Racial Phylogeny
Origin of the Gray Prince

bloodenragedb14_ESO

While in lore, the ingame book racial phylogeny states that the child will always be the race of the mother with very minor traits taken from the father, such as eye color, or hair color.

that said

beast-mer are completely incompatible, breeding wise, with every other race but their own.

Before anyone tries to pull the 'breton card', bretons were the result of many many many generations of breeding experiments between elves and men looking to increase their fertility rates to be more in line with humans, as humans had a higher birth rate, resulting in rapid expansion, which was a very high point of contention between man and mer, as there was always more men, year to year, than there were mer.

Duiwel

Argonian children will be slaves.

So if you were wondering what race they will be OP the answer is: slave

Elebeth

Duiwel wrote: »

Argonian children will be slaves.

So if you were wondering what race they will be OP the answer is: slave

The Dunmer-Argonian couple mentioned by the OP paired when he (Argonian) was a slave and then run away to Shadowfen for the slave reason alone.

And in my post above I just said that Argoniasn can only have offspring with another Argonians so you are double wrong!

Get your facts straight! This ain't no games!

/sarcasm

Xundiin

Elebeth wrote: »

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

Some might get together, but not having sex.
In most cases of inter-species relations, sex would be... odd... to say the least.
And even if there is a form of sex, i cannot believe there would be an offspring.

This.

Just because someone is "coupled" doesn't necessary mean that they can have children.
I remember reading in a book about Cyrod and Dunmer trying and having a hard time to conceive a child due to being of a different race.
So I believe that you can cross out any Man-Betmer hybrids.

Now lets see if I can find and link the book...

EDIT:

Ok, here we go; The book I was thinking about is "The Real Barenziah" (part 6) and it's not about inter-species difficulties, it's about age required to be fertile.

Next, "Notes on Racial Phylogeny" states that it is highly unlikely to have a inter-species offspring "on spot", meaning (as @bloodenragedb14_ESO mentioned) that it's usually a long term thing just as Bretons were.

However, the case of Agronak gro-Malog shows us that cross-breeding indeed can happen, due to him being half Orc - half Cyrod, but I think this should be viewed as an exception that confirms the "rules".

All things said, I still firmly believe that no Betmer can have an offspring with any race except with its own, while Man and (most) Mer can have, but in rare cases.

Sources:
The Real Barenziah
Notes on Racial Phylogeny
Origin of the Gray Prince

"Elves consider themselves the only 'truly human race,' being descended directly from the gods, and regard the Manish and Beast races as highly intelligent animals. On the other hand, Imperial scholars consider Men, Elves, and Beastmen as 'men,' on the basis that individuals of all three groups can mate with one another.

Offspring of inter-racial matings have the racial appearance of the mother, but may occasionally share inherited characteristics and abilities of the father. Sloads, dragons, and other sentient races cannot mate with Men, Elves, or Beastmen, and are not considered 'human.' Exceptional accounts of matings between men and daedra do not fit smoothly into this scheme."

Source: http://www.imperial-library.info/

Elebeth

@Xundiin

Did you just linked an entire site as a source? That's not how it works.
Relevant info here - Search "Humanoid Races"
Do something like that ^

Are "In-game savants" NPCs?

Anyway;

Of relevance here is: "On the other hand, Imperial scholars consider Men, Elves, and Beastmen as 'men,' on the basis that individuals of all three groups can mate with one another."
And yet we don't have a single example of a Betmer-Men offspring, we have one case of Orc-Men offspring and a confirmed Men-Mer "relationships".

To me the paragraph "On the other hand, Imperial scholars consider Men, Elves, and Beastmen as 'men,' on the basis that individuals of all three groups can mate with one another." just looks like a poor counter argument to "Elves consider themselves the only 'truly human race,' being descended directly from the gods, and regard the Manish and Beast races as highly intelligent animals.".

I still stand by Mer-Men yes, Betmer-Men no.
How are you suppose to impregnate someone that lays eggs and requires Hist blessing?

P.S. Seriously, what are "In-game Savants"?

Selique

Argonians are the only race not descended from the same root race as Mer and Humans. They are from trans-dimensional trees, which makes them incompatible with other races in the offspring department.

It has more to do with the fact that Argonians are so alien to the other races, that they are unlike them in many many ways, rather than just simply them being Lizard-Folk.

waterfairy

What makes you think that they would even be able to make babies? Khajiit and human are like people who sleep with their pets in the real world (so nasty btw) and we don't see dog people running around.

Arciris

There-s also the case of Lyris Titanborn. Her father is supposed to be half giant half Nord, or maybe from a Nord subspecies that descend from both Nord and Giants... Not sure which one of the too, but, apparently, the fact that he has Giant blood caused his wife to die during Lyris' birth.

Ayalaya

Would be nice with double race skills. Mixed Bosmer and Redguard for example.

Xundiin

Elebeth wrote: »

@Xundiin

Did you just linked an entire site as a source? That's not how it works.
Relevant info here - Search "Humanoid Races"
Do something like that ^

Are "In-game savants" NPCs?

Anyway;

Of relevance here is: "On the other hand, Imperial scholars consider Men, Elves, and Beastmen as 'men,' on the basis that individuals of all three groups can mate with one another."
And yet we don't have a single example of a Betmer-Men offspring, we have one case of Orc-Men offspring and a confirmed Men-Mer "relationships".

To me the paragraph "On the other hand, Imperial scholars consider Men, Elves, and Beastmen as 'men,' on the basis that individuals of all three groups can mate with one another." just looks like a poor counter argument to "Elves consider themselves the only 'truly human race,' being descended directly from the gods, and regard the Manish and Beast races as highly intelligent animals.".

I still stand by Mer-Men yes, Betmer-Men no.
How are you suppose to impregnate someone that lays eggs and requires Hist blessing?

P.S. Seriously, what are "In-game Savants"?

That's official lore from the offical lore collection site. You'd have to dig through every NPC and back grounds and what not to find an example. But I'm fairly certain that there is a Khajiit child that has a human father. In fact I'm sure I've ran across a book or quest NPC random NPC that has mentioned this. As far as Argonians, I'm not buying they can inter-species breed either. But since they are not the only beast race... the statement that beast races and humans/mer can have children still stands.

As far as Elves go, Elves are very anti-mixing of blood. So it's not hard to believe that mixing species with any of the elf races is rare. So why would the statment that Elves see them selves as superior and wouldn't bother tainting the pure blood a reason to explain why mer/men and beast couldn't mate and have children. It's ideology vs biology.

Xundiin

Vigarr wrote: »

What makes you think that they would even be able to make babies? Khajiit and human are like people who sleep with their pets in the real world (so nasty btw) and we don't see dog people running around.

Because there is a huge difference between a real life dog, goat, horse, pig, ect. vs TES lore where men/mer/beast are humanoids.

Elebeth

Xundiin wrote: »

That's official lore from the offical lore collection site.

Yes, no and yes and no... I don't want to start debating "official lore" and "official sites"; you are both right and wrong here

Xundiin wrote: »

But I'm fairly certain that there is a Khajiit child that has a human father. In fact I'm sure I've ran across a book or quest NPC random NPC that has mentioned this. As far as Argonians, I'm not buying they can inter-species breed either. But since they are not the only beast race... the statement that beast races and humans/mer can have children still stands.

I'll try to find this reference about Khajiit, could prove to be usefull info. Unless the Khajiit was just fostered; there is an example of fostered Khajiit in Orsinium DLC.

Argonians really are a story for themselves, as @Selique mentioned.

But Khajiit are also bound to religion and mysticism, a complex and elaborate one. And I highly doubt that anyone except a Khajiit could" tap into" the Lunar Lattice and managed to create a hybrid. The Lunar Lattice seems to be set in stone with 16+1 possible furstocks. Although, there is a reference to few more furstocks not present in current (known) Lunar Lattice so maybe there could be some Bosmer-Khajiit offsprings, maybe. They are after all "conected" via Earth-Bones.
Still, I find it unlikely.

I don't want to go in Imga, Lilmothii, Echmer, etc, discussion.

Xundiin wrote: »

As far as Elves go, Elves are very anti-mixing of blood. So it's not hard to believe that mixing species with any of the elf races is rare. So why would the statment that Elves see them selves as superior and wouldn't bother tainting the pure blood a reason to explain why mer/men and beast couldn't mate and have children. It's ideology vs biology.

I don't quite understand what you are trying to say here? Ideology can't be used as an argument against biology in procreation debate. And I'v never said Mer and Men can't mix. Bretons, aka Manmer, are an example that the two can procreate. As is Tiber Septim and Barenziah.

Xundiin

Elebeth wrote: »

Xundiin wrote: »

That's official lore from the offical lore collection site.

Yes, no and yes and no... I don't want to start debating "official lore" and "official sites"; you are both right and wrong here

There's nothing to debate. The Imperial Library is the recognized official lore collection site not only by fans of TES but Bethesda themselves. They've done interviews with the "head librarian" (can't remember her name) that keeps up with all the lore and such.

Elebeth wrote: »

Xundiin wrote: »

But I'm fairly certain that there is a Khajiit child that has a human father. In fact I'm sure I've ran across a book or quest NPC random NPC that has mentioned this. As far as Argonians, I'm not buying they can inter-species breed either. But since they are not the only beast race... the statement that beast races and humans/mer can have children still stands.

I'll try to find this reference about Khajiit, could prove to be usefull info. Unless the Khajiit was just fostered; there is an example of fostered Khajiit in Orsinium DLC.

Argonians really are a story for themselves, as @Selique mentioned.

But Khajiit are also bound to religion and mysticism, a complex and elaborate one. And I highly doubt that anyone except a Khajiit could" tap into" the Lunar Lattice and managed to create a hybrid. The Lunar Lattice seems to be set in stone with 16+1 possible furstocks. Although, there is a reference to few more furstocks not present in current (known) Lunar Lattice so maybe there could be some Bosmer-Khajiit offsprings, maybe. They are after all "conected" via Earth-Bones.
Still, I find it unlikely.

Barenziah cocked her head to one side quizzically. "They say Dark Elven women are pro-- pro-- something. Prostitutes?" she said, although she was dubious.

"You mean promiscuous. Although some do become prostitutes, I suppose," Katisha said as an afterthought. "Elves are promiscuous when they're young. But you'll outgrow it. Perhaps you're beginning to already," she added hopefully. She liked Barenziah, had grown to be quite fond of her. "You ought to meet some nice Elven boys, though. If you go on keeping company with Khajiits and humans and what have you, you'll find yourself pregnant in next to no time."

Barenziah smiled involuntarily at the thought. "I'd like that. I think. But it would be inconvenient, wouldn't it? Babies are a lot of trouble, and I don't even have my own house yet."

That's a direct quote from http://uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Real_Barenziah,_v_2

This hints at mer and at least Khajiit being able to have children. Also, the moon cycle really wouldn't be an issue since either the mother is Khajiit or not and since the child is the race of the mother it would still follow the moon cycles and such, nothing would change except maybe the child would have different eyes or less cat like ears. Remember traits are very minor and have little to no real changes on the child.

Also, I want to point out when quoting some of these in game books, make sure you look at copies from before morrowind since they've been changed to be less graphic so they could keep their rating down. For example, Daggerfall in game books of The Real Barenziah is much more detailed in sexual promiscuity than the versions that come after Morrowind.

Elebeth wrote: »

Xundiin wrote: »

As far as Elves go, Elves are very anti-mixing of blood. So it's not hard to believe that mixing species with any of the elf races is rare. So why would the statment that Elves see them selves as superior and wouldn't bother tainting the pure blood a reason to explain why mer/men and beast couldn't mate and have children. It's ideology vs biology.

I don't quite understand what you are trying to say here? Ideology can't be used as an argument against biology in procreation debate. And I'v never said Mer and Men can't mix. Bretons, aka Manmer, are an example that the two can procreate. As is Tiber Septim and Barenziah.

Because you called it a weaker argument to what elves see themselves as compared to what the Imperial Scholars see. What that passage was suppose to do was show that men, mer, and beast could mate. Which you didn't take it as that. it looked more like you where arguing towards the ideology of the two view points more than the fact that it said "men, mer, and beast can mate."

dtm_samuraib16_ESO

Xundiin wrote: »

Elebeth wrote: »

@Xundiin

Did you just linked an entire site as a source? That's not how it works.
Relevant info here - Search "Humanoid Races"
Do something like that ^

Are "In-game savants" NPCs?

Anyway;

Of relevance here is: "On the other hand, Imperial scholars consider Men, Elves, and Beastmen as 'men,' on the basis that individuals of all three groups can mate with one another."
And yet we don't have a single example of a Betmer-Men offspring, we have one case of Orc-Men offspring and a confirmed Men-Mer "relationships".

To me the paragraph "On the other hand, Imperial scholars consider Men, Elves, and Beastmen as 'men,' on the basis that individuals of all three groups can mate with one another." just looks like a poor counter argument to "Elves consider themselves the only 'truly human race,' being descended directly from the gods, and regard the Manish and Beast races as highly intelligent animals.".

I still stand by Mer-Men yes, Betmer-Men no.
How are you suppose to impregnate someone that lays eggs and requires Hist blessing?

P.S. Seriously, what are "In-game Savants"?

That's official lore from the offical lore collection site. You'd have to dig through every NPC and back grounds and what not to find an example. But I'm fairly certain that there is a Khajiit child that has a human father. In fact I'm sure I've ran across a book or quest NPC random NPC that has mentioned this. As far as Argonians, I'm not buying they can inter-species breed either. But since they are not the only beast race... the statement that beast races and humans/mer can have children still stands.

As far as Elves go, Elves are very anti-mixing of blood. So it's not hard to believe that mixing species with any of the elf races is rare. So why would the statment that Elves see them selves as superior and wouldn't bother tainting the pure blood a reason to explain why mer/men and beast couldn't mate and have children. It's ideology vs biology.

Come on, really?
DNA/RNA would not allow this, for one, otherwise there is, especially with lizard types, the incompatibility of sexual organs.
And no, they are NOT aliens based on silicone lifeforms.

Xundiin

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

Xundiin wrote: »

Elebeth wrote: »

@Xundiin

Did you just linked an entire site as a source? That's not how it works.
Relevant info here - Search "Humanoid Races"
Do something like that ^

Are "In-game savants" NPCs?

Anyway;

Of relevance here is: "On the other hand, Imperial scholars consider Men, Elves, and Beastmen as 'men,' on the basis that individuals of all three groups can mate with one another."
And yet we don't have a single example of a Betmer-Men offspring, we have one case of Orc-Men offspring and a confirmed Men-Mer "relationships".

To me the paragraph "On the other hand, Imperial scholars consider Men, Elves, and Beastmen as 'men,' on the basis that individuals of all three groups can mate with one another." just looks like a poor counter argument to "Elves consider themselves the only 'truly human race,' being descended directly from the gods, and regard the Manish and Beast races as highly intelligent animals.".

I still stand by Mer-Men yes, Betmer-Men no.
How are you suppose to impregnate someone that lays eggs and requires Hist blessing?

P.S. Seriously, what are "In-game Savants"?

That's official lore from the offical lore collection site. You'd have to dig through every NPC and back grounds and what not to find an example. But I'm fairly certain that there is a Khajiit child that has a human father. In fact I'm sure I've ran across a book or quest NPC random NPC that has mentioned this. As far as Argonians, I'm not buying they can inter-species breed either. But since they are not the only beast race... the statement that beast races and humans/mer can have children still stands.

As far as Elves go, Elves are very anti-mixing of blood. So it's not hard to believe that mixing species with any of the elf races is rare. So why would the statment that Elves see them selves as superior and wouldn't bother tainting the pure blood a reason to explain why mer/men and beast couldn't mate and have children. It's ideology vs biology.

Come on, really?
DNA/RNA would not allow this, for one, otherwise there is, especially with lizard types, the incompatibility of sexual organs.
And no, they are NOT aliens based on silicone lifeforms.

./facepalm

Stop trying to pull real world logic into a world with magic, dragons, and elves. it doesn't work. It will never work since in that world. Magic trumps what ever science you could even remotely try to explain.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO

So, i will not.
Please enlighten me as to how they are made, biologically.
Since, by all means, THAT is the whole of the game.

/facewall back at you.

Xundiin

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

So, i will not.
Please enlighten me as to how they are made, biologically.
Since, by all means, THAT is the whole of the game.

/facewall back at you.

again.... /facepalm

Lore buddy.... there is tons of it.... like literally tons.

Out of all the races you can play and are discussed in this thread Argonians are the only species not born of Nirn.... there are from a different dimension which is why they are more than likely not compatible with the other races of Nirn.

In some lore books Khajiit are descendants of Elves..... I'll let that sink in. So yeah... Elves and men can have children and since Khajiit are descendants of elves...... Oh wow!!! that means they can have inter-species children too. Even if you don't agree with those books Khajiit are still a humanoid species that is born of Nirn. And have sub -species that look identical to Bosmer..... I'll let that sink if as well.


So yeah.. what was it you said... oh /facewall (ROFLMAO) back at ya.

Elebeth

Xundiin wrote: »

Barenziah cocked her head to one side quizzically. "They say Dark Elven women are pro-- pro-- something. Prostitutes?" she said, although she was dubious.

"You mean promiscuous. Although some do become prostitutes, I suppose," Katisha said as an afterthought. "Elves are promiscuous when they're young. But you'll outgrow it. Perhaps you're beginning to already," she added hopefully. She liked Barenziah, had grown to be quite fond of her. "You ought to meet some nice Elven boys, though. If you go on keeping company with Khajiits and humans and what have you, you'll find yourself pregnant in next to no time."

Barenziah smiled involuntarily at the thought. "I'd like that. I think. But it would be inconvenient, wouldn't it? Babies are a lot of trouble, and I don't even have my own house yet."

That's a direct quote from http://uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Real_Barenziah,_v_2

This hints at mer and at least Khajiit being able to have children. Also, the moon cycle really wouldn't be an issue since either the mother is Khajiit or not and since the child is the race of the mother it would still follow the moon cycles and such, nothing would change except maybe the child would have different eyes or less cat like ears. Remember traits are very minor and have little to no real changes on the child.

Also, I want to point out when quoting some of these in game books, make sure you look at copies from before morrowind since they've been changed to be less graphic so they could keep their rating down. For example, Daggerfall in game books of The Real Barenziah is much more detailed in sexual promiscuity than the versions that come after Morrowind.

No, this could hint that she will become pregnant faster than usual and the sentence "Constant pairing with a human has brought you early to fertility" from part 6 confirms this.
And yes, I'm aware of "uncensored" version. The sex scene with a Khajiit at the inn doesn't prove anything except that you can have sex with other species. We are trying to figure out if those two species could have an offspring.
Furthermore, why is it that we have no (or at least haven't found) a single reference of Betmer "hybrids" while we have so many examples of inter-species copulation?

Xundiin wrote: »

Because you called it a weaker argument to what elves see themselves as compared to what the Imperial Scholars see. What that passage was suppose to do was show that men, mer, and beast could mate. Which you didn't take it as that. it looked more like you where arguing towards the ideology of the two view points more than the fact that it said "men, mer, and beast can mate."

One side said that they and they alone are "people" and everyone else is an "animal" without providing single fact (typical Mer propaganda) and the other side countered that by saying that they are all equal because they can interbreed. Second argument has proof in Bretons but nothing past that.
So propaganda was fought with a fact that contained deliberate fallacy to point the fact and ridicule "racism". That is the most logical explanation I see.

Xundiin wrote: »

There's nothing to debate. The Imperial Library is the recognized official lore collection site not only by fans of TES but Bethesda themselves. They've done interviews with the "head librarian" (can't remember her name) that keeps up with all the lore and such.

Go google and read few things along the lines of "Elder Scrolls and Official Lore/Canon", then come back here and say again that there's nothing to debate.

Selique

Here you go: Roleplayers debate this very topic all the time. http://teso-rp.com/forum/m/9324623/viewthread/27275914-halfargonians/post/118753337#p118753337

Now, one guy in particular notes why Khajiit can interbreed with Mer and Men. At the last post:

Now, this is where it gets a bit more tricky. Men and elves are descended from the divine, but there are other creatures on Nirn: the true native inhabitants, created by the aedra, and not descended from them, that make up the very wide diversity that are the Betmer (the Beast-folk. Mer may be in the name, but they are not truly related to elves, they share no blood). These true natives of Nirn are in no way related to men or elves, and the vast majority of them have different reproductive cycles that make it difficult, if not impossible, for the unrelated men and elves to breed with them. There are a very limited few that are thought to be able to inter-breed with men and elves, and among these are the khajiit, but they are a special case, as khajiit are descended from the same aldmer bloodline that split in two during the forming of Valenwood and Elsweyr: Azurah binding some of those mer to the lunar lattice, creating the khajiit, and Yffre taking some of those mer and sealing their body shapes into the bosmer. It's tricky to assume khajiit can interbreed with men and elves, but it IS thought possible, given how one of the khajiiti forms when they are born when there are no moons out is basically a slightly shorter form of bosmer. Another that is known to be able to inter-breed is the giant, though how this is possible is unknown, as there are several contradicting accounts that giants may be a native betmer, or an offshoot relative of men and elves, but this is just conjecture. Other than that, there are few to no accounts of interbreeding between men/mer and betmer, and argonian half-breeds are considered highly unlikely, if not impossible. The argonians, unlike khajiit, share no relation with men or elves, and their reproductive processes are entirely different.

I'm fairly certain this is found in the established lore we have, but its always good to double check these things :P.

ConeOfSilence

The topic's that pop up when the server is down LoLz