Would you like a Nightmare mode?

Strider_Roshin

A mode that is so difficult that it actually requires a dedicated healer and tank? With a 2 gold key reward system, and an increased drop rate for dungeon sets (including the monster helmet)?

Resipsa131

No

I'd rather have mechanics and skill adjustments that require a healer and tank

phermitgb

No

honestly, with the versatility of character design in ESO, I don't particularly feel the need for requiring dungeons to have a dedicated anything - tank, heal, dps or otherwise. Now, I will admit, it's important to me that game mechanics reward something besides *JUST* dps, but I don't see the need for DEDICATED healers that can't dps, or DEDICATED tanks that can't heal - I'm perfectly fine with game mechanics that required/rewarded EVERYONE for having some tanking ability, some healing ability, and some dps ability...

interesting - I think I just described ESO.

ESO, between two weapon swaps and the relative versatility of class skills and equipment skills and other skills, really does allow someone to build a hybrid dps/heal build, a tank/dps build, etc - now, while none of these builds will be as strong in any one area as a *dedicated* tank or dpser, I don't feel any particular need for *dedicated* roles - I'm perfectly fine with a game that rewards hybridized roles

so, short answer - no. I don't feel the need for an increased difficulty mode that *requires* dedicated roles. I would just like to make sure that ALL roles have a useful place in the game, and so far, I've found ESO quite satisfying in that regard

Peekachu99

No

Considering it took 5 separate groups just to get competent people who could clear today's super easy pledge: no.

I'm not saying Zen should cater to stupidity, but they should discourage it by teaching people the basics of their roles through NPC tutorials or something.

Wollust

Yes

Well it wouldn't really matter I guess.
The "can't be asked to do hard content" faction would just demand nerfs again, as we have seen for ICP and WGT (not that they were really difficult to begin with) and whatever else.

Ackwalan

Turn off your CP, wear white gear (or no gear) that is far below your level. Nightmare mode enabled, without a major revamp.

Strider_Roshin

Yes

Ackwalan wrote: »

Turn off your CP, wear white gear (or no gear) that is far below your level. Nightmare mode enabled, without a major revamp.

Or how about content that tests my mettle rather than do all the content naked. Btw this is already being done. The issue with doing V16 VWGT naked is that it shouldn't be possible to do, but it is.

Wollust

Yes

Ackwalan wrote: »

Turn off your CP, wear white gear (or no gear) that is far below your level. Nightmare mode enabled, without a major revamp.

That suggestion is as valid as telling someone who can't finish it to simply "git gud" or "l2p"

bloodenragedb14_ESO

Yes

maybe not as difficult as a 'nightmare' but i would not be opposed to separate instances of pve zones that had increased difficulty. Just keep them PVE, raise the difficulty to a level that a brain dead monkey could not hope to beat, and id be happy

Ackwalan

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

Turn off your CP, wear white gear (or no gear) that is far below your level. Nightmare mode enabled, without a major revamp.

Or how about content that tests my mettle rather than do all the content naked. Btw this is already being done. The issue with doing V16 VWGT naked is that it shouldn't be possible to do, but it is.

Wollust wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

Turn off your CP, wear white gear (or no gear) that is far below your level. Nightmare mode enabled, without a major revamp.

That suggestion is as valid as telling someone who can't finish it to simply "git gud" or "l2p"

Do you want a challenge, or just big DPS numbers?

Nifty2g

Yes

phermitgb wrote: »

honestly, with the versatility of character design in ESO, I don't particularly feel the need for requiring dungeons to have a dedicated anything - tank, heal, dps or otherwise. Now, I will admit, it's important to me that game mechanics reward something besides *JUST* dps, but I don't see the need for DEDICATED healers that can't dps, or DEDICATED tanks that can't heal - I'm perfectly fine with game mechanics that required/rewarded EVERYONE for having some tanking ability, some healing ability, and some dps ability...

interesting - I think I just described ESO.

ESO, between two weapon swaps and the relative versatility of class skills and equipment skills and other skills, really does allow someone to build a hybrid dps/heal build, a tank/dps build, etc - now, while none of these builds will be as strong in any one area as a *dedicated* tank or dpser, I don't feel any particular need for *dedicated* roles - I'm perfectly fine with a game that rewards hybridized roles

so, short answer - no. I don't feel the need for an increased difficulty mode that *requires* dedicated roles. I would just like to make sure that ALL roles have a useful place in the game, and so far, I've found ESO quite satisfying in that regard

I'll post my original idea in regards to your comment

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/216675/concept-eso-pve-nightmare-heroic-mode/p1

This thread and idea is for the players that like a challenge, that want difficult content and player separation from what it is now, because I believe the competitive PvE competition is a dying age hard to revive what it once was due to all of the nerfing content to suit the more casual player. Which is understandable but also HIGHLY discouraging for new players to progress in an MMO with a bright future looking to progress. I believe this concept is an extremely healthy idea for Zenimax to look into, yes I know your team is limited but this would be an amazing thing to provide

The Concept

Currently as it stands Normal and Veteran are too far of a gap between each other, Normal Mode is designed for a new player looking to progress his or her build and start to get into raiding and group content, as it is right now Normal Mode is far too easy for every single player, the damage output of enemies is far too weak against the damage output by you, you are easily able to outdamage them and kill them, and you can do it in pretty much any build. This type of design I believe discourages a new player and gives them false hope so in turn they decide "hey guys lets try Veteran out" after jumping into Veteran Mode straight from Normal Mode, the difference is massive, and I mean really massive, new players struggle and it causes a bad benchmark from that sort of play style jump. Normal Mode should be harder, and Veteran Mode should be a little easier in comparison.

Veteran Mode is designed for the players who have been around for awhile, this has been said many times before. However, this becomes a huge problem because of Zenimax's Philosophy to match content to the larger audience, being and always will be the less *hardcore* type of player. I believe this is where the main problem starts, having content from one Party be nerfed for the other Party to complete, this causes many gameplay clashes and also prevents character and build progression for new players who try to pursue it.

Thus because of this I believe we should introduce a new mode called Nightmare Mode to keep the two parties split and to have an even and productive character progression model. Having the difficultly jump from Normal > Veteran > Nightmare should be manageable yet challenging, for all parties and those trying to better themselves at the game.

What Nightmare Mode Is

The basic construction of Nightmare Mode will be a considerable increase of Veteran Mode, there will be no new mechanics, no new boss fights, nothing extra to do, it will simply increase the Damage Output on Enemies and their Maximum Health, Damage Shields, Elemental Resistance, Critical Resistance and Critical Chance. This would challenge players to learn to move around, to block attacks, and to rethink their build as a whole learning how to sustain their damage, how to sustain their stat resource pools and their reaction times. This mode should not have nerfed damage it should not be touched and modified to fit the casual playerbase it should remain as a benchmark and an achievement to complete this mode for all dungeons and trials.

Not only have we seen many changes to Dungeons and Trials we have also seen changes to how Death Penalties work, this is one of the most discouraging thing Zenimax has ever changed in terms of competitive gameplay, removing death penalties promotes such an unhealthy playstyle and unhealthy competition, promoting how it is okay to die and there is no punishment for it, no life lost, just 1,000 repair bill when your gear decides to break.

Nightmare Mode For Dungeons

There isn't much challenge in dungeons at this current time it's mainly going in for a daily and destroying all of the bosses for a unique item set which ends up being deconstructed for the Style Materials. So to make things interesting for Dungeon Nightmare Mode I would suggest adding in a life counter similar to how Trials Works, or a Dungeon Timer which would be a unique way of having players maximizing their damage to try to complete the dungeon in a certain amount of time to be rewarded with a chance of getting a Legendary Item to drop on the Last Boss if you complete it within that time limit.

Nightmare Mode For Trials

Over the time since Craglorn has been out we have seen a lot of changes to Trials from how they orginially were, for example the decreased Life Counter used to be 32, that was exetremly hard to complete content with, especially Sanctum Ophidia, and the challenge was so great it took a few months to be able to beat the Trial, at least for me and the people I had played with at the time and all the other Top Guilds. I would also propose that Nightmare Mode would include a Death Penalty similar to how it used to be, adding 5 minutes to your overall score but maybe reducing your overall score by 500 points per death.

Nightmare Mode For Dragonstar Arena

Dragonstar Arena would have possibly been the most successful and most unique PvE content ESO will have, the idea is great it causes a lot of teamwork and class balancing to get the best results, the one thing I would suggest for Dragonstar Arena Nightmare Mode would be to give a Timer similar to Dungeons, and to decrease the overall lives that you had, possibly setting a benchmark for each round to be completed in a certain amount of time to recieve a special reward at the end of each round that would be a Legendary Item from Footman, Healer or Master Weapon.

Risk and Reward

Much like many games it becomes a problem when one party is able to complete content and get far superior gear being geared out and flying through content, so since Nightmare Mode has a lot of risk to it, it would need healthy rewards and because the content is the same as what a Veteran Mode would be my suggestion would be to make all of the gear within Trials drop Legendary, this would also be unique because we don't see this in ESO, we have never seen Legendary Items drop, only from weekly rewards it is also a great incentive to keep running content to try and get Legendary Materials.

Another idea being suggested is to add in vanity items such as Skins and Mounts to reduce the need to feel Overpowered compare to the players unable to complete, thanks @Aerieth @PBpsy for the idea

Wollust

Yes

Ackwalan wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

Turn off your CP, wear white gear (or no gear) that is far below your level. Nightmare mode enabled, without a major revamp.

Or how about content that tests my mettle rather than do all the content naked. Btw this is already being done. The issue with doing V16 VWGT naked is that it shouldn't be possible to do, but it is.

Wollust wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

Turn off your CP, wear white gear (or no gear) that is far below your level. Nightmare mode enabled, without a major revamp.

That suggestion is as valid as telling someone who can't finish it to simply "git gud" or "l2p"

Do you want a challenge, or just big DPS numbers?

You just don't get it.

khele23eb17_ESO

If you think balance complaints are common now... I cant imagine the forums with nightmare mode. Obviously NM would provide better rewards and the only way to get those would be to min-max the crap out of characters and groups. 'Oh, youre a stamblade and your buddy is a sorc? Thats cute. Why dont you two queue for silver.'

LadyNalcarya

Yes

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

If you think balance complaints are common now... I cant imagine the forums with nightmare mode. Obviously NM would provide better rewards and the only way to get those would be to min-max the crap out of characters and groups. 'Oh, youre a stamblade and your buddy is a sorc? Thats cute. Why dont you two queue for silver.'

But difficulty has nothing to do with balance issues and "play as you want" stuff.
Dark Souls, for example, is truly "play as you want". You can beat the whole game without leveling, even pvp with lvl 1 char against higher levels and win, you can use any gear setup you can think of - there's plenty of videos of naked runs, and one guy even did a DS2 walkthrough with a broken ladle as a weapon on highest possible difficulty. But this game is not a cakewalk compared to many modern games.
ESO has multiple problems in this regard: firstly, its obvious balance issues, and secondly, its a very vocal part of playerbase that thinks that "play as you want" means "play with permanent tgm".
Also, who in their right mind would pug for highest difficulty challenges?

Oompuh

No

Or we can make vet dungeons hard and stop nerfing them

arena25

Yes

Nightmare mode is probably a good idea, but it would need to be thought out.

I say yes, but I need more explanation. Can you elaborate, @Strider_Roshin ?

Yinmaigao

No

While in theory it seems cool, it would just create yet another rift between players.

We would move to a "caste system" of may have X CP or no invite, tiered approach to who interacts with whom, and all having competing goals: Normal, Heroic, Nightmare "tiers" (with PvP mixed in somewhere....

We don't need to segregate even more.

That was the entire point of the "no DPS meters, no inspect option" movement. Granted, ZoS derp'd hard by showing CP over 160.

TLDR: this will create more segregation and elitism, and that's bad. Mkay?

failkiwib16_ESO

Yes

@Nifty2g I'm a bit split on this matter...

Keeping things simple and easy makes a lot of experienced players mingle and use the grouping tool to get through their pledges.

I mean when I do dungeon runs with my new guildies, use the grouping tool or pug - I usually join as a dps to increase the chances of success. I can't always save or carry 3 people through a veteran dungeon, if I focus on keeping them alive...

Giving the option for a nightmare mode would perhaps change this balance, and create a gap/ segregation between the already experienced players who are social enough to have a network of friends and guildies they can do runs with - and leave the rest of Tamriel to their own ..like we already have for trials, where only the best teams are attempting veteran Maw of Lorkhaj because most trial groups can't even get past the first adds that have more hitpoints than any group dungeon boss could dream off.

On the other side I'm so bored of this current difficulty - I joined veteran Fungal Grotto goldpledge today with half passives and no champion points - I died 5-6 times through the endboss fight while my team killed the boss. What slowed them down was ressurrecting my drunk noob elf all the time >.<

I would like a bit more challenge and a reason for me to do group dungeons whithout it being "helping" someone. I carry 340 goldkeys in my inventory and I have enough monster helmets with proper traits to dress up my whole guild.

Nifty2g

Yes

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

@Nifty2g I'm a bit split on this matter...

Keeping things simple and easy makes a lot of experienced players mingle and use the grouping tool to get through their pledges.

I mean when I do dungeon runs with my new guildies, use the grouping tool or pug - I usually join as a dps to increase the chances of success. I can't always save or carry 3 people through a veteran dungeon, if I focus on keeping them alive...

Giving the option for a nightmare mode would perhaps change this balance, and create a gap/ segregation between the already experienced players who are social enough to have a network of friends and guildies they can do runs with - and leave the rest of Tamriel to their own ..like we already have for trials, where only the best teams are attempting veteran Maw of Lorkhaj because most trial groups can't even get past the first adds that have more hitpoints than any group dungeon boss could dream off.

On the other side I'm so bored of this current difficulty - I joined veteran Fungal Grotto goldpledge today with half passives and no champion points - I died 5-6 times through the endboss fight while my team killed the boss. What slowed them down was ressurrecting my drunk noob elf all the time >.<

I would like a bit more challenge and a reason for me to do group dungeons whithout it being "helping" someone. I carry 340 goldkeys in my inventory and I have enough monster helmets with proper traits to dress up my whole guild.

I want 3 modes to create a learning curve for everyone.
Right now its terrible, you got normal mode and veteran mode.
There is a massive jump between them

LadyNalcarya

Yes

Yinmaigao wrote: »

While in theory it seems cool, it would just create yet another rift between players.

We would move to a "caste system" of may have X CP or no invite, tiered approach to who interacts with whom, and all having competing goals: Normal, Heroic, Nightmare "tiers" (with PvP mixed in somewhere....

We don't need to segregate even more.

That was the entire point of the "no DPS meters, no inspect option" movement. Granted, ZoS derp'd hard by showing CP over 160.

TLDR: this will create more segregation and elitism, and that's bad. Mkay?

Caste tiers? Its pretty simple - if you dont like challenges, then dont join. If you think that not beating specific content on specific difficulty makes you a worse person or something, its in your head.
Besides, those feared "elitists" in pugs are just average players who happen to be more entitled than others. If they were as good as they claim to be, they wouldnt need to bother with trying to assemle some kind of "super pug", they would've had a guild to play with.

Sleep

i want a "you only live once" mode so I don't have to manually delete my characters

Yinmaigao

No

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Yinmaigao wrote: »

While in theory it seems cool, it would just create yet another rift between players.

We would move to a "caste system" of may have X CP or no invite, tiered approach to who interacts with whom, and all having competing goals: Normal, Heroic, Nightmare "tiers" (with PvP mixed in somewhere....

We don't need to segregate even more.

That was the entire point of the "no DPS meters, no inspect option" movement. Granted, ZoS derp'd hard by showing CP over 160.

TLDR: this will create more segregation and elitism, and that's bad. Mkay?

Caste tiers? Its pretty simple - if you dont like challenges, then dont join. If you think that not beating specific content on specific difficulty makes you a worse person or something, its in your head.
Besides, those feared "elitists" in pugs are just average players who happen to be more entitled than others. If they were as good as they claim to be, they wouldnt need to bother with trying to assemle some kind of "super pug", they would've had a guild to play with.

Except it's not that simple.

Have you not seen all the qq about vMA? All the constant calls for nerfs?

It isn't about "fear of elitists" (I have been called one on more than one occasion...). This is about the health of the game.

Human nature is to go after the best. If you tell someone that simply changing the mode will mean better gear, that is what the populous will do. it would be cool if everyone worked on honor and stayed in "their difficulty teir", but that is not how it works.

Tons of posts on the forums about failed groups, bad dungeon finder, stuff too hard, people not know what to do etc...

IMO, before the introduce any more difficult content, they need to introduce a training system to help teach people the basics (the ten min intro in Prisons is garbage, plus, you skip it on every other new character). Without a way to assess and correct, you are just asking for more grief from/in "lower-to-middle class" players.

Even if this was implemented, it would likely be half-assed at best, leaving everyone unsatisfied.

mrdankles

No

It already exists. Console grouping..

greylox

Yes

Yes absolutely, even pugs in vet dungeons with a bit of know-how can faceroll them.

Oompuh

No

mrdankles wrote: »

It already exists. Console grouping..

I've never realized how hard a dungeon was until I played with group finder. I dont think 90% of Console ESO knows what theyre doing

LegacyDM

Yes

Pledges too easy. Reward would have to be increased to match difficulty though.

phobossion

Yes

I would rather see the current normal/vet mode fixed to require support roles, but seeing the game is heading in the opposite direction this would give us at least something...

Ch4mpTW

I'd like a "nightmare mode" for difficulty typing, only if it'll increase the drop-rate and XP received. Kind of like "torment difficulty" settings in Diablo 3. The higher the difficulty, the higher chance you have at receiving better drops. Plus you gain a certain % more XP.

So for example, nightmare mode would enable a 100% chance of Maelstrom weapons dropping. Something like that.

Woeler

Yes

It doesn't matter. Because people will start complaining as always. They simply think that by buying the game they are entitled to completing everything with low effort and ridiculous builds. Look at wgt and icp, they were perfect in the beginning. Then the l2p crowd started yelling and there you go, nerfed to death.

It won't matter what they do the l2p crowd thinks they are entitled to everything without any serious effort.

peniku8

Yes

Run with randoms, there you go. Nightmare mode, literally

I would enjoy having an extra hardmode for dungeons because the daily goldkey runs are just boring as hell now.
We just get more and more dps and doing bosses with a groupdps of 100k is just disappointing since most bosses die, even before mechanics go off.
It should be a mix of
-enemies got more HP/resistance
-enemies do more dmg but don't randomly one shot you all the time
-there are mechanics which can't be ignored (like MoL, it has some nice mechanics) to prevent brainless nuking
-maybe a split section of a dungeon where everybody has to solo a certain part (would be a cool idea imo, compare it to AA)
and so on, I'm sure that the community would gladly come up with awesome ideas

What bothers me is that they took away the last three dungeons which were a bit more difficult than others, IMO prison was the hardest dungeon and still challenging if you were going for a no death run. Now beetles don't even oneshot you anymore when there are two. Nerfing stuff is no problem as long as some content for experienced players remains, now we got no 4 man content anymore.
As my poll shows, 80% didn't like the changes made to the three dungeons
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3036664
Why doesn't ZOS make polls in the forum before updating stuff, that would prevent stuff like this happening...

AmberLaTerra

No

No let's see them fix the current system with roles and such first before they roll out another tier that will be just as broken for roles and cause just as much complaining here on the forums due to the system of roles not working properly.