Nerf radiant destruction

kewl

Korah_Eaglecry

Aisle9 wrote: »

Aleraon wrote: »

Same "old" video doing the rounds. I wish someone would make proper one showing gear and mitigation in all the tests. Anyone can wear only a costume and have radiant cast on them which, unlike the other executes, is a channeled execute. Anyone who's health goes down that fast to it is clearly not wearing gear that would otherwise mitigate the damage.

I have full impen armor, (5 light, 1heavy, 1 med), 15k spell res, and that's what shows in the death recap, so, I'd say it's pretty accurate with a casual set of armor (not a specific "tanky" setup).

That said, I rest my case, it's a channeled cast, and it's fairly long. LoS it, parry it, bash it, charge the caster, get out of range, outheal it, cloak it, whatever.

The only instance where you risk high with RD is when you're running from 20 people and, at that point, RD is the least of your worries, because 20 people spamming light attacks will probably kill you anyways...

Just saying

NERF LIGHT ATTACKS! Youve seen it here folks. Light Attack is OP and needs the Almight Nerf Hammer. If we dont nip this in the bud right now we're going to be facing light attacking zergs for days in PvP!

Alurria

Let's just nerf pvp and while we're at pve too. Oh wait...hmm

leepalmer95

Radiant shouldn't be dodgeable. Like every other execute is. Make is dodge roll able again. It's start to putting it more in lime with other executes.

Don't see the reason why it's dodgeable in the first place.

Thornen

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Radiant shouldn't be dodgeable. Like every other execute is. Make is dodge roll able again. It's start to putting it more in lime with other executes.

Don't see the reason why it's dodgeable in the first place.

+1 no more qq if you can dodgeroll this, can't interrupt someone hitting you from 42 meters away while your fighting 5 other ppl.

Eiagra

This is just going in circles.

Perhaps a developer could chime in with some metrics?

americansteel

Axorn wrote: »

And i know templars are going to QQ in here like they always do since launch, i think templars QQ more than playing their game on forums, templar was always a powerful class but they QQed non stop and ZoS gave you a OP kill button it was like STF*U

Templars have gotten crapped on since release!

as a templar who uses this so called OP ability all i can say is block!

magplars are a joke along with magknights.

Epona222

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

I do not care about the damage Radiant produces. The only issue i have with the ability, is the ability to "preload" on your target. For instance, ill be 100% health and someone will start channeling Radiant on me, all it takes is a couple people to gap close me and get me to 50% health then its instant death.

If i could change one aspect of the ability, it would be to make it not possible to use the ability until your target it as 50% health.

Just my 2 cents on this topic.

That just sounds like a small group working well together.

Eweroun

cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »

I wonder on what platform all these murderous hordes of Templars using Jezuz Beam to blow up entire zergs are playing. Certainly not on EU-PC, it rarely ever even shows up on my death recaps.

you know, we're already past that stage... other platforms were launched after us...

Guys, one day you 'll understand it's not to be nerfed..
with my templar i usually don't use it... the moment i think "I should use oppression"; I already jabbed them down...
(pls, don't start a treat 'jabs are OP' now)

maxjapank

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Radiant shouldn't be dodgeable. Like every other execute is. Make is dodge roll able again. It's start to putting it more in lime with other executes.

Don't see the reason why it's dodgeable in the first place.

derp derp derp...We've been over and over this already. There are good reasons why it isn't dodgeable. There are good reasons why executes are different. ...derp derp derp

Eweroun

Can we please already make a list in which order we're going to ask skills to be nerfed??
I can't follow all these treat's spawning so quickly from the oblivion planes..

Eweroun

Thornen wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Radiant shouldn't be dodgeable. Like every other execute is. Make is dodge roll able again. It's start to putting it more in lime with other executes.

Don't see the reason why it's dodgeable in the first place.

+1 no more qq if you can dodgeroll this, can't interrupt someone hitting you from 42 meters away while your fighting 5 other ppl.

in fact when you're fighting 5 people, it'll be very very hard for the poor templar to aim at you from that distance...
except when those 5 people can't play and are standing all at one side

KingYogi415

Will the carebears please just move on to another game?

I recommend NeoPets!

mistermutiny89

Well you Stam builds dodge and reflect everything else.

Jesus beam is love, Jesus beam is life!

NikaTheCat

People really need to have some constructive arguments when they ask to nerf something. Arguments like "This skill is OP, nerf it!" are just empty words. You really have to give us some evidence and explanation why the said skill is OP. If you do not, people will just agree or disagree, but things will never change.
I do think that Jesus Beam is a strong execute, probably the strongest in the game, however I don't think it needs a nerf. My opinion about it does not matter, however. If somebody provided some constructive evidence then my opinion could change. The same goes for ZOS. If you want change, you should prepare some arguments to back up your statements. Random videos and death recaps are also worthless without context.

Let's discuss the provided evidence of Jesus Beam OP-ness (innuendo implied):

Dubhliam wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em46ajNfuTU

Here we see all the executes compared. Radiant Destruction clearly wins. However, we can just dismiss this evidence, because there is just too little information provided.

But why Mr. Cat? Are you blind? You can see that the Jesus beam is OP!!

Well I'm glad you asked, Billy. There are several problems with this test:

• 4 executes are performed by 3 different characters. This is of course inevitable, because 3 of the executes are exclusive class abilities. But to actually compare the skills all the testing attackers have to use the same gear, CP and ideally have the same race (or disable racial passives). The chars in the video may well be using the similar builds, but we just don't know that. How can we know that the first 2 characters were not using lvl 1 white gear and no CP? I'm exaggerating for the sake of an argument.
• The max health of the victim in the Jesus Beam example is less than in other examples. This suggests that the build has changed, if only slightly. Again not really fair, as we don't see what changed.
• The Jesus Beam example is the only one that has a Major Sorcery buff applied before it via Structured Entropy AND the Empower buff (20% more damage to the next attack) via Mages Guild passive Might of the Guild. I mean, seriously, what is up with that?

Another evidence

Bashev wrote: »

I play with 7 heavy 36k resistance buffed, 2k critical resistance. Please check the damage of this OP skill.

Eat this Mr. Cat. Disprove the 17,5k Jesus Beam!

Well, you see, Billy, it's 17,5k over time , not 17,5k burst. We can't really tell how long the Beam lasted in the 1st and the 3rd picture, but we can assume that the 2nd picture shows a full finished 3 second Jesus Beam, because it is followed by another one after. It could have been cancelled of course, but we can't tell that.
If we assume it wasn't cancelled, then it is 12,5k damage over 3 seconds, which is ~4k DPS. 4k DPS is very low.
Also we must mention that the victim has at least 3 people kicking on him/her at the same time. If one of them casts a Radiant while others are keeping him/her at low health, it's no wonder that RD (or any other execute) hits hard. It's what executes are meant for.

Also I have one question that I don't know the answer to. Does death recap show only the damage you recieved or the full damage of an ability. What I mean to ask is, if I have a 2k health left and Bumnog hits me in the face with his bare fist for 10k damage, do I see 2k damage in my death recap or 10k?

Bashev

Bashev wrote: »

I play with 7 heavy 36k resistance buffed, 2k critical resistance. Please check the damage of this OP skill.

NikaTheCat wrote: »

People really need to have some constructive arguments when they ask to nerf something. Arguments like "This skill is OP, nerf it!" are just empty words. You really have to give us some evidence and explanation why the said skill is OP. If you do not, people will just agree or disagree, but things will never change.
I do think that Jesus Beam is a strong execute, probably the strongest in the game, however I don't think it needs a nerf. My opinion about it does not matter, however. If somebody provided some constructive evidence then my opinion could change. The same goes for ZOS. If you want change, you should prepare some arguments to back up your statements. Random videos and death recaps are also worthless without context.

Let's discuss the provided evidence of Jesus Beam OP-ness (innuendo implied):

Dubhliam wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em46ajNfuTU

Here we see all the executes compared. Radiant Destruction clearly wins. However, we can just dismiss this evidence, because there is just too little information provided.

But why Mr. Cat? Are you blind? You can see that the Jesus beam is OP!!

Well I'm glad you asked, Billy. There are several problems with this test:

• 4 executes are performed by 3 different characters. This is of course inevitable, because 3 of the executes are exclusive class abilities. But to actually compare the skills all the testing attackers have to use the same gear, CP and ideally have the same race (or disable racial passives). The chars in the video may well be using the similar builds, but we just don't know that. How can we know that the first 2 characters were not using lvl 1 white gear and no CP? I'm exaggerating for the sake of an argument.
• The max health of the victim in the Jesus Beam example is less than in other examples. This suggests that the build has changed, if only slightly. Again not really fair, as we don't see what changed.
• The Jesus Beam example is the only one that has a Major Sorcery buff applied before it via Structured Entropy AND the Empower buff (20% more damage to the next attack) via Mages Guild passive Might of the Guild. I mean, seriously, what is up with that?

Another evidence

Bashev wrote: »

I play with 7 heavy 36k resistance buffed, 2k critical resistance. Please check the damage of this OP skill.

Eat this Mr. Cat. Disprove the 17,5k Jesus Beam!

Well, you see, Billy, it's 17,5k over time , not 17,5k burst. We can't really tell how long the Beam lasted in the 1st and the 3rd picture, but we can assume that the 2nd picture shows a full finished 3 second Jesus Beam, because it is followed by another one after. It could have been cancelled of course, but we can't tell that.
If we assume it wasn't cancelled, then it is 12,5k damage over 3 seconds, which is ~4k DPS. 4k DPS is very low.
Also we must mention that the victim has at least 3 people kicking on him/her at the same time. If one of them casts a Radiant while others are keeping him/her at low health, it's no wonder that RD (or any other execute) hits hard. It's what executes are meant for.

Also I have one question that I don't know the answer to. Does death recap show only the damage you recieved or the full damage of an ability. What I mean to ask is, if I have a 2k health left and Bumnog hits me in the face with his bare fist for 10k damage, do I see 2k damage in my death recap or 10k?

How many executioners can you land on me in 3 seconds? I doubt you can land more than 2 in the best scenario. Did you check the damage of the executioner in my death recap? Jesus beam is cancer in Cyroddiil.

willymchilybily

americansteel wrote: »

Axorn wrote: »

And i know templars are going to QQ in here like they always do since launch, i think templars QQ more than playing their game on forums, templar was always a powerful class but they QQed non stop and ZoS gave you a OP kill button it was like STF*U

Templars have gotten crapped on since release!

as a templar who uses this so called OP ability all i can say is block!

magplars are a joke along with magknights.

Lol ive played maxed templar and its crazy good, Do you know how much stam it costs to block that radiant on a character that is already low on resources from fighting?I'm fine that it is powerful and has a lot going for it:

• 40m range in cyrodil
• Double dips from thermatauge, and elemental exp. CP. (which doesnt require specialist build as templars main dps tends to be from DOT)
• Can get oppression that increases damage based on magicka pool remaining,
• execute at 50% but really noticeable when below 40%.

Its the fact i need to LoS to survive it or be close enough to interrupt because its un-dodgeable is what make me feel it is too powerful. but then again before when you could dodge it, it sucked so hard it was worthless. so i dont know what to suggest.

Those calling, heal through it...come on what noob templars are you fighting that don't darkflare into a radiant with that major defile, and empowered for 20% more damage, you really suggest i can heal through it with a 30% reduction to my healing

maybe i need to L2P. but if you're saying to LoS, heal through it or block. I'm saying healing doesnt work, block is alright but not ideal to stand still and block unless 1v1, And no skills should have only one reliable counter when the counter is outside of my control (when sieging or riding across the map you cant always LoS).

NativeJoe

Now I have to go find a templar and have the ULTIMATE CELL GAMES style ending to a fight!

we'll go rounds, fight, and then I'll proc my maelstrom dagger, and soul strike while he radiant destructions me. Almost a perfect ending... but it's more like a Kamehameha vs a Final Flash.

Sorry for the dbz reference that obviously made a few eyes roll...but its late and thats what I was thinking of. lol

Not saying to nerf it...but RD definitely does feel like

NikaTheCat

Bashev wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

I play with 7 heavy 36k resistance buffed, 2k critical resistance. Please check the damage of this OP skill.

NikaTheCat wrote: »

People really need to have some constructive arguments when they ask to nerf something. Arguments like "This skill is OP, nerf it!" are just empty words. You really have to give us some evidence and explanation why the said skill is OP. If you do not, people will just agree or disagree, but things will never change.
I do think that Jesus Beam is a strong execute, probably the strongest in the game, however I don't think it needs a nerf. My opinion about it does not matter, however. If somebody provided some constructive evidence then my opinion could change. The same goes for ZOS. If you want change, you should prepare some arguments to back up your statements. Random videos and death recaps are also worthless without context.

Let's discuss the provided evidence of Jesus Beam OP-ness (innuendo implied):

Dubhliam wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em46ajNfuTU

Here we see all the executes compared. Radiant Destruction clearly wins. However, we can just dismiss this evidence, because there is just too little information provided.

But why Mr. Cat? Are you blind? You can see that the Jesus beam is OP!!

Well I'm glad you asked, Billy. There are several problems with this test:

• 4 executes are performed by 3 different characters. This is of course inevitable, because 3 of the executes are exclusive class abilities. But to actually compare the skills all the testing attackers have to use the same gear, CP and ideally have the same race (or disable racial passives). The chars in the video may well be using the similar builds, but we just don't know that. How can we know that the first 2 characters were not using lvl 1 white gear and no CP? I'm exaggerating for the sake of an argument.
• The max health of the victim in the Jesus Beam example is less than in other examples. This suggests that the build has changed, if only slightly. Again not really fair, as we don't see what changed.
• The Jesus Beam example is the only one that has a Major Sorcery buff applied before it via Structured Entropy AND the Empower buff (20% more damage to the next attack) via Mages Guild passive Might of the Guild. I mean, seriously, what is up with that?

Another evidence

Bashev wrote: »

I play with 7 heavy 36k resistance buffed, 2k critical resistance. Please check the damage of this OP skill.

Eat this Mr. Cat. Disprove the 17,5k Jesus Beam!

Well, you see, Billy, it's 17,5k over time , not 17,5k burst. We can't really tell how long the Beam lasted in the 1st and the 3rd picture, but we can assume that the 2nd picture shows a full finished 3 second Jesus Beam, because it is followed by another one after. It could have been cancelled of course, but we can't tell that.
If we assume it wasn't cancelled, then it is 12,5k damage over 3 seconds, which is ~4k DPS. 4k DPS is very low.
Also we must mention that the victim has at least 3 people kicking on him/her at the same time. If one of them casts a Radiant while others are keeping him/her at low health, it's no wonder that RD (or any other execute) hits hard. It's what executes are meant for.

Also I have one question that I don't know the answer to. Does death recap show only the damage you recieved or the full damage of an ability. What I mean to ask is, if I have a 2k health left and Bumnog hits me in the face with his bare fist for 10k damage, do I see 2k damage in my death recap or 10k?

How many executioners can you land on me in 3 seconds? I doubt you can land more than 2 in the best scenario. Did you check the damage of the executioner in my death recap? Jesus beam is cancer in Cyroddiil.

Well, I did say that I think it is a strong ability. My post was more about constructive arguments than anything else.
Radiant is strong, however it also has some weaknesses that other abilities do not. Two handed executioner and NB Killer's blade are fast abilities and can be used very well with animation cancelling, providing extra damage in between. RD is a channel, which makes the caster just stand around there like an idiot. It can be interrupted and it also reduces the mobility of the caster. Sorc's Endless Fury can be applied even before the target reaches the low health requirement, making it really good for burst damage. This makes the damage of the execute proc at the same time the Sorc hits you with a frag to the face, for example.
In the aforementioned video all the executes hit about once per second, actually.
Again, I'm not saying RD is weak or anything, it just has some advantages and some disadvantages. All skills are like that.

karakondzula

RD is a good ability and by itself its not overpowered. Problem is when bunch of people spam it in the same time over and over again. They should make it that one player can be affected only by one beam at the time. Only the first beam counts or something like that.

Bashev

karakondzula wrote: »

RD is a good ability and by itself its not overpowered. Problem is when bunch of people spam it in the same time over and over again. They should make it that one player can be affected only by one beam at the time. Only the first beam counts or something like that.

Thats is an excellent suggestion. But it will affect PvE and then ..... it is not going to happen.

NikaTheCat

karakondzula wrote: »

RD is a good ability and by itself its not overpowered. Problem is when bunch of people spam it in the same time over and over again. They should make it that one player can be affected only by one beam at the time. Only the first beam counts or something like that.

I see your point, but then why wouldn't we do the same for other abilities? Two or three wrecking blows to the face make for good damage as well. The thing is if you're hit by several people at a time, you should die more quickly. People often think they should be allowed to 1vX more easily, but that's pretty illogical in my opinion. If you are at war, you wouldn't say "dear enemies, please form a line and stab me one at a time, otherwise it's unfair". Enemies don't care about what's fair. That's the whole point. The only fight that is truly fair is a stalemate when nobody wins.

OK, I ramble too much. I actually wouldn't mind if there was some decrease in damage when you use RD on somebody already targeted by another RD. Maybe the execution bonus would not apply or something like that.

EDIT: Wasn't this actually working like you said in some patch, that only one RD could be applied to one target? And then they changed it? I'm not sure

Ep1kMalware

Bashev wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

I play with 7 heavy 36k resistance buffed, 2k critical resistance. Please check the damage of this OP skill.

NikaTheCat wrote: »

People really need to have some constructive arguments when they ask to nerf something. Arguments like "This skill is OP, nerf it!" are just empty words. You really have to give us some evidence and explanation why the said skill is OP. If you do not, people will just agree or disagree, but things will never change.
I do think that Jesus Beam is a strong execute, probably the strongest in the game, however I don't think it needs a nerf. My opinion about it does not matter, however. If somebody provided some constructive evidence then my opinion could change. The same goes for ZOS. If you want change, you should prepare some arguments to back up your statements. Random videos and death recaps are also worthless without context.

Let's discuss the provided evidence of Jesus Beam OP-ness (innuendo implied):

Dubhliam wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em46ajNfuTU

Here we see all the executes compared. Radiant Destruction clearly wins. However, we can just dismiss this evidence, because there is just too little information provided.

But why Mr. Cat? Are you blind? You can see that the Jesus beam is OP!!

Well I'm glad you asked, Billy. There are several problems with this test:

• 4 executes are performed by 3 different characters. This is of course inevitable, because 3 of the executes are exclusive class abilities. But to actually compare the skills all the testing attackers have to use the same gear, CP and ideally have the same race (or disable racial passives). The chars in the video may well be using the similar builds, but we just don't know that. How can we know that the first 2 characters were not using lvl 1 white gear and no CP? I'm exaggerating for the sake of an argument.
• The max health of the victim in the Jesus Beam example is less than in other examples. This suggests that the build has changed, if only slightly. Again not really fair, as we don't see what changed.
• The Jesus Beam example is the only one that has a Major Sorcery buff applied before it via Structured Entropy AND the Empower buff (20% more damage to the next attack) via Mages Guild passive Might of the Guild. I mean, seriously, what is up with that?

Another evidence

Bashev wrote: »

I play with 7 heavy 36k resistance buffed, 2k critical resistance. Please check the damage of this OP skill.

Eat this Mr. Cat. Disprove the 17,5k Jesus Beam!

Well, you see, Billy, it's 17,5k over time , not 17,5k burst. We can't really tell how long the Beam lasted in the 1st and the 3rd picture, but we can assume that the 2nd picture shows a full finished 3 second Jesus Beam, because it is followed by another one after. It could have been cancelled of course, but we can't tell that.
If we assume it wasn't cancelled, then it is 12,5k damage over 3 seconds, which is ~4k DPS. 4k DPS is very low.
Also we must mention that the victim has at least 3 people kicking on him/her at the same time. If one of them casts a Radiant while others are keeping him/her at low health, it's no wonder that RD (or any other execute) hits hard. It's what executes are meant for.

Also I have one question that I don't know the answer to. Does death recap show only the damage you recieved or the full damage of an ability. What I mean to ask is, if I have a 2k health left and Bumnog hits me in the face with his bare fist for 10k damage, do I see 2k damage in my death recap or 10k?

How many executioners can you land on me in 3 seconds? I doubt you can land more than 2 in the best scenario. Did you check the damage of the executioner in my death recap? Jesus beam is cancer in Cyroddiil.

About 2.5. My executioner in pve hits above and beyond 40-45k dmg depending on my buffs. If I hit you with it in the same exact scenario jesusbeam would be dwarfed. the sad thing is, I loose dps using it. Jesus beam, (I wish all executes were like this, --worth-using) is really the only all around viable execute in the game. Certain group orientated builds are pretty reliant on it as their primary form of dps.

On console, I can 1 shot you with my vr1 werewolf, and if I land an executroner on you at 50% or less health you better believe I'll get some alliance points for it.

Junkogen

I got hit with a 13k dark flare in Cyrodiil today. Just saying...

Bashev

Junkogen wrote: »

I got hit with a 13k dark flare in Cyrodiil today. Just saying...

Imagine if the person who hit you for 13k dark flare hit me with radian destruction. It should be 50k based on the picture.
Here the same person hit me for 4.3k dark flare and latter for 17k Jesus beam.

Lord_Eomer

Lol, nerf everything...

I will leave if this happens as instead of adding new skills killing existing..

One person die in PVP and start shouting nerf nerf!

Thornen

Eweroun wrote: »

Thornen wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Radiant shouldn't be dodgeable. Like every other execute is. Make is dodge roll able again. It's start to putting it more in lime with other executes.

Don't see the reason why it's dodgeable in the first place.

+1 no more qq if you can dodgeroll this, can't interrupt someone hitting you from 42 meters away while your fighting 5 other ppl.

in fact when you're fighting 5 people, it'll be very very hard for the poor templar to aim at you from that distance...
except when those 5 people can't play and are standing all at one side

Lol you cant use enemy players to los...

OnThaLoose

OP? No, it's not. It's powerful, sure, but also leaves the attacker wide open to attack for 3 seconds.

For all the people complaining that RD starts scaling at 50%, it doesn't start hitting hard until 25% or lower. At that point if you let yourself get that low, heal, pop healing ward, line of sight the Templar, or if your getting hit from 40 meters away, take two steps back and hey! He can't reach you anymore.

However, if you want to talk about OP skills let's talk about the Nightblade. How can one skill be high damage, instant, stun from stealth, reduce armor, increase the NBs armor (from passive). Veiled strike and its morphs are op. Or how about teleport strike? The only gap closer where you can literally be hugging your opponent and use it. Atleast TS works, ZoS makes sure not to upset NB's.

TL; DR if you nerf RD, do it in PVP only. Quit allowing pvp to ruin skills in pve, ya know it is an Elder Scrolls game...

ManDraKE

americansteel wrote: »

Axorn wrote: »

And i know templars are going to QQ in here like they always do since launch, i think templars QQ more than playing their game on forums, templar was always a powerful class but they QQed non stop and ZoS gave you a OP kill button it was like STF*U

Templars have gotten crapped on since release!

as a templar who uses this so called OP ability all i can say is block!

magplars are a joke along with magknights.

that excuse is old, templars are top noch for pvp right know, their dps is insane (burning light OP) plus they have the most powerful healing buffs of the game. There isn't a more efecttive class for 1vsX than a templar, drawnbreaker + jabs and they drop likes flies.

me_ming

Axorn wrote: »

And i know templars are going to QQ in here like they always do since launch, i think templars QQ more than playing their game on forums, templar was always a powerful class but they QQed non stop and ZoS gave you a OP kill button it was like STF*U

I'm sorry the "Nerf please" sounds more of QQ to me. lol. Are you a templar?