Believing Crafting Bags shouldn't be behind a sub wall is clearly the most outrageous belief ever.

Magenpie

@Vangy - Look, for me, it's about player contentment. I don't give two figs about what other people have in the game in relation to me. If people want ginormous shiny pauldrons that pee green waterfalls, fine. I don't want them, but if it makes them happy, on you go. I'm not going to have a conniption because it's something that's made available but I don't want them. I'm not interested in PvP either, but I don't begrudge those who are their spot in the games I play.

But I think any mmo worth it's salt should offer it's basic QoL features to all it's players. I want a variety of people playing the game, not just teenagers or merchant bankers (if you see what I mean?)

Many people seem to have read their pop-economics paperbacks, like good little soldiers, and seem to know what ZOS thinks and what ZOS is doing, but actually if you read the various press releases about how they are responding to player behaviour, it's not that clear. There's an article on IGN today discussing future content this year - player housing, the Argonian dungeons etc - and it talks about how many players dip in and out of the game, and how they want to cater to those kinds of players. It doesn't *sound* as though they are totally dedicated to the sub model.

I just think you can offer perks and advantages to all your pay models without sticking it to one or the other group. To me, the bags make the game a nicer place to be and that should be for everyone...somehow.

Boiling down the objections to this just seem to end at, "I don't want you to have the things I have. Ha ha." Which in this case, to me anyway, a bit sad and mean. It's just a bag? It makes the game nicer to play? C'mon guys...

Perhaps I'm just an old softy.

[Edits all over because I was still waking up and unable to do writins.]

Justice31st

j.j.hillsaveryb16_ESO wrote: »

The crafting bag is the first item that is truly worth your subs every month.

^This.

Justice31st

Auricle wrote: »

It is shocking to me that people are complaining about this. Subs are reliable income for ZoS. Random CS splurges when there's a crown sale aren't. Why shouldn't ZoS offer valuable incentives for their playerbase? What reason, aside from 'I want it', can you actually offer for ZoS to put a one time price tag on something as useful as the crafting bags? And why on earth would they give it to us for free? It's a pure convenience item, after all.

Personally, I want this game to be successful, to have the backing of the studio and the money to keep making great content. Call me crazy, I guess.

Seriously, though, when did gamers get so entitled? Am I just getting old or what?

^This. The subscription fees go towards ZOS's development team.

Mureel

Articulemort wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

I think they never should have gone to buy to play model and kept subs all along.

I can tell you most console players, including myself, would not buy a game with a required subscription.

If you could only acquire this game through Stream and Stream required a $15 monthly sub to play online, would you pay another $15 a month to play? You may be inclined to say yes, to prove a point, but I can't fathom paying $30 a month to play one singular game.

At this point, they should just consider giving it out free to console players to help boost their dying population. Another 6 months and this game will be dead on console. Players come back for the new dlcs, realize none of the issues got fixed and leave again. A bag may not help this, but it wouldn't hurt.

IDK why anyone would play this on console - but I am glad you can xD

Also I absolutely am over the PC side getting put out over and over because of Console stuff. You have no idea (or maybe you do?) of what we had to put up with here whilst they worked on console stuff forever.

TG and DB was supposed to be released MUCH SOONER in fact, part of original game. It got put off forever and ever because of console stuff going on.

Then after literal SPOOOOOOKY silence for like weeks from ZOS...BAM! Buy to Play & Crown Store and allllll that dropped on us all Like a BOMB from on high.

It was sickening what happened then and it was down to the terrible console launch.

So I am glad you can play and don't have to double pay for it, but seriously, I cannot find much sympathy beyond that and I do not think AT ALL that anyone should get anything free that is for people who sub.

You chose to play on console, so that is your choice. Like all choices, the consequences are yours too.

and

Magenpie

Justice31st wrote: »

Auricle wrote: »

It is shocking to me that people are complaining about this. Subs are reliable income for ZoS. Random CS splurges when there's a crown sale aren't. Why shouldn't ZoS offer valuable incentives for their playerbase? What reason, aside from 'I want it', can you actually offer for ZoS to put a one time price tag on something as useful as the crafting bags? And why on earth would they give it to us for free? It's a pure convenience item, after all.

Personally, I want this game to be successful, to have the backing of the studio and the money to keep making great content. Call me crazy, I guess.

Seriously, though, when did gamers get so entitled? Am I just getting old or what?

^This. The subscription fees go towards ZOS's development team.

Just need to point out that non-sub people don't want it for free, they just want to purchase it from the CS.

Justice31st

Tarante11a wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

Auricle wrote: »

It is shocking to me that people are complaining about this. Subs are reliable income for ZoS. Random CS splurges when there's a crown sale aren't. Why shouldn't ZoS offer valuable incentives for their playerbase? What reason, aside from 'I want it', can you actually offer for ZoS to put a one time price tag on something as useful as the crafting bags? And why on earth would they give it to us for free? It's a pure convenience item, after all.

Personally, I want this game to be successful, to have the backing of the studio and the money to keep making great content. Call me crazy, I guess.

Seriously, though, when did gamers get so entitled? Am I just getting old or what?

^This. The subscription fees go towards ZOS's development team.

Just need to point out that non-sub people don't want it for free, they just want to purchase it from the CS.

As long as the crown store purchase price is equivalent to a year+ subscription membership. ZOS would lose money if it only cost 5k.

Mureel

Tarante11a wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

Auricle wrote: »

It is shocking to me that people are complaining about this. Subs are reliable income for ZoS. Random CS splurges when there's a crown sale aren't. Why shouldn't ZoS offer valuable incentives for their playerbase? What reason, aside from 'I want it', can you actually offer for ZoS to put a one time price tag on something as useful as the crafting bags? And why on earth would they give it to us for free? It's a pure convenience item, after all.

Personally, I want this game to be successful, to have the backing of the studio and the money to keep making great content. Call me crazy, I guess.

Seriously, though, when did gamers get so entitled? Am I just getting old or what?

^This. The subscription fees go towards ZOS's development team.

Just need to point out that non-sub people don't want it for free, they just want to purchase it from the CS.

OK but non-sub people tried to take the economy way by buying DLC - so this is what they have economy game.

Why can't people get off this and realise that there is no price that can be put on this bag? Loyalty is the price. Period.

Justice31st

Mureel wrote: »

Tarante11a wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

Auricle wrote: »

It is shocking to me that people are complaining about this. Subs are reliable income for ZoS. Random CS splurges when there's a crown sale aren't. Why shouldn't ZoS offer valuable incentives for their playerbase? What reason, aside from 'I want it', can you actually offer for ZoS to put a one time price tag on something as useful as the crafting bags? And why on earth would they give it to us for free? It's a pure convenience item, after all.

Personally, I want this game to be successful, to have the backing of the studio and the money to keep making great content. Call me crazy, I guess.

Seriously, though, when did gamers get so entitled? Am I just getting old or what?

^This. The subscription fees go towards ZOS's development team.

Just need to point out that non-sub people don't want it for free, they just want to purchase it from the CS.

OK but non-sub people tried to take the economy way by buying DLC - so this is what they have economy game.

Why can't people get off this and realise that there is no price that can be put on this bag? Loyalty is the price. Period.

^Well said.

Magenpie

Justice31st wrote: »

Tarante11a wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

Auricle wrote: »

It is shocking to me that people are complaining about this. Subs are reliable income for ZoS. Random CS splurges when there's a crown sale aren't. Why shouldn't ZoS offer valuable incentives for their playerbase? What reason, aside from 'I want it', can you actually offer for ZoS to put a one time price tag on something as useful as the crafting bags? And why on earth would they give it to us for free? It's a pure convenience item, after all.

Personally, I want this game to be successful, to have the backing of the studio and the money to keep making great content. Call me crazy, I guess.

Seriously, though, when did gamers get so entitled? Am I just getting old or what?

^This. The subscription fees go towards ZOS's development team.

Just need to point out that non-sub people don't want it for free, they just want to purchase it from the CS.

As long as the crown store purchase price is equivalent to a year+ subscription membership. ZOS would lose money if it only cost 5k.

So how would you break down the rest of the sub - the value of all the DLC, plus the 1500 Crowns, plus the 10% boosts into that figure. It's not an *entire* year's sub, is it.

Btw, I'm a subscriber too.

Mureel

Tarante11a wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

Tarante11a wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

Auricle wrote: »

It is shocking to me that people are complaining about this. Subs are reliable income for ZoS. Random CS splurges when there's a crown sale aren't. Why shouldn't ZoS offer valuable incentives for their playerbase? What reason, aside from 'I want it', can you actually offer for ZoS to put a one time price tag on something as useful as the crafting bags? And why on earth would they give it to us for free? It's a pure convenience item, after all.

Personally, I want this game to be successful, to have the backing of the studio and the money to keep making great content. Call me crazy, I guess.

Seriously, though, when did gamers get so entitled? Am I just getting old or what?

^This. The subscription fees go towards ZOS's development team.

Just need to point out that non-sub people don't want it for free, they just want to purchase it from the CS.

As long as the crown store purchase price is equivalent to a year+ subscription membership. ZOS would lose money if it only cost 5k.

So how would you break down the rest of the sub - the value of all the DLC, plus the 1500 Crowns, plus the 10% boosts into that figure. It's not an *entire* year's sub, is it.

Btw, I'm a subscriber too.

I really do not think they can put a fair price on this as a One Time Buy thing.

I just cannot see how they would.

It's like free cloud with limited space vs. more space on paid cloud sub.

Anyway i am done posting on this. It's like yelling at a brick wall over really logical and easy to see facts.

(Oh but I might call Dropbox and complain that I should be able to buy a lifetime unlimited account and never pay again. That should work, right?)

Magenpie

By the way, who do you think has taken the bigger risk? Players who bought their DLC outright or people who sub month to month? If the game fell over, those people subbing month to month would just walk away and be sad their game has ended.

Those players who bought all their DLC upfront won't have the right to play the game they've already purchased any further.

You talk about loyalty, but subbers can walk away from the game any time they like having played all the DLC - quite possibly without paying for the equivalent 'full value' that the non-subbers have already paid upfront. They are very *un*predictable, particularly as many mmo players hop from one game to another.

Mureel

Tarante11a wrote: »

By the way, who do you think has taken the bigger risk? Players who bought their DLC outright or people who sub month to month? If the game fell over, those people subbing month to month would just walk away and be sad their game has ended.

Those players who bought all their DLC upfront won't have the right to play the game they've already purchased any further.

You talk about loyalty, but subbers can walk away from the game any time they like having played all the DLC - quite possibly without paying for the equivalent 'full value' that the non-subbers have already paid upfront. They are very *un*predictable, particularly as many mmo players hop from one game to another.

Pshhhht. My sub has bought that DLC several times over before it even came out as well as the imaginary crowns everyone is buying 1000s of every month.

Again, with choices come consequences.

I personally think it is cheap/bargain way to buy DLC and tell me most people didn;t do it to avoid a sub commitment!

Finally, you got what you paid for. There you go.

You do not get, however, what I paid for. :-)

(and I really am done now lol - I am stupid for taking the bait right back into this. have fun and Good Day!)

Magenpie

Mureel wrote: »

Tarante11a wrote: »

By the way, who do you think has taken the bigger risk? Players who bought their DLC outright or people who sub month to month? If the game fell over, those people subbing month to month would just walk away and be sad their game has ended.

Those players who bought all their DLC upfront won't have the right to play the game they've already purchased any further.

You talk about loyalty, but subbers can walk away from the game any time they like having played all the DLC - quite possibly without paying for the equivalent 'full value' that the non-subbers have already paid upfront. They are very *un*predictable, particularly as many mmo players hop from one game to another.

Pshhhht. My sub has bought that DLC several times over as well as the imaginary crowns everyone is buying 1000s of every month.

Again, with choices come consequences.

I personally think it is cheap/bargain way to buy DLC and tell me most people didn;t do it to avoid a sub commitment!

Finally, you got what you paid for. There you go.

You do not get, however, what I paid for. :-)

(and I really am dine lol - I am stupid for taking the bait right back into this. have fun and Good Day!)

MOST of the mmo players I know (I've been playing them for a while) jump ship after about 3 months and move on to the next new game to have a look, or might go back to one they've played before because it has a new expansion or DLC or something. Or most commonly, they get bored because they've played through all the content, so they un-sub and come back to the game when there's a new dlc or expansion.

Also, have you been subbing from launch - I mean that's nice and everything, good for you, but do you really think you've paid loads more than those people who bought all the dlc upfront? I think it might not be that much even if it is more.

Mureel

Tarante11a wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

Tarante11a wrote: »

By the way, who do you think has taken the bigger risk? Players who bought their DLC outright or people who sub month to month? If the game fell over, those people subbing month to month would just walk away and be sad their game has ended.

Those players who bought all their DLC upfront won't have the right to play the game they've already purchased any further.

You talk about loyalty, but subbers can walk away from the game any time they like having played all the DLC - quite possibly without paying for the equivalent 'full value' that the non-subbers have already paid upfront. They are very *un*predictable, particularly as many mmo players hop from one game to another.

Pshhhht. My sub has bought that DLC several times over as well as the imaginary crowns everyone is buying 1000s of every month.

Again, with choices come consequences.

I personally think it is cheap/bargain way to buy DLC and tell me most people didn;t do it to avoid a sub commitment!

Finally, you got what you paid for. There you go.

You do not get, however, what I paid for. :-)

(and I really am dine lol - I am stupid for taking the bait right back into this. have fun and Good Day!)

MOST of the mmo players I know (I've been playing them for a while) jump ship after about 3 months and move on to the next new game to have a look, or might go back to one they've played before because it has a new expansion or DLC or something.

Also, have you been subbing from launch - I mean that's nice and everything, good for you, but do you really think you've paid loads more than those people who bought all the dlc upfront? I think it might not be that much even if it is more.

Yes I have subbed from launch.

So, 5500 crowns costs 23.99 GPB.
3000 is 14.99 GBP
1500 is 8.99 GBP

That is 10k crowns. £47.97.

ALLLLL DLCs together costs 9500.

I have paid £8.99/mo Since April 2014. £233.74

So I've bought ALL the DLCs in game nearly 5x each.

Also I have personally bought extra crowns here and there too when they were on offer half off.

Yes!! About your bolded part, that is the entire point. The bag costs loyalty in the form of a sub. Which many haven't got.

Magenpie

Mureel wrote: »

Tarante11a wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

Tarante11a wrote: »

By the way, who do you think has taken the bigger risk? Players who bought their DLC outright or people who sub month to month? If the game fell over, those people subbing month to month would just walk away and be sad their game has ended.

Those players who bought all their DLC upfront won't have the right to play the game they've already purchased any further.

You talk about loyalty, but subbers can walk away from the game any time they like having played all the DLC - quite possibly without paying for the equivalent 'full value' that the non-subbers have already paid upfront. They are very *un*predictable, particularly as many mmo players hop from one game to another.

Pshhhht. My sub has bought that DLC several times over as well as the imaginary crowns everyone is buying 1000s of every month.

Again, with choices come consequences.

I personally think it is cheap/bargain way to buy DLC and tell me most people didn;t do it to avoid a sub commitment!

Finally, you got what you paid for. There you go.

You do not get, however, what I paid for. :-)

(and I really am dine lol - I am stupid for taking the bait right back into this. have fun and Good Day!)

MOST of the mmo players I know (I've been playing them for a while) jump ship after about 3 months and move on to the next new game to have a look, or might go back to one they've played before because it has a new expansion or DLC or something.

Also, have you been subbing from launch - I mean that's nice and everything, good for you, but do you really think you've paid loads more than those people who bought all the dlc upfront? I think it might not be that much even if it is more.

Yes I have subbed from launch.

So, 5500 crowns costs 23.99 GPB.
3000 is 14.99 GBP
1500 is 8.99 GBP

That is 10k crowns. £47.97.

ALLLLL DLCs together costs 9500.

I have paid £8.99/mo Since April 2014. £233.74

So I've bought ALL the DLCs in game nearly 5x each.

Also I have personally bought extra crowns here and there too when they were on offer half off.

Yes!! About your bolded part, that is the entire point. The bag costs loyalty in the form of a sub. Which many haven't got.

Hooray!! Very good. You are a good customer. And thank you for the sums. I can see you've paid quite a lot more than someone who played for the same length of time but just bought the dlc. Fair enough.

Do you think most players have subbed from launch? Sorry, I sound like I'm moving the goalposts now, and I suppose I am a bit with regard to my previous question.

My point is, you can offer all the 'loyalty' rewards you like, if people stop playing the game, they un-sub. Lots of players do dip in and out of their pool of fave mmos (see the IGN article today for e.g.) so obviously those loyalty rewards don't always really mean much.

My view is that the bag makes general game much play nicer. It's not a cosmetic thing or an extra area or whatever, it affects the whole game. I think everyone should have an opportunity to obtain them pay for them somehow, whether they subscribe or not. Happy to admit that's just an opinion.

However, I have a feeling those people suggesting the bags are a way of promoting player loyalty aren't seeing a longer term picture. It might make people take up more subs *now* - and fair enough for ZOS to make hay etc - but I don't think it will have much effect on overall player loyalty over a longer period.

Can I ask, why do you care how or why other people get the bags, if they are still going to pay for them, if you are still going to play the game no matter if they do and if it makes more players happy with the game?

[btw I absolutely acknowledge that anything I've said about player behaviour is me guessing and extrapolating from how my friends behave. No claims about facts and figures here.]

Mureel

Tarante11a wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

Tarante11a wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

Tarante11a wrote: »

By the way, who do you think has taken the bigger risk? Players who bought their DLC outright or people who sub month to month? If the game fell over, those people subbing month to month would just walk away and be sad their game has ended.

Those players who bought all their DLC upfront won't have the right to play the game they've already purchased any further.

You talk about loyalty, but subbers can walk away from the game any time they like having played all the DLC - quite possibly without paying for the equivalent 'full value' that the non-subbers have already paid upfront. They are very *un*predictable, particularly as many mmo players hop from one game to another.

Pshhhht. My sub has bought that DLC several times over as well as the imaginary crowns everyone is buying 1000s of every month.

Again, with choices come consequences.

I personally think it is cheap/bargain way to buy DLC and tell me most people didn;t do it to avoid a sub commitment!

Finally, you got what you paid for. There you go.

You do not get, however, what I paid for. :-)

(and I really am dine lol - I am stupid for taking the bait right back into this. have fun and Good Day!)

MOST of the mmo players I know (I've been playing them for a while) jump ship after about 3 months and move on to the next new game to have a look, or might go back to one they've played before because it has a new expansion or DLC or something.

Also, have you been subbing from launch - I mean that's nice and everything, good for you, but do you really think you've paid loads more than those people who bought all the dlc upfront? I think it might not be that much even if it is more.

Yes I have subbed from launch.

So, 5500 crowns costs 23.99 GPB.
3000 is 14.99 GBP
1500 is 8.99 GBP

That is 10k crowns. £47.97.

ALLLLL DLCs together costs 9500.

I have paid £8.99/mo Since April 2014. £233.74

So I've bought ALL the DLCs in game nearly 5x each.

Also I have personally bought extra crowns here and there too when they were on offer half off.

Yes!! About your bolded part, that is the entire point. The bag costs loyalty in the form of a sub. Which many haven't got.

Hooray!! Very good. You are a good customer.

My point is, you can offer all the 'loyalty' rewards you like, if people stop playing the game, they un-sub. Lots of players do dip in and out of their pool of fave mmos (see the IGN article today for e.g.) so obviously those loyalty rewards don't always really mean much.

As I've said before, it's that the bags make general gameplay nicer. I think everyone should have an opportunity to obtain them pay for them somehow, whether they subscribe or not.

I have a feeling that those people suggesting the bags are a way of promoting player loyalty aren't seeing a longer term picture. It might make people take up more subs *now* - and fair enough for ZOS to make hay etc - but I don't think it will have much effect on overall player loyalty over a longer period.

Can I ask, why do you care how or why other people get the bags, if they are still going to pay for them, if you are still going to play the game no matter if they do and if it makes more players happy with the game?

Oh forgot to say: YES I am in 5x very busy guilds and MOST PEOPLE in all those and majority of my full friends list, are Subscribers.

I care about the whole game having gone B2P and think it was the worst thing ever and I think it brought a lot of people who are none too nice to the game (on the PC side, I get the difference to the console side) or who come and go which offers the game less stability.

I think people shouldn't get what they don't earn and I feel like there is too much entitlement abounding as it is.

I think that ZOS said crafting bags are for subscribers so that's how they should be and people should just accept it instead of always wanting their own way all the time. If you don't keep paying unlimited why should you receive unlimited.

I've said this many times, but no one has answered me as to why they find that fair.

I also truly think there is NO WAY to put a fair price on this that people could/would actually pay and that would not infuriate the part of the player base it is within their financial interest to keep.

People paid for the DLC and that is what they got.

I pay for a sub, this is what I got.

Why can't people just see it like different packages for different things?

That's what it is, after all.

Your idea is akin to buying one time, an ever expanding storage space which never ends.

It is just not logical to have it anything other than sub based.

jcasini222ub17_ESO

A bit curious but can anyone explain the current model would generate more revenue than say this example below:

Example: crafting bags stay a sub perk but 'compartments' are sold on the crown store for 15.99USD each. One for metalworking, one of woodworking, etc. For, I think, a total of 5 or 6 compartments.

This, to me, is how you offer some projection stability but also tap into the full milk potential of the entire playerbase. My gut also tells me this is what will be done in the long run but currently cant because of the feels expressed by subbers in this thread. Not judging just trying to game out their thinking. Make no mistake, they are leaving money on the table having this sub only.

Mureel

jcasini222ub17_ESO wrote: »

A bit curious but can anyone explain the current model would generate more revenue than say this example below:

Example: crafting bags stay a sub perk but 'compartments' are sold on the crown store for 15.99USD each. One for metalworking, one of woodworking, etc. For, I think, a total of 5 or 6 compartments.

This, to me, is how you offer some projection stability but also tap into the full milk potential of the entire playerbase. My gut also tells me this is what will be done in the long run but currently cant because of the feels expressed by subbers in this thread. Not judging just trying to game out their thinking. Make no mistake, they are leaving money on the table having this sub only.

Way way way way too cheap.

Magenpie

Mureel wrote: »

It is just not logical to have it anything other than sub based.

Why? That's a completely arbitrary divide. Other mmos offer their different player pay models the same features - either all-in with sub or bought piece-meal through a store. SWTOR seems to be doing ok with that method, for example.

RandalMarrs

Because it devalues the subscription to offer it as a one time purchase, no matter if it's a limited bag. It's easy to create justification for why people think they deserve it but it has been put in place as an incentive to sub, there would be no incentive if there was another option. It is a convenience item and nothing else.

jcasini222ub17_ESO

Really? That example model just flexed out a 15.99 one time purchase to 80-95 for full bag. Note if I ever sub again it'll be for a month stuff the bag to its gills. Then just drop sub afterwards.

So yea care to expound a bit on what makes it too cheap?

Mureel

Tarante11a wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

It is just not logical to have it anything other than sub based.

Why? That's a completely arbitrary divide. Other mmos offer their different player pay models the same features - either all-in with sub or bought piece-meal through a store. SWTOR seems to be doing ok with that method, for example.

Why can you not see it like it is? Ever increasing DISK SPACE.

Where on Earth in any game or anywhere would you be able to buy it ONCE and it expands forever?

This is not a ONE THING like a banker or a dlc or a costume.

That is the whole point.

ZOS wants you to sub. Sub and get the bag then unsub. Then resub to add more things or whatever.

(and all this would be no issue if they never removed subs lol)

Mureel

RandalMarrs wrote: »

Because it devalues the subscription to offer it as a one time purchase, no matter if it's a limited bag. It's easy to create justification for why people think they deserve it but it has been put in place as an incentive to sub, there would be no incentive if there was another option. It is a convenience item and nothing else.

This.

Volkodav

Tarante11a wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

Tarante11a wrote: »

@Articulemort - I sub and I completely agree with you.

The crafting bag changes fundamental gameplay to a very large degree. The Quality of Life it affords is massive. It's certainly made a huge difference to how I play the game.

People who bought their DLC outright were encouraged to do so as an alternative to subbing and no indication was given that this was the 'wrong' or 'least favourable' way of giving ZOS money. It was just a different way. You were just as loyal a customer as those who subbed.

ZOS have suddenly changed the goalposts and you can't change how you spent your money retrospectively, even if you wanted to.

I absolutely support your point and can understand why you're annoyed about it. At the very least, the bag should be available for you to buy in the CS.

I really hope ZOS sorts it out for you and other players in your situation.

@Lunarhound - just read your post - wish I'd just quoted you now. Very eloquently put. And yes, exactly.

Wow!
How did it improve your life and change your gameplay?
The only thing it did for me was to free up some space in both my bank and inventory.I still have the same skillsets,same CPs,same gear,etc.Nothing else changed in my game.

Quality of Life in game - obviously - it's a relatively well-known phrase in terms of mmo gaming? It meant I didn't spend the first hour and a half of game play moving mats around from alt to bank to alt etc while doing the crafting dailies. I recently returned to the game so I hadn't made much gold to increase bag/bank space.

Think you're looking quite hard for things pick holes in and criticise, but you're not being terribly incisive. I've made a reasonable comment, one others have made too. Have a look at the 'Thank you for the bags' thread, in the General Forum somewhere.

Anyway, nice to see you're enjoying yourself.

I wasnt nit picking,but genuinely dont get the quality of life in a game.I can understand that those bags are convenient,but they dont change how people play their game.
I am sorry if my questions offend you.And my point was that if people played the game just fine without the bags,and had a good "quality of life"ingame,then why is it any different all of a sudden now that the bags are here.
If they never came into being,there would be no issue about the life quality then.
People just want to have something to gripe about on the forums,and sometimes what they are going on about is kinda silly.Sometimes I find their comments as silly as you find mine to be.
(safety Smiley: )

Magenpie

Volkodav wrote: »

Tarante11a wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

Tarante11a wrote: »

@Articulemort - I sub and I completely agree with you.

The crafting bag changes fundamental gameplay to a very large degree. The Quality of Life it affords is massive. It's certainly made a huge difference to how I play the game.

People who bought their DLC outright were encouraged to do so as an alternative to subbing and no indication was given that this was the 'wrong' or 'least favourable' way of giving ZOS money. It was just a different way. You were just as loyal a customer as those who subbed.

ZOS have suddenly changed the goalposts and you can't change how you spent your money retrospectively, even if you wanted to.

I absolutely support your point and can understand why you're annoyed about it. At the very least, the bag should be available for you to buy in the CS.

I really hope ZOS sorts it out for you and other players in your situation.

@Lunarhound - just read your post - wish I'd just quoted you now. Very eloquently put. And yes, exactly.

Wow!
How did it improve your life and change your gameplay?
The only thing it did for me was to free up some space in both my bank and inventory.I still have the same skillsets,same CPs,same gear,etc.Nothing else changed in my game.

Quality of Life in game - obviously - it's a relatively well-known phrase in terms of mmo gaming? It meant I didn't spend the first hour and a half of game play moving mats around from alt to bank to alt etc while doing the crafting dailies. I recently returned to the game so I hadn't made much gold to increase bag/bank space.

Think you're looking quite hard for things pick holes in and criticise, but you're not being terribly incisive. I've made a reasonable comment, one others have made too. Have a look at the 'Thank you for the bags' thread, in the General Forum somewhere.

Anyway, nice to see you're enjoying yourself.

I wasnt nit picking,but genuinely dont get the quality of life in a game.I can understand that those bags are convenient,but they dont change how people play their game.
I am sorry if my questions offend you.And my point was that if people played the game just fine without the bags,and had a good "quality of life"ingame,then why is it any different all of a sudden now that the bags are here.
If they never came into being,there would be no issue about the life quality then.
People just want to have something to gripe about on the forums,and sometimes what they are going on about is kinda silly.Sometimes I find their comments as silly as you find mine to be.
(safety Smiley: )

I'm afraid you're just going to have to believe me (and maybe lots of those other people) when I say that it made the game a more pleasant experience - the inventory thing was a drag and that issue was taken away.

I'm not sure why you find it so difficult to believe. Inventory space (or lack of) is one of the top complaints players have about lots of mmos. Do some searches, have a look.

Just because *you* don't think it's an issue - although it's obviously fairly important to you or why would you be so keen for it to be an exclusive for subbing players, and you've been quite vocal about the subject - doesn't mean it's not important to other people.

And really, people don't just 'want to have something to gripe about on the forums' - well most people don't, they want to play their game. Projecting your own behaviour, perhaps?

Volkodav

Tarante11a wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

Tarante11a wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

Tarante11a wrote: »

@Articulemort - I sub and I completely agree with you.

The crafting bag changes fundamental gameplay to a very large degree. The Quality of Life it affords is massive. It's certainly made a huge difference to how I play the game.

People who bought their DLC outright were encouraged to do so as an alternative to subbing and no indication was given that this was the 'wrong' or 'least favourable' way of giving ZOS money. It was just a different way. You were just as loyal a customer as those who subbed.

ZOS have suddenly changed the goalposts and you can't change how you spent your money retrospectively, even if you wanted to.

I absolutely support your point and can understand why you're annoyed about it. At the very least, the bag should be available for you to buy in the CS.

I really hope ZOS sorts it out for you and other players in your situation.

@Lunarhound - just read your post - wish I'd just quoted you now. Very eloquently put. And yes, exactly.

Wow!
How did it improve your life and change your gameplay?
The only thing it did for me was to free up some space in both my bank and inventory.I still have the same skillsets,same CPs,same gear,etc.Nothing else changed in my game.

Quality of Life in game - obviously - it's a relatively well-known phrase in terms of mmo gaming? It meant I didn't spend the first hour and a half of game play moving mats around from alt to bank to alt etc while doing the crafting dailies. I recently returned to the game so I hadn't made much gold to increase bag/bank space.

Think you're looking quite hard for things pick holes in and criticise, but you're not being terribly incisive. I've made a reasonable comment, one others have made too. Have a look at the 'Thank you for the bags' thread, in the General Forum somewhere.

Anyway, nice to see you're enjoying yourself.

I wasnt nit picking,but genuinely dont get the quality of life in a game.I can understand that those bags are convenient,but they dont change how people play their game.
I am sorry if my questions offend you.And my point was that if people played the game just fine without the bags,and had a good "quality of life"ingame,then why is it any different all of a sudden now that the bags are here.
If they never came into being,there would be no issue about the life quality then.
People just want to have something to gripe about on the forums,and sometimes what they are going on about is kinda silly.Sometimes I find their comments as silly as you find mine to be.
(safety Smiley: )

I'm afraid you're just going to have to believe me (and maybe lots of those other people) when I say that it made the game a more pleasant experience - the inventory thing was a drag and that issue was taken away.

I'm not sure why you find it so difficult to believe. Inventory space (or lack of) is one of the top complaints players have about lots of mmos. Do some searches, have a look.

Just because *you* don't think it's an issue - although it's obviously fairly important to you or why would you be so keen for it to be an exclusive for subbing players, and you've been quite vocal about the subject - doesn't mean it's not important to other people.

And really, people don't just 'want to have something to gripe about on the forums' - well most people don't, they want to play their game. Projecting your own behaviour, perhaps?

It is no more important to me than it is you.The forums are places to discuss things.I am not being rude,or angry,or anything like that.I am just interested in why you think that the bags can make or break gameplay for those many people you speak for.Yes,inventory space is an issue,but is solved by the crown store.
There are plenty of people talking back and forth about this.I'm no different.I was merely delving into the idea of "quality of life"and how it could possibly be so trivialized as being solved by an inventory bag.
If you have been reading my comments about it,as you indicated,you might see that I have always been for everyone being able to gain access to it.
I just get interested when someone makes such a grand statement of importance over such a small thing.

Oh,did it make you feel superior to add that little dig about my own behavior?

Kinda cute.

Magenpie

[quote="Volkodav;3078490"

Oh,did it make you feel superior to add that little dig about my own behavior?

Kinda cute.
[/quote]

Says the person who's spent most of this thread undermining, mocking and dismissing other players opinions. Again my apologies, that's far too strong. But I do think that just dismissing other people's real concerns as 'silly' is a bit rude and patronizing.

However, I'm genuinely sorry if I've misunderstood your standpoint re the bags. It's not the impression I had.

But a further apology is required from me for getting cross at you. I've been fairly amazed and depressed by a lot of what's been said back and forth about this topic. I over-reacted to your comment and it was misplaced. My bad.

Vangy

@Tarante11a

Sure im all about player contentment. But imma say it like it is. If craft bags come out for anything under 10k crowns, id immediately cancel my sub and just pay via crowns for it.... Im pretty sure a good number of subbers would do exactly that.... Its not because im pissed or anything. Just that logically speaking for me, a sub is tons more expensive than me stocking up on crowns during their sales and then spending them when I need to. I pay ard 240 SGD a year for sub. I'd pay around 60-70% less per year if I just get crowns via sales packs. So as far as contentment goes, Id be far more satisfied to get everything a sub has but at 70% less cost....The 10% bonus to exp etc is worthless to me. (my opinion). Getting DLCs for "free" isnt really free. Im just paying a crap ton more than non-subs to get that same content they pay 70% less for. Plus, they get to choose what DLCS they want to pay for. I have no say in the matter cos I dont even OWN the DLCS that come out. Like I havent even walked into to DB areas. Cos the whole idea of killing innocents irks me. Never liked the dark brotherhood. But I still pay that 20 SGD a month.....for 1500 crowns.... Crowns I can get for less than 50% of the price im paying for via sub....That's just how I see it.

Emma_Overload

Farorin wrote: »

Why shouldn't they be behind a pay wall? ZOS has to make money some how, they have to put SOMETHING behind a pay wall, they needed something to incentivize subbing. Why not this?

You can play the game fine without the crafting bag, I mean, we were all doing it before it was released, so it is not an issue of a pay to win situation, so what's the problem?

Are people going to start complaining about having to pay for content like DLCs next? I mean I got the imperial addition, I pre-ordered, I bought crowns, why should I have to pay for my DLCs too??
See? That's just silly.

We're not complaining about a "pay wall", we're complaining about a sub wall. Many of us would love to pay for the crafting bag, if it was a DLC.

NolaArch

For the love of all that is holy, please stop complaining about this.

Here is what I told someone in yet another thread about this exact same thing:

You can purchase a one month sub, access the bag, and spend that month building up a really nice stock of materials. You will keep your crafting bag, but will not be able to add to it. The materials you collect during your month of subscription will remain in your bag, and out of your inventory. When you find yourself in a position to sub for a month in the future, pad your existing --possibly dwindling-- stock.

It isn't 100% ideal, but it is a solution that doesn't cost you every month.

Buy it if you want it, don't if you don't. But please, for the love of Pete, stop with it already.